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View Full Version : Picture of 272C with attachments that I promised!


qzilla
10-02-2007, 12:20 PM
Well, got the machine in late last week and got a chance to put it to a little work. So far we only have the brush cutter and the tree shear and both worked better than expected.

I will get more pictures up as I get the grapple rake and the tree grubber.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C001.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C002.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C003.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C004.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C005.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C006.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C007.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C008.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/Boenker272C009.jpg

Tigerotor77W
10-02-2007, 01:34 PM
Awesome! How do you like the machine so far?

All_Toro_4ME
10-02-2007, 01:48 PM
Very nice. You got a radio in that cab to listen to?

Scag48
10-02-2007, 04:08 PM
Lookin good!

DBL
10-02-2007, 04:27 PM
very nice machine

with that tree shear when you snip them do you push on them or something to get them to fall the way you want? it doesnt look like theres anything that grabs the trunk and controls it. how big a trunk fits in there?

lawncare18
10-02-2007, 05:58 PM
Very nice.. you got ac in the cab??? We got a new holland 185 rubber track.. nice machine .. use it a lot to plow snow with... been instaling cart paths on a golf course with it to recently and will take us into the winter.

qzilla
10-02-2007, 07:51 PM
So far we love it. We demod a 262C and really liked it better than anything else we tried so we ordered the 272C which is basically the same machine with more power.

So far I am happy with fuel consumption, the first tank went 10.5hrs which was more than I thought it would go as hard as we ran it.

The A/C works so good that I have not turned it on high yet. I actually get chilled with it on the middle setting and turn it down a lot!

All the air ride stuff is great too. So far, I do not have any complaints. I am sure there will be some little stuff that will aggrevate me after a while but, I am really happy for now.

On that tree shear there are 2 things that control the way it falls. First because it is a single blade the tree falls away from the blade. I only cut about 15 trees with it so far as most of my work was with the brush cutter but, so far every single tree fell exactly away from the blade just like it would with a chain saw.

Now, with that said if you have a tree leaning you will want to position yourself to cut it where it falls to the leaning side.

The second thing that you cannot really tell is that the guard on the front is pretty tall and leans forward a good bit to help you push a tree if started to come towards you.

I have buddy's that have a Dymax and the same shear I bought. I liked both of them but, for me there were 2 things I liked about the single blade.

1.) The tree falling is predictable
2.) When the blades wear on the 2 bladed shears the tree tends to not be cut all the way through in the center.

We have a lot of work to do with it so as I make some good progress I will keep you posted.

YellowDogSVC
10-02-2007, 08:18 PM
where are you located with that Holt machine? I use the CAT HM 312 mulcher. You would probably love it with that 272c

Fieldman12
10-02-2007, 08:48 PM
That is a good looking machine.

iron peddler
10-02-2007, 08:57 PM
the 262 and 272 are not the same machine....hp, wheelbase, and ground clearance are just a few of the differences...

deere615
10-02-2007, 09:20 PM
I really like the brush cutter. That is a very nice and clean machine!

kreft
10-05-2007, 11:50 AM
thats an awesome machine

kreft
10-05-2007, 11:53 AM
what made you go with tires instead of tracks

GradeMan
10-05-2007, 07:13 PM
Nice skid, Don't scratch it:nono: :dancing:

qzilla
10-06-2007, 12:19 AM
I went with tires and steel OTT due to the rough nature of all the stumps and stuff I would be running over.

I actually was supposed to have the airless tires on it but, CAT issued a release saying that they would not allow machines to leave there with OTT on tires that DID NOT have air in them. So we put 100oz of gel in each tire and called it good.

I was concerned about2 things with the rubber track machine.

1.) We are in the sand, like beach sand. We have very little dirt. If you look at the pictures you can see the sand just falling off the tracks. I was really concerned that over a little time the sand would eat the undercaraige and all the idlers and bogey wheels. I know they are rough on my D6 so I keep it on the other ranches further north.

2.) I was concerned about track life of the the rubber tracks and I was really concerned about using them in a stumpy enovironment as I have heard the tear fairly easy and I would be cutting them to pieces. The CAT guys agreed, so I went with the OTT tracks.

I was worried about them having enough floatation and traction but, that was squashed when I demod it. I know you can stick anything but, you would have to be very unlucky or stupid to stick the machine I have. I have tried in deep sand to spin the track while pushing. I got it high centered once but, I just rocked the machine with the brush cutter on front (with the hydraulics turned off) and it came right out. I was trying to get it stuck too. I spun it until the tracks were not touching the ground and still got out in 20 seconds.

Oh, yeah, I tried to scratch it, that CAT paint is suprisingly tough. I figured it would look like crap after the first day but, I washed it and she looks brand new again!!

The CAT rep stayed for most of the first day as he was enjoying the ranch and I literally went wide open while he was there. That way if I had an issue he was there. I think with a little common sense and maintenance it is indestructible!

#1 Catman
10-19-2007, 12:09 PM
Where did you find that Brushcutter? It looks very sturdy. I have been running davcos std flow cutters. What do you like about that one and how is it holding up? My cost of a Davco is most likely twice as much as that one.
Need to buy another cutter. WHO, WHERE, And WHY? Any one else have info I am cutting 2-5" of everything and do not have High Flow.

JDSKIDSTEER
10-19-2007, 03:34 PM
The cutter looks like it came out of Gadsden Alabama. Am I correct?

YellowDogSVC
10-19-2007, 05:29 PM
what kind of prices are those 272c's? I'm thinking of making the switch from Bobcat for my brush mowing end of the business since Bobcat won't put more hp in their large frame loaders without adding unnecessary weight.

cat2
10-19-2007, 06:42 PM
what kind of prices are those 272c's? I'm thinking of making the switch from Bobcat for my brush mowing end of the business since Bobcat won't put more hp in their large frame loaders without adding unnecessary weight.



Hey you talking bad about bobcat:nono: :gunsfirin might have to do something about this:hammerhead:







J/k :laugh: Bobcat could use more power in their bigger machines

YellowDogSVC
10-19-2007, 07:47 PM
Hey you talking bad about bobcat:nono: :gunsfirin might have to do something about this:hammerhead:

J/k :laugh: Bobcat could use more power in their bigger machines

I'm just frustrated by lack of motor power. The s300's I run, while powerful, don't keep up with the hydraulic pump the way I think they should especially since the machine itself is so heavy. I am tired of buying new machines that have a really dusty cab. Heck, my 1989 truck sucks less dust in the cab than my 2007 bobcat. I do a good job of sealing the cab with tape, silicone, foam, and weatherstripping but I shouldn't have to do that and spend the time to replace the tape as it wears out. I feel that the s300's should have at least 90-95 hp so they can be used harder as a brush mower.

cat2
10-19-2007, 08:00 PM
I'm just frustrated by lack of motor power. The s300's I run, while powerful, don't keep up with the hydraulic pump the way I think they should especially since the machine itself is so heavy. I am tired of buying new machines that have a really dusty cab. Heck, my 1989 truck sucks less dust in the cab than my 2007 bobcat. I do a good job of sealing the cab with tape, silicone, foam, and weatherstripping but I shouldn't have to do that and spend the time to replace the tape as it wears out. I feel that the s300's should have at least 90-95 hp so they can be used harder as a brush mower.



