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View Full Version : T140 or ASV RC50?


docholiday
09-24-2007, 10:32 PM
Well this is my first post,and its probably going to be a duesy.
I am going to buy a ctl soon, i have 2 dealer choices
1 bobcat
2 asv
i used a T140 a few weekends ago and it got the job done nicely.
but the rc 50 seems to be a great machine also,
in your folks experince which machine is going to be the one to buy?
both of the dealers are fantastic, just which machine is better.
thankyou

DiyDave
09-24-2007, 10:49 PM
There are several threads titled ctl vs skidloader. I have an ASV RC30 and love it. Although it is small, it packs quite a punch, traction wise. There are a few videos at Mabie Bros equipment.com, as well as a u-tube match up between a ASV and a Bobcat, I think. The ASV wiped out the Bobcat, even though it weighs less and has less horsepower than the unit it was pushing. The long and short of it is that the ASV has better balance, and a suspended (NOT rigid) track system, that allows it to flex a little, and stay in better contact with the ground. Good Luck, and welcome to the site!:waving:

Digdeep
09-25-2007, 12:52 AM
I think you should definitely demo both of them. Preferably on the same job in similar conditions. I own a RC50 and in my opinion it is much quicker, more productive and smoother than the even larger and heavier T180. I used to sell Bobcats, still own one (S220) and personally use my RC50 almost 90% of the time. Demo, demo, demo.

You should visit the website to view the video that DiyDave speaks about. It shows the RC50 pushing a T250 backwards in the snow even though it has close to 30hp less and weighs 3,000lbs lighter. It should give you some idea of the traction it can put to the ground. Good luck.

cddva
09-25-2007, 04:42 AM
I own an RC-50 and believe for it's weight/size it delivers alot of pushing power and is very nimble and quick. I think the videos the others referred to point out the difference between a suspended undercarriage vs solid undercarriage in slippery conditions. Given your location, I assume your machine will see some snow clearing duty and some really muddy conditions with some frequency, in which case the suspended undercarriage maybe worth the extra replacement cost's. I've seen others post here that their solid undercarriage ctl's don't maintain traction in the snow. Good Luck!

docholiday
09-25-2007, 08:04 AM
i saw a video of a sr 80 pushing a t 250 backwards in the snow, i didnt find one with the rc50 pushing a t 250.

Tigerotor77W
09-25-2007, 02:34 PM
docholiday: http://www.mbtractor.com/challenge1.html

docholiday
09-25-2007, 08:01 PM
thanks for the intel, very interesting video.

YardPro
09-25-2007, 08:10 PM
i like asv's they are good machines.

it really depends on what you do with them. I have a friend that had a asv rc60 and it would not pick up a pallet of sod, or block.


as for the video, the main difference is the track pattern. the asv has a much better track design that puts more track surface on hard ground that the bobcat. that is why it pushed it like it did. it could not do that to the bobcat if the tracks were the same. the track design is not as agressive and is not as good in mud, etc.

Lawnworks
09-25-2007, 08:25 PM
An rc60 won't pick up a pallet of sod??

DiyDave
09-25-2007, 08:33 PM
The reason the ASV wins, is that the tracks can flex, a little, under load, and stay in contact with the ground. Maybe that the track tread is better, too.

Digdeep
09-25-2007, 10:03 PM
I agree with DiyDave and think it is because the suspension allows the chassis of the machine to flex up while the entire track stays on the ground. The tracked bobcats and other machines with rigid undercarriages act much like a skidsteer does when it starts to lift the front tires off of the ground when they are digging. The front part of the tracks aren't providing much traction because there isn't much/any weight on the front.

I've seen RC50s lift and carry sod pallets and the RC60 has the same ROC.

SiteSolutions
09-25-2007, 11:21 PM
If I didn't spend so much time on rocks and crushed stone, I would probably go for the ASV. It all depends on what you will use it for, but if you can get the price right, the ASV may be your machine.

If you are going to do much work pushing gravel, crushed stone, or working on and around broken concrete or large rocks / boulders, the ASV dealer himself will probably tell you to look somewhere else. The Cat dealer here steered me away from their CTLs which have ASV undercarriages.

Strawbridge Lawn
10-25-2007, 03:40 PM
CAT B SERIES 2 CTL'S have an improved undercarriage and a reap steel wheel to reduce wear and maintenance. Would like to see a RC-50 with the new UC.

