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NC Greenscaper
08-25-2007, 10:20 AM
I'm thinking about adding low voltage lighting to the services we offer. What products/mfgs./distributors do you like? I'm located in Eastern NC. I'll be attending a Vista locally sponsored installation clinic soon, but want to find a good product with real good manufactor/dist. support and service. Do you have demo kits to take out in the field and set up for a prospective customer? We do lawn care, landscaping and irrigation. Just looking for a little moooore revenue.

Thanks, Gary

niteliters
08-25-2007, 12:04 PM
There's a # of decent manufacturers out there. Finding an exceptional distributor is what I would do first. Someone you already have a relationship with, maybe irrigation dist.

NightScenes
08-25-2007, 04:29 PM
I agree, see what lines your irrigation distributor offers and go from there. You can also do a search here on Lawnsite and find all kinds of info on different products.

Good luck and whatever you do, do it right the first time.

Chris J
08-25-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm just going to say this: if you are getting into it just for extra money, save yourself the time and aggravation. To do this well and be successful at it, you have to have a passion for it. You will be spending lots of nights away from your family, and if you currently have a day job this means you are going to be working from sun-up until 10-11Pm every day of your life.
Besides, if you don't love what you do you are going to suck at it anyway!

JoeyD
08-25-2007, 07:15 PM
Gary,

If you are serious and want to be brought up to speed on a very easy system that is bulletproof the call me.....760-219-2419. Let me explain to you what I can offer. I will teach you a system you can adapt to any manufacturers products!

Joey D.

Go Halogen
08-25-2007, 08:34 PM
Think of it like this. So many brands, styles, materials, etc. Find a main line and build on that. I have used just about every brand out there. I like many individual fixtures from a few lines. Vista is my main line for many reasons. They have really lived up to their word through the years. They have customized fixtures for me (they make everything at their factory), listened to my ideas (and acted on them), they have a great technical manager in my area, and most of all they stick to their warranties and then some. If you are going to Vista's plant you will see for yourself, the dedication effort.....But remember, there are some really neat fixtures out there by other lines. Use them to your advantage when you feel the need......By the way, I teach intro to landscape design and my local University and I always incorporate lighting. I have also been an installer for many years. Let me know if you have any related questions.

Go Halogen

Turf Troll
08-26-2007, 09:41 AM
Go Halogen, technical manager in my area are you referring to tony, have you been in touch with him since you started here?

Go Halogen
08-26-2007, 10:37 AM
Yes,

I know him as Anthony. I attended a local seminar in Philadelphia over the Winter. It was an Advanced Design Forum. He did a nice job. I am always impressed when I pick up new ideas. After 13 years of installing I tend to get set in my ways.

I call him periodically and he always puts time aside for me.

Do you know him?

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 10:54 AM
Gary,

If you are serious and want to be brought up to speed on a very easy system that is bulletproof the call me.....760-219-2419. Let me explain to you what I can offer. I will teach you a system you can adapt to any manufacturers products!

Joey D.

UGH!!!! Joey!!!! I like you and I love your products but your comment about EASY has got me in a rile. I am really tired of manufactures and dist alike telling guys how EASY this is. To do it well and do it right is not easy. It takes knowledge... patience... ability to learn. Teaching some guy the hub and telling him he can make money really easy is just plain out bad for our industry.

If you think digging trenches in the hot sun and punching sidewalks... going up trees... going back in the night to adjust the lighting and spending evenings away from home to meet with potential clients is easy then kudos to you. First of all this is not something you can learn to do properly over night. I think I did about 6mo of reading and learning as well as an install with another contractor before I felt I was ready to do this seriously. Second of all this is VERY labor intensive. Sure you can use some labor to help bury your systems but be prepared for that call out just before a party when one of the 10k hour bulbs you just put in failed to light mrs smiths prized fountain.