Yes I agree with you 100%

qzilla
10-19-2007, 11:46 PM
Where did you find that Brushcutter? It looks very sturdy. I have been running davcos std flow cutters. What do you like about that one and how is it holding up? My cost of a Davco is most likely twice as much as that one.
Need to buy another cutter. WHO, WHERE, And WHY? Any one else have info I am cutting 2-5" of everything and do not have High Flow.

http://www.storesonline.com/site/1286901/product/SL601

It says it cuts 5" stuff. I have cut 8" pretty easily. Just takes a few seconds. Small stuff I can just drive through. Like anything else you need some finese to work quickly. You will find it will cut larger stuff than it shreds. I cut it down and then worry about shredding the parts I can of it.

I really need to take pictures of stuff I have done. It is AMAZING.

Now, it comes with rubber on the front and on each side. That lasted about 20 minutes for me and I knew it when I saw it. I am sure it is a liability thing.

I also did slightly bend the back corners from it slinging shredded logs. Not enough to make any difference but it did push them out slightly!!!

I have shredded some heavy duty stuff. I have about 25hrs on the bruh cutter and I really think it is indestructable!

qzilla
10-19-2007, 11:49 PM
what kind of prices are those 272c's? I'm thinking of making the switch from Bobcat for my brush mowing end of the business since Bobcat won't put more hp in their large frame loaders without adding unnecessary weight.

I think we ended up around $52-53K or something?? We ended up with different tires, steel tracks, grapple bucket, 2 speed, all the counterweight we could get, something HOLT calls a "land tamer" package, XPS and the whole bit.

The land tamer is a turbo and exhaust manifold shield and some other stuff to keep the machine safe and cool while hammering brush.

I have 40hrs on the machine and the only dust that has entered the cab is when I open the door and the wind is blowing! Clean as a whistle.

The A/C is ridiculous as well! I have NEVER had to use it on high. Most of the time it stays on the lowest level.

They are really easy to clean and service as well. I blow mine out and hose it off after each day and it stays really clean!

Tigerotor77W
10-20-2007, 02:10 AM
I'm just frustrated by lack of motor power. The s300's I run, while powerful, don't keep up with the hydraulic pump the way I think they should especially since the machine itself is so heavy. I am tired of buying new machines that have a really dusty cab. Heck, my 1989 truck sucks less dust in the cab than my 2007 bobcat. I do a good job of sealing the cab with tape, silicone, foam, and weatherstripping but I shouldn't have to do that and spend the time to replace the tape as it wears out. I feel that the s300's should have at least 90-95 hp so they can be used harder as a brush mower.

I'm curious -- is it the engine that bogs down, or what happens, exactly? You'd figure that since Bobcat sources this attachment itself, it would have heard about similar comments.

That being said, though, perhaps something's already in the works and the engineers who know about it are laughing at me for it.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm curious -- is it the engine that bogs down, or what happens, exactly? You'd figure that since Bobcat sources this attachment itself, it would have heard about similar comments.

That being said, though, perhaps something's already in the works and the engineers who know about it are laughing at me for it.

As for Bobcat hearing comments, I can assure you that they heard about the cooling problems we had with g series was always told (you are using unapproved attachments) Horsecrap! We overheated 773g, s220, s300g using brushcat because radiator would clog in a few hours or less. It took using the AC filter (which Bobcat says was only going to restrict air flow) to help filter some of the fluff and grass when mowing or grinding. I don't overheat anymore but can push the needle to the high green when grinding. It was not very hot this summer and both of my machines needed help with the AC, that is, I added a turbo fan in the cab to help circulate air. Even with clean filters and clean radiators, the AC is marginal on a hot and humid day compared to what I am hearing about other machines. Maybe it's just me. I like it crisp all day! . I think the machine getting hot is fixed for now but the design of the cooling system still leaves some room for improvement.

As for the bogging down. I do everything S L O W. Everyone says I drive everything like a granny. I feather into piles of brush and trees and don't ram or jam the sticks to move forward. Very fluid. The machine still bogs (both
s300 k's I own) when the mower needs to get the rpms back up. It's annoying as heck and totally due to the weight of the machine, demands by the 37gpm pump, and lack of total horsepower). I ran a similar mower called the landtamer/tushhog on s300g (30.9 gpm) and the s300k at 37gpm. there is a lot more pump now and I think that is great but there isn't a lot more engine to turn the pump.
I also don't like that Bobcat uses two identical engines in the s220-s250 as the s300's and advertises a few more hp because of "more fuel, more power" and paints them a different color. If it is just a fuel pump, why can't I get s220 with the 81hp? I was told I could not.
Personally, I think they are playing with the numbers and that's a bit annoying trying to get the full story. Same thing on the s330 and t32o which is rated at 92 hp and the other is 85 hp. If the loader frame is virtually an s300 frame, why can't I get that motor in machines and save some of the weight of larger tires or tracks? Seems simple enough. I have stayed away from the s330 because of the operating weight which can't all be attributed to the upgraded motor, right?

Just tell me the truth and let me decide which machine I need for my application since I know what I need. Instead, they play games and sell me a machine I may not need because psychologically, I think I am getting more hp (and more weight as in the s220, s250 vs. s300).
I did order my new s300 in may (because CAT wasn't ready to tell me if the c series was available) to run my cat mower. I went with air filled tires over solid fill to save on weight. I do notice a slight difference between the s300k with foam filled and the new one but the machines are still heavy. i guess it isn't fair to call them "dogs" and I really do love the machines but for the money, i am asking myself if I am getting enough hp in this size machine? I like the weight for working with big trees, they are very towable, though heavy, and feel very solid when moving the CAT mower (which is about 2300 lbs) but I'm just looking for more Umph on high flow or when working with a grinder in sloping terrain.
Sorry for the LONG explanation. I tend to do that!

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 10:49 AM
Hey you talking bad about bobcat:nono: :gunsfirin might have to do something about this:hammerhead:

J/k :laugh: Bobcat could use more power in their bigger machines

The more I think about it, the more I get frustrated. I own 2 s300's, a toolcat, buckets, vibratory roller, grapple, 4n1 bucket, farm grapple, and the list goes on. Almost all Bobcat. I have been a very supportive Bobcat guy and just bought my 9th machine since '97, upgrading all the time but I don't feel that Bobcat has made as many improvements and thought I have spent tons of money, I don't get the voice I should. Heck, nobody ever asks me and I send back those little warranty forms with comments all the time.

Construct'O
10-20-2007, 11:50 AM
I would say it is time too make a decision what brand your your going with next time.

Unless things change soon with the buy out of Bobcat.

The issues with the cab makes one of your new choices simple,but price is a different story for now!!!!!.As far as i see it!Unless the others step up to the plate here soon.Then i'm sure the price of them will also reflect the improvement they make to there cab and machine also.

Guy just hates to take a beating when he makes the switch too another brand.Which is normally not to your best interest.

I would take the oldest machine to make the trade with.Then maybe it will get the attention from your Bobcat dealer and they will start coming up with better fixs.

Good luck!:usflag:

ksss
10-20-2007, 12:05 PM
YellowDog,
CASE will soon be releasing their new cab design this Winter. The 465 with high flow generates more hyd. hp than any other machine on the market (as I was told by Loftness several years ago). Most brush cutting attachment OEMs used the 95XT HF as the platform skid steer to build there products off of. The spec that guys like you need to look at is engine torque. The S300 is close in hp just one less. However the torque rating spread is much more substantial S300=217, 465=263. Other key stats, the BC holds just under 5 gal less hyd. fluid big factor in overheating. The BC also has a small motor working hard to generate its hp, S300 displacement 202 cubic inches, 465 displacement 274 cubic inches. Something to think about when it is time to trade.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 12:06 PM
I have my oldest machine for sell with 800 hours. Since economy is slowing, I thought about sitting for a while with 1 skid and 1 toolcat since I can only have seat time in so many machines at a time. I just feel like if I had waited another month or two and if CAT rep had more information for me at the time, I wouldn't have bought the s300 in May and had the problems I ended up with (field mod problems).

