PDA

View Full Version : turf magazine and spanish...


wahlturfcare
09-25-2007, 10:56 AM
i was wondering why they have to put a article in spanish and english into the magazine? I would prefer not to have the spanish one. I feel that if they are over here, they need to learn to read in english.
other than that, i feel that it is a great magazine.

I would like to see comparison of mowers on how they cut from the midwest more instead of the east coast or the south.

lawnman_scott
09-25-2007, 11:49 PM
It is america. Odd that a magazine like that will publish in a foreign language, but no advertizement for a video or cassette to learn the english language. They are just looking out for #1 I guess.

kathyu
09-26-2007, 05:21 PM
We've been asked this many times. Part of the reason for running a spanish article alongside it's English counterpart is to encourage spanish employees to learn English.
If you notice, most of the articles are safety related and we feel it is important that while they are learning English, they have access to articles on safety that they can understand.

But stay tuned.....I'll forward your concerns to David and he will get back if I have mispoken the company position or if he would like to add anything.:usflag:

mojob
09-26-2007, 10:39 PM
This was my main reason I had for not renewing my subscription. They're condoning what I feel is a big problem here in the U.S.

corey4671
09-26-2007, 10:44 PM
We've been asked this many times. Part of the reason for running a spanish article alongside it's English counterpart is to encourage spanish employees to learn English.
If you notice, most of the articles are safety related and we feel it is important that while they are learning English, they have access to articles on safety that they can understand.

But stay tuned.....I'll forward your concerns to David and he will get back if I have mispoken the company position or if he would like to add anything.:usflag:

Hey how about this...the same way the immigration rush that came through Ellis Island, legally mind you, learned English...FULL IMMERSION!!! HOW will printing the same article in Espanol and English side by side encourage someone to learn English? Printing the article in Spanish is not aiding these people to learn English, it is ENABLING THEM to NOT learn it!! Oh wait, we wouldn't want to make someone feel..GASP..unCOMFORTABLE!! God forbid!! Keep it up and the foriegn language will BE English
I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!:usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag: :usflag:

txgrassguy
09-27-2007, 01:48 AM
Kathy, I for one, am glad that Turf Magazine is publishing these articles in Spanish. The stance of providing an access to informative articles, in a language more easily understood by the reader is a great help towards bridging that same language barrier.
I know some of my crew members appreciate this feature and it is always a popular item for them.
I would, however, like to address the "immersion" point by a previous poster - as a second generation American, on my father's side, listening to the stories as recounted by my father and uncles, none of whom spoke English yet through perseverance and reading translated articles into their NATIVE language of Croatia, then reading the same information in English greatly sped their comprehension of what is considered the most difficult language in the world to learn.

Americal Vet
09-27-2007, 10:25 AM
I agree with some of the previous post's in principle, but am appreciative of the safety articles posted in Spanish. Especially noteworthy was in last months issue. If it makes a person stop and think, or even saves a life, then it is truly worth it.

Like most products we use, there is usually multi-lingual instructions, or safety warnings printed on the box or manual.

Again, though I agree that persons that choose to live somewhere other than their native country should learn the language, TURF magazine has a broad readership, and therefore has to print for the benefit of the masses. Just my .02:waving:

kathyu
09-27-2007, 01:09 PM
Unfortunately, America doesn't have an official language. I would love to see English made the official language of our country, but that is a discussion best held in the polital, off-topic forum.

I agree that people that choose to come to America to work, live and take advantage of all the wonderful things that make America such a great country, should learn English. We hope that these articles encourage that process as well as provide much needed safety information along the way.

I'm sad to hear that some of you don't renew your subscriptions based on one particular section of the magazine. That statement has never really made sense to me. But then, I don't suppose it has to. We offer our subscribers a tremendously informative and sometimes entertaining publication, FREE of charge, if you can't skip over the sections that you dislike, well, we are sorry to see you go, but it's probably best for both of us.

Thank you to all that can see the reasoning for our position and/or simply skip over the article if it offends you. As always, it's our readers that make our magazine the huge success that it is, and we truly appreciate your subscriptions!
(Now if you HAVEN'T renewed in the past year, please do so today! hehehe)

:usflag: :usflag:

Big Bad Bob
09-27-2007, 08:34 PM
We've been asked this many times. Part of the reason for running a spanish article alongside it's English counterpart is to encourage spanish employees to learn English.
If you notice, most of the articles are safety related and we feel it is important that while they are learning English, they have access to articles on safety that they can understand.

But stay tuned.....I'll forward your concerns to David and he will get back if I have mispoken the company position or if he would like to add anything.:usflag:

Plus, the advertisers, who drive the magazine by the way, love the idea of the spanish speakers looking at their equipment.

ironman1994
09-27-2007, 11:18 PM
This was my main reason I had for not renewing my subscription. They're condoning what I feel is a big problem here in the U.S.

I agree with you, I am contemplating on cancelling my subscription. What I cant believe is that they are now allowing businesses here in the DFW area accept pesos.

mojob
09-28-2007, 10:56 AM
I agree with you, I am contemplating on cancelling my subscription. What I cant believe is that they are now allowing businesses here in the DFW area accept pesos.
Is that why we're seeing so many Texans moving to CO? I moved here from south FL. I lived there for 40 years and knew it was time to move when my son was one of only a few kids in his first grade class that spoke english. Makes me sick.

TurfEditor
10-01-2007, 12:28 PM
Kathy has explained our policy on why we publish a Spanish language article.

Anyone who thinks our advertisers give a rat's @ss about whether or not we publish a Spanish article doesn't know what they're talking about. We've run this feature for several years -- a few companies have tried putting in Spanish ads; all have dropped out. Just recently, Toro has "sponsored" the article -- which essentially means that they pay for the paper and ink. There is no big profit in it.

