Another sod installation question...

[2006Silverado]

I know this has been asked several times. But reading previous posts just made me more confused :hammerhead:

Will be my first sod installation. Customer has about 5000 sq. ft. area to cover. Right now it's just bare or has old pine straw down. The area is fairly level, not great, but not bad enough I think I can level it fairly well w/o any majore equipment.
It's Bermuda. Best price I've gotten so far is $95 per pallet. I'm planning on covering about 500 sq. ft. per pallet.

I have pricing from 2 landscaping companies in the area charge. One is $275/per pallet, the other charges $.55/sq. ft if prep, everything is done...$.45/sq. ft if only installing it.

My costs will be, renting a tiller, I have a landscape rake, roundup if that ends up being the best route to put that down first though I don't think there is enough green that it would be needed. So basically just the tiller and getting rid of whatever ends up being raked out. And topsoil, (would it be needed???) Also delivery cost for the sod ($50) or me picking it up myself.
One man installing, I've everything from about 1,000/sq ft. per day-2,500 sq ft. per day.

I was thinking about charging customer $.40-.45/sq ft. I thought this was reasonable, but after reading other threads on here it looks like I'm way under???
Am I on mark? Of course I want to make money, but it is my first, it's a customer I do favors for, so if I'm coming out at least $30-35/hr then I would be fine with that.

Thanks in advance!

[Smallaxe]

My son and I did about 1000sq ft. of sod in one day with some last minute prepping as we went. Price the prep separate from the laying down. Doing 5000k would be best done over at least 2 days maybe 3 if there are difficulties. 1000k was enough for me. Don't bring in more than you can lay in one day.
If you are going to till it may be a good idea to roll it then rough up the surface with a rake or something for the roots. Reason being - walking over soft dirt with a roll of sod really makes a mess of your bed and it will never be right.

[Lawnworks]

10 to 12 man hours for laying the sod and I would guess a couple hours in prep.

[PlatinumLandCon]

I'm doing about 450 sq ft in 2 areas (one 100sq ft, other 350 sq ft) for $450. Reason price is so high though is cause its a townhome with only back lane access with 36" gate to work area. Also, full prep with removal of rocks and debris is req'd.

[Lawnworks]

I'm doing about 450 sq ft in 2 areas (one 100sq ft, other 350 sq ft) for $450. Reason price is so high though is cause its a townhome with only back lane access with 36" gate to work area. Also, full prep with removal of rocks and debris is req'd.

Your price is more than fair... I have charged $630 for 450 sq ft. Small patch jobs can be a real pain.

[tthomass]

I had a lady call me today, she and her husband have prepped the area and spread topsoil......supposed to be 100% ready to lay two pallets 1200 SF.

They had the sod delivered today. My only expense is labor. I normally wouldn't touch the job because it has "Hi, I'm CHEAP" all over it but they are in a bind and its close to my jobsite that I will be finishing up on tomorrow. Calling her in the morning and telling her $500 to do the job, I supply nothing but labor and no prep. Should take about an hour.

If she blows a fuse, I don't care but she's got sod cut yesterday in need of going down. Or they are free to do it themselves.

Point being, don't look at what you are charging for the job, look at the net. Is it worth it in the end. Will I work an hour for $500, tip my guy $75 for the heck of it and tell him have a good weekend......sure. Will I work late on a Saturday, fight more traffic and take a loss on my part because they want me to, no.

[tthomass]

sod though........I've charged anywhere from $.80-$2+ per SF..........on average I would say $1. Sod is a cash cow.

[AWJ Services]

What part of Ga are you in?

I have some sod farms I use that will save you some money.

I do those for anywhere from 200 too 250 per plallet.

No topsoil needed.

I usually do not roundup the area except for certain circumstances.

Me and 2 guys it is a one day job.

I have around 850 in materials,500 dollars in labor and at 2500 dollars it will leave around 1100 dollars for me after fuel.

[Lawnworks]

sod though........I've charged anywhere from $.80-$2+ per SF..........on average I would say $1. Sod is a cash cow.