Its a great industry but it is not for everyone. It takes time and dedication. Its a specialty if you want to do it right and command the price of a specialist. Its not a walk in the park tho as just about every distributor and manufacture will tell anyone thats willing to listen.

Turf Troll
08-26-2007, 10:56 AM
Yes I met him when he was the manager at the John Deere scapes store a few years ago, then I went to the lighting seminar he had for JD last year.

Yes he is a top notch individual, Vista should consider themselves fortunate to have someone of his caliber representing them,

When I sent the link to this forum to him he believed that you might have been a instructor he had at U of D. years ago. He couldn't place you from the info you have except being in Bear. You should connect the dots for him.

Go Halogen
08-26-2007, 11:08 AM
Hmmm? I do not think he was a student of mine. I teach in Kent County. Not at U of D. I have met Anthony a few times. He does know about this site? It would be good for him to view this forum. I notice that there is growing list of manufacturer Reps logging on. I like when these guys chime in and offer good solutions and "general" advice. But it looks like the Unique guy is actively hunting for fresh meat! I think that this site is great for contractors and most of us know how to handle manufacturer comments.

I'll call Anthony this week to say hello and to let him know that he has few fans on this website.

Take Care.

JackTorsed
08-26-2007, 11:50 AM
Hmmm? I do not think he was a student of mine. I teach in Kent County. Not at U of D. I have met Anthony a few times. He does know about this site? It would be good for him to view this forum. I notice that there is growing list of manufacturer Reps logging on. I like when these guys chime in and offer good solutions and "general" advice. But it looks like the Unique guy is actively hunting for fresh meat! I think that this site is great for contractors and most of us know how to handle manufacturer comments.

I'll call Anthony this week to say hello and to let him know that he has few fans on this website.

Take Care.

aw c'mon now. The Unique guy is just doing his thing.

Turf Troll
08-26-2007, 12:30 PM
He received his Landscape Architecture degree from U of D and we were wondering/guessing who you were from your location.

Like you said he is giving with his time when you need something, when I contact him he's in Virgina or Maryland or D.C. or the beaches plus Delaware, he has a full schedule,
I just don't think he has the time to participate at this time.
I would like him to participate here, he would have a lot to contribute with just general lighting principles and business applications.

Best to you going into this school year,

Jim

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 12:56 PM
UGH!!!! Joey!!!! I like you and I love your products but your comment about EASY has got me in a rile. I am really tired of manufactures and dist alike telling guys how EASY this is. To do it well and do it right is not easy. It takes knowledge... patience... ability to learn. Teaching some guy the hub and telling him he can make money really easy is just plain out bad for our industry.

If you think digging trenches in the hot sun and punching sidewalks... going up trees... going back in the night to adjust the lighting and spending evenings away from home to meet with potential clients is easy then kudos to you. First of all this is not something you can learn to do properly over night. I think I did about 6mo of reading and learning as well as an install with another contractor before I felt I was ready to do this seriously. Second of all this is VERY labor intensive. Sure you can use some labor to help bury your systems but be prepared for that call out just before a party when one of the 10k hour bulbs you just put in failed to light mrs smiths prized fountain.

Its a great industry but it is not for everyone. It takes time and dedication. Its a specialty if you want to do it right and command the price of a specialist. Its not a walk in the park tho as just about every distributor and manufacture will tell anyone thats willing to listen.

Billy-

You are correct but I cannot teach patience, dedication, or buisness practices but I can however teach a person in a very short ammount of time the Hub system, how to test and wire it as well as how to test and wire a transformer. To someone who already has the experience of trenching in irrigation I dont think burrying our cables is that big of deal. Fact is it is an easy system to learn and teach. I understand what you are saying but lets not make it seem like the Hub system is rocket science. It has some basic principals and for someone who understands preasure loss in an irrigation system to pick up Voltage Drop in lighting is not all that hard. The troubleshooting and knowledge of what to do when lights are not coming on, now those are challenges that only experience will teach you how to handle. Obviously we teach all of that too but those things come with time. So your right, it isnt easy but it also isnt all that hard. To be the best takes time dedication and experince i cannot argue that.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 01:16 PM
Hmmm? I do not think he was a student of mine. I teach in Kent County. Not at U of D. I have met Anthony a few times. He does know about this site? It would be good for him to view this forum. I notice that there is growing list of manufacturer Reps logging on. I like when these guys chime in and offer good solutions and "general" advice. But it looks like the Unique guy is actively hunting for fresh meat! I think that this site is great for contractors and most of us know how to handle manufacturer comments.