Anyone who would actually cancel a free magazine subscription to one of the leading publications covering their profession has to be one of the most closed-minded persons on the planet. So you disagree. It's one freakin' page! Are you so afraid of those who disagree with your views -- or so angry about the fact that people might hold a different view from you -- that your solution is to SHUT OFF all exposure to any dissenting opinions? IMHO, THAT is what is primarily the most important problem facing this country today -- We have become a nation of people who sit on opposite sides of the fence on every issue, yelling and screaming at each other over the fence. If you don't like something -- if you don't get your way on every little thing -- throw a witty barb over your shoulder and walk away, comfortable and proud of your righteous indignation. All the while, we become more and more polarized over more and more issues.

I happen to agree that people who come to this country should be able to display a basic understanding and ability to communicate in English before they are allowed to become citizens. I would support such a law. But it is NOT the law. Should I simply shut my mind to anyone with an opposing view? Should I go so far as to make sure i am not even exposed to anything that might hint at disagreeing with my view? How small!

Re: "Official" Languages.
If you guys feel that strongly about having English be the official language of the United States, then do something about it. Prepare to be called all kinds of ugly names by the left, though.

There are two things you should consider that are not opinions; these are facts:
1- The percentage of (legal) Spanish-speaking immigrants who speak and read English is HIGHER than the rates of other ethnic groups who came here in the last century.
2 - There is NO official language in the U.S. Until there is, American citizens whose primary language is other than English have the right to communicate with their government in a language they understand.

I just finished writing an editorial for the next issue of TURF on the subject of immigration - legal and illegal. Watch for it. I'm sure it will piss someone off. ;)

David C.
Exec. Editor

mojob
10-03-2007, 02:04 AM
Kathy has explained our policy on why we publish a Spanish language article.

Anyone who thinks our advertisers give a rat's @ss about whether or not we publish a Spanish article doesn't know what they're talking about. We've run this feature for several years -- a few companies have tried putting in Spanish ads; all have dropped out. Just recently, Toro has "sponsored" the article -- which essentially means that they pay for the paper and ink. There is no big profit in it.

Anyone who would actually cancel a free magazine subscription to one of the leading publications covering their profession has to be one of the most closed-minded persons on the planet. So you disagree. It's one freakin' page! Are you so afraid of those who disagree with your views -- or so angry about the fact that people might hold a different view from you -- that your solution is to SHUT OFF all exposure to any dissenting opinions? IMHO, THAT is what is primarily the most important problem facing this country today -- We have become a nation of people who sit on opposite sides of the fence on every issue, yelling and screaming at each other over the fence. If you don't like something -- if you don't get your way on every little thing -- throw a witty barb over your shoulder and walk away, comfortable and proud of your righteous indignation. All the while, we become more and more polarized over more and more issues.

I happen to agree that people who come to this country should be able to display a basic understanding and ability to communicate in English before they are allowed to become citizens. I would support such a law. But it is NOT the law. Should I simply shut my mind to anyone with an opposing view? Should I go so far as to make sure i am not even exposed to anything that might hint at disagreeing with my view? How small!

Re: "Official" Languages.
If you guys feel that strongly about having English be the official language of the United States, then do something about it. Prepare to be called all kinds of ugly names by the left, though.

There are two things you should consider that are not opinions; these are facts:
1- The percentage of (legal) Spanish-speaking immigrants who speak and read English is HIGHER than the rates of other ethnic groups who came here in the last century.
2 - There is NO official language in the U.S. Until there is, American citizens whose primary language is other than English have the right to communicate with their government in a language they understand.

I just finished writing an editorial for the next issue of TURF on the subject of immigration - legal and illegal. Watch for it. I'm sure it will piss someone off. ;)

David C.
Exec. Editor
It seems to me that you're the one doing all the yelling from your side of the fence. I simply walked away. "Prepare to be called all kinds of ugly names by the left, though". It's statements like this that gave me another reason not to renew my subscription. I didn't sign up for your mag to get a rightwing slant on the world. I'm referring to the editorial on global warming. Any farther to the right and it would be coming back around. You guys are all about big business (your advertisers). How does that help me and probably 90% of your other readers? Most of us run small "mom and pop" type outfits and we turn to your mag for info on the latest, greatest products and ways to run our businesses more effectively not to get a conservative's view on Al Gore and global warming. Your last statement says it all. I believe you want to piss people off. People with different views than yourself. I just noticed who I was writing to. You're the rightwing editor that caused me to rethink the whole "free subscription" thing. Like they say, "there's no such thing as a free lunch". To get your mag, a tree had to die. To read your mag, a reader must wade through your fertilizer. I like trees but I hate fertilizer. My reason for not renewing, in a nutshell.

Charles
10-03-2007, 08:36 AM
We get this all the time in the local paper. People don't like some of the articles the paper prints and they just have to write in and make a big deal over cancelling. I doubt if they ever cancel. Newspapers and magazines are written for a Variety of interest. People should realize that and over look what they don't like. There are a lot of Spanish channels on Cable TV and Satellite and I doubt if people are cancelling their subscription to those outlets. This does not mean any of these outlets are promoting Spanish speaking over English. Many public service jobs prefer to hire bi linguals(Cops etc). Until state and federal laws are changed its just the nature of the beast.

TurfEditor
10-03-2007, 10:48 AM
Mojob -

Yes . . . I am the EDITOR . . . part of my job is to EDITORialize. By definition, that means I get to express my opinion. I usually use around 500 - 700 words in each issue. Surely you can handle 700 words you disagree with.

As far as me being the one shouting . . . I guess you missed all of the editorials where I let others express their views, or where I mention my respect for someone whose views I disagree with. I will discuss and debate with any person who uses proper manners.

I do not have a "right wing" attitude on global warming. I have a scientific attitude. There is much, legitimate science that shows results contrary to what the media reports (and I have had thousands of readers write to me for the source science that i used to write those editorials . . . were you one of them?). Not only is this information not reported, those who bring it up are ridiculed, marginalized, and in some cases, respected scientists have either resigned their positions or even been dismissed. I would like to know why this is. I would like to have ALL of the science presented, so that the true situation can eventually be assessed. I don't see why this is "right" or "left5" wing.

