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srvfan
08-22-2007, 03:24 PM
I have a customer who wants lighting on her walkway. She has junk installed right now that will be removed. She does not want spread lights placed in her grass again(good thing). She does not have any large trees to place down lights in. I'm looking for some suggestions.

NightScenes
08-22-2007, 04:43 PM
I would suggest putting in a few small flower beds along the walkway, on either side. It might require about 3 beds on one side and 2 on the other. You could then place spread lights in the beds to not only light the walkway, but the beds as well. Use a good fixture with a wide photometric to cover more area with fewer fixtures. Remember, you don't have to have light on every bit of the path. It is perfectly fine to have a small area of darkness between these pools of light. I would suggest the Kichler 15443 or similar fixture. This will give a pool of light and it also shoots out little shards of light that will fill in some of the dark spots a little.

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

Good luck,

JoeyD
08-22-2007, 05:03 PM
Pauls suggestion is ideal however if re-planting isnt in option then you will be limited to how well you place your pathlights. Unless I am missing something int he picture it appears that moonlighting is out of the question so when placing your pathlights a nice look to avoid the "runway" look would be to stagger your lights from one side to another. Spacing will depend on the fixture you are using and it's photo metrics. Obviously a larger shrouded light will give you more spread, a taller pathlight will have the same effect.

klkanders
08-22-2007, 06:13 PM
I am with Paul and Joey on this one and I will take it a step further bein that creating nice bed lines is "what I do". More pics would have helped but ....I see a pine tree I believe off walk in upper right. A bed could curve around it as well to eliminmate mowing between (then maybe uplight the pine too). Same goes for the retaining wall and tree or trees in bottom left of picture. Once these 2 areas are done the rest will become more obvious. Might be nice to keep an area open somewhere on both sides to get a mower across. All this is doesnt matter tho if customer isnt open for some needed landscaping also.
Lastly take an old golf club umm maybe a wedge or driver and hold a tourney to see who can hit the old path lights the furthest. I am in if you or Paul buys me a ticket down there!

Pro-Scapes
08-22-2007, 07:00 PM
we did one similar to this and we placed small beds in. Half circles (around 2.5 ft or so) and installed seasonal color in them.

Really avoid the lights in the turf. Ideally 2 beds would be run up the sides of the walkway to help detract from the presence of the lighting during the day time. Since its not a real wide walkway you could use a lower profile fixture and tuck it in these beds. Probably staggered around 8-10 ft apart depending on the photo metrics of the light. Since its straight you could probably go even further apart.

I think your only other option would be a recessed pathlight like the Hunzas or SPJ's

I am also surprised no one suggested building a nice railing along here and using deck lights which is also an option if she doesnt want to maintain flower beds.

klkanders
08-22-2007, 07:34 PM
This looks like a dock walkway? Paul how about some dock lights? :)

RICHLONGHORN
08-22-2007, 08:05 PM
Check out Vista fixture GW-5263. It could be your solution. It is basically a well light that has a half moon louver that protrudes 1 3/4" above grade. I have seen them used in applications like your's & they do a nice job. They direct the light source onto the pathway with no glare issues for those walking the path. They accept either a 10 watt or 20 watt T3 lamp.

Chris J
08-22-2007, 08:09 PM
Let's not forget Champion's 4w Deck/Paver light! For sure, this will be another perfect situation where his fixtures would work perfectly. I'm sure you'll see more pic's of this beautiful creation as soon as he reads this post!

srvfan
08-22-2007, 11:06 PM
I think the Vista fixture GW-5263 is what I'm looking for. She does not want beds along the path. I would stagger these down the path every 12 feet or so, she is afraid of stepping on a snake. You guys let me know what you think, I always welcome suggestions from people with more experience than myself. I looked at similar fixtures made for vertical mount but they were not recommended for horizontal surface. I did not know this fixture was available.

Thanks

NightScenes
08-23-2007, 12:31 AM
This is a good fixture for this purpose and I have used them on a few occasions. One problem, they don't hold up well with lawn maintenance crews. As long as your client knows that they can get pretty torn up by a lawn mower, it will be fine. Get a few extras to keep in stock for replacements.