I'll call Anthony this week to say hello and to let him know that he has few fans on this website.

Take Care.


I have not contacted one person via phone from this site. I do not look to this forum for new buisness I look to this forum for the same reason you do which is to gather and share ideas and to help drive the industry. I do not want to wear out my welcome nor do I want people here not to trust me. I do not expect everyone to like me, I understand a lot of times I will be guilty by association and contractors who are very loyal to my direct competion sometimes will not want anything to do with me or my products and I am cool with that. I only hope over time your opinon might change and you will see the only fresh meat I am after is the kind I can BBQ not sell lights too!

NightScenes
08-26-2007, 01:50 PM
Joey, you and I have had this discussion face to face over some good BBQ and I know your argument. I do agree with what you are saying, but I also agree with Billy. To tell a new guy that you just use 35 watt lamps in five fixtures and put then together in the hub. Check the voltage and amperage, make the adjustments and poof, you have a system, is over simplification. When I went through your class, this was the one thing that I was very disappointed in. It just seems that the class tries to be too simple. Does Unique offer a multi day class? Something that is a little more in depth? I know some manufactures offer short 1 day classes and longer 3 day courses for those who want to learn more. Is this something that we can look forward to from Unique?

Anyway, just my 2 cents on that subject.

Go Halogen
08-26-2007, 02:09 PM
Joey,

I admit it, I was goading you a bit. Mainly to see what type of response you would give. You did good. I apologize for my brassness. I use some Unique. I like to gutter mount your Stellars and I use your Apollos.

I am not a big fan of Hubs. I get more out of T systems. I can get more on a T, less money on wire compared to buying Hub systems.

I only use Hubs in large beds (when I need to use 6 lights and they are less than 50 ft. apart). Hubs limit me too much.

Thanks:clapping:

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 02:28 PM
Just because you can teach a lawn monkey to wire a system easily does not mean your arming him to be a low voltage tech. Your forgetting one of the most critical elements of a good install... Design. To think you can teach someone design by showing him 4 or 5 techniques in 1 day is downright arrogant.

I like the steps unique is taking to make sure contractors are stocked in the field with the included lenses and such but your practice of telling guys its easy and I can train you very quickly keeps you classed with all the other manufactures.

Quality and a better name for low voltage isnt just in the materials we use. Its in the workmanship and knowledge we possess and strive to obtain. A Hub isnt fool proof either. Nothing that needs to be calculated or custom designed will ever be foolproof.

I think its just bad business for manufactures to arm anyone willing with the basics just to be able to sell more product. Not only does this create low ball pricing from trunk slammers using high quality components but offering no service or warranty and questionable design.

Example would be... I come in and propose a job using unique lighting. I have 38 fixtures planned for this property and my estimate is under 10k. I am offering a lifetime warranty on my workmanship and 1 year on lamps with 1 year of included maint.

Trunkslammer comes in with same unique books. Butchers the design by using less fixtures with higher wattages and comes in with 25 fixtures for under 5k.

He will probably use the cheapest wire and wire nuts. He will use the cheapest lamps he can and not be around after the sale.

While I will still beat him on some jobs because my design and service excels he will still no doubt take his share of my work and when his system is in op or fails the client thinks low voltage lighting means low quality. This isnt salesmanship on his part. Its lowballing plain and simple. It happens everyday across the country.