I take it you don't do large sod jobs... I can't imagine anyone paying $10,000 for 20 pallets of sod.

[JimLewis]

10 to 12 man hours for laying the sod and I would guess a couple hours in prep.

10-12 man hours for prep., soil amendments, grading, and installation of 5000 sq. ft. of sod???

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Lawnworks]

10-12 man hours for prep., soil amendments, grading, and installation of 5000 sq. ft. of sod???

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

uh yeah... 10-12 man hours JUST for laying 10 pallets of sod... I average one pallet per man hour especially on smaller 5-10 pallet jobs. W/o seeing the job there is no way to know how much prep, but it didn't sound like much so I estimated it at 4 man hours if you read my post correctly. Down in GA I don't think we have to amend as much as you do where you are from.

[JimLewis]

I take it you don't do large sod jobs... I can't imagine anyone paying $10,000 for 20 pallets of sod.

That pricing isn't too far out of line, for my area at least. On a larger job (e.g. 4000 or 5000 sq. ft.) the going rate around here would be around $.80 to $1.00 per sq. ft. For smaller jobs (e.g. 1000 or 2000 sq. ft.) $1.50 is more typical. For really small jobs (e.g. 1000 or less) then it can get up to $2.00 per sq. ft.

But REALLY big jobs are still around $.80 per sq. ft. or so around here. And you're right, most people don't land sod jobs that big because the price is more than most customers can afford. So most jobs that large are seeded, terraseeded, or hydroseeded.

This is all a regional thing too. Where I live, sod costs $.32 to $.38 per sq. ft. just for the sod itself. So charging anywhere in the $.50 price range means you loose money.

[AWJ Services]

This is all a regional thing too.

Exactly Right.



Down in GA I don't think we have to amend as much as you do where you are from.

Too most landscapers down here soil ammendmant means back dragging with the bucket.:)

[JimLewis]

Back to the original post.....

.....Will be my first sod installation. Customer has about 5000 sq. ft. area to cover. ......

I have pricing from 2 landscaping companies in the area charge. One is $275/per pallet, the other charges $.55/sq. ft if prep, everything is done...$.45/sq. ft if only installing it.

My costs will be, renting a tiller, I have a landscape rake, roundup if that ends up being the best route to put that down first though I don't think there is enough green that it would be needed. So basically just the tiller and getting rid of whatever ends up being raked out. And topsoil, (would it be needed???) Also delivery cost for the sod ($50) or me picking it up myself.


Let's stop there. First of all, yes, you would want to spray round-up on that old lawn, green or not. It may just be dormant, not dead. If you don't want that stuff to come back, I'd spray it first. Then wait at least 3 days but preferably a week before you came back and did anything else.

Topsoil? Yes. If you want to do it correctly. After the round-up did it's number, I'd cut down any vegitation to as low as my mower can go. So what's left is just 1/4" stubbles of vegitation everywhere. Then I'd install an inch or two of blended topsoil over the entire area. Then we rototill it into the existing soil to 10" depth. If there is an irrigation system, you may have to adjust that depth accordingly and flag out the heads to avoid them as well. I'd rototill at least 2 times, then grade. That done, the customer will have a great soil profile and the turfgrass will be very happy for years to come.

One man installing, I've everything from about 1,000/sq ft. per day-2,500 sq ft. per day.

That's after the prep. I described above is done. And being your first time, I'd say it's closer to 1500. Even my 2-man very strong and experienced crews lay maybe 2500 in a day. 'Course our sod here is pretty thick and heavy. I suppose that makes things go slower. But I think I'd plan on the lower end of that range if I were you.

I was thinking about charging customer $.40-.45/sq ft. I thought this was reasonable, but after reading other threads on here it looks like I'm way under???........
[/QUOTE]

Well, you're new. So you want to make sure you don't lose money. So that's normal to question yourself. And wise. I lost my butt on several jobs when I first started out because I had nobody to ask these kinds of questions too.

