View Full Version : looking at a new holland.
08-21-2007, 08:16 AM
I need some help.
i am good friends with out local stone/mulch/paver distributer. We do well over $100K/ year with the guy....
he has offered to sell me his old new holland lx885 for $5K.....
he swears it runs perfect, and has only 650 hrs on the engine. it has a substantial hydrolic leak from the front wheel seal ( I a am assuming it also needs bearings)...
first, will this lift a pallet of pavers, next, do you guys think it is a good deal?
08-21-2007, 10:00 AM
I think the axcels are greased by a grease fitting under the bottom. You can replace axcel housing and all complete fairly reasonable. Price is great and I beleive it should handle pavers. Check the steering. Steering can get pretty sloppy, but can be repaired or maybe just adjusted.
08-21-2007, 10:26 AM
jd is correct. there are grease fittings for the axles but most people don't know they are their so they get missed.
new hollands are reliable machines. new hollands are by far the most popular machines in this area and i've seen many with over 6000 hrs on them being used every day without many problems but it depends on how well they're cared for.
as for lifting a pallet of pavers, i think it should be ok.
NH is the only skid steer that has grease fitting for the axcels(sp) right. Never seen any on any other skid.:confused:
08-21-2007, 11:18 AM
The LX885 is a well respected machine and the price is very good. Keep in mind that older LX series machines were prone to breaking the loader arms, especially in the rear, where the link rod meets the lower pin and bushing, in line with the rear grill. (look for a welded loader arm and or a welded link rod where it pins to the arm) If it has been repaired then your lifting of the pallet of bricks could be in question. I have seen them repaired and done well enough that they didn't break again but many times they re-crack and just need to be replaced to take the twisting and forces exerted by the vertical lift design. The newer machines look the same but the loader arms have some design changes that are stronger. I also look for leaking splitter boxes on the LX 885 and the LX865 (as well as the JD 8875), if the seal goes out in one of the pumps then it overfills the splitter box and pours oil out of the vent. Check for a dipstick under the seat, smack dab in the center between the pumps where they mount to the splitter box. When I inspect a LX885 or LX865 a quick check is to look under the machine and if the lower pans are wet with oil then go another step and raise the seat to check the dipstick on the splitter box. It could be just a leaky hose, more often than not the splitter box is over full and it can be a very big leak that follows you everywhere you take the machine. The repair is to remove both pumps and reseal both of them because you really can't tell which one is leaking and if you are already there then it makes sense to do both. I have couple of articles on my website about how I inspect skid steer loaders. You still have a good price, it should bring that in an auction unless it is cosmetically rough.
08-21-2007, 01:27 PM
hell of a machine, at a stupidly cheap price.
if you don't want it, let me know and i'll drive out and get it.
08-21-2007, 05:11 PM
New Holland makes very good machines. They use to be a bunch of them around here until the local Case IH dealership quit selling New Holland equipment.
08-22-2007, 08:18 PM
well it seems that the deal has changed.
turns out that the price is $6K and it is a l785, which is a much older machine. the meter shows 3800 hrs, but there is a lot of wiring hanging out of the "console" that is not connected and looks as if it has been that way for a while.
I am going to give the guy a chance to to charge the battery ( machine has not been run in over a year) ans see how it runs. It does come with a 4-N-1 bucket and a set of forks.... also we can get the trailer for it for $500.00....
this guy is a friend of ours, and i don't think we would intentionally stick us. I am worried that the machine will turn into a money pit and strain our relationship.
08-22-2007, 08:52 PM
L785 New Hollands were great machines, some still are, the newest with the Ford/New Holland diesel are the most desired. If you are dealing with a 1990's machine and it has low hours it could still be a very usefull machine. If you do go with it remember that it could possibly have the New Holland style of quick attach, not the Bob-tach that is commonplace today and convient for universal attachments or rental attachments. It can been converted to the Bob-tach if it isn't already. Too bad it wasn't the LX885, that would have been a sweet deal for you.
RockSet N' Grade
08-22-2007, 09:09 PM
Alot of ways to look at this deal. If you need the machine, buy it......fix it up and let it go at that........I would probably buy it right now and get the trailer also and say "thanks", especially if the guy continues to give me 100k in work a year......I spent more this year on yellow book, website, newspaper, flyers, lunches, and yada-yada and I can't see where I got a thank you or a kiss or someone willing to continue to throw me a large slab of bacon ( 100k). Strain your relationship?..........think about the big picture and go grab that bad boy.....
08-22-2007, 10:01 PM
rocksetn'grade... WE spend about $100K/year with this guy.......
we'll see how it goes tomorrow and saturday
thank you all for the responses and advise.
08-24-2007, 12:52 AM
Rockset, you can give me $100k a year too and I'll throw a few old skids your way.
08-26-2007, 08:54 PM
that deal fell through and i just broke down and just bought a 02 bobcat t200 with pilot controls and heat and ac.....1900 hrs... $17,600.00
08-26-2007, 09:23 PM
You could have gotten some pointers about that machine as well. I hope it works out well for you, quite a different machine and price from the LX885 or the L785 at $5K! That is not a bad price for a T200 W/ cab A/C, unless it needs tracks.