As far as Al Gore is concerned, the man is a liar and too much in love with his own "celebrity." There are so many inaccuracies, misrepresentations, omittions and downright lies in his book/movie, it is no wonder that he is mostly listened to by the Hollywood crowd. Again . . . this is not a "right wing" opinion. It is simply an observation of fact. (You want an example? Go try to find the island he talks about where the islanders had to move because of rising ocean levels. You won't, because it doesn't exist.)

I have no problem with you for holding your opinions, as long as you treat people with opposing views with respect. Why is it that I should not be allowed the same courtesy?

DC

traviswalker007
11-27-2007, 11:59 AM
Ok, Items Are Printed On Boxes In Diffrent Languages Beacuse Those Items Are Usen In Fiffrent Country's...if Turf Wants To Go Spanish Thats Fine But Send The Magazine To Mexico. There Taking Enough Of The Work Here Already And They Cant Even Speak Our Language, Its Not Our Job To Learn Theres..this Is Our Amercia Plain And Simple. If Its A Safty Issue..then They Should Not Be Employed By You In The First Place But Thats Your Choice. Do U Think For One Second If We Hooped The Fence And Went To Mexico To Get A Job...they Are Going To Train Us In English.......not!!! Have You Been To Mexico..there Is Not One Thing In English..not One, So Give Us A Break And Lets Get Real

Big Bad Bob
11-27-2007, 12:41 PM
Ok, Items Are Printed On Boxes In Diffrent Languages Beacuse Those Items Are Usen In Fiffrent Country's...if Turf Wants To Go Spanish Thats Fine But Send The Magazine To Mexico. There Taking Enough Of The Work Here Already And They Cant Even Speak Our Language, Its Not Our Job To Learn Theres..this Is Our Amercia Plain And Simple. If Its A Safty Issue..then They Should Not Be Employed By You In The First Place But Thats Your Choice. Do U Think For One Second If We Hooped The Fence And Went To Mexico To Get A Job...they Are Going To Train Us In English.......not!!! Have You Been To Mexico..there Is Not One Thing In English..not One, So Give Us A Break And Lets Get Real

What language is this written in?

traviswalker007
11-27-2007, 01:25 PM
spanglish bob.....spanglish...get use to it!!!! lol

kathyu
11-27-2007, 05:16 PM
Ok, Items Are Printed On Boxes In Diffrent Languages Beacuse Those Items Are Usen In Fiffrent Country's...if Turf Wants To Go Spanish Thats Fine But Send The Magazine To Mexico. There Taking Enough Of The Work Here Already And They Cant Even Speak Our Language, Its Not Our Job To Learn Theres..this Is Our Amercia Plain And Simple. If Its A Safty Issue..then They Should Not Be Employed By You In The First Place But Thats Your Choice. Do U Think For One Second If We Hooped The Fence And Went To Mexico To Get A Job...they Are Going To Train Us In English.......not!!! Have You Been To Mexico..there Is Not One Thing In English..not One, So Give Us A Break And Lets Get Real

WOW. I guess that just about says it all. :dizzy:

DBL
11-27-2007, 05:26 PM
I have a couple guys who are not completely fluent in english yet. I love giving them the article to read in spanish and english...I dont know which one they read more but any helpful information i can get to them no matter what language its in is good for me

GreenT
11-27-2007, 05:38 PM
WOW. I guess that just about says it all. :dizzy:


It is scary when the underbelly of the beast is exposed, isn't it?

mojob
11-27-2007, 05:56 PM
I think it's funny that you assume these guys can read Spanish to begin with. Don't you think these guys could do better than a laborers job if they were educated in the first place? If they were lucky enough to receive an education in Mexico, they were probably taught English as well. So, why does everything have to be in spanish and english? :dizzy:

capelawncare.com
11-27-2007, 07:48 PM
Personally i think it sucks. I also think it sucks, that I have to press 1 for english every time I pick up the phone. America is made up of Immigrants. Immigrants who came to this country for a better life. When they came here, they assimilated to our culture.

Why now must we assimilate to theirs?

kathyu
11-28-2007, 07:45 AM
Personally i think it sucks. I also think it sucks, that I have to press 1 for english every time I pick up the phone. America is made up of Immigrants. Immigrants who came to this country for a better life. When they came here, they assimilated to our culture.

Why now must we assimilate to theirs?

No one is asking you to learn Spanish! But, as has been pointed out before, English is not the official language of America. Should it be? Absolutely, but rather than complain here on a lawnsite forum, how about taking the time to write your representatives and demand they do something worthwhile while in power? Demand that they make English the official language, then you will have an arguement. In the meantime, press one for english and skip over the spanish article in Turf (though you might find it useful to read the English version)

traviswalker007
11-28-2007, 11:43 AM
Not The Official Languagae?? Wow, So What Color Is Our Flag?? And If Thats The Case Why Cant U Be President If U Were Not Born In The U.s?? Does Our Commander And Chief Speak English Or Is That A Big Cnn Cover Up. English Is The Official Language Of The United States

capelawncare.com
11-28-2007, 12:17 PM
No one is asking you to learn Spanish! But, as has been pointed out before, English is not the official language of America. Should it be? Absolutely, but rather than complain here on a lawnsite forum, how about taking the time to write your representatives and demand they do something worthwhile while in power? Demand that they make English the official language, then you will have an arguement. In the meantime, press one for english and skip over the spanish article in Turf (though you might find it useful to read the English version)

Kathy,

Believe me I have written to our elected officials. The problem lies with pandering. Our elected officals pander to the hispanic vote. They have provided a government that does everything for them in spanish. Whats the incentive to assimilate?

Corporations pander to hispanics. Press 1 for English, is a prime example. Again where is the incentive to assimilate?