JackTorsed
08-26-2007, 02:40 PM
The "hub" system wasn't invented by Unique. It was adopted by them as their system of choice for a few reasons in my humble opinion.
At the time they were the only manufacturer of multi taps up to 22 volts.
The system which includes long lead wires on fixtures of small gauge wire is such that you will need a transformer that has more than 15 volts output if you want to load up 5-35 watt lamps which they recommend at any homerun distance of greater than let's say 30'. This eliminated their competition until they began building higher voltage units. It was also implemented to make it easier for the landscaper to provide proper operating voltages to the fixtures. Historically this has always been a challenge for those who install lighting. This in turn would result in greater marketability to new comers who are intimidated by voltage drop.
Whether you use it or not is personal choice.
Those are just my observations.

NightLightingFX
08-26-2007, 02:50 PM
Billy,
I think you are being kind of hard on Joey. I think he as been adding a lot to this forum. However, I do agree with you on one thing about Unique and that is the brighter lamps. If one doesn't really have any experience or know what that are doing and they use Unique. They will enevitably be using 35 watt lamps. I think 20 watt lamps are better. I kind of got the impression Unique throws in 35 watt lamps to help sell transformers. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in brightness compared to the energy used when comparing 20watt vs. 35watt.
~Ned
www.nightlightingfx.com

JackTorsed
08-26-2007, 02:52 PM
Just because you can teach a lawn monkey to wire a system easily does not mean your arming him to be a low voltage tech. Your forgetting one of the most critical elements of a good install... Design. To think you can teach someone design by showing him 4 or 5 techniques in 1 day is downright arrogant.

I like the steps unique is taking to make sure contractors are stocked in the field with the included lenses and such but your practice of telling guys its easy and I can train you very quickly keeps you classed with all the other manufactures.

Quality and a better name for low voltage isnt just in the materials we use. Its in the workmanship and knowledge we possess and strive to obtain. A Hub isnt fool proof either. Nothing that needs to be calculated or custom designed will ever be foolproof.

I think its just bad business for manufactures to arm anyone willing with the basics just to be able to sell more product. Not only does this create low ball pricing from trunk slammers using high quality components but offering no service or warranty and questionable design.

Example would be... I come in and propose a job using unique lighting. I have 38 fixtures planned for this property and my estimate is under 10k. I am offering a lifetime warranty on my workmanship and 1 year on lamps with 1 year of included maint.

Trunkslammer comes in with same unique books. Butchers the design by using less fixtures with higher wattages and comes in with 25 fixtures for under 5k.

He will probably use the cheapest wire and wire nuts. He will use the cheapest lamps he can and not be around after the sale.

While I will still beat him on some jobs because my design and service excels he will still no doubt take his share of my work and when his system is in op or fails the client thinks low voltage lighting means low quality. This isnt salesmanship on his part. Its lowballing plain and simple. It happens everyday across the country.

Your post sounds like sour grapes. Why take it out on the manufacturer who is teaching a methodology. Go out in the field and devise a way to beat the pants of the so called low ballers who are eroding your share of the market. I think your anger is misplaced.

NC Greenscaper
08-26-2007, 07:20 PM
Thanks to all of you for your helpful comments. My earlier comments were wrong. I'm planning to attend a Cast clinic, not Vista.
Anyway, I have no intention to low ball any competition. I'm currently a lawn monkey who installs irrigation systems. I know a little about burying wire and pipe, tunneling under walkways. I taught basic electricity in the military. So I think if I work real hard at it I might be able to learn the fundamentals.

This is a segment of the landscaping business in this area that few are doing. I want to see whats involved and the possible revenue.

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 07:22 PM
I apologize... I should of stated my flaming was not directly at joey but rather the meathods at which manufactures and distributors alike recruit people. Joey just happened to be the target when he popped up with this "industry standard" approach. I do appologize to you Joey and I think you do offer alot to this board.

