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Mike M
10-03-2007, 03:59 PM
I am assuming a UPC device like controlscape's only controls LV transformers, and there is no way of controling specific runs/fixtures?

Is the solution to mount multiple smaller transformers?

Also, does anyone make a timer with a chip installed to account for changing sunrise/sunset times, DST, etc.? The only thing I see at the moment is this feature of the Controlscape.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike M
10-03-2007, 04:20 PM
UPB not UPC

JoeyD
10-03-2007, 04:51 PM
Mike-

I know Eddie (Eden Lights) can fill you in a bunch more than I can on automation but I can tell you there are ASTRONOMICAL timers out there that will plug into xfrmrs and or wire directly to your primay power circuit. As far as timing inline on specific runs I have not heard of any 12v appliations that allow you to have this kind of control. I would be very interested if there was. For now you would need to run smaller units and control the units powering the lights. Now if you had 120v lights such as carrigae lamps or lanterns there are inline relays you can wire and designate on and off settings. Controlscape is a great unit to use, very easy to install and program and it does not require a computer interface

Joey D.

Mike M
10-03-2007, 05:14 PM
Thanks, Joey.

Yeah, I was thinking maybe in the future, with the use of LED's, they'll have drivers to control the fixtures from a remote source.

Also, which astronomical timers do you recommend?

I hope Eddie doesn't pass up this question thinking it's a post about bar-coding. :confused:

Mike

JoeyD
10-03-2007, 05:49 PM
Mike,

Here you go..

http://www.intermatic.com/images/catalog/pages/043.pdf

http://www.intermatic.com/images/misc/dt27c_10008.pdf

Hope this helps

Mike M
10-03-2007, 09:19 PM
Cool, thanks!

I had to laugh when the second file popped up with the UPC bar code.

sprinkler guy
10-04-2007, 01:48 AM
Mike,

Here is an option for control of individual legs of lights through an X-10 setup. I've used this a couple of times for small scenes on patios and for BBQs. The relays on the board are limited to 5 amps each, so you can't put too much on each relay.

http://www.resconsys.com/products/relay/8%20Channel.htm

Pro-Scapes
10-04-2007, 08:25 AM
intermatic does make an astronomical in trans timer. We have several of them out there with ZERO probs so far. Only issue is they put the plug on the wrong side of the timer. Not a prob in most transformers that the MDL timers normally fit in but in the kichler boxes you need to pop out the timer socket inside the trans and invert it. Takes 5 min to do this and I usually do it at home the night before an install.

They will do everything your asking for but there is no control for seperate legs or anything. It switches the trans on and off. It will calculate sunrise and sunset and allow you to program your own times as well. You can also program it day to day so if your clients want the lights on later on weekends its no issue. I get em from FOLD/SOLD and they are around half the price of the MDL timers from cast or kichler.

Mike M
10-04-2007, 03:23 PM
Thanks Billy,

I'll give them a try.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-04-2007, 04:09 PM
On the UPB thread: Have you guys looked at Simply Automated UPB controls?

I know controlscape is marketing directly to the landscape lighting industry but I have some of their units here and I am not very impressed by the fit and finish. The units just look very cheap and I wouldn't put them in my client's homes.

Simply Automated on the other hand has a large array of components and the modules are quite nice. They are available in a wide range of colours to match decor and existing controls. I am just starting to use these and the clients are quite impressed. I just got my first 'whole home' retrofit project (using HAI UPB system) which should be a blast.

Any experience you might have had with Simply Automated (good or bad) would be appreciated.

Mike M
10-04-2007, 07:29 PM
http://simply-automated.com/

Looks good. The promo price looks great.

Thanks for the info,

Mike

Eden Lights
10-04-2007, 11:35 PM
I am assuming a UPC device like controlscape's only controls LV transformers, and there is no way of controling specific runs/fixtures?

Is the solution to mount multiple smaller transformers?

Also, does anyone make a timer with a chip installed to account for changing sunrise/sunset times, DST, etc.? The only thing I see at the moment is this feature of the Controlscape.

Thanks,

Mike

ControlScape can control most any UPB device: dimmer, switch, lamp module, appliance module, or receptacle. Use the right device for your load.

Small multiple transformers is always a plus when your trying to create different scenes.

Upb is hard to beat.