Tigerotor77W
10-20-2007, 12:47 PM
Sorry for the LONG explanation. I tend to do that!

Actually, I'm glad and appreciate that you took the time to express your thoughts. I can't understand your frustrations in the sense of being in a similar situation myself, but I do empathize in feeling that Bobcat's become somewhat stagnant lately.

I do believe that they have stuff coming out -- I don't know when or what -- but it's about time for a fresh update, and given that 2008 brings new emissions to the forefront and 2007 was their warming-over year with the K-series, perhaps (i.e. hopefully; read: they better!) come out with something new.

I really hope things go well for you. It might be worth it to call Bobcat HQ and ask for some manager in ND. Maybe venting your frustrations to them wouldn't go as unnoticed as a warranty card? (And come on... nine machines consecutively upgraded over the past decade can't be ignored.)

qzilla
10-20-2007, 01:59 PM
YellowdogSVC,

Hey, if you want we can hook up down south. My primary ranch is just South of Alice, so about 1.5hrs south of San Antonio.

I would love to try a mulching head and it would give you a chance to look at and work a C series.

I am not positive but, I think it has plenty of pump and motor!

Digdeep
10-20-2007, 02:28 PM
ksss is correct that it is engine torque that really matters when you are running high demand hydraulic attachments like brush cutters. I would argure that the ASV RC100 has the most engine torque for a machine with high flow- 304ft lbs, and if you take a look at most of the mulching head manufacturers ads you'll see that a majority of them show their head with a RC100. Remember that the Loftness brochure with all of the flows and hydraulic hp figures are only theoretical and don't take into account the engines ability to drive the attachment effectively when it is under a load while mulching or brush cutting. I'm sorry, but I always used to tell the Bobcat rep that a 3.3L engine just couldn't drive a high flow attachment as well as a larger displacement engine could in the same conditions. Most of the market is still using gear pumps as well instead of variable displacement piston pumps (ASV and CAT) and this leads to inefficiencies as well.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 03:30 PM
(And come on... nine machines consecutively upgraded over the past decade can't be ignored.)

Evidently, I'm small potatos even with 9 machines in 10 years. First machine was in April, 1997 when I started off with an 863c (leakiest machine on the planet I would wager), then got a 773g and 863g, s220, s250, s300g, s300k, and s300k and just picked up a toolcat turbo B that was barely used. Everything has been cab and air except the 250 and first 863 so I tax my motor right off the bat. I know my bobcat machines and have been mostly happy and they do a ton of work in this rough as can be hill country. Heck, my kitchen has a "bobcat st" sign and everything I own is built around Bobcat.

I do love CAT dozers and other machines but didn't really care for the B series skids which I had a chance to try out for a weekend. I put on paper once what I was looking for in a machine, as a dream machine, and it seems that CAT built what I wanted (I just didn't know it was coming out for sure when I made my last major upgrade).
In the class I am in, I see myself falling to a disadvantage when brush grinding due to the hp differences between CAT and Bobcat in the bigger machines. Of course, this is on paper, but I would sure love to run a machine side by side and see if I am missing anything. I just can't get over the weight issue either. I realize Bobcat's are armored up pretty good and I have never cracked anything on the new loaders but why not put some more pep in the motor and seal the cabs better?
Another thing that keeps me at Bobcat, at least for now, is my dealer service. I get treated like a friend there...that means a lot to me. I realize I am just a number to Corporate but just a few years ago, CAT corporate offered incentives to get me to switch to a B series when it was new. I didn't take the bait mostly because I felt that learning joysticks after wobble sticks would prove difficult (i'm old school) and I wasn't sold on the b series overall design..just the hydraulic power and weight. Bobcat service, too, is more convenient with excellent in-field service and a parts dept. that knows me and bends over backwards if needed. Argghhhh, but again, I like CAT products overall.

Digdeep
10-20-2007, 04:21 PM
YellowDogSVC...you are the backbone of what makes Bobcat what it is today. When I sold Bobcats, I always worked extremely hard to make sure that each of my customers, one machine, or multiple machines felt like they were dealing with someone vested in their success because they were. I think that sometimes manufacturers tend to forget that the "customer" is the "only" reason they are in business. Of course profit, shareholders, and other things are extremely important, but none of it would be possible without the customer getting machines that make "him/her" profitable. I appreciate your posts and I wish you the best of luck. Guys like you made me proud to have been a salesman.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 05:51 PM
Geez, Dig Deep, thanks!

It's tough being loyal to only one manufacturer especially when you don't get the information you seek. I wonder, if CAT made a jump to really comfy cabs and better power/weight and the other manufacturers will obviously need to follow suit, why not tell your customers that help is on the way? Why even take a chance of losing one to the competition.
Personally, I'm in a position where I need to be more productive. I'm sqeezed by the big boys with big machines and the small guy's with cheap labor and old chippers. If I increase productivity without having to invest in a 100k plus machine, then I have solved some of my problems by at least working faster and more efficiently. In my mind, that's what I think. If brush mowing wasn't such a competitive and machine intensive service, I'd probably still be running an 863g or s250 or maybe the g series s300 and just plodding along with a tree shear. I just need more power..plain and simple but I don't want to sacrifice portability by adding unnecessary weight and since I am in this "office" all day, I want to be comfortable. Now, how hard is that to figure out from a manufacturers standpoint? I still remember my first "new" truck that came without drinkholders back in 1992. Who would think of a vehicle now without a drink holder? It's all about comfort. Keep me happy and cool and I will clear all day. Not much different than sitting on the couch, right? :) Uggh, I can still remember the open cab days and the long, hot, dusty Texas summer that just wouldn't end. Thanks Bobcat for at least having an excellent cab years ago. That added life to these tired bones! :)Now, just pick up the drawing board and design rubber gasket or something to keep the rest of the dust out so I don't have to spend 3 hours dust proofing every few months and put some more beef into your motors and we are back on good terms.

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 06:56 PM
I think with pretty much all skid steer manufactures there is issues. I mean lets face it the skid was never really designed for much more than hauling manure. You would think that because skid steer's is Bobcat's bread and butter they would do all they could to keep the market. As I said at another post problem with like Cat and Deere from what I have been told by the dealers is they really don't want to mess around with skid steers. They told me at the Construction dealers that it was more or less for them a small ticket item and that in order to get business they needed to dedicate a truck and trailer to just going around and trying to demo and sell these small machines. Our Deere construction dealer last time I was there said he was dropping the skid steer line and that the AG dealers where going to pickup that side of the business since they where more use to dealing with new smaller priced items. Now so far I have no complaints with dealing with deere but if they ever caused me a problem or could not get me parts I would switch to anyone else (most likely someone smaller who would appreciate my business). Like I said dealers still are trying to figure out how to sell and service skid steers. Looks like they are getting it figured out finally.