Im not angry nor are my grapes sour. I am simply venting my take on it. I dont have any lowballers undercutting me like this but it does hapen every day to guys across the country. There is no shortage of landscapers here doing shoddy lighting work tho (you gotta see the newest one with a trans mounted to a tree!)

Most landscapers are guy who will adapt to get the job at hand done. If they dont know the proper way out of a situation they may do something unethical or dangerously (ie trans mounted to a tree).

I think my rantings were more to kick Joey in the pants to get unique to be "unique" in thier approach to this and not just give foot soldiers some ammo and send them out but really train them or at least offer a comprehensive training program to newbies. I am passionate about this because I care about my chosen industry and want to see it grow with quality and not just trunk slammers who give it a bad name or guys looking to turn a quick buck

Dont worry Joey I like you. Come on down this fall and we will do some Redfishing with SamIV and get us a pile of crawfish :)

Again I apologize it wasnt meant to be directed at you. It was meant to be directed at this industry practice.

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 07:24 PM
Thanks to all of you for your helpful comments. My earlier comments were wrong. I'm planning to attend a Cast clinic, not Vista.
Anyway, I have no intention to low ball any competition. I'm currently a lawn monkey who installs irrigation systems. I know a little about burying wire and pipe, tunneling under walkways. I taught basic electricity in the military. So I think if I work real hard at it I might be able to learn the fundamentals.

This is a segment of the landscaping business in this area that few are doing. I want to see whats involved and the possible revenue.

Kudos to you for wanting to learn it right. It can be a great add on but be sure you arm yourself with the knowledge to do it right and above all safely.

I didnt mean to hijack your thread but it just struck a soft spot with me.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 09:02 PM
Joey, you and I have had this discussion face to face over some good BBQ and I know your argument. I do agree with what you are saying, but I also agree with Billy. To tell a new guy that you just use 35 watt lamps in five fixtures and put then together in the hub. Check the voltage and amperage, make the adjustments and poof, you have a system, is over simplification. When I went through your class, this was the one thing that I was very disappointed in. It just seems that the class tries to be too simple. Does Unique offer a multi day class? Something that is a little more in depth? I know some manufactures offer short 1 day classes and longer 3 day courses for those who want to learn more. Is this something that we can look forward to from Unique?

Anyway, just my 2 cents on that subject.
Believe me guys I do not take offense to any honest critisism. This is what will help make our programs better.

But the answer is yes, we offer our 2 and 3 day advanced installation courses. Those that are not so basic and simplified. These classes are not for rookies they are to teach you how to use and install direct burials, trick ways of getting wire into concrete, up walls, coring, and boring.

Next class is in October.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 09:06 PM
Just because you can teach a lawn monkey to wire a system easily does not mean your arming him to be a low voltage tech. Your forgetting one of the most critical elements of a good install... Design. To think you can teach someone design by showing him 4 or 5 techniques in 1 day is downright arrogant.

I like the steps unique is taking to make sure contractors are stocked in the field with the included lenses and such but your practice of telling guys its easy and I can train you very quickly keeps you classed with all the other manufactures.

Quality and a better name for low voltage isnt just in the materials we use. Its in the workmanship and knowledge we possess and strive to obtain. A Hub isnt fool proof either. Nothing that needs to be calculated or custom designed will ever be foolproof.

I think its just bad business for manufactures to arm anyone willing with the basics just to be able to sell more product. Not only does this create low ball pricing from trunk slammers using high quality components but offering no service or warranty and questionable design.

Example would be... I come in and propose a job using unique lighting. I have 38 fixtures planned for this property and my estimate is under 10k. I am offering a lifetime warranty on my workmanship and 1 year on lamps with 1 year of included maint.

Trunkslammer comes in with same unique books. Butchers the design by using less fixtures with higher wattages and comes in with 25 fixtures for under 5k.

He will probably use the cheapest wire and wire nuts. He will use the cheapest lamps he can and not be around after the sale.