But that being said, you want to be careful planning your rates around what everyone else is doing. It took me a while. But I realized a long time ago not to worry at all what my competitors are charging. They have different expenses, different overhead, different production times, etc. It's good to keep an eye on your competition's rates, sure. I do that. But it's just something I keep in the back of my mind.

You need to charge whatever it is that makes YOU profit. This job will be a great one for you if you keep track of your numbers. Right down things like how much soil you used, how long it took you for the prep. work, and how many sq. ft. you were able to lay down per day. And next time you'll be much more prepared having this data.

One thing to keep in mind too is business growth. You're saying you just want to make $30 - $35 per man hour on this job. That's fairly low for any part of the country. And it may seem high to you, as you probably have very little overhead. But you need to plan for the future. One day, you want to buy a rototiller, instead of always having to rent them, right? And one day - as you grow - you'll eventually need to rent a shop....buy more trucks....buy more equipment....advertise more...etc. right? I mean, I am assuming you're wanting to grow your business. And if that's true, you need more than just the money it takes to make money on THIS job. You need some extra so you can start saving and planning for all that other stuff that you're eventually going to have to buy.

You might say to yourself, "Well, those other guys are big so they can afford to own a tiller. But I am small so I'll have to rent one." Well how do you think they got big enough to own one??? It wasn't by doing jobs where they just charged enough to do pay the bills for that week. It was by charging more than they needed to charge to cover that job and using the PROFIT to invest into growing the business.

Don't sell yourself short. Charge so that you are making MORE than you think you need to make at this point. Because trust me, growing this business is more expensive than you think.

[Lawnworks]

Back to the original post.....



Let's stop there. First of all, yes, you would want to spray round-up on that old lawn, green or not. It may just be dormant, not dead. If you don't want that stuff to come back, I'd spray it first. Then wait at least 3 days but preferably a week before you came back and did anything else.

Topsoil? Yes. If you want to do it correctly. After the round-up did it's number, I'd cut down any vegitation to as low as my mower can go. So what's left is just 1/4" stubbles of vegitation everywhere. Then I'd install an inch or two of blended topsoil over the entire area. Then we rototill it into the existing soil to 10" depth. If there is an irrigation system, you may have to adjust that depth accordingly and flag out the heads to avoid them as well. I'd rototill at least 2 times, then grade. That done, the customer will have a great soil profile and the turfgrass will be very happy for years to come.



That's after the prep. I described above is done. And being your first time, I'd say it's closer to 1500. Even my 2-man very strong and experienced crews lay maybe 2500 in a day. 'Course our sod here is pretty thick and heavy. I suppose that makes things go slower. But I think I'd plan on the lower end of that range if I were you.

I was thinking about charging customer $.40-.45/sq ft. I thought this was reasonable, but after reading other threads on here it looks like I'm way under???........

Well, you're new. So you want to make sure you don't lose money. So that's normal to question yourself. And wise. I lost my butt on several jobs when I first started out because I had nobody to ask these kinds of questions too.

But that being said, you want to be careful planning your rates around what everyone else is doing. It took me a while. But I realized a long time ago not to worry at all what my competitors are charging. They have different expenses, different overhead, different production times, etc. It's good to keep an eye on your competition's rates, sure. I do that. But it's just something I keep in the back of my mind.

You need to charge whatever it is that makes YOU profit. This job will be a great one for you if you keep track of your numbers. Right down things like how much soil you used, how long it took you for the prep. work, and how many sq. ft. you were able to lay down per day. And next time you'll be much more prepared having this data.

One thing to keep in mind too is business growth. You're saying you just want to make $30 - $35 per man hour on this job. That's fairly low for any part of the country. And it may seem high to you, as you probably have very little overhead. But you need to plan for the future. One day, you want to buy a rototiller, instead of always having to rent them, right? And one day - as you grow - you'll eventually need to rent a shop....buy more trucks....buy more equipment....advertise more...etc. right? I mean, I am assuming you're wanting to grow your business. And if that's true, you need more than just the money it takes to make money on THIS job. You need some extra so you can start saving and planning for all that other stuff that you're eventually going to have to buy.