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Im pretty much a Cat, Deere, and Case man but I would own a Bobcat. I know they tried super hard to get me into a machine. It almost worked.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 08:16 PM
I think with pretty much all skid steer manufactures there is issues. I mean lets face it the skid was never really designed for much more than hauling manure. You would think that because skid steer's is Bobcat's bread and butter they would do all they could to keep the market. As I said at another post problem with like Cat and Deere from what I have been told by the dealers is they really don't want to mess around with skid steers. They told me at the Construction dealers that it was more or less for them a small ticket item and that in order to get business they needed to dedicate a truck and trailer to just going around and trying to demo and sell these small machines. Our Deere construction dealer last time I was there said he was dropping the skid steer line and that the AG dealers where going to pickup that side of the business since they where more use to dealing with new smaller priced items. Now so far I have no complaints with dealing with deere but if they ever caused me a problem or could not get me parts I would switch to anyone else (most likely someone smaller who would appreciate my business). Like I said dealers still are trying to figure out how to sell and service skid steers. Looks like they are getting it figured out finally.

demoing is good but before they go that far they need to have a decent reputation and have the service to back it up. I think Bobcat and CAt will excel in that line. Our local JD dealer used to be good, don't know anymore and CASE looks like they have it together but having a guy on payroll to demo all year isn't all that expensive if he is selling. I have often thought of making the switch to sales.I know what I would immediately improve on and skills from 1000's of hours using machines of different sizes is a plus. I just don't see sales guys spending enough time in the seat for an effective demo so they leave the machine with the operator. That's great but they should be able to answer real world questions for a big ticket item.
Yes, they will all have issues and I don't expect the moon but would like to see innovation now and again.

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 08:26 PM
I agree it just gets me how some of these places act. I mean lets face it you use to be able to buy a house for $50,000.00 and now they act like it's chicken feed.

qzilla
10-20-2007, 08:30 PM
From talking to a good friend that works for CAT, here is my take.

CAT went and dabbled in the skid steer maket with the B series. I think it made them realize the potential and I also think it made them realize that in order to get the share of business they wanted they had to be better than everyone else by a lot. Lets face it Bobcat owns the market and the others are just picking up the fringes for the most part.

So once the realized the B series was an average contender and had some issues, instead of pressing on they went to the drawing board with a no hold barred attitude, which pretty much only CAT can do. They are a financial giant and one of, if not the most profitable equipment company there is.

They spent tons of money on research and development and now they plan to dominate the market. They have small machines and big machine. Machines with as much or more NET power than anyone else. They have a phenominal pump system.

The comfort is unmatched. The controls (even if you are old school) are second to none. They got a lot of this stuff from their heavy equipment. Dozers, excavators and wheel loaders all have this stuff now.

Then to back it up, there are not many times I hear about bad CAT service. Typically you here about how fast and efficient they are with fixing machines if they break.

So, I think that CAT once dabbled in this section of the industry and now they plan to dominate it. They have resources many other companies do not. They also have the experience and technology available to them.

I could be wrong but, I think it will either take a long time for the others to catch up, if they ever do. Everyone else is behind right now.

Now, I do not have the experience of all of you. I am not saying that other machines are not capable and are bad machines. There are many fine machines but, when I demod most of them, CAT stood mighty tall. They have the power, they have the weight now, they have the comfort, besides a lower price what do you want?

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 08:42 PM
Price is the biggest issue with Cat now in my opinion. Now since there is plenty of other companies making skid steers maybe the price will come down. Yes, they have brought to the customer what they asked for but I don't think at times all customers realize what they want will add on to cost. You have to admit guys on here that has been doing this a long time are even complaining about the prices. I think things will adjust there self in time. I agree that Cat is first class equipment in my honest opinion.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 09:06 PM
From talking to a good friend that works for CAT, here is my take.

CAT went and dabbled in the skid steer maket with the B series. I think it made them realize the potential and I also think it made them realize that in order to get the share of business they wanted they had to be better than everyone else by a lot. Lets face it Bobcat owns the market and the others are just picking up the fringes for the most part.

So once the realized the B series was an average contender and had some issues, instead of pressing on they went to the drawing board with a no hold barred attitude, which pretty much only CAT can do. They are a financial giant and one of, if not the most profitable equipment company there is.

They spent tons of money on research and development and now they plan to dominate the market. They have small machines and big machine. Machines with as much or more NET power than anyone else. They have a phenominal pump system.

The comfort is unmatched. The controls (even if you are old school) are second to none. They got a lot of this stuff from their heavy equipment. Dozers, excavators and wheel loaders all have this stuff now.

Then to back it up, there are not many times I hear about bad CAT service. Typically you here about how fast and efficient they are with fixing machines if they break.

So, I think that CAT once dabbled in this section of the industry and now they plan to dominate it. They have resources many other companies do not. They also have the experience and technology available to them.

I could be wrong but, I think it will either take a long time for the others to catch up, if they ever do. Everyone else is behind right now.

Now, I do not have the experience of all of you. I am not saying that other machines are not capable and are bad machines. There are many fine machines but, when I demod most of them, CAT stood mighty tall. They have the power, they have the weight now, they have the comfort, besides a lower price what do you want?


With that logic, I don't think I could add much. Go to the drawing board full speed ahead and come out with a fantastic product that is (at least on paper) ahead of any competitor and keep the price in line with competition and you have a winning combination.

Good analysis! I was looking at how well built my CAT mower is compared to some of the others I have owned and used. Even though it is an FAE design, it has some cat innovations and seems to really be put together well and I was immediately impressed with just a few things that seemd "CAT". I remember my first time in a CAT d5m. I was used to the old sticks in a '59 JD. Wow, finger tip controls driving a 26k lb. machine! Impressive. That technology is amazing. On the other hand, I had a Bobcat foot/hand control machine.. It sucked so bad I didn't need ac from the draft it pooled! :) Seriously, being able to adapt the operator friendly atmosphere of an excavator to a mini machine like a skidsteer is no small feat and I think it just makes sense. Now if we could get a skidsteer cab and booms to rotate like an excavator you could really do some damage!

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 11:29 PM
Cat has done there homework there is no doubt about it. I seriously think though it will be on between them and Deere here in about two more years. Deere is always late to steeping up to the plate but usually when they do they have something to bring. If they get the pilots, beef up the cab and fix a few other things I think all and all Deere may when due to more AG dealers than Cat construction dealers. Deere already has a good track machine which may or may not be fixed on the Cat. Only time will tell. I want a new Cat and a Deere myself. :)

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 11:34 PM
Don't forget about Case skid steers and track machines. They have allot to offer anyone in my honest opinion. Worse thing I see with them especially around here is nobody pushes them which is beyond me.

YellowDogSVC
10-20-2007, 11:35 PM
i thought deere ag dealers couldn't sell deere heavy equipment?

Fieldman12
10-20-2007, 11:45 PM
They sell the mini excavators and skid steers only at this time. They are starting at least around here to get a descent amount of inventory.

YellowDogSVC
10-21-2007, 12:26 AM
Well, that will be something to contend with. While I didn't particularly care for my deere 970 tractor (i liked it for farm but not commercial) I liked my 59 dozer and the service dept was pretty good. Deere definitely has some sweet heavy machinery out there and though I never tried its skids, they look tough as heck.

Fieldman12
10-21-2007, 02:19 PM
Not all ag dealers are selling the line yet. It is up to the dealer if they choose too. I would say it goes the same for the Construction side. I think both sides are starting to see there is some money there. It just seems like the AG side is noticing more. Like I said before these are small items to sell on the Construction side of things.

ksss
10-21-2007, 02:59 PM
From talking to a good friend that works for CAT, here is my take.

