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SiteSolutions
10-07-2007, 11:08 PM
My new T-190 broke down on me last week.

I was digging along and all of a sudden, I get three beeps and no more travel. The loader arms and aux hydraulics still function, but the "traction" light went out and the thing would no longer move itself around.

It's been at the dealer since Thursday and they told me last thing Friday that they ordered a new controller and a new wiring harness. They also said they shipped them ground. May be late this week before I am back digging again.

Does anybody else have SJC on their Bobcat? Seen any problems like this? From the error codes it was throwing, my guess is the power supply in the little brain that interprets the input from the joysticks got fried.

I have only had this machine about 4 months, only have a little over 300 hours on it. I must say that this sort of thing is not confidence inspiring. I have used a little of my unexpected time off to shop around at a couple other dealers and ask them a lot of questions about their warranties.

GradeMan
10-07-2007, 11:12 PM
Gotta hate that eh, Did they at least give you a loaner machine? That's one thing about with the big boys You break down they float you a machine without hesitation no questions asked. Sorry to hear that your having problems already

RockSet N' Grade
10-07-2007, 11:32 PM
They screwed you on the shipping. When something like that happens, it should be shipped "red" which means next day. Cost difference in freight is minimal, cost difference to you in down time is big. Don't let that happen again. Insist that they ship "red" and they eat the extra cost.

leathelbuzzkill
10-07-2007, 11:40 PM
break down= sux ::cry: :cry:
are you thinking about switching skid steer loader manufacturers?

SiteSolutions
10-07-2007, 11:44 PM
They screwed you on the shipping. When something like that happens, it should be shipped "red" which means next day. Cost difference in freight is minimal, cost difference to you in down time is big. Don't let that happen again. Insist that they ship "red" and they eat the extra cost.

Yeah, I was not real happy with that. They coulda fed-exed it or at least shipped UPS Red. Hell, I coulda run up to ND and picked up the parts this weekend! I probably will only lose Friday and maybe one or two days this week; I have some tractor work I can go do tomorrow and maybe one more day this week.

They already told me the mechanic coming out to get it moving and onto my trailer wasn't covered. They let me use a rental unit Thursday afternoon but asked that I bring it back that evening if at all possible. I don't really like to have to explain to people how they should treat customers; usually if someone screws around with me, I don't bother getting mad, I just stop dealing with them.

Still, they have been a good bunch to deal with in the past about loaning a machine, fixing stuff inexpensively, etc, so I am a little puzzled about this apparent B.S... I mean, honestly, can you imagine treating any of your customers this way? I don't think it qualifies as "taking advantage of" but I am sure it is "taking for granted"

Maybe I will put in a call to the main office down in Birmingham to ask WTF they are doing.

SiteSolutions
10-07-2007, 11:48 PM
break down= sux ::cry: :cry:
are you thinking about switching skid steer loader manufacturers?

This is my third Bobcat and they have mostly done what I asked of them so far. I am always considering what else is out there but it is a big deal to my operation to move to a new brand... they all have quirks and issues and certain things that experienced owners / operators know about them that I will have to learn all over again if I go to a diff brand. That, and winter is the wrong time to get into a new machine. We'll see how it plays out.

I was just fishing to see if I can expect more of this down the road or if this is just a fluke.

GradeMan
10-08-2007, 12:11 AM
Time to turn to new holland, or cat. I hate when dealerships play those games

YellowDogSVC
10-08-2007, 12:17 AM
I am always considering what else is out there but it is a big deal to my operation to move to a new brand... they all have quirks and issues and certain things that experienced owners / operators know about them that I will have to learn all over again if I go to a diff brand. That, and winter is the wrong time to get into a new machine. We'll see how it plays out..

Ain't that the truth! :dizzy:

SiteSolutions
10-08-2007, 12:17 AM
It's fall break this week; the Cat salesman took off for Florida with his family on Friday so it will be a few days before I can take a look at a Cat.

I have a fair relationship with the NH dealer as I rent his Takeuchi mini-ex all the time. Haven't ever thought of NH as a step up from the Bobcat, maybe more of a lateral move? But I guess it wouldn't hurt to at least look at one, would it?

