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View Full Version : Kawisaki engine bad on toro??? suggestions please.


DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 02:13 PM
ive got a 2003 17 hp kawisaki F500V recoil on my toro. it takes me about 30 pulls to get the engine started!!:dizzy: :cry: :confused: i dont know what to do. and its getting annoying. ive changed the spark plugs and checked the airfilter, and i set the choke, so any suggetions would help.

are there any better spark plugs i can get??? thanks

Eric D
09-04-2007, 02:33 PM
ive changed the spark plugs and checked the airfilter, and i set the choke, so any suggetions would help.

are there any better spark plugs i can get??? thanks

You mentioned setting the choke, are you sure it is fully closing and if yes, try pushing the plate with your finger and make sure it stays shut even if you put some pressure on it.

Did it always start hard or is this something it just started doing? How many hours?

Regards,

Eric D

american dream
09-04-2007, 02:49 PM
make sure you are getting a good spark.

DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 02:51 PM
i push the choke all the way down. he choke is attached to the speed thing where you can set it in low gear/rpm's. i bought this mower last fall from a guy who didnt need it anymore. its always taken about 15 to 20 pulls to start, but now its gotten worse. the guy i bought it from said he had left it outside and it got some weathering. its only got about 150 hours on the whole machine. from what i can tel, the guy was hard on the mower cause of squeaking brakes and other small things. i bought the mower for only $1850 and its a belt drive. the one in my signature.

Pro-Scapes
09-04-2007, 03:05 PM
15 to 20 pulls to start it should of raised your eyebrows a bit. Thats rediculous. My kawi after sitting for 3 months took all of 3 pulls with choke to start it. On that note it could be a number of things. Are the plugs fouling ? is the spark strong ? Carb could need adjusting rebuilding. Given the number of things to go wrong and you cant find an obvious problem I would take it to the nearest dealer and at least pay his diagnostic charge. Would probably pay for itself in a year with the rate you will be going thru starter ropes.

If it sat outside and it has some squeaks you need to locate these and lubricate it properly. Could be something as simple as a choke adjustment (this is always a likley cause) or something as major as mechanical probs. You dont mention if its blowing oil or the condition of the plugs. I assume you changed the fuel filter and keep your air filter clean ?

grassnazi1
09-04-2007, 03:09 PM
my 2 cents.... as far as mechanical maintenance. What about removing the carb and cleaning it? There may be rust settlements in the bowl or carbon build up that could be causing the rough start. How does the mower idle? Does it run smoothly at proper operating temp? If you think the previous owner has been rough on it, the first thing I would look into is the cleaning of the carb or possibly throwing a rebuild kit in it. If that doesn't clear up the concern.... Maybe check compression with a cheap compression gauge from auto zone? How does the mower idle? Does it run smooth at proper operating temp? Just a few ideas to hopefully work out your problem.

DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 03:15 PM
yeah, when i idle it it shuts off after about 30 seconds from lack of gas, i changed the gas filter and still same problem. i checked the plugs and the are not fouled. and im not that good with engines so i dont know where the carb is located. im still in the process of learning everything there is to know about fixing my mower, so bare with me. i took it to the shop about 2 months ago to get a new clutch and i told them to go over the engine very well to see if there was anymore problems. they didnt find anything except that the choke/gear rpm's adjuster didnt go into low gear cause of some spring. they fixed it so its cool now. everything else seems to be running good....

lawnpro724
09-04-2007, 05:17 PM
i push the choke all the way down. he choke is attached to the speed thing where you can set it in low gear/rpm's. i bought this mower last fall from a guy who didnt need it anymore. its always taken about 15 to 20 pulls to start, but now its gotten worse. the guy i bought it from said he had left it outside and it got some weathering. its only got about 150 hours on the whole machine. from what i can tel, the guy was hard on the mower cause of squeaking brakes and other small things. i bought the mower for only $1850 and its a belt drive. the one in my signature.

Mine starts on first pull if the choke is on second if its not. Kaws are very good engines and will run forever with proper service. Its sounds like a carb problem. Is there a strong smell of gas after several pulls? I would rebuild the carb especially if its seen alot of use in dirty conditions.

DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 05:49 PM
ok, i do smell a little gas after a bunch of pulls. i just got in from cuttin the grass and it took 63 pulls to get it started. i mean crap. thats a little ridiculous!!!!!!!

ed2hess
09-04-2007, 07:00 PM
Post this in repair section.........may be a problem with the valves not seating and they need to be cleaned and regaped...