David Gretzmier
08-23-2007, 12:54 AM
absolutly with paul on this one. the lawnmower person will seek and destroy these. I'd expect to replace 25% per year. she needs to know this up front. you cannot put lights in turf and expect no damage. If no beds, perhaps a brick edge with small round deck bullets in the bricks every 4-6 ft? at least the mower guys will sort of respect a hard surface.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-23-2007, 08:55 AM
Personally I would be a little more creative. It's obviously a lake or river setting. I would get huge peices of driftwood, creative pieces with nice root structures, clean them up real good, spray it for bugs real good and advice the resident to inspect them regularly and recessed a socket with sprinkler shield into it, maybe a complete fixture. The path doesnt seem that long so a few may do it...there are no step correct...something cool...maybe big bolders instead to conceal the fixture instead of driftwood...the problem with a planting bed is it takes maintenance...there are no beds because the home owner wants to be boating or swimming not weeding and mulching...get creative...

klkanders
08-23-2007, 12:57 PM
.....spray it for bugs real good and advise the resident to inspect regularly?

Doug...isnt that just like maintenance? :) Just ribbin ya. In my reply I mentioned beds but didnt go into detail what would be in them. What about rock instead of mulch, few boulders here and there as suggested and a few low maintenance perenials? Just dont put straight planting beds on both sides to make it look even more like a railroad track.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-23-2007, 01:06 PM
maybe a bed with pampas/maiden grass a boulder or two and a path light...I know I'd start a bunch of crap if I metioned the 15438ob, the marine light, from kichler...but it comes in OB which would match the trex deck walk way and would look real good...I know I know the globe glows and is a hot spot but she has one at the end of the dock already...A big globe that it...

NightScenes
08-23-2007, 01:11 PM
Great ideas Doug.

ccfree
08-23-2007, 09:43 PM
How about Haco fixture DWL1? Very nice rugged fixture for grass areas shining on decks or walkways. You can get in either cast bronze or compostie. Look it up on hadcolighting.com.

David Gretzmier
08-23-2007, 11:03 PM
It kills me that the small island beds, boulders and especially the driftwood are awesome ideas, and yet they have pagodas now that look bad and they are not willing to do something that would look great and give an excellent lighting effect. why? why do people put up with the yuck, then tie our hands and expect the moon?

Chris J
08-23-2007, 11:21 PM
If they are being this difficult about creating beds or other structures, why not just use surface mounts and mount short stem path lights directly to the edge of the walkway in a staggered fashion. Yes, you will lose some traffic area, but you could mount them close enough to the sides to minimize the hindrance while keeping them out of the grass to avoid the yard equipment.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-24-2007, 02:44 AM
Instead of the Vista 5263... if you want something that will last forever and is guaranteed forever.... and will cast a nicer light (imo) then look to the Nightscaping Vermeer with eyebrow. Cast Brass, bullet proof and totally professional.

Kicking your choice of fixtures up a notch or two is very good for the reputation and the bottom line.

Have a great day.

srvfan
08-24-2007, 05:38 PM
I actually have settled on the Nightscaping Vermeer with eyebrow. It will be a simple installation and it will make her happy.

Chris J
08-24-2007, 07:00 PM
I went to the Nightscaping website to look at this Vermeer fixture. Forgive me for asking, but why would you use an up-light to down-light or cross-light a pathway? Unless I'm looking at the wrong picture, this light shoots straight up into the sky? And what about the light pollution that some talk about so much? Is this not a bit contrary to that notion? I'm confused....Somebody please straighten me out if I missed something here.

srvfan
08-24-2007, 07:13 PM
Well I was actually looking at the Vermeer for another application to be installed near a pool in concrete uplighting a colum. It comes with a concrete sleeve....I got it confused with the fixture I'm looking at for the path. The light for the path will be the Integraliter. Here is the information from the website. Let me know what you guys think.