Eden Lights
10-04-2007, 11:45 PM
On the UPB thread: Have you guys looked at Simply Automated UPB controls?

I know controlscape is marketing directly to the landscape lighting industry but I have some of their units here and I am not very impressed by the fit and finish. The units just look very cheap and I wouldn't put them in my client's homes.

Simply Automated on the other hand has a large array of components and the modules are quite nice. They are available in a wide range of colours to match decor and existing controls. I am just starting to use these and the clients are quite impressed. I just got my first 'whole home' retrofit project (using HAI UPB system) which should be a blast.

Any experience you might have had with Simply Automated (good or bad) would be appreciated.

I wouldn't want any of my clients interfacing with any of the three UPB controllers: ControlScape, PSC, and or Simply-Automated. Out of the three though only the ControlScape unit can even be used for this anyway.

Eden Lights
10-05-2007, 12:04 AM
Simply Automated on the other hand has a large array of components and the modules are quite nice. They are available in a wide range of colours to match decor and existing controls. I am just starting to use these and the clients are quite impressed. I just got my first 'whole home' retrofit project (using HAI UPB system) which should be a blast.

Simply-Automated doesn't offer any led keypads only various 1-8 button faceplates for their dimmers which give you kind of old school look and no led feedback. We used them some very early on, but found that clients would rather upgrade to a HAI, PCS, or ControlScape 6 or 8 Button keypad for a interface that is much more functional and much more ascetically pleasing. We still carry some SA dimmers and all the keypads for that low-end client that wants control of a load and some keypad function by only buying one dimmer. (6 & 8 button led keypads do not directly control a load) Also printing the SA faceplates is a nightmare for me, engraving is the only way to go.

Are you saying that your clients like the SA dimmers and various faceplates??

Congratulations on your job! Are you programming your stuff with a HAI panel or are going to be programming with Upstart??

If I can help in anyway please let me know??

Here are some pics of a SA faceplated dimmer vs. the ControlScape, HAI, or PCS dtyle led keypad.

Eden Lights
10-05-2007, 12:40 AM
Any experience you might have had with Simply Automated (good or bad) would be appreciated.

This whole UPB thing is new and all the products have had issues and the controllers have had several issues. Every controller is very different and it's features are something that should be reviewed and evaluated so you can make a educated decision about what's best for your business and your clients.

One thing to think about is that all of my major problems outside of the small controller problems that have been fixed has been due to noise and sometimes that can not be fixed, filtered or removed. With that being said PCS which is the patent holder of UPB has introduced some Generation II devices that work much better in Noisy environments. From what I understand Simply-Automated will not be upgrading their products to Gen II devices and if that is true I will only be using the PCS and Control Scape products in the future because I have already seen a major difference in the field between the two appliance modules when in a noisy environment. SA is a great company, I love the inverting phase coupler and Brad in tech support is one of the best out there, but I want to see UPB be 100% reliable, not just 90 something %.

JoeyD
10-05-2007, 09:19 AM
I told you Eddie would have something for ya here!! I am nominating Eddie the official Automation spokesman for Lawnsite!!!!

I have had nothing but good experiences with Simply Automated products.

Eden Lights
10-05-2007, 09:38 AM
Remember that UPB is a protocol and all the brands inter-operate. I am the kind of guy that likes to the best from several companies.

Lite4
10-05-2007, 09:53 AM
Eddie,
I have never done any automation in any of my homes yet, but would like to. This question may sound a bit elementary so please bear with me. It would apear as though you can choode to have some lights on and some lights off at different times, but why? I have yet to run into a customer who does not want all the lights on all the time. I am sure there are many more puposes for this, could you please educate me a little bit.
Thanks

Eden Lights
10-05-2007, 10:20 AM
Eddie,
I have never done any automation in any of my homes yet, but would like to. This question may sound a bit elementary so please bear with me. It would apear as though you can choode to have some lights on and some lights off at different times, but why? I have yet to run into a customer who does not want all the lights on all the time. I am sure there are many more puposes for this, could you please educate me a little bit.
Thanks

I am on a design deadline and we will discuss this more later, but one example that I have done lately is down lights on a arbor. One has a theater scene which lowers the arbor lts for movies and the other was a fireplace scene that lowers the lts just enough to build your smore.