Eric D
09-04-2007, 07:10 PM
i push the choke all the way down. he choke is attached to the speed thing where you can set it in low gear/rpm's. .
More then likely the starting problem is your choke not closing completely. You need to locate the carburator and the side that faces the air cleaner need to be removed to allow you to see the plate that closes off the air flow into the carburator. This plate has to close completely when you move the knob up on your control panel where the throttle is. Getting this set correctly is a must to allow easy starting.

Eric D

DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 07:28 PM
More then likely the starting problem is your choke not closing completely. You need to locate the carburator and the side that faces the air cleaner need to be removed to allow you to see the plate that closes off the air flow into the carburator. This plate has to close completely when you move the knob up on your control panel where the throttle is. Getting this set correctly is a must to allow easy starting.

Eric D

but, do you think that a simple little thing as a small gap of air would cause a mower not to start within 62 pulls? is the carb that important for it to be closed????:confused: :dizzy: :drinkup:

Eric D
09-04-2007, 07:41 PM
but, do you think that a simple little thing as a small gap of air would cause a mower not to start within 62 pulls? is the carb that important for it to be closed????:confused: :dizzy: :drinkup:Yes! That important. When trouble shooting an issue it is always best to start with the simple stuff first. (meaning easiest to check and fix). Hey, just my two cents worth..:waving:

Eric D

DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 07:49 PM
ok, i went out to check the carb, and it DOESNT fully close when the choke is in place. its fully opened when the mower is in low speed and partly closed when in fast speed and it doesnt change from that spot when in choke.

if i dont get this fixed for a month or two, will it hurt my mower? should i take it in right away???? thanks

Restrorob
09-04-2007, 08:41 PM
if i dont get this fixed for a month or two, will it hurt my mower? should i take it in right away???? thanks


You know what to do now.....:waving:

lawnpro724
09-04-2007, 08:41 PM
ok, i went out to check the carb, and it DOESNT fully close when the choke is in place. its fully opened when the mower is in low speed and partly closed when in fast speed and it doesnt change from that spot when in choke.

if i dont get this fixed for a month or two, will it hurt my mower? should i take it in right away???? thanks

Take it in to the shop and have them rebuild the carb, the choke even if it doesn't close all the way should start within the first five pulls. Mine starts with choke completely open after 2-3 pulls even after sitting for over a week.

DillonsLawnCare
09-04-2007, 09:55 PM
what do you think the price will be. a rough estimate. i know ur not the repair man. but hey, worth a try.

lawnpro724
09-05-2007, 10:37 AM
what do you think the price will be. a rough estimate. i know ur not the repair man. but hey, worth a try.

Not sure about price but I would guess less than $200.00 depending on your shops labor cost. If your handy and mechanically inclined you could do it yourself and save yourself a bunch of money. I would spend the money and have the shop do it for peace of mind. Your shop will rebuild the carb and adjust the settings so it runs good, pulling 40-60 times to get started when your at customers place doesn't look good and is bad for your reputation.

topsites
09-05-2007, 10:55 AM
Yeah, couple of hundred, likely it got dirt in the bowl or the jets, been many years since I had this problem, the last time I experienced the 50-puller was in the days of running cheap fuel, see guys THIS is why I insist on running namebrand premium :laugh:
Oh yeah it ain't like I'm some rich fool just woke up one day and decided it's time to splurge like an idiot, 2 or 3 days of that 50+ pull to start recoil rope crap and my arm was so sore I was forever convinced. No doubt it ran dandy on regular, until that one day when the dirt finally gets to it, no more for me.

I will say you need to make sure your spark plug is gapped right, mine was off at .050 or some stupid wide, it needs to be .030
Still, I switched to super, never again will I pull 50 times no stupid recoil rope, fark that!
There's no ultimate guarantee it won't ever happen again, but I do know with super it runs better, longer.
Amoco BP 93, pay at the pump or pay later.

Eric D
09-05-2007, 01:03 PM
Ok topsites,

Iím falling for the bait!:rolleyes: The never ending debate on Premium versus Regular gas.

Here are some key points to keep in mind:


Premium fuel sometimes is worse fuel than regular. It resists knock because it's harder to ignite than lower-octane fuels. For us, this means harder to start!

The Federal Trade Commission, in a consumer notice, emphasizes: "In most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner." The same holds true for lawn cutting equipment.

Do as you may, itís your right, but you are eating at your profits for no real benefit.

Hey, just my humble opinion!:usflag:

Eric D

DillonsLawnCare
09-05-2007, 05:27 PM
Ok topsites,

Iím falling for the bait!:rolleyes: The never ending debate on Premium versus Regular gas.