CAT went and dabbled in the skid steer maket with the B series. I think it made them realize the potential and I also think it made them realize that in order to get the share of business they wanted they had to be better than everyone else by a lot. Lets face it Bobcat owns the market and the others are just picking up the fringes for the most part.

So once the realized the B series was an average contender and had some issues, instead of pressing on they went to the drawing board with a no hold barred attitude, which pretty much only CAT can do. They are a financial giant and one of, if not the most profitable equipment company there is.

They spent tons of money on research and development and now they plan to dominate the market. They have small machines and big machine. Machines with as much or more NET power than anyone else. They have a phenominal pump system.

The comfort is unmatched. The controls (even if you are old school) are second to none. They got a lot of this stuff from their heavy equipment. Dozers, excavators and wheel loaders all have this stuff now.

Then to back it up, there are not many times I hear about bad CAT service. Typically you here about how fast and efficient they are with fixing machines if they break.

So, I think that CAT once dabbled in this section of the industry and now they plan to dominate it. They have resources many other companies do not. They also have the experience and technology available to them.

I could be wrong but, I think it will either take a long time for the others to catch up, if they ever do. Everyone else is behind right now.

Now, I do not have the experience of all of you. I am not saying that other machines are not capable and are bad machines. There are many fine machines but, when I demod most of them, CAT stood mighty tall. They have the power, they have the weight now, they have the comfort, besides a lower price what do you want?

Interesting reading if it was factual. Bobcat's position in market in marketshare is currently about 15% above CASE @ 45%. Thats not picking up fringe sales. That applies CAT and Deere. New machines sales are very competetive. At the current rate of closure Bobcat may will have total market share for sometime due to total amount of machines sold over the years however, new machine sales are not that rosie for BC. CAT's horsepower ratings are inline with everyone, not a big surprise since they have the newest machine on the market. Their power is not dominating the industry. Their cab probably is without a doubt industry leading. What is not known is if the cab will result in sales. Guys have to be willing to pay the price. I would as I still put 1000 hours a year in a skid steer. Other guys with more hired help and little seat time themselves may not be as willing
to spend the money. The cab maybe the best but Cat doesn't get paid for it until people buy it.

Cat no doubt has a nice machine. Like I said they have newest the machine on the market, so they can ride that for a while. To say that they are so dominate that everyone else may never catch up is short sighted to say the least. The last time that kind of domination occured was when Deere ag released the 30 series tractor. That is not likely to be seen again, certainly not in the skid steer market.


Things to watch

Deere: When they release a pilot or E/H contol system they will see some gains. Should they continue to improve quality and improve the cab they will move more machines.

CASE: Their new machines will soon release as well. More power, more ROC and the most important improvement is a complete cab redo, including air seat and pressurized cab. Hopefully they will make it a good value as well as a nice cab.

Bobcat: I don't know what they have coming but I would look for Doosan to revive their franchise player with an influx of money and support.

CarterKraft
10-21-2007, 03:31 PM
while I am pretty sure I cannot post or quote market share numbers from our territory I assure you that CAT has the majority, the others pick up the pieces.

but it has also been said that the newest has a advantage for awhile, and I have to agree.

All the long time customers of ours really like the C-series and many have traded on the spot, these customers are of the owner operator types.

The big fleets haven't swapped yet but there B-models really aren't old enough to make a swap good idea. Also the big fleets don't run machines that are currently being replaced by the C series, more the Series II B machines.

Fieldman12
10-21-2007, 05:10 PM
KSSS, I have to say I agree especially with what to watch for with Deere, Case, and Bobcat. I have a feeling Doosan is going to make some serious changes with Bobcat.

YellowDogSVC
10-21-2007, 06:34 PM
I still think all the manufacturers need to open up a bit about what they can offer. Bobcat nearly steered me into a CAT before the K series came out due to lack of hydraulic power. I was interested in a C series CAT but they wouldn't confirm a release date back around May so I ordered a new Bobcat. Those are big sales that, if the manufacturers provided more info, would help the consumer and owner/operator make a better informed decision. I like that the competition keeps improving. It keeps the race going for improvements but the secrecy about release dates and releasing very little information leaves me feeling left in the dark especially when my business depends on productive up-time instead of waiting around for something that is delayed or doesn't have a known entry date.

As late as last November my CAT dealer for my mower told me there was a new machine in the works that would be better suited to brush mowing and dusty condition but he didn't have much information. I then heard that if I could wait till April, they would have the machines to test. Well, I couldn't wait and just missed demoing a new cat by a month or two so they lost a sale when I needed a machine. It could have gone either way. If the CAT demo had been favorable, I might be running CAT and Bobcat and might even be a switcharoo candidate on down the road. How bad do the manufacturers want to make and keep a customer? If Bobcat wants to keep me forever, they need to step up and say, "hey, we're working on this and this and if you are patient, we promise you won't be disappointed but you need to wait x number of months". I could then plan.. does this make sense?

Tigerotor77W
10-21-2007, 07:11 PM
while I am pretty sure I cannot post or quote market share numbers from our territory I assure you that CAT has the majority, the others pick up the pieces.

... these customers are of the owner operator types.

The big fleets haven't swapped yet but there B-models really aren't old enough to make a swap good idea. Also the big fleets don't run machines that are currently being replaced by the C series, more the Series II B machines.

Probably a wise choice -- Cat guys (corporate) do read these threads. (for better or worse. :D )

And carterkraft is right (and addresses a similar KSSS point) -- whether people will be spending more money for a maxed-out SSL cab is an interesting question. Owner-operators with cash reserves to spare might, but will the landscaper who operates solely open-cab machines? Not so convinced. I think it will be interesting to see where Cat goes with the market; if the price point of their open-cab machines is comparable to Deere and NH and Case, it will have a good time selling against those three (and Bobcat). If the open-cab model is still thousands (say $3000) above a comparable competitor, mmm... seems like a case of "We're Cat; we're more expensive because we're the "best" and our name is Cat."

Carterkraft -- what do you mean by big companies going with the B2 machines? Are people still buying 236B2s instead of, say, moving up to the 246C? (Or 252B2s instead of going to a radial 256C?)

KSSS: good insight on Deere, Case, and Bobcat. I actually don't see Doosan interfering too much; what's going on now has probably been going on for a good while. My bet: watch the 2008 Worksaver for more details. (This is purely a guess.) If nothing comes out, I'll throw up my hands in dispair.

And also a good point on Cat not necessarily maintaining the lead. Cat's caught up to the rest of the industry -- and surpassed quite a few -- from a performance standpoint, and the cab is undoubtably the most comfortable now available, but resting on laurels is what allowed Deere to penetrate the small dozer market, so hopefully Cat can use its lessons learned and come out with more competitive stuff when the next generation rolls out. There's nothing to say that Cat wants to be #1 and if there will stay #1, but certainly the added competition from an otherwise quiet player is welcome.

Construct'O
10-21-2007, 07:25 PM
I have posted this before and still beleive this is a smart move for Deere! About all the Deere AG dealers are selling the compact equipment machines.Skid,minis,tlb and etc.

Here there is at least one or more Ag dealers per county.So just in my state there are a bunch.The Cat dealerships are only 5 with several field tech,but no other dealers.

The other brands are also going to there Ag dealer to promote and sell there machine.