While I will still beat him on some jobs because my design and service excels he will still no doubt take his share of my work and when his system is in op or fails the client thinks low voltage lighting means low quality. This isnt salesmanship on his part. Its lowballing plain and simple. It happens everyday across the country.

I totally get yuour point Billy but rarely will the low baller be using Unique! Maybe a Unique knockoff. But I do know where your going here and your right. I am mainly refferring to technical. I can teach design but it does take much experience to perfect.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 09:16 PM
I apologize... I should of stated my flaming was not directly at joey but rather the meathods at which manufactures and distributors alike recruit people. Joey just happened to be the target when he popped up with this "industry standard" approach. I do appologize to you Joey and I think you do offer alot to this board.

Im not angry nor are my grapes sour. I am simply venting my take on it. I dont have any lowballers undercutting me like this but it does hapen every day to guys across the country. There is no shortage of landscapers here doing shoddy lighting work tho (you gotta see the newest one with a trans mounted to a tree!)

Most landscapers are guy who will adapt to get the job at hand done. If they dont know the proper way out of a situation they may do something unethical or dangerously (ie trans mounted to a tree).

I think my rantings were more to kick Joey in the pants to get unique to be "unique" in thier approach to this and not just give foot soldiers some ammo and send them out but really train them or at least offer a comprehensive training program to newbies. I am passionate about this because I care about my chosen industry and want to see it grow with quality and not just trunk slammers who give it a bad name or guys looking to turn a quick buck

Dont worry Joey I like you. Come on down this fall and we will do some Redfishing with SamIV and get us a pile of crawfish :)

Again I apologize it wasnt meant to be directed at you. It was meant to be directed at this industry practice.

First off my pants dont need anymore kicking, I get enoguh of that working for Nate!!! No seriously it's cool. Unique does have some old school approaches that worked well a few years back as far as simplifying the system but you guys make me realize we should step our training up a bit more. One thing I can tell you guys is Nate always starts the classes he teaches off with one question...."how many of you came to this class to learn how to be a professional in 2 days..?" Guys raise their hands...."Well you guys can leave becuase if you think you can become a pro in 2 days your crazy........." The point is our intent is not to BS people into thinking we will make the system so easy they can install 500 lights and design lighting for the Taj Majal. But we can teach them a system that yeah maybe 35watts are to brite but I would rather have properly volted too brite lamps then undervolted poorly laid out 20 watt lights. We can change the wattages and play with designs but if you cant get between 11-12 volts to each lamp you might as well stick to adjusting sprinklers.

So far you guys are a blast, I would love to come eat some crafish and kick your pants in Redfishing...what ever the hell that is!

Joey D.

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 09:26 PM
red fishing = fishing for redfish. Nice inshore sport fish that is some mighty fine eatin. I guess Mr Burt at Accent Outdoor Lighting is like the Jedi Master of sight fishing (this is shallow water fishing and casting when you see the fish) as well as cooking it.

We fish a bit diff style usually with spoons or live bait. I recall 1 trip last year we came back with about 120 fish stuffed in the box with a variaty of white trout and reds and speckled trout. My wife tends to outfish me 2 to 1 but I always beat her by size (hey size DOES matter right????)

Crawfish are a staple here in the cooler months. Just good eats thats for sure. I think Pablo needs to mosey on over from texas and you atlanta boys need to roll down too. Maybe even do a tuna charter

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 09:31 PM
red fishing = fishing for redfish. Nice inshore sport fish that is some mighty fine eatin. I guess Mr Burt at Accent Outdoor Lighting is like the Jedi Master of sight fishing (this is shallow water fishing and casting when you see the fish) as well as cooking it.

We fish a bit diff style usually with spoons or live bait. I recall 1 trip last year we came back with about 120 fish stuffed in the box with a variaty of white trout and reds and speckled trout. My wife tends to outfish me 2 to 1 but I always beat her by size (hey size DOES matter right????)