Here are some key points to keep in mind:


Premium fuel sometimes is worse fuel than regular. It resists knock because it's harder to ignite than lower-octane fuels. For us, this means harder to start!

The Federal Trade Commission, in a consumer notice, emphasizes: "In most cases, using a higher-octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner." The same holds true for lawn cutting equipment.

Do as you may, itís your right, but you are eating at your profits for no real benefit.

Hey, just my humble opinion!:usflag:

Eric D



well, why do people sell this higher octane fuel if it has no purpose. why do they have 3 different gases when they only need one from what your saying. what is the purpose of super unleaded or mid-grade unleaded if it all just burns the same...??? :clapping: :drinkup: :cool2: :weightlifter: :usflag:

Eric D
09-05-2007, 09:43 PM
well, why do people sell this higher octane fuel if it has no purpose.Well, how about money.

Eric D

DillonsLawnCare
09-05-2007, 09:55 PM
besides that!

Big Red Ferris
09-05-2007, 11:11 PM
put a carb kit in it and put new seals on the intake been there done that

topsites
09-05-2007, 11:31 PM
I'm not arguing that Wawa super might be worse than Amoco regular, nor am I guaranteeing an engine won't have problems, the stupid debate can go on and on much like with the folks who never pay... It's not about the issue at hand anymore, now it becomes some endless debate about the ins and outs and the ifs ands and the buts, when and where does the argument stop?

I really don't care if Lco's want to run recycled motor oil through an engine, but when a mower doesn't start and an Lco has NO experience rebuilding carburetors at $200 a fix, perhaps it isn't such an unprofitable idea to run a clean fuel in the first place.

I'm saying if you buy the nice stuff then chances are you'll have less problems, pay at the pump or pay with your arm when it doesn't start, even starter cords are a pita to replace and 50 pulls are sure to put some wear on that. Back in the days when I ran regular I replaced a cord it seemed like monthly, not the same machine but between all of them... I got so sick and tired of stupid ropes breaking, but now with super it takes LESS strength to start it and I break 1 rope a year on average, maybe two, every single machine of mine except the Z is recoil start, I am sure I have at least a dozen recoilers between all of them, at least.

It's not a HUGE difference either, 30-50 more cents per gallon for a cleaner fuel, impeccably clean it isn't, I'm sure a $20 drops fast this way, yes. But if small differences are not important then why do Lco's bother to use 90% germ rate seed instead of KY 31, the principle is the same, guys like me care about the end result and we ARE all about that.

But either way you pay, profit gone at the pump, or profit gone in downtime and repairs.
It really takes an hour when a rope breaks, how you look at it, by the time that stupid thing is back together IF you had the parts handy I guarantee it sets you back at least 20 minutes, there's $20 that way, in one fell swoop.
The filters last longer, oh it's only a dollar, yeah plus the 10-15 minutes it takes to replace it, another $20.
So I just pay at the pump and be done with it.

DillonsLawnCare
09-07-2007, 06:11 PM
yeah, i wasnt arguing, but i do run premium fuel in all my equipment.

Eric D
09-07-2007, 08:21 PM
Topsites,

I don’t believe it is a “stupid debate”. What you do is totally up to you. But others read these threads and I think they deserve to here the facts as an opposed to someone’s feelings. Your assumption as I understand it, if you pay more money you get cleaner fuel and that premium fuel starts better then regular. Both of your assumptions are wrong. If need be I can quote the requirements, but in short, fuel is highly regulated and has to meet very stringent test. Many years back before fuel injectors and catalytic converters, and double walled storage tanks there may have been some truth to fuel brands and grades being different qualities. Yes, there maybe a bad station here and there and bad fuel could be part of it, but much less likely then ten to twenty years ago.

Eric D

topsites
09-07-2007, 09:15 PM
I never said it was a debate, I said it was an argument.
And I also said I'm done with it, I am glad you run regular, please keep running it,
thank you.

txgrassguy
09-07-2007, 09:38 PM
ok, i went out to check the carb, and it DOESNT fully close when the choke is in place. its fully opened when the mower is in low speed and partly closed when in fast speed and it doesnt change from that spot when in choke.

if i dont get this fixed for a month or two, will it hurt my mower? should i take it in right away???? thanks

Dude, you can repair this yourself - very easily.
Simply locate the throttle cable, follow it down to the carburetor, and where the clamp that holds the cable in position is where you will make the adjustment.
With the air cleaner off so you can see into the carburetor throat, loosen the clamp and with the throttle set in the choke position, move the cable until the choke plate fully seats. Then tighten the clamp and you are done.