The closer the service the better your chance of seller to locals.I do realize in the major citys that this is not a big deal,but in my area i think they are going to make a major impact.

My Deere dealer is only 10 miles from me,my Cat dealer is is over a 100 miles with field tech 30 miles.But in the other turn the Deere construction dealer is also 100 miles.

I'm just trying to say that Deere is thinking smart by turning over the small stuff to the Ag dealers.In doing so my local dealer has recurited a new heavy equipment tech for their dealship.

Since doing this they are picking up local contractors busniess on the larger equipment with repair to ther larger excavators and dozers.With that! will bring new customers.

They just need to keep improving their products and furnish top service and they will be be right in the mix with the others.At least in my area.:usflag:

Construct'O
10-21-2007, 07:48 PM
In a follow up I'm close to Mo. which is out of my Cat dealer area (Ziegler).Dean Machinery(CAT) is Mo.I'm only 15 miles from Mo. stateline and the closes town is only 15 more miles.

Dean CAT started an AG dealer for cat in that town.It is just a small dealership that they bought out it was AC before them.

I thought well, they are close i would check them out and see what they had to offer.When i got there all that they has was a few Challengers and some other ag tool equipment on the lot.

I went and asked them where their skids and minis was.They looked at me and said they was just Ag dealer.I go what !!!!!!

I told them they was more or less missing the boat by not having compact machines there to demo,look at and also for rentals.This is a fairly good size college town with lots of building going on.

So what do you guys think???? I think they are really missing the ship ,not just the boat.The overhead for the dealership is about the same i would think.

If i was running the show there would be something of all there compact equipment on the lot,with a several rental machines.Just a sign of what i posted up above the competition is doing to improve there share of the market.:usflag:

Fieldman12
10-21-2007, 07:51 PM
Construct'O, that is exactly what Im seeing here with Deere. The AG dealer in London is now even working on the big wheel loaders and so on. They had a new 4-Door Dodge Ram Long Horn edition all fixed up for the Construction side of things. It had a pic of a CTL and other stuff on the side of it. Deere has the cash flow now. Just look at there stock price. I think there getting ready to make a big impact in the skid steer and mini market. I know tons of guys switching from other brands. The things they say to me it is a strong machine, good pushing power, easy to get parts for quick, and the price of the machine is less than others at this time. I just saw the other day where Cat's sales are down due to building is slow. AG now at this time is where to have your money at which is pushing Deere's stock price up. It has backed off some in the past week or two but not much. Cat is still my first choice over all for Construction equipment. Another thing that Deere does which Im sure Cat does is they spend millions in research each year. They have been noted for that.

Scag48
10-22-2007, 01:15 AM
I've seen the progress of Cat throughout the series. We're still running our A series 216 daily, runs like a champ. Cat started into compact equipment in 1999, look how far they've come. I can only estimate the amount features that will make it into the next series of skid steers and mini excavators, they just keep getting better and better. I look at the amount of advancements made to Cat's skid steers since their birth in 1999 and I guarantee that Cat has done more to up the standards in the last 4 years than Bobcat has done in 10. Actually, Bobcat really disappoints me these days. They really haven't done anything to their machines that gives them the upper hand. The same paint scheme since the G series, no radical changes to anything, practically no revolutionary features. Bobcat is riding their reputation, which will not attract hoards of first time equipment buyers. If another MFG. has a machine that appears better and you've never owned a Bobcat in the past, which would you buy? This is a sociological matter more than anything else, customers and humans in general are somewhat reluctant to even give a second look at a product that seems even slightly inferior. On the other hand, guys that have been buying Bobcat for 20 years will continue to do so. But what happens when those days run out? Had Cat not come along and pressurized the cabs of the new C series, how long would it have taken until Bobcat, Case, or Deere came up with the idea? I do believe there are good machines to be had from other MFG's, but Cat certainly isn't the worst. Cat is pushing the compact market, maybe not through sales numbers as I don't have hard evidence to support that, but through advancements in the way the equipment is designed, built, and operated.

YellowDogSVC
10-22-2007, 10:32 AM
birth in 1999 and I guarantee that Cat has done more to up the standards in the last 4 years than Bobcat has done in 10. Actually, Bobcat really disappoints me these days. .

Good points. My s300 is virtually the same as my old 863g in creature comforts. Same AC system as far as I can tell and I always thought the system was inadequate though it doesn't seem to have too many mechanical problems.
I tried to seal up my cabs (had 6 different enclosed cab machines) and none of them seal up great. I thought about pressurized system years ago and I am just a working man. Why didn't Bobcat come up with something like that or at least a better gasket to seal the cabs? Part of the issues are the hand/foot control levers leak dust from chaincase area under cab. Bobcat had to know this but continued for the last 7 years with inadequate cab sealing. As I posted in another topic, I've pretty much solved the big dust issues but it was a lot of work and I always dread a new machine. Where will it need tape?? That shouldn't be an issue but it is. The cooling system hasn't changed much either. Is that good or bad? Bobcat cooling system has to be the toughest to keep clean and service. Even the Bobcat mechanic struggles with it and I always get my machine back with dented radiator fins if they are working on it. Other than some larger hoses and a hydraulic fan, the cooling system is old school though the complaints are out there from people who mow. I would like to see the bar raised across the board so that they all compete for the most comfortable, productive, and reliable machine. I'll pay more (within reason) for comfort because I will be more motivated to work when I"m sore or tired.

Fieldman12
10-22-2007, 04:48 PM
Construct'O, I agree with you that the Cat dealer is missing the boat by not having any Cat equipment there. You know for a long time Bobcat really did not have that much competition but now we can clearly see that if you snooze you loose. Right now Cat has the technology in the cab and all we can do is wait and see if they have it in the undercarriage for the MTL machines. That cab though will mean little if it has the same issues as the old machines with the undercarriage. I hope they have all the bugs worked out. I personally want to see Cat do well as I said before I am very PRO Cat but I also would like everyone else to have a bright future. Let's face it if they have no competition we get stuck with basically what they want to charge and what they feel they should offer in a machine.

Scag48
10-22-2007, 05:04 PM
Yellowdog, points well made. Even with Bobcat's inability to seal the cab, do they still produce a quality machine that works day in and day out? Absolutely, I will not argue that. However, you and I both know that they have done nothing to up the standard of innovation and overall quality for quite some time. In my book, that's poor business, but in all reality Bobcat machines are entirely capable of handling a days work without hesitation. The disappointment factor is that Bobcat, in my eyes, is producing a machine that is dated by today's standards and like you said, the machines are basically un-changed since the G-series. As a consumer, I like to see new stuff coming out all the time regardless of who is producing it. Bobcat needs to step it up QUICKLY.

Fieldman12
10-22-2007, 05:19 PM
Maybe this could be a good side job for someone trying to insulate cabs from all the dust? I like to see new things coming out all the time as long as it is something worth talking about. There is too many manufactures in AG and construction anymore that think they can give it a new sticker and a new switch in the cab or five more horsepower and try to act like it is the best thing in the world. Seems like everytime Deere or Case IH does this the price goes up many thousands of dollars.

YellowDogSVC
10-22-2007, 05:25 PM
and like you said, the machines are basically un-changed since the G-series. As a consumer, I like to see new stuff coming out all the time regardless of who is producing it. Bobcat needs to step it up QUICKLY.