If our government and our industries stopped pandering, perhaps English would be our national language.

Personally I find it a sad commentary that our polititians, have sold our culture for the price of a few votes, and our businesses have sold our culture for an increase in profits.

Perhaps if the people we do business with and the people we elect had the principles not to sell out our culture, We would not have to press 1 for english! Nor would we spend countless billions of dollars translating our language.

Sadly it is people like yourself that facilitate our cultural decline by saying skip the article, and keep pressing 1 for english.

kathyu
11-28-2007, 12:51 PM
Capelawncare,

Should have's don't solve the problem. The problem is correct as you have stated it. Our elected officials don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by not accomadating them. Believe me, I agree with you on this.

I don't, personally ask people to press one for spanish on my phone, they either talk to me in English, or we don't talk.
BUT, Turf magazine is a product for the green industry. A large portion of that industry is hispanic, do you really see a huge amount of harm being done by providing them with safety instructions that they can clearly understand? We are a service industry, keeping people safe is of major concern and importance.

traviswalker,
The more you write, the more you prove that you don't know what you are talking about. I, therefore, won't even bother with a response.

traviswalker007
11-28-2007, 03:27 PM
Ooh So Now Its About Safety In Spanish!! Wow That Changes Everything. Its Obvious Your Protecting The Magazine Company So Ill Tell You What Why Not Just Offer It In Spanish And See How Many Subscriptions You Get..oooh Wait Its Free, Well Then Convert All The Sales Adds Over To Spanish And See How Much Feed Back U Get, My Guess Is You Would Probably Go Broke. The Point Im Trying To Make And Dont Respond If You Dont Want To I Really Dont Care, But The Point Is This. Yes Hispanics Make Up The Majority Of The Landscape Workforce, And Why Is That, Beacuse No One Will Hire A Amercian Beacuse They Require More Pay, And More Maintenance And Thus Require More Patience, Were On The Other Hand You Can Hire Hispanics At Half The Rate And They Wouldnt Complain Beacuse Theye Probably Are Illegal In The First Place, Not All Just Most. So In Essence Your Contributing To The Problem By Offering Hispanic Articles In An English Magazine For The Hard Working Amercian Landscape Contractor. Whats Next, U Going To Offer An H2b Program At Your Magazine For The Underprivliged Hispanic Who Wants To Be A Us Citizen?? The Last Thing I Wanna See In This Magazine Is An Article Written In Spanish, If It Continues Then I Will Find Another Source For Information.

traviswalker007
11-28-2007, 03:30 PM
Cathy,
The More You Write The More I Feel As Though Your Defending, So As It Is In All Cases What Ever Makes Your Proffit Soar, Even If You Have To Sell Out The English Language.

kathyu
11-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Cathy,
The More You Write The More I Feel As Though Your Defending, So As It Is In All Cases What Ever Makes Your Proffit Soar, Even If You Have To Sell Out The English Language.

Of course I'm defending. I work for this company and I am very proud of the products we produce. As David pointed out earlier, the spanish section doesn't produce any sort of profit, much less a "soaring" profit. The November issue (south version) is 74 pages, not counting cover and back. Of that 1 1/4 pages are in spanish, which leaves 72 3/4 pages of English only content. That's less than 2% of the magazine. I don't really call that a sell out. But as with so many other things in this world, discussing issues where facts get in the way of emotions is pointless. I am therefore done discussing this issue with you. If you chose to cancel your subscription because of less than 2% of the content, that is certainly your choice. You can email me at kupton@mrpllc.com and I will be happy to oblige you.

GreenT
11-28-2007, 07:13 PM
Of course I'm defending. I work for this company and I am very proud of the products we produce. As David pointed out earlier, the spanish section doesn't produce any sort of profit, much less a "soaring" profit. The November issue (south version) is 74 pages, not counting cover and back. Of that 1 1/4 pages are in spanish, which leaves 72 3/4 pages of English only content. That's less than 2% of the magazine. I don't really call that a sell out. But as with so many other things in this world, discussing issues where facts get in the way of emotions is pointless. I am therefore done discussing this issue with you. If you chose to cancel your subscription because of less than 2% of the content, that is certainly your choice. You can email me at kupton@mrpllc.com and I will be happy to oblige you.



You go girl. :rolleyes:

JonP
11-28-2007, 09:33 PM
You go girl. :rolleyes:


I try to be professional. I sometimes fail. :usflag:

Big Bad Bob
11-28-2007, 10:17 PM
Cathy,
The More You Write The More I Feel As Though Your Defending, So As It Is In All Cases What Ever Makes Your Proffit Soar, Even If You Have To Sell Out The English Language.

Why do you capitalize every single word???:dizzy:

Charles
11-29-2007, 09:06 AM
Most every product sold in the USA has 2 set of instructions--one for English and one for Spanish. To protest fully, you would have to quit buying everything:rolleyes:
You people complaining need to really research candidates and vote the ones who stand for what really matters to you. Most only seem to get fired up by religion, war, abortion and guns. Why not get fired up over illegal immigration and making English the official language? Nothing will change until a lot more Americans make that a priority. Big business will continue to rule and big/little business wants cheap labor. Big business contributes big money to pols campaigns. The problem with that is the candidate may change his or her mind when they get into office. W did just that on many subjects. Ok there is really no answer lol. The situation is hopeless and out of control. We are all doomed:cry:
No reason to single out Turf. The entire business world is doing it. Soon, Hispanics will be a huge voting block. I just hope they don't outlaw the English language:eek:

kathyu
11-29-2007, 10:08 AM
Up here in the frozen tundra, products are sold with English and French. Well, unless you go to Lowe's which has every sign in English and spanish which looks really out of place up here. Even alot of the traffic signs are bi-lingual.