YellowDogSVC
10-08-2007, 12:23 AM
I bet Huntsville is starting to turn pretty as the leaves are starting to change..
good luck on the other brands. Major reason why I don't change often.. I get used to a certain brand, in my operation it's bobcat, but if bobcat won't keep up, i will have to make the learning curve on a new CAT loader. Same goes for Vermeer..better keep up with the competition.

GradeMan
10-08-2007, 12:23 AM
No it wouldn't hurt, Beside just think how That 35 th anniversary Machine would look in the fleet. " They said HER favorite color was chrome":laugh:

Scag48
10-08-2007, 02:34 AM
I'd go in there beating the door down that they get you overnight shipping or you get a loaner machine. My Cat dealer would have that part in stock and if they don't it's free, let alone there the next day. No thanks, Bobcat.

accurate machinery
10-08-2007, 12:33 PM
You guys are tough! Machines break! I dont' care who's brand it is, go into the shop and see all the late model machines in the shop with some kind of warranty repair taking place. Some manufacturers might be better than others but even the best will have a failure some where with a low hour late model piece.
The thing that makes a difference is the treatment during the downtime. If you didn't insist on a loaner then it might be your mistake. Sometimes a customer doesn't need a loaner so the dealer might not offer one. Like you said you had some other jobs you could do without the Bobcat in the meantime, if you were only doing the T190 work then you would have insisted on a loaner and probably gotten one. If your dealer doesn't have a loaner then a reduced rate rental with the possibility of a reimbursement from Bobcat would be in order.
Machinery has to work in a tough environment, 300 hours might not seem like a lot of hours but if just one electrical connecter came loose it could throw the system into a funk and shut it's self down as a safety protecting the rest of the system. The dealer probably ordered more parts than they need to cover the codes they were given so that when you bring the machine in it gets fixed for sure. I doubt that they tore the machine down and actually tested each component. They might start on the repair find a simple loose electrical contact and put it back in service very quickly. You would never know it because they have say they used the ordered parts in order to make the warranty claim.
I guess a few years in service makes me try to look from the service side of things. I hope your Bobcat is quickly up and running and your faith is restored in your machine.

GradeMan
10-08-2007, 05:00 PM
I just think that you have to be hoar when comes to dealing with the dealers, don't keep all your eggs in one basket!

Scag48
10-08-2007, 05:46 PM
I understand the service end of things, you can't expect a machine to be back on the beat within 12 hours. But when you're spending as much on a small machine as a nice German car and you're using it to make money, a loaner machine from the dealer should be first priority. I agree, if you don't ask for one, they definately aren't going to give you one. Our Cat dealer always treated us very well when we had issues. When our 216 went down due to cavitation in the cooling system, we had a rental machine for 2 weeks while they figured it out. I rented a 312 and a hammer last summer to assist our 312 in busting and loading rock. The hammer was darn near new, but it blew an o-ring after 6 or 7 hours. Of course I didn't have a flat style o-ring, it's a specialty Cat o-ring for the hammer, so on a Saturday our sales rep. met us at the shop on his day off to make sure we had the right part. That's what we pay for and until the service we recieve changes for the worse, we'lll stay with Cat.

kreft
10-08-2007, 08:32 PM
over 500 hrs on my NH and no problems at all. I think its time to make the switch.:)

Canon Landscaping
10-08-2007, 08:48 PM
Go see Doug at Trigreen in Huntsville and get a Deere CT322 we have bought 2 machines from him and we have recieved great service.

Fieldman12
10-08-2007, 09:01 PM
I think my biggest compaint was that the parts where not there the next day. Im my honest opinion that is not good. I just heard from out local Case IH dealership that there having allot of problems getting parts. They have a brand new 8010 combine around back that has all kinds of parts robbed off it. Also having problems getting magnum parts. The next complaint I would have is that they did not give you a loaner. Only thing though what if they dont have a machine on the lot? They would have to get you one somewhere. Im not totaly sold on the computer stuff in machines. it works great when it works but it can also cause you allot of downtime you would have never had before with a more mechanical machine. They say the opposite though that the computerized is better. To each his own.