True, true. They did update their website, though. :dizzy: :) :laugh:

I like the relationship I have with my Bobcat dealer. CAT has been good too but it doesn't feel as homey as Bobcat does because that's where i started out. I want to see some innovation or just plain creature comfort. I will take the k series frame any day. Give me 90-94 hp, a bit more hydraulic pressure, and a stronger blowing A/C system and cab and I"m a happy camper! That isn't asking for a redesign. The cab is very comfy as is and if the AC blew harder and was a wee bit colder, that would be great since it is proven to be low maintenance in my rough conditions. I have zero issues with the loader frame as is. It doesn't crack, bend, sway, or vibrate. They got that right. No broken axles in all this rock, easy engine to service, and protected hydraulic lines and fair to good visibility. So, Bobcat, if you read this, get to work!

CarterKraft
10-22-2007, 06:33 PM
Probably a wise choice -- Cat guys (corporate) do read these threads. (for better or worse. :D )

And carterkraft is right (and addresses a similar KSSS point) -- whether people will be spending more money for a maxed-out SSL cab is an interesting question. Owner-operators with cash reserves to spare might, but will the landscaper who operates solely open-cab machines? Not so convinced. I think it will be interesting to see where Cat goes with the market; if the price point of their open-cab machines is comparable to Deere and NH and Case, it will have a good time selling against those three (and Bobcat). If the open-cab model is still thousands (say $3000) above a comparable competitor, mmm... seems like a case of "We're Cat; we're more expensive because we're the "best" and our name is Cat."

Carterkraft -- what do you mean by big companies going with the B2 machines? Are people still buying 236B2s instead of, say, moving up to the 246C? (Or 252B2s instead of going to a radial 256C?)




You don't have to tell me about CAT corporate:hammerhead:
After 5 years of being in the shop I have made the move to a Field truck so my abillity to see what's happening is diminishing but I still see us selling a fair share of B2's with and without CASE controls to the same customers as before. These customers, mostly concrete, retaining wall, etc are large fleet owners and don't need want closed cabs. they also don't need more hp or features.

After showing off a 272C to a owner of a large concrete company he was blown away with the features, performance etc, but in the end wasn't really interested in ever purchasing a machine that large for anything other than his personal land managment. That said he and others couldn't be happier with there original ASV tracked 247B's, and I can only imagine that feeling will continue with there B2's.

Fieldman12
10-22-2007, 06:39 PM
I know when I was looking at the C series Cats at the Farm Science Review they made a point to tell me they still was making and selling the B series. I kind of feel they are testing the waters with the C series like Case IH was with the new 8010 combines.

CarterKraft
10-22-2007, 06:52 PM
I don't think it's a testing issue because they ramped up the testing so much on the C-series it makes me proud to work for CAT.

All of the feedback we sent to CAT over the years they listened to every bit, and went above and beyond to correct most of the problems.

The C-series is complete new machine, and as such took some time to properly execute. this time and effort was probably better spent on the large frame tractors which were needed to compete in the market.

The smaller frame machines are next and I look for more of the same features and quality.

Tigerotor77W
10-22-2007, 10:10 PM
I know when I was looking at the C series Cats at the Farm Science Review they made a point to tell me they still was making and selling the B series. I kind of feel they are testing the waters with the C series like Case IH was with the new 8010 combines.

I feel like they're going after two categories. The B2 machines are probably targeted at the cost-conscious customer; the one, for instance, who might go to a NH L180.B because it's priced cheaper than the 262C. The C-series is aimed more squarely at "upping the ante" (which in normal speak means being competitive with the big boys -- Case, Deere, and Bobcat -- not so much taking a GIANT leap over them all).

Carterkraft -- do you know if the 252B2 is actually cheaper than the 252B? (It's gotta be cheaper than the 256C... right?)

Fieldman12
10-23-2007, 12:01 AM
Tigerrotor77W, that is what I kind of thought they was doing with still having the B series around. I mean lets face it you kind of limit your market if your machine is a good bit more than everyone else plus if they was any issues or for some reason it is not well received in the market as expected they still have something to fall back on for sales. I notice the ag companies doing this allot and it's on big ticket items such as combines. A local guy owns several Case IH dealerships and many other businesses. He has two 2388 combines and an 8010. The first year the 8010 did not have hardly any break downs. The second year it has been the biggest POS you could imagine. Good thing Case IH has the 2588 and the 2577 left for customers to fall back on. On a good note though when the combine runs it's a beast.

Tigerotor77W
10-23-2007, 04:37 PM
Fieldman, good story. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the B2 and C-series lines, because they're being built right next to each other now. You'd think that having five completely different machines (B2-series small radials -- 216-226; B2-series 236; B2-series 232 and 242; C-series radial; and C-series vertical) would be hugely wasteful in resources... but perhaps the B2-series is turning a huge profit and the checks are still rolling in. Who knows.

So, Bobcat, if you read this, get to work!

I'd put money on something coming out next year. Dunno what, but I'll at least have my fingers crossed. It's been too long, and Bobcat doesn't sit idle and twiddle their thumbs (...I don't think). :rolleyes:

Bobcat also does a great job of keeping its secrets secret until rollout.

iron peddler
10-23-2007, 05:17 PM
You'd think that having five completely different machines (B2-series small radials -- 216-226; B2-series 236; B2-series 232 and 242; C-series radial; and C-series vertical) would be hugely wasteful in resources... but perhaps the B2-series is turning a huge profit and the checks are still rolling in. Who knows.


how is that different thank Case/New Holland build machines in the same plant? the reason why is the large frames are more popular right now and the will convert the small frames over next year and 2009. the 236b and the 252b are benchmark machines and will not change alot until they know where the market is going.

Tigerotor77W
10-23-2007, 10:34 PM
how is that different thank Case/New Holland build machines in the same plant? the reason why is the large frames are more popular right now and the will convert the small frames over next year and 2009. the 236b and the 252b are benchmark machines and will not change alot until they know where the market is going.

True... I was still thinking [erroneously] that Case and NH were separate.

Heh.

aliving
10-31-2007, 08:37 PM
Took delivery of new Cat C series (272C) this month and have run it 120 hrs with Bradco Magnum mulcher. Awesome machine. Hands down a cadillac compared to the Mustang we still have. Air conditioner is excellent, only dust that gets in the cab is when you open the door. Cleaning out the machine is faster, doesn't run as hot and even have a reversing fan on the mustang. Only negative I can say is it is rougher riding. That is it does not gently stop as the Mustang does but come to an abrupt stop.

Mustang is hooked to a fecon mulcher. The Cat with magnum mulcher is much more productive. Faster response time from a stall etc. The Cat does have smaller clean out portals on the bellypan than the Mustang, but not as much debris gets in the engine and pump housing compartments. About every 100 hrs we would drop the evaparator core on the air conditioner to clean on the mustang to have cool air. Not so with the Cat. It is great!

Tigerotor77W
10-31-2007, 09:15 PM
Got any pics? Assuming the Mustang is a 2095, 2099, 2105, or 2109?

aliving
11-04-2007, 07:54 PM
mustang is a 2086.

Tigerotor77W
11-05-2007, 01:02 AM
Ah, okay. I had assumed that the 272C would be a replacement, not an addition.

But pics? :D (no pressure if you don't... just it seems that there's a lack of C-series pics right now... eek!)

YellowDogSVC
12-23-2007, 01:29 PM
YellowdogSVC,

Hey, if you want we can hook up down south. My primary ranch is just South of Alice, so about 1.5hrs south of San Antonio.