:usflag:

Charles
11-29-2007, 10:15 AM
Ya, we do get some Frenchie translations here too. The whole world is becoming a blurr lol

kathyu
11-29-2007, 11:13 AM
It's that whole "community world" philosophy. One big happy family.

GreenT
11-29-2007, 11:28 AM
It's that whole "community world" philosophy. One big happy family.



Except for traviswalker007. I don't think he's feeling the love

Big Bad Bob
11-29-2007, 11:44 AM
It's that whole "community world" philosophy. One big happy family.
And the "love" goes to the family members who are willing to live in the greatest state of poverty.:usflag:

mojob
11-29-2007, 12:03 PM
And the "love" goes to the family members who are willing to live in the greatest state of poverty.:usflag:
I agree. Look at any poor country. What do they all have in common? Too many people. Too many squirrels going for the same nut. I can see it happening here in the near future if we keep allowing people to pour into this country.

As far as everything being written in multiple languages: I'm looking forward to the first lawsuit because a person couldn't read the minuscule instructions written on the pill bottle because they had to reduce the size of the print to fit in all the languages. I'm not usually a fan of the frivolous lawsuit, but this is one I can get behind.

kathyu
11-29-2007, 12:26 PM
Except for traviswalker007. I don't think he's feeling the love

No, traviswalker007 isn't feeling intune with the world community I don't think. Come on-GROUP HUG for travis! :dancing:

GreenT
11-29-2007, 12:38 PM
I agree. Look at any poor country. What do they all have in common? Too many people.


Funny, we are the 3rd most populous country in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

noriega
12-01-2007, 04:03 AM
For all you folks that think ENGLISH is from this country your are wrong ENGLISH originates from ENGLAND. Do your homework guys. America has only been around since 1776 right, thats only about 231 years or have you forgotten that your fore fathers came over on a boat trying to escape the injustice of their home land looking for a better future for their families and may remind you again they did not speak ENGLISH!! which seems to be the case today. I don't understand why you get so intimidated by the Spanish language which I would like to point out is another European language it comes from "Spain" not Mexico. So guys dont get so intimidated about all this language and cultural differences. Another thing to remember this land was stolen from the NATIVE AMERICANS so get over this English /Spanish battle this is a free country and it doesn't matter what you speak the bottom line is we are all human beings

mojob
12-01-2007, 12:50 PM
Funny, we are the 3rd most populous country in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
It's the number of people per square mile that's the problem. That ratio is still fairly low here, but look at Haiti for instance. You don't agree that the mass of humanity there could be the source of all their problems? :hammerhead:

Big Bad Bob
12-01-2007, 01:36 PM
For all you folks that think ENGLISH is from this country your are wrong ENGLISH originates from ENGLAND. Do your homework guys. America has only been around since 1776 right, thats only about 231 years or have you forgotten that your fore fathers came over on a boat trying to escape the injustice of their home land looking for a better future for their families and may remind you again they did not speak ENGLISH!! which seems to be the case today. I don't understand why you get so intimidated by the Spanish language which I would like to point out is another European language it comes from "Spain" not Mexico. So guys dont get so intimidated about all this language and cultural differences. Another thing to remember this land was stolen from the NATIVE AMERICANS so get over this English /Spanish battle this is a free country and it doesn't matter what you speak the bottom line is we are all human beings


Well, I'm native American and I guess I don't need to tell you what happened when we tried to tolerate the Europeans. Are you ready for a modern Trail of Tears? Don't think it could happen because of the constitution? Well, the Supreme court ruled that the removal of all Indians from East of the Mississippi was unconstitutional but it happened anyway. That's reality.

capelawncare.com
12-01-2007, 04:01 PM
For all you folks that think ENGLISH is from this country your are wrong ENGLISH originates from ENGLAND. Do your homework guys. America has only been around since 1776 right, thats only about 231 years or have you forgotten that your fore fathers came over on a boat trying to escape the injustice of their home land looking for a better future for their families and may remind you again they did not speak ENGLISH!! which seems to be the case today. I don't understand why you get so intimidated by the Spanish language which I would like to point out is another European language it comes from "Spain" not Mexico. So guys dont get so intimidated about all this language and cultural differences. Another thing to remember this land was stolen from the NATIVE AMERICANS so get over this English /Spanish battle this is a free country and it doesn't matter what you speak the bottom line is we are all human beings

Well for 231 years we have been speaking ENGLISH here in America. Every immigrant group that came here seeking a better life has learned to speak english, and has assimilated to our culture. With of course the exception of the Hispanics, who appearently feel it is their right to enter illegally, and have us assimilate to their culture.

I am not a racist, nor do I believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans who feel exactly as I do are racists. I believe that the majority of Americans could have cared less about Spanish and Illegal immigration, until just a few years ago when the Hispanic's started holding their marches, and demonstrations, demanding rights for people who entered this country illegally.

Personally i think our population is tired of seeing the Mexican flag wavied at protests demanding their rights as americans, and having to press 1 for English!

GreenT
12-01-2007, 04:24 PM
Does the U.S. have an official language?

You might be surprised that for more than 200 years, Americans have gotten by without declaring English their official language. English Only legislation first appeared in 1981 as a constitutional English Language Amendment but the measure never came to Congressional vote. Since 1981, 22 states have adopted various forms of Official English legislation, in addition to four that had already done so. Subtracting Hawai'i (which is officially bilingual with English and Hawaiian being the official languages) ) and Alaska (whose English-only initiative has been declared unconstitutional) leaves a total of 24 states with active Official English laws.

How many languages are spoken in the U.S.?

Far from being monolingual, the U.S. is a highly multilingual country. The number of languages spoken in the United States is 311. Of these, 162 are indigenous, and 149 are immigrant languages. An indigenous or autochthonous language is a language that is native to a region and spoken by indigenous peoples.

According to the Census Bureau, in 14 million U.S. households people speak a language other than English. One in five people over age 5 speaks a language other than English.

