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JackTorsed
08-29-2007, 12:27 AM
I looked at a job today that had get this. 9 20 watt halogen pathlights powered by a multi transformer all on one homerun. they wired it this way. Daisy chain with 8 gauge on the 14 volt output. The first fixture about 5 feet from the transformer and the next 4 about 15 feet on center then there was a space of about 50' before the next 4 fixtures were again daisy chained and 15 feet on center all on the same cable run. Obviously the first fixture or so was constantly blowing it's lamp/s. The second set of fixtures was significantly voltage dropped. How do these guys get hired?

Golden Boy
08-29-2007, 01:06 AM
Low bid and no references

Pro-Scapes
08-29-2007, 08:16 AM
yep... they get hired on price alone or it was a landscaper throw in. Have you EVER had a client ask about your wiring technique ? Daisey chain is after all how everyone things LV is supposed to be done... We can thank malibu for this I think

JoeyD
08-29-2007, 01:47 PM
These kind of guys dont even own volt and amp meters guaranteed. They see that there is light on and thats good enough for them.

David Gretzmier
08-30-2007, 12:27 AM
I'll put his out there- that is the way a lot of installs were done here 10, 5 years ago and even today. I'm really the only "lighting" guy, so mostly landscapers and irrigation guys. I have not used 8 guage in a few years, so I don't know the voltage drop, but I think it is 4 times as thick as 12 guage, so there should not be too much drop until 100 ft or so. did you take any readings with the lights hot? obviously 14 volts at the trans area, but what did you read at the end of the run?

JackTorsed
08-30-2007, 12:57 AM
I'll put his out there- that is the way a lot of installs were done here 10, 5 years ago and even today. I'm really the only "lighting" guy, so mostly landscapers and irrigation guys. I have not used 8 guage in a few years, so I don't know the voltage drop, but I think it is 4 times as thick as 12 guage, so there should not be too much drop until 100 ft or so. did you take any readings with the lights hot? obviously 14 volts at the trans area, but what did you read at the end of the run?

Doesn't matter as this is not the proper way to distribute power to a low voltage lighting system. The voltage difference between the 1st and last light was 3 volts. You can do the math from there.

David Gretzmier
08-31-2007, 12:40 AM
I agree it is wrong, but my point is that in my area, even 7 years ago, training was not that available at either of our distibutors, so installers just did what the guys behind the counters told them to do- use big wire, this shiny transformer form nightscaping, and these fixtures. Lawnsite was barely even here 7 years ago. what hacks me is folks still do this today, and there is a lighting seminar every 3 months that explains voltage. In an hours time on the internet you can at least get some ranges and rough knowledge.

alot of irrigation guys do the same thing in pipes- use 1 1/4 inch mains and 3/4 latterals, and don't even check pressure or figure gpm per zone. the difference is it works for water to have overkill, so why not on lighting ? they just don't get it.

I really had to go out of my way to find books and training 7 years ago, and most folks just chose then and now not to do that.

So I fix the problems, and move on.

Chris J
08-31-2007, 12:48 AM
What's that Biblical phrase? It goes something like; Lord, forgive me for the things that I can not change, and the patience not to beat the crap out of them? (something like that) I can't remember the exact words to it, but you get the meaning.

JoeyD
08-31-2007, 10:20 AM
What's that Biblical phrase? It goes something like; Lord, forgive me for the things that I can not change, and the patience not to beat the crap out of them? (something like that) I can't remember the exact words to it, but you get the meaning.


Your Church sounds interesting Chris!!!