08-29-2007, 08:39 PM
the tracks are pretty worn.
all the other t200's i have seen are selling for $23-$27K, most with many more hours...
the machine is not in bad shape overall. it has new sprockets, and tracks are at about 30% (one is worse than the other.
it has high flow, and pilot controls. there is some play in the loader arm bushings, but not excessive.
There are no leaks, and it runs great.
do you have any pointers on the machine...
also what is your site? I have been there before, but did not bookmark.
I think the T200 had the Duetz motor in it. The market must be pretty strong for those machines in your area to bring that kind of money. I would have expect them to bring much less.
08-30-2007, 07:24 AM
i have been looking for a rack machine for a while now as i do most of my work in established yards, or pure beach sand ( i am in the outer banks of NC). so a MTL is a must. all the t200 i have seen have clost to 3K hours and are going for $21-27K. I have seen a few go for $14-19K but that was rare, and they had 4K hours...
08-30-2007, 10:13 AM
YardPro, The Bobcat T200 replaces the 864, Bobcats first track machine that I know of. The 864 looks like a re engineered Bobcat 863 rubber tire skid steer loader. All three of those machines are powered by the Deutz 4 cylinder oil cooled turbo diesel. The Deutz engine has since been dropped by Bobcat in favor of the Kubota. The Deutz is one reason I try to advise people away from the 800 series (and T200) Bobcats. Let me also say to the credit of the machines that I have seen them with as much as 6500 hours and running strong. (I doubt that it was the original engine)
The Deutz uses a rubber timing belt much like many gasoline car engines with overhead cams. (the Deutz is not overhead cam but still uses a rubber belt instead of a chain or gears), People don't generally run their cars in the environment that the Bobcat runs in so the engines don't need as frequent service. The timing belt breaks, the pistons hit the valves, (interference engine). lucky result is bent push rods, common result is destroyed valves, cylinder head, pistons and rods. I have seen more Deutz engines with a hole in the block than most engines. My understanding is that they are expensive to overhaul so people just replace them. If you have a Deutz find out when the timing belt was replaced and find out when it should be done and do it. There is no warning, the belt snaps and the machine is dead. I avoid them.
A similar fate was with the Peugot Diesel, used by Bobcat in the 751, also a timing belt engine. Also dropped in favor of the Kubota.
The 864 and T200 both use the single central tilt cylinder, a design that Bobcat has shelved on the larger machines. The first place that I look for repaired or cracked loader arms is where the tilt cylinder mounts to the loader arms and where the ram end of the cylinder mounts to the quick attach plate. If they have been plated or welded at all, I avoid them as they are prone to break again. I have purchased several Bobcats that were traded in with that cylinder dangling from the hydraulic lines because it had been broken off the machine. I also look for welds where the center cross section of the loader mounts to the sides of the loader arms, prone to cracks. Welds on the frame where the center section mounts to the side frames above your feet are commonly cracked.
Watch out for steering linkage play to cause creeping, not usually associated with the pilot controls. The pilot controls have their own problems. I think Bobcat calls them advanced hand controls and if the pressures vari from the presets the machine shuts off with a red light flashing on the dash, AHC. Stuck again, the engine will run but you can't operate the loader. Like most modern machines a computer code will determine the pressure culprit and the dealer will replace the parts and try again.
Lastly, I am not too sure which Bobcat track machine is loading up all the pallets of final drives and drive motors in Bobcat dealer yards but I have heard about plenty of drive issues with the track machines. I like to rummage around the dealer service lot just to see the metal pile, gives me a lot of insight of what to look for when I appraise machines. It is very hard to hear a problem with a final drive because of the running noise. I Look for leaks around the drive motor and sprocket and a weak drive will quit pulling under load.
This all looks pretty drastic, I would say that all of the track machine builders have their issues and the learning process has been great over the past couple of years with the booming sales of the track machines. You could have a great machine that will have none of the issues that I mention. I still see lots of T200's working hard all day long on jobsites. Not so many 864's running around any more at least not around here.
08-30-2007, 11:44 AM
I'm fairly familiar with Duetz engines, as we had a ditchwitch with one in them.
Change the timing belt at 3,000 hours. You'll need some specialized tools, but you can get them from any shop that is certified to work on Duetz engines.
08-30-2007, 08:47 PM
thanks for all the input.
luckily our machine has none of the above problems. it was used for grading and laying sod for all but 250 hrs.
I will keep my fingers crossed.
there are absolutely no leaks, welds, etc that would indicate any problems... all fluids look good, and the sprockets are new.
08-31-2007, 09:50 AM
I never could figure out why someone would use a belt for timing when a gear or even a chain is more reliable. I know Deutz had very good motors in there tractors and Gleaner combines that where Air Cooled. I hated to see them stop using the Deutz air cooled engines. These track machines of any brand just about for years was like rolling the dice. Seems like everyone is just now starting to get the hang of them. I can easily see why Bobcat switched from Deutz in favor of Kubota. They would have never got to first base with me of having a Deutz engine if the timing was not gear driven.
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