The Spanish language is the second-most common language in the country, spoken by almost 30 million people (or 12% of the population) in 2005. In Puerto Rico, both Spanish and English have the status of official language, and in New Mexico both languages have widespread usage. The United States holds the world's fifth largest Spanish-speaking population, outnumbered only by Mexico, Spain, Argentina, and Colombia.

Although many new Latin American immigrants are less than fluent in English, second-generation Hispanic Americans nearly all speak English fluently, while only about half still speak Spanish.

People of German ancestry make up the largest single ethnic group in the United States and the German language ranks fifth. Italian, Polish, and Greek are still widely spoken among populations descending from immigrants from those countries in the early 20th century, but the use of these languages are dwindling as older generations die out.

Starting in the 1970s and continuing until the mid 1990s, many people from the Soviet Union and later its constituent republics such as Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Uzbekistan have immigrated to the United States, causing Russian to become one of the minority languages in the United States.

Tagalog and Vietnamese have over one million speakers in the United States, almost entirely within recent immigrant populations.

There is also a small population of Native Americans who still speak their native languages, but these populations are dropping and the languages are almost never widely used outside of reservations. Hawaiian, although having few native speakers, is still used at the state level in Hawaii along with the English language. All other languages besides the English language are usually learned from immigrant ancestors or learned through some form of education.

traviswalker007
12-03-2007, 09:04 PM
Why do you capitalize every single word???:dizzy:

Just for u Bob!! i wouldnt want you to get confused!!

traviswalker007
12-03-2007, 09:05 PM
Except for traviswalker007. I don't think he's feeling the love

Well grenne T, when you get a buisness going with more than just a pushmower and dadys pick up truck, then maybe you will understand...

traviswalker007
12-03-2007, 09:07 PM
No, traviswalker007 isn't feeling intune with the world community I don't think. Come on-GROUP HUG for travis! :dancing:
Your prolly the one sitting in the truck at the border, getting them all in...how many work for your magazine???

GreenT
12-03-2007, 09:33 PM
Just for u Bob!! i wouldnt want you to get confused!!

Well grenne T, when you get a buisness going with more than just a pushmower and dadys pick up truck, then maybe you will understand...

Your prolly the one sitting in the truck at the border, getting them all in...how many work for your magazine???


Do I detect some hostility traviswalker007?

FYI, I'm over 50 and my parents have long departed our world but thanks for your concern.

BTW, please use the "Spell Check" button when you reply. It'll make it less painful to read your posts.

Big Bad Bob
12-04-2007, 12:35 AM
Just for u Bob!! i wouldnt want you to get confused!!

aW. aREN'T yA kIND? aREN'T yA kIND?

kathyu
12-04-2007, 10:09 AM
Your prolly the one sitting in the truck at the border, getting them all in...how many work for your magazine???

Yeah, I "prolly" am the one sitting at the Mexican border. It's a heck of a commute everyday from Vermont, but hey, someone has to do it.

I just did a run through the office and asked everyone if they were American's or illegal. Apparently we don't have any illegal immigrants working here.

:usflag::usflag::usflag: GO MRP! :usflag::usflag:

michiganlands
12-05-2007, 04:36 PM
I think we are missing the underlying point. Those who do not like seeing the spanish language in America are afraid of change. But, would we like to give up what these people bring to our country? Spanish is a beautiful language, and Mexican women are too! So many of us have worked with immigrants, and I have had a very positive experience with them. I found out that I didn't know everything, and I never will. They probably found out the same.

DBL
12-05-2007, 07:33 PM
why is this thread still dragging is it that hard to skip over that whopping page and a half

kathyu
12-06-2007, 10:21 AM
why is this thread still dragging is it that hard to skip over that whopping page and a half

Thank you Tom!

GreenT
12-06-2007, 07:27 PM
why is this thread still dragging is it that hard to skip over that whopping page and a half


Apparently not.

Some members here seem to come to a screeching halt in their reading pattern when they hit that page. Something to do with linear thinking.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

ExcaliburLawnCare
12-15-2007, 12:56 AM
For all you folks that think ENGLISH is from this country your are wrong ENGLISH originates from ENGLAND. Do your homework guys. America has only been around since 1776 right, thats only about 231 years or have you forgotten that your fore fathers came over on a boat trying to escape the injustice of their home land looking for a better future for their families and may remind you again they did not speak ENGLISH!! which seems to be the case today. I don't understand why you get so intimidated by the Spanish language which I would like to point out is another European language it comes from "Spain" not Mexico. So guys dont get so intimidated about all this language and cultural differences. Another thing to remember this land was stolen from the NATIVE AMERICANS so get over this English /Spanish battle this is a free country and it doesn't matter what you speak the bottom line is we are all human beings

Actually (European) America has been around longer than since 1776, that was just when the Declaration of Independence was written, in English by the way. In fact Europeans my have been some of the first people to actually inhabit American soil along with the Phoenicians prior to the great immigration via the Bering Strait and Polynesian mariners. As one who has some Native American blood, I can honestly say that I forgive the Europeans for what they did. So, I am not offended by English speakers in this country nor do I have the desire to learn Welsh, Gaelic, or Cherokee. I will stick with English. However, if I desired to move to another country, I would spend at least 5 years before I went studying the language

mojob
12-15-2007, 12:33 PM
I was just thinking about this. There are probably just as many people in this country that only speak French as there are people that only speak Spanish(that are here legally). So, why doesn't the mag and all the other companies that currently print everything in English/Spanish print it in French as well? Because they're not catering to the people that are here legally. They know that there's 12-20 million potential customers out there. Legal or not, they don't care. They just want to make a quick buck. These companies are hoping for amnesty for these illegal immigrants. 12-20 million customers for them...12-20 million lowballing competitors for us. Think about it.

B_gerrits
12-18-2007, 10:13 PM
I agree. Look at any poor country. What do they all have in common? Too many people. Too many squirrels going for the same nut. I can see it happening here in the near future if we keep allowing people to pour into this country.