Use the Nightscaping® Integraliter as a ground mounted pathlight, a wall sconce with a 360 degree spread, or on handrails and ledges that require specific safety lighting. The compact design and controlled light source make this a very unobtrusive, dark sky friendly fixture you can use for multiple landscape, architectural, deck and dock lighting applications. The Integraliter is also a perfect low-profile light source for your projects that feature decks and docks. The Integraliter's compact design makes this a very unobtrusive yet highly functional fixture you can use for multiple landscape, architectural, deck and dock lighting applications.

ar-t
08-24-2007, 07:13 PM
srvfan, you have my sympathy. I have that sneaky suspicion that your customer will not go for a decent lighting plan. Especially, as it will involve some extra landscaping to get the lights out of the turf, as many have properly suggested. (These are also the first types who complain when the mowing crew cuts the wires with the edger.) I run across this mentality all the time. They seem to be fixated on the runway effect......using the most horrible fixture ever invented: the pagoda.

Not always a lost cause, but I avoid those jobs. Life is too short.

Good luck, bub.

Landscape Illuminating
08-24-2007, 07:14 PM
Perhaps they're talking about the vermeer with the diffuser rather than the eyebrow?

-LI

JackTorsed
08-24-2007, 09:31 PM
Is the owner of Nightscaping still alive?

Chris J
08-24-2007, 11:33 PM
Is the owner of Nightscaping still alive?

Bill Locklin? Yep, alive and kicking. I believe he just finished another book.

JackTorsed
08-24-2007, 11:36 PM
Bill Locklin? Yep, alive and kicking. I believe he just finished another book.

what are the name of the books and where can I get them? thanks.

Chris J
08-24-2007, 11:38 PM
I don't know that, but you could probably google it and find out. Better yet, give it a little while and somebody else will probably know the answer.

Chris J
08-24-2007, 11:40 PM
If you want to know a good reference for lighting books, google Tom Williams and Books. He has got a recommendation of several good books with reviews.

JackTorsed
08-25-2007, 12:02 AM
Thanks for the lead. I happened upon Tom's site from my search. Great photos. Any other sites I should be looking at? thanks.

Chris J
08-25-2007, 12:06 AM
JohnsonLightingInc.com

niteliters
08-25-2007, 12:37 PM
what are the name of the books and where can I get them? thanks.

"A Hobby Out Of Control" by Bill Locklin

JackTorsed
08-25-2007, 10:41 PM
"A Hobby Out Of Control" by Bill Locklin

Thanks, where can I get it?

NightScenes
08-25-2007, 11:04 PM
You can order it on thier web site. www.nightscaping.com .

Turf Troll
08-26-2007, 09:28 AM
JackTorsed ,

I'll sell you mine two weeks old - $15 and no shipping, PM your address if interested.

JackTorsed
08-26-2007, 11:07 AM
JackTorsed ,

I'll sell you mine two weeks old - $15 and no shipping, PM your address if interested.

Does that mean you didn't like the book?

NightLightingFX
08-26-2007, 12:41 PM
I think the best book to start out on OR you should definetly get if you don't have is the "The Landscape Lighting Resource Manual" by Nate Mullen. It has tons of info and is easy to read. Even though Janet Lennox is the Queen of artistic outdoor lighting. Nate's book is a lot more enjoyable and easier to read vs. Janet's book. Just my oppinion. I am sure Joey can tell you where you can get the book.
~Ned
www.nightlightingfx.com

Turf Troll
08-26-2007, 12:49 PM
It just wasn't what I was looking for, not that I "didn't like it". It was more personal and his business.

$12 and I'll pay the postage if it's not over 2 bucks. Thats a deal!

I bought "The Landscape Lighting Resource Manual" by Nate Mullen which I will keep, while I am hesitant to buy Janet Moyer's book as I think I might be disappointed.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 01:33 PM
I think the best book to start out on OR you should definetly get if you don't have is the "The Landscape Lighting Resource Manual" by Nate Mullen. It has tons of info and is easy to read. Even though Janet Lennox is the Queen of artistic outdoor lighting. Nate's book is a lot more enjoyable and easier to read vs. Janet's book. Just my oppinion. I am sure Joey can tell you where you can get the book.
~Ned
www.nightlightingfx.com

They deleted my web link, you can go to my website to get the book.