You might say to yourself, "Well, those other guys are big so they can afford to own a tiller. But I am small so I'll have to rent one." Well how do you think they got big enough to own one??? It wasn't by doing jobs where they just charged enough to do pay the bills for that week. It was by charging more than they needed to charge to cover that job and using the PROFIT to invest into growing the business.

Don't sell yourself short. Charge so that you are making MORE than you think you need to make at this point. Because trust me, growing this business is more expensive than you think.

two guys can't lay more than 5 pallets in a day? My crew of two usually has 12-15 pallets done in a day.... just laying that is.

[JimLewis]

Maybe 6 pallets in a day. But that's being careful. All of our sod jobs we're doing on freshly amended, rototilled and graded soil. And although it's been raked and rolled and graded, it's still next to impossible not to mess it up as you go over the soil with wheelbarrows full of sod. So usually we'll have 3 guys on a decent sized sod job. One to bring the wheelbarrows full of sod. One to roll out and cut the sod, and another constantly re-raking and grading the areas the guy with the wheelbarrow is messing up. If there are only two guys, then one of them needs to stop what he's doing and do the re-raking and grading part. So it takes longer.

Sod is fairly thick and heavy here too. And soil is probably wetter and mushier here too. So it's all regional.

You're also forgetting that there will be sod to haul away and dump at the end of the day too. Unless you're magically gifted with the ability to order EXACTLY the amount of sod that will be used (figuring in all the waste from cuttings, etc.) So there's another hour or two driving to the dump and dumping off the 200 sq. ft. or so of extra sod you'll have at the end of the day. Gotta factor that in too. Or I guess you guys just do that part of the job and don't bill for it? I bill out for everything. Drive time to the job, drive time to the dump, dumping fees, drivetime back to the shop, everything.

Still, I have trouble believing anyone in any area can install 5000 sq. ft. of sod with just 2 guys in 5-6 hours. Could be. But you guys are definitely doing it totally different than we do it here.

I'll say this; if ANYONE here can come here to Oregon and install 5000 sq. ft. sod in 10-12 man hours I'll not only eat my hat but I'll pay for the entire trip, airfare, 4 star hotel, food, and $40 per hour. Because it would be a great laugh to see someone try. Of course, if you fail, you get nothing except a bunch of guys laughing at you as you leave with your tail between your legs.

[Lawnworks]

I guess it is just totally different conditions. Walking on our soil in GA does not mess it up at all. For instance, the job we did this week. We prepped the area the day before w/ a harley rake on my dingo and no ammendments were necessary... all topsoil. The next day my guys laid 10 pallets from 8-2 including lunch and cutting. I actually did estimate it spot on, but if there was any to haul off it would be loaded in the truck and dumped on my land at the end of the day.

On another job the week before, 3 guys laid 20 pallets of sod from 8-6 including lunch, cutting, and clean-up(loading pallets, sticks, in my flatbed dump).

On another job a month before, 5 guys laid 38 pallets of sod including cutting and clean-up starting at 8 finishing at 6.

I am guessing the conditions are completely different. Our pallets are 500 sq ft and weigh about 2000 lbs. Alot of times the guys will use my Cat 248 to move pallets as they go, the machine barely leaves a footprint on our soil.

[Lawnworks]

Just remember another job I did a couple weeks ago. I had prepped the yard ealier in the day and went to the farm to pick-up the sod. Arrived at the yard at 5pm. Placed 5 pallets of sod in the back yard w/ my Cat. Started raining as soon as I got my cat out of the backyard. Kept raining hard, me and my guy laid 5 pallets till 6:30... then did cutting and rolling till 7 and bs w/ customer, adjust sprinklers etc and in truck at 7:30. Had to get down the sod before it washed my topsoil I had trucked in. Usually don't work that fast, but the rain was a great motivator.