Finally someone who has some sense. It doesn't get any better these people multiply like rats. They may just take over our Country without firing a shot. Michaganlands says"Those who do not like seeing the spanish language in America are afraid of change. But, would we like to give up what these people bring to our country?" I say BS I am not afraid I am sick. Sick of these people invading our Country, Sick of these people stealing our jobs. Sick of paying taxes to give illegals education, and govt assistance. Sick of illegals waving a foriegn flag and demanding their rights. Sick of leftwingers that say I am wrong for not wanting them here and sick of those who give them jobs. Michaganlands asks "would we like to give up what these people bring to our country". I say Hell yes send them all home. Wake up Americia if something is not done about this we may not have a Country to worry about and we will be the ones doing the cheap labor.

Stillwater
12-22-2007, 12:29 PM
We've been asked this many times. Part of the reason for running a spanish article alongside it's English counterpart is to encourage spanish employees to learn English.
If you notice, most of the articles are safety related and we feel it is important that while they are learning English, they have access to articles on safety that they can understand.

But stay tuned.....I'll forward your concerns to David and he will get back if I have mispoken the company position or if he would like to add anything.:usflag:

that is crap...........

LawnTamer
12-22-2007, 01:43 PM
There is an old saying, "The narrower the mind, the broader the statements." Those who are somehow offended that Turf has one article, on safety, in the native language of a huge portion of our industry members, must be suffering from rectal cranial inversion.
Not to boast, but I speak 4 languages, reading a good translation and comparing it to your native language is one of the BEST ways to learn usage and context.

Don't believe me? If you've studied a foreign language, buy a novel in that language and in English. Read them together, first read the paragraph in English, then whatever language you are studying.

I find the articles fun and helpful, as I myself am trying to improve my Spanish. I am able to learn words, and phrases that relate to the industry.

Kathy and Dave, don't let a few speak for the majority.

BTW Isn't it interesting that someone would demand immigrants learn a language which he, (a native speaker) is not able to use at a 4th grade level? HHHHMMM

AI Inc
12-22-2007, 02:50 PM
Well, I'm native American and I guess I don't need to tell you what happened when we tried to tolerate the Europeans. Are you ready for a modern Trail of Tears? Don't think it could happen because of the constitution? Well, the Supreme court ruled that the removal of all Indians from East of the Mississippi was unconstitutional but it happened anyway. That's reality.

When did that happen? There are Native Americans in Ct, Ma , Maine, NY to this day.

Big Bad Bob
12-22-2007, 05:48 PM
When did that happen? There are Native Americans in Ct, Ma , Maine, NY to this day.

History lesson:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

http://ngeorgia.com/history/nghisttt.html


What DID they teach you in school?
Library has books on this subject. Google it. Use any search engine and you will come up with volumes on this subject. Whites should be very ashamed of this unconstitutional crime by Andrew Jackson. Yes. Andrew Jackson was a murderer of thousands of Cherokee.

Stillwater
12-22-2007, 07:57 PM
lawntamer calls me narrow minded because I do not accept the forced intrusion of a non English language into American society. So who is part of the problem? Lawntamer can you have a intelligent discussion in any of those 4 languages without name calling?

LawnTamer
12-22-2007, 08:33 PM
lawntamer calls me narrow minded because I do not accept the forced intrusion of a non English language into American society. So who is part of the problem? Lawntamer can you have a intelligent discussion in any of those 4 languages without name calling?

Sure, pick one.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Let's be serious here for a second, I tend to be sarcastic. If there had been an Al Gore 200 years ago to "invent" the internet, we could go back and dig up old threads and find similar threads about every wave of immigration. Immigration tends to come in waves, see. In Hebrew they are called Aliyahs. I don't think we have a word in English. Anyway, there is a logical reason for this. Economic failures caused by war, weather or civil unrest cause people to be poor and hungry, so some of them come here, they write their friends and family back home and offer them a place to stay and perhaps tell them about a job.

With each of these waves we see backlash, people who don't want "the forced intrusion" into American society, as you put it. What they don't realize is that all these immigrants assimilate. It takes time, but it happens. Typically the first generation learns fairly little English and tend to live in groups, little neighborhoods where they are surrounded by other families of the same ethnicity. The second generation will speak English fluently and be bi-lingual. The third generation will speak fluent English and very little of the native language. Hispanic immigrants follow the same pattern. 130 years ago we would have seen ads in papers in Chinese. We have had the same in Italian, 2 big waves and a small wave of Russian immigrants. Too many to name them all in a thread.

So seriously, how does it hurt ya'll if Turf mag. has one safety article in Spanish and English?

Big Bad Bob
12-22-2007, 08:43 PM
Sure, pick one.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Let's be serious here for a second, I tend to be sarcastic. If there had been an Al Gore 200 years ago to "invent" the internet, we could go back and dig up old threads and find similar threads about every wave of immigration. Immigration tends to come in waves, see. In Hebrew they are called Aliyahs. I don't think we have a word in English. Anyway, there is a logical reason for this. Economic failures caused by war, weather or civil unrest cause people to be poor and hungry, so some of them come here, they write their friends and family back home and offer them a place to stay and perhaps tell them about a job.

With each of these waves we see backlash, people who don't want "the forced intrusion" into American society, as you put it. What they don't realize is that all these immigrants assimilate. It takes time, but it happens. Typically the first generation learns fairly little English and tend to live in groups, little neighborhoods where they are surrounded by other families of the same ethnicity. The second generation will speak English fluently and be bi-lingual. The third generation will speak fluent English and very little of the native language. Hispanic immigrants follow the same pattern. 130 years ago we would have seen ads in papers in Chinese. We have had the same in Italian, 2 big waves and a small wave of Russian immigrants. Too many to name them all in a thread.

So seriously, how does it hurt ya'll if Turf mag. has one safety article in Spanish and English?