Crawfish are a staple here in the cooler months. Just good eats thats for sure. I think Pablo needs to mosey on over from texas and you atlanta boys need to roll down too. Maybe even do a tuna charter


OK now your talking my language. I do a few 1 1/2 day boats for Tuna off the coast of Mexico every year. Go for Yellow Tail, Albacore, Dorado, and Yellow Fin. I do a lot more freshwater for Bass, Trout, and Catfish.

I have a pond on my property we relax at and fish for blue gill and bass in. Nothing better than a summer afternoon sitting on the water catching dinner!!

Us southern california boys know how to play too!!! Its not all fake boobs and convertables out here!

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 09:40 PM
OK now your talking my language. I do a few 1 1/2 day boats for Tuna off the coast of Mexico every year. Go for Yellow Tail, Albacore, Dorado, and Yellow Fin. I do a lot more freshwater for Bass, Trout, and Catfish.

I have a pond on my property we relax at and fish for blue gill and bass in. Nothing better than a summer afternoon sitting on the water catching dinner!!

Us southern california boys know how to play too!!! Its not all fake boobs and convertables out here!

Im a northern cali boy (go garlic!!! Gilroy)
We got a 4 acre pond here now. 7.5 pound bass and pound and a half pan fish. Cats are tippin about 6-8 pounds now (stocked 3 years ago with cats)

We dont venture more than about 12 miles offshore to the barrier islands. Did 2 months in keywest couple years ago and nailed a total of 5 sail fish and countless snapper and other reef fish too. 3 sails in one day. There is a pic on here someplace of it.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 09:41 PM
Im a northern cali boy (go garlic!!! Gilroy)
We got a 4 acre pond here now. 7.5 pound bass and pound and a half pan fish. Cats are tippin about 6-8 pounds now (stocked 3 years ago with cats)

We dont venture more than about 12 miles offshore to the barrier islands. Did 2 months in keywest couple years ago and nailed a total of 5 sail fish and countless snapper and other reef fish too. 3 sails in one day. There is a pic on here someplace of it.

Too much fun!!!! Lets set up a trip!!!

Pro-Scapes
08-26-2007, 09:55 PM
Too much fun!!!! Lets set up a trip!!!

sure email me thru my website below.

Eden Lights
08-26-2007, 10:52 PM
Gary,

If you are serious and want to be brought up to speed on a very easy system that is bulletproof the call me.....760-219-2419. Let me explain to you what I can offer. I will teach you a system you can adapt to any manufacturers products!

Joey D.

Bulletproof? Does this mean that the lock and load socket is no longer being used along with those rubber lamp holders in your low end well lights. Joey it's great to have you here, but when you start hawking your products be ready to take a little heat. I have posted my thoughts on this some time back.

JoeyD
08-26-2007, 10:57 PM
Bulletproof? Does this mean that the lock and load socket is no longer being used along with those rubber lamp holders in your low end well lights. Joey it's great to have you here, but when you start hawking your products be ready to take a little heat. I have posted my thoughts on this some time back.

Yeah the lock and load did fail, we have a solution to the problem but we no longer install them in the lights. We do warranty. And it is funny you mention the F125, we are redesigning that fixture as well to have a better grate and lamp holder but still remain fairly in expensive. that fixture has been around since day one with the same basic design, its due for a re design.

I can take the heat!!!!!

NC Greenscaper
09-09-2007, 03:07 PM
I attended a cast installation and product seminar last week. I was really impressed with the training and thier products. Man, the fixtures were heavy. Lifetime warrantee on the fixtures. Also, liked the spider splice technique for wiring. Seemed to make the math easier. Looking forward to installing a system.

Gary

pete scalia
09-09-2007, 03:20 PM
yes cast is the best. being from the east coast I am a bit biased. you can't go wrong with cast and they don't have rubber holding their wellights!