Digdeep
10-25-2007, 07:52 PM
My ASV salesman came back from ASVs annual dealer meeting a couple weeks ago and mentioned that they were coming out with a special rear wheel as well and some sort of "undercarriage package" that allows owners to replace everything except the drive motor. He told me that if I replaced my RC50 undercarriage at my current hour meter mark my cost would come out to around $5 an hour including the labor to install it. I'm waiting to see details. I imagine it would be less at 2,000 hours.

It's funny, but I've never really had a problem with gravel or stone and I've used my machine to spread lots of it for drive ways, flower gardens, etc. I have replaced my four rear idlers, but they are the only wheels I have replaced in over 1,500 hours of use. Everything else is still original, and I think I'll get close to 2,000 hours out of the tracks and more out of the bogies.

Strawbridge Lawn
10-25-2007, 08:36 PM
That is encouraging to hear. The Rc-50 U/C is exactly that of the
247B, a beefier unit. I hope the series 2 mods to the CAT U/C finf there
way back to ASV. I have replaced a bunch of roller wheels as well about 80 hours ago, and two right side drive motore along with the main hydro pump. Actually, the machine is darn near new when it comes to the primary wear parts.
I was told that the CAT computers will no longer have ASV parts in their system next year. Hmm. Parting of the ways it seems. The new CAT B2 Series 247's have (from what I understand) CAT inspired mods to the U/c. I have seen them and they make sense. Steel rear wheels?? About time!
Open motor faces to keep debris out of housing.
I will purchase either a 50 or a 247B series 2 next..Not sure which. Work in tight places and no machine has better rear visibility than the ASV's. Bottom line, I have used the rc-30 like a 50, and paid for the wear. Still worth it.

Digdeep
10-27-2007, 09:33 PM
The way I understand it is that CAT and ASV still have an agreement in place in that ASV still builds their undercarriages and supplies their parts unless someone knows different. Tigerotor77W?

I also know that ASV just released a new RC60 that is two speed (11mph), has a steel hood, and has the same changes to the undercarriage that the RC50 now has. I have over 1,500 hours on my RC50 and think it is the best thing going, but who doesn't want more hp and speed? I can't wait to demo one.

Strawbridge Lawn
10-28-2007, 08:08 AM
That is good to hear. If an ASV dealer was closer I would go with ASV, but
our local CAT Dealer is likely where I will be buying next time. I will buy the warranty package per advice of others who have experienced U/C wear issues.

Tigerotor77W
10-29-2007, 02:37 PM
Sorry for the late reply... I was checking to see whether I could say anything. Even I have to cover my back sometimes. :)

The Cat UC is still an ASV design at heart, but there are several changes to the ASV design that aren't found on ASV machines. Metal face seals on all the wheel hubs and planetary drive motors are the two biggest features, I'd say; the latter means that there is no longer a carrier bearing.

Strawbridge Lawn
12-22-2007, 09:36 AM
My New Years wish list: An Asv Dealer close so I can get either a 50 or 60 with the new U/C.. I won't buy another Rubber track machine without the improved design. I talked with a guy in MA recently and he has a 257B and shows wear on the U/C at 250 hours. Now he admits he runs it hard, but still I thought it should be tougher than that.
A commetn was posted here about an rc-60 not being able to pick up a pallet of sod.. That is hogwosh.. An Rc-30 cannot and I bet a 60 SY pallet would be tough for a 50 as well, but dooable by removing a few roles. My Rc-30 can lift about 20-25 SYDS.
Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year and may Santa leave a new Rc-60 on top of my tree.

bobcat_ron
12-22-2007, 12:13 PM
The new improved design is really nice, roller wheel replacement can be done in 1 hour with common tools- jack up the machine, back off the track tension, pop out the 8-10 bolts on the affected roller/idler, replace and tighten the bolts to 35 ft/lbs in a star pattern and retension the track, very simple.

Also the rear rollers are steel, big difference now.

Tigerotor77W
12-22-2007, 12:37 PM
[Edit: posted totally in the wrong thread!]

ksss
12-22-2007, 07:52 PM
The TK140 is a powerful machine. They are utilitarian as far as cab comfort. They will not ride like a suspended machine and the cab is not as quiet. They are however near bulletproof and are very productive. If you planned on really using your CTL in tough conditions the TK would be your machine. If the work you do is more forgiving and your comfort level is more of a concern the ASV would be suitable.

Digdeep
12-22-2007, 08:20 PM
ksss...I agree that the T140 is a good machine (I think it's Takeuchi's best machine), but I think the thread is about the Bobcat T140.

ksss
12-22-2007, 08:25 PM
Good point, maybe I should take this Winter season and finish that Hooked on Phonics tutorial that I paid good money for.