Maybe I'm a little lacking in immigration history. Some Hispanics, and their supporters, seem to want Americans to use Spanish. Could you give me a few examples of immigrants, in past history, trying to force Americans to behave the way the immigrants behave, and refusing to assimilate. Had there ever been a documented and concerted political and social effort to make America multi lingual and multicultural in the past?

tinman
12-22-2007, 10:32 PM
i was wondering why they have to put a article in spanish and english into the magazine? I would prefer not to have the spanish one. I feel that if they are over here, they need to learn to read in english.
other than that, i feel that it is a great magazine.

I would like to see comparison of mowers on how they cut from the midwest more instead of the east coast or the south.
It is their magazine and they "choose" to put the Spanish version in there. It is smart business to do so since a large number of lawn car ops are Latino. How does it affect you adversely?
I assure you most immigrants do learn to speak English or at least their next generation does. You know why... it benefits them to do so.

Stillwater
12-23-2007, 01:35 AM
So seriously, how does it hurt ya'll?

Easy Question lawntamer, as for the early nineteenth century immigrants, they came at a time when the population of the U.S. was one fifth of what it is today. Most were processed through Ellis Island in New York and were at least checked for diseases to some degree. LEARNING ENGLISH WAS A REQUIREMENT. There is no comparison to the twenty million illegal immigrants in this country today, not only taking jobs, but also taking advantage of and demanding more services and rights. The open border advocates and pandering politicians have no regard for the millions through out the world who have applied through legal means and have to wait indefinitely, jump through hoops and pay fees on top of fees and then wait some more, sometimes for years because they choose to abide by the laws of this country while other choose to break them and are rewarded generously once they get past the border and into the cities. That is how it hurts me, You hurt my country you hurt me.

Big Bad Bob
12-23-2007, 01:49 AM
Easy Question lawntamer, as for the early nineteenth century immigrants, they came at a time when the population of the U.S. was one fifth of what it is today. Most were processed through Ellis Island in New York and were at least checked for diseases to some degree. LEARNING ENGLISH WAS A REQUIREMENT. There is no comparison to the twenty million illegal immigrants in this country today, not only taking jobs, but also taking advantage of and demanding more services and rights. The open border advocates and pandering politicians have no regard for the millions through out the world who have applied through legal means and have to wait indefinitely, jump through hoops and pay fees on top of fees and then wait some more, sometimes for years because they choose to abide by the laws of this country while other choose to break them and are rewarded generously once they get past the border and into the cities. That is how it hurts me, You hurt my country you hurt me.

Some say that the fact that it is SO hard to get in legally that that is what is driving illegal immigration. Some say the requirements are too stringent. I say, so what? We have enough people here. There are no more open prairies and deserts to be populated. This ain't 1900. The way we are going is towards loss of sovereignty for all nations. As George Bush Sr. said, "New World Order". International courts will rule the entire human population of the world. This is real guys. But if that's the world you want left to your grandchildren, well, God help ya.

Stillwater
12-23-2007, 01:54 AM
It is their magazine and they "choose" to put the Spanish version in there. It is smart business to do so since a large number of lawn car ops are Latino. How does it affect you adversely?
I assure you most immigrants do learn to speak English or at least their next generation does. You know why... it benefits them to do so.

Tinman it is OK for Americans to be offended by a primarily English language publication printing Spanish articles, and their is nothing wrong with Those Americans pointing their displeasure of that fact out to the publication as long as it is done appropriately.

LawnTamer
12-23-2007, 02:01 AM
Easy Question lawntamer, as for the early nineteenth century immigrants, they came at a time when the population of the U.S. was one fifth of what it is today. Most were processed through Ellis Island in New York and were at least checked for diseases to some degree. LEARNING ENGLISH WAS A REQUIREMENT. There is no comparison to the twenty million illegal immigrants in this country today, not only taking jobs, but also taking advantage of and demanding more services and rights. The open border advocates and pandering politicians have no regard for the millions through out the world who have applied through legal means and have to wait indefinitely, jump through hoops and pay fees on top of fees and then wait some more, sometimes for years because they choose to abide by the laws of this country while other choose to break them and are rewarded generously once they get past the border and into the cities. That is how it hurts me, You hurt my country you hurt me.

So, Turf magazine printing 1 article in Spanish and English is somehow the cause of Illegal immigration? :dizzy::dizzy:

The reason Bush and the congress won't seal up the border is simple. U.S. industry likes cheap labor, and the Federal government is relying on millions of illegal immigrants paying into Social Security using false or stolen SS#s and never claiming a dime of it. It's not right, it is foolish, but that is the reason.

Stillwater
12-23-2007, 02:09 AM
So, Turf magazine printing 1 article in Spanish and English is somehow the cause of Illegal immigration? :dizzy::dizzy:

The reason Bush and the congress won't seal up the border is simple. U.S. industry likes cheap labor, and the Federal government is relying on millions of illegal immigrants paying into Social Security using false or stolen SS#s and never claiming a dime of it. It's not right, it is foolish, but that is the reason.



No turf is not to blame they just exhibit a symptom of the problem, and with your other statement you are dead on, it could not be truer

Big Bad Bob
12-23-2007, 02:12 PM
So, Turf magazine printing 1 article in Spanish and English is somehow the cause of Illegal immigration? :dizzy::dizzy:

The reason Bush and the congress won't seal up the border is simple. U.S. industry likes cheap labor, and the Federal government is relying on millions of illegal immigrants paying into Social Security using false or stolen SS#s and never claiming a dime of it. It's not right, it is foolish, but that is the reason.

Actually the borders are left porous so that a revolution doesn't happen in Mexico. Our border is a safety valve for the corrupt Mexican gov't. Why do you think their prez squawks so much at the thought of closing the border?

This is getting way off topic.

Michael J. Donovan
12-23-2007, 03:18 PM
I think this has run it's course and before it gets more any more off topic I thought it should be closed