I would love to try a mulching head and it would give you a chance to look at and work a C series.

I am not positive but, I think it has plenty of pump and motor!


I think you would like CATs mower. Since I run it on Bobcat, it wont' run on a CAT as is due to the electrical connection was taken off. I think CAT machines use it for the high flow circuit to be activated? If you are up in this area and want to see or try out the mulcher head, I would be happy to show you. I really like it and though it's an FAE design, I think CAT has a few improvements. I have only replaced 1 tooth in over a year and that amazes me considering I work in limestone rock. Not sure how fast carbide wears in sand but I think it would do a better job and leave a nicer looking stump than a rotary. I ran the DAVCO for a couple of years and it threw wood everywhere. I like the control I have with a horizontal mower. The only drawback is the weight and fuel consumption. Even with your lift capacity, you are going to feel this attachments weight. IMO the attachment is over engineered which is a good thing for long term reliability but bad in the amount of steel which = weight.

YellowDogSVC
12-23-2007, 01:41 PM
[QUOTE=aliving;2017525]Took delivery of new Cat C series (272C) this month and have run it 120 hrs with Bradco Magnum mulcher. Awesome machine. Hands down a cadillac compared to the Mustang we still have. Air conditioner is QUOTE]

How's that CAT holding up? Are you still satisfied with the power?

bobcat_ron
12-23-2007, 02:59 PM
Here's a bump for that sweet looking Cat.

aliving
12-28-2007, 12:00 AM
[QUOTE=aliving;2017525]Took delivery of new Cat C series (272C) this month and have run it 120 hrs with Bradco Magnum mulcher. Awesome machine. Hands down a cadillac compared to the Mustang we still have. Air conditioner is QUOTE]

How's that CAT holding up? Are you still satisfied with the power?

Still holding up great. Love the power. No comparsion to the old Mustang 2086. Although still run a fecon mulcher and dymax rotating shear on it.

Tigerotor77W
12-28-2007, 12:47 PM
This thread -- titled "PICTURE OF 272C" -- keeps on coming back without pics! :sleeping:

YellowDogSVC
01-09-2008, 09:31 PM
What's the width of the 272c with just tires? You guys running them still happy?

bobcat_ron
01-10-2008, 09:42 AM
The Cat specs say 66", that's not right, more like 72" over the tires.

qzilla
02-03-2008, 04:28 PM
This thread -- titled "PICTURE OF 272C" -- keeps on coming back without pics! :sleeping:

Hey now, I posted pictures, just like I said I would!!!:laugh:

Here are a couple more. I don't take many pictures, I am too busy working. In order to understand how we are using it currently I will post some start to finish pictures.

What these pictures are of, is making fire breaks for some very intricate burn areas. These are all controlled or prescribed burn areas.

For this ranch we have over 100 miles of firebreaks that need to be installed. To speed this up I am cutting the "lines" with the 272C with a brush cutter mounted on the front. I am using the same low flow cutter I have been and have not had 1 single issue with it. Because I am just cutting the lines I am not backdragging to shred it completely.

Once I am done with the line we are using both a D6D and a D6R to come in and make the lane 1.5-2 blade widths wide. We are not trying to get every single tiny piece out of the firebreak but, we are doing the best between a balance of speed and appearance.

After the dozers are done we move in with a 425 offset disk pulled by a Kubota 108X.

Looks pretty good!

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG00010.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG00011.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2001.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2000.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2003.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2004.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_1998.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2006.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2005.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2010.jpg
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/qzillapower/IMG_2012.jpg

bobcat_ron
02-03-2008, 04:56 PM
Wow, that is some fun looking work, but isn't that a little narrow for a fire break? Seems like it should be at least 2 times wider.

Tigerotor77W
02-03-2008, 05:10 PM
Hey now, I posted pictures, just like I said I would!!!:laugh:

Excellent! So... how does the 272C do? (Power and all that gee-whiz)

qzilla
02-03-2008, 05:17 PM
Wow, that is some fun looking work, but isn't that a little narrow for a fire break? Seems like it should be at least 2 times wider.

It is between 20 and 25ft in all places. For controlled burns this is more than adequate. The fires are all started with a back burn as well.

Excellent! So... how does the 272C do? (Power and all that gee-whiz)

I have no complaints. It is impossible to stall the engine and pretty hard to stall the hydraulics on the attachement. Of course if they made a 150hp machine I would look at it because more is better right?

The only thing I think could be better is the hydraulic hose holder on the loader arm. It stinks and I don't use it but, that is really nit picking if you ask me!!

YellowDogSVC
02-03-2008, 05:35 PM
It is between 20 and 25ft in all places. For controlled burns this is more than adequate. The fires are all started with a back burn as well.



I have no complaints. It is impossible to stall the engine and pretty hard to stall the hydraulics on the attachement. Of course if they made a 150hp machine I would look at it because more is better right?

The only thing I think could be better is the hydraulic hose holder on the loader arm. It stinks and I don't use it but, that is really nit picking if you ask me!!

that would be a dream job for the cat mower. You could really lay down the shreds nicely with one of those on the front. Your mower seems to do the job, though, and I bet your fuel economy is a lot better!

Hummer
02-06-2008, 03:14 PM
qzilla,

Are you using GPS to know where to cut those lines?

CarterKraft
02-06-2008, 04:22 PM
You didn't ask me but I will tell you anyway, I have used GPS for that before and it works awesome. We cut several fence rows with no ligns of sight using a dozer. When we were finished they were dead on using a transit, so close infact we were able to set the stringlines with the cut and the fences are some of the straightest we've done.

Construct'O
02-06-2008, 04:52 PM
You didn't ask me but I will tell you anyway, I have used GPS for that before and it works awesome. We cut several fence rows with no ligns of sight using a dozer. When we were finished they were dead on using a transit, so close infact we were able to set the stringlines with the cut and the fences are some of the straightest we've done.

When your talking GPS are you talking the handheld GPS or what?????

If so or not ? what system and devices are you using? :usflag:

CarterKraft
02-06-2008, 08:01 PM
yes handheld. We just set points at the front and the back of the land and then followed the line. Once fence spanned the corner of a tank and is as close as you can get in alignement.

We just ziptied the GPS to the dash bar and took off.

BIGBEN2004
02-06-2008, 08:13 PM
A man at a job I was at a couple of weeks ago asked me if my radio in my skid steer was a GPS unit so I wouldn't get lost from the front yard to the back yard of the house I was working on. I just laughed at him and said you know it....

qzilla
02-06-2008, 09:09 PM
Everything I am cutting is off of a GPS but, I am doing it a little different.

Because what we are doing is pretty intricate I had to come up with a different plan.

I start with Google Earth Pro. From there I make paths which are the desired cut lines. I then hack to source file from Google Earth and then covert it to a GPX file and then load it in a GPS.

This allows me to follow intricate paths with all sorts of curvatures. I can also mark individual trees or motts to leave, cut down or cut around with this system.

If you just want to cut straight lines that is easy and can be done by just marking starting and stopping points as well as any other points you want to hit along the way. Then make a route and include all these way points and you can easily cut straight lines between them.

I will post up an example map tomorrow of what we are doing, it is pretty awesome.

Construct'O
02-06-2008, 09:57 PM
Thanks for the info so far,would like to see and hear more.The curved part was what i was wondering about.I started a thread just for GPS and work maybe you could post your info over there hopefully.

Will try checking out the Earth Pro thing on google.:confused::usflag: