Lawn Out Of My Route

[TGCummings]

Need your thoughts on this one.

I went out of my area to quote on a lawn today up in the hills. There are three lawns on the property measuring a total of just over 4000 square, with obstacles like landscape rocks and small trees strewn about. The lawn has an irrigation system and they want my fertilizer plan as well as weekly mowing, trimming, edging, and blowout. I'll most likely have to cut with a 21" because of obstacles but I might be able to use my 36. It's a rich area with no other lawns real close by. According to my formula, which has worked very well for new quotes this year, the service comes to $158/month for services listed. I'm getting that kind of rate for new lawns at this time.

However, the total trip up and back from my closest lawn is about 40 minutes (round trip) through winding hills and bad roads. I'm figuring an additional $96/month for the extra time driving out and back, for a total of $256/month. That's steep for a 4000 square foot lawn in any area, I know, but I can't justify the drive out any other way. I'm figuring $36/hour for the behind-the-wheel time ($36/hour x 40 minutes drive time = $24 each trip x app. 4 trips/month = $96/month driving).

I'm taking the position that this is the rate I need and I'm better off without the property if I can't get it. My question to you, my friends, is am I being unreasonable? Would you take the property sans drive pay? Would you disregard the property altogether as too far outside the route?

I'm calling this evening with my quote, so any thoughts you have are appreciated!

-TGC

[mdb landscaping]

i guess if you get the money you feel you need to drive out of your way, go for it. i dont know about $96 bucks a month extra for driving? seems a little steep. if they take it, all the more power to you though. good luck.

[TGCummings]

You know, it seems a little steep to me, too ($96/month driving), but I tried to be scientific about it. $36/hour is the base I need during a work day to meet minimum costs + profit, so I think I need to charge that rate during transit. Transit time is taking away from mowing time, obviously, where I could earn at least that amount.

Given the same situation, what would you figure would be a 'fair' amount to charge for the extra transit time?

-TGC

[Buttered Waffle]

I quote every cutomer based on load/unload time, actual production time, travel time, then mileage. I have built my reputation on charging what I need to make PROFIT. If people don't value your time then do you want them as a customer anyway? I lose more bids than I get. I can stay home and go broke.
Who's to say that a business or residence close to your shop decides they need their property serviced? Then you have resources contracted 20 minutes away making less money. Seems to me the far away customer will start to get sub-par service because you aren't making the cash you need to make. That's when your most valuable commodity is jeopardized....your GOOD NAME!
One more thing, you have decided that minimun you need to make is $36.00 per man hour. Why compromise your MINIMUN?

[TGCummings]

Waffle,

You're making the same points I've been making to myself since finishing my quote earlier today. These are the things that make sense in my mind but the final number just seemed steep (as mdb pointed out) and I needed some reconfirmation that I wasn't being unduly unfair.

You're right, of course, that I can't compromise what I know I need to make in order to meet cost and make reasonable profit. If I take the job for less I would undoubtedly come to resent it for getting in my way of making a proper amount of money on closer projects.

I'll have to stick to my guns on this one. If they take the quote, I'll know I'm making what is necessary to meet my needs. If they don't, I have an open slot remaining in my schedule for the next customer that does meet those needs.

Thanks!

-TGC

[KirbysLawn]

I doubt you will get that, as you already know I assume. I would not drive 40 minutes for one lawn either. MAybe do a flyer blitz in that area this week and see if you can pick up several more to make the trip worth it. It's only one either way so I wouldn't worry.

[TGCummings]

Yeah, I figure on not getting it, either.

I've actually turned down requests from folks to even look at their lawn a similar distance in various other directions, but this is a good friend of a good customer and I promised him I'd take a look. Like the man said, I need to make it worth my while.

If I do get it, the money's worthwhile and the scenery along the way is good. ;)

-TGC

[lawrence stone]

Take the job if you can develop an entire days work in that area.

Go to the courthouse or use INFO usa and direct mail every prospect that is on route. Do you have to go home in the same direction? Can you make a circle to open more markets?

Charge a 20% travel time premium to the first and any new accounts. Therefore you will start to make extra money after the
5th account.

[TGCummings]

In all honesty, I wouldn't target new accounts out that way, I'd target them closer to my established routes. We're working on many of the things you've suggested, but not out there.

Currently, I do have enough time in my schedule to take on this place, if all the extra time spent is paid for, but it's not an area I would actively pursue at this point. If they take the quote, at nearly 60% higher than my normal quote, than fair enough. If I went 20%, I think I'd be cutting my own throat.

All in all, it's an account I'll probably be better off without in the long run so there's a need to quote it very high.

Like the man said, however, I doubt it's accepted...

-TGC

[crs]

I just turned in a proposal for a two insurance offices. One is less than two miles from my shop. The other is in a small community that is approximately 25 miles away. They are a package deal, otherwise I would not have considered the one that far away. I started my computations with my normal hourly charge(drive time) added to my weekly service visits. I explained to the office manager that I had to charge for drive time as well as my service. She indicated that she understood. If I get the job I will enjoy getting to sit down and listen to some tunes on the way down there.

My thought is I would not activley pursue this kind of business but I also wont turn it down.

[TGCummings]

I got the account at $260/month.

See, it pays to follow through even when in doubt... ;)

Special credit should go to Mrs. TGC for her excellent work on the phones in this one. She bagged me a nice trimming job for this Friday, too, that should yield a good rate. Having her home on the phones is already paying dividends. :)

-TGC

[65hoss]

I just put a bid in for a lawn that is out of my way also. I bid it much higher, then before I emailed it out, I added more to it. If I get it then its worth it, if not, I priced it away from a headache.

[MATTHEW]

Just say " I'm sorry but you are out of my service area".
Imagine where you go to work, all day and the trip odometer reads 18 miles. You saved time, gas and wear & tear on the truck and trailer tires. My farthest lawn from the shop is about 8 mile and when I am behind schedule from rain or a breakdown, those 8 miles seem like 80.;)

[JimLewis]

Well congrats on getting it. I just read this thread for the first time. But I was about to say you are right on the mark. I would charge just as you had and if you didn't get it you'd be better off.

Personally, I use an even more stringent formula for figuring out how much to charge. Instead of thinking of my drive time and charging an additional $96, I would have thought to myself, "Damn you look good. " Then I would have thought, "In that same 40 minutes each week how much could I make in that time?" Well, in 40 minutes our crews can get through about 1.5 lawns. Average lawn for us is about $125. So I'd be missing out on about $190 per month by taking that job. Hence, I would charge $190 more. Hence, I don't ever bid jobs outside our route. Because very few people would ever pay us $190 more than they should. And if I allowed our schedule to get full of clients who are outside our route, I wouldn't have as much room when clients inside our route called. And those are really the ones we want to focus on.

I'd rather grow at a good pace and get accounts all close to each other than to grow very rapidly but have accounts all over the place.

We make a killing by staying withing very tight routes. Our crews travel within the same neighborhood all day on most days. Very little drive time. This is the most profitable way to do it.

Still, you did well. You always have to count your time as money. Even if it's just drive time. Don't let anyone tell you different.

[TGCummings]

Jim,

Thanks for the response.

I feel the same way you do about it, in that most likely I would have been better off in the long run not getting this account. I want route consolidation, shorter drive times, and closer service calls, etc. Right now, however, we're willing to go the extra distance (if we can get our rate) because we need the extra money to keep operating while we grow.

Like I said, though, I felt this was a situation I couldn't really lose in. If I got the job, I've made sure the rate is worth the drive. If I didn't get the job, I would still know I stuck to my guns and could continue focusing that time on closer accounts.

As another man said here, I wouldn't go chasing these kinds of accounts but I'll take advantage of the opportunity when they come. ;)

This one worked out.

-TGC

[greensummer]

TGC,

Do not charge extra but develop the area thru brochures, customer referals, coupon discounts etc.

Tommy

[kutnkru]

Jim has it figured the way that I would if you cannot either get them to find clientele thru neigbors or others in the area to make it worth the trip for you, or aquire more clients thru mass marketing the areas.

Just throwing my .02 in here - LOL!!!
Kris

[Buttered Waffle]

I believe that TGC has already stated that he got the bid. He also stated that he got the bid on his terms. What makes sense to some as far as getting a certain man hour rating is irrelevent. As long as TCG is getting what he needs to make a profit in HIS market, he has made a good business decision. As far as not charging for travel time with the hopes of getting new clients in the area, I say PHOOEY! Spread travel time over clients you do not have, Phooey! Spread travel time out on bids because you already have clients in the area? Phooey! Who's to say that client A dies and client B moves and client C decides to go with another company? Then client D is stuck with travel time and your margins might as well be flushed. Travel time applies to every customer...every time.
TGC....I will drive anywhere.....200 miles 1000 miles....doesnt matter, as long as I am making what I would for actual production.

[mdb landscaping]

congrats man. know you know its worth while driving the extra distance.

[brucec32]

I've found that sometimes adding in extra for travel and taking an otherwise out of your area account is not always wise. Why? Because unless they are in an unusually remote area, they do have alternatives closer by. This means that they may wise up to this fact and obtain a much lower quote later on, which means you lose the customer after a while. I'd rather take on a client that will be there for years if I do a good job.
People's budgets do get tight at times, and they do go looking for a better deal. If you're $96/month higher than average, they may well replace you sooner than later.

But, if you're desperate for work for NOW, I say go for it.

[kris]

Originally posted by TGCummings
Need your thoughts on this one.

($36/hour x 40 minutes drive time = $24 each trip x app. 4 trips/month = $96/month driving).


-TGC
One question... what about the months with 5 weeks???

[TGCummings]

Good question.

I base my rate off of a 4-week month and charge that rate 12 months out of the year, regardless of visits. Whether I'm there 5 times because of a long month, or 3 times because of rain, the rate stays the same. It averages out nicely and takes care of itself.

As for the long run, I'm willing to take the chance that they leave me later for someone working the route and charging less. If that happens, it saves me a trip every week, right? ;)

-TGC

[brucec32]

<<I base my rate off of a 4-week month and charge that rate 12 months out of the year, regardless of visits. Whether I'm there 5 times because of a long month, or 3 times because of rain, the rate stays the same. It averages out nicely and takes care of itself. >>

Your method seems pretty common. And it's true that it does usually even out in the end. I just noticed that the guy I started in the biz working for did that and had constant disputes with customers because of it. It seems some people tend to forget the extra times you come out and remember the times you skip. I price per-mow specifically to avoid that kind of problems.

That said, I'm surprised how many guys are able to sell year round, weekly service to clients. More power to them, but I do know that because of the bigger budget involved, you generally have to target nicer properties with affluent, more demanding clients. That also means you have to "do it all" in many cases. That usually means you have to hire people to handle the little things (weeding, mulching beds, trimming hedges, picking up sticks, etc)

Personal preference, but I prefer "mow, blow, n' go". I was never able to charge enough to make the luxury homes profitable. Lots of people can hack $120-$150 a month, but a lot fewer can afford $400 a month. Since I find the sales aspect of this boring, I stick to the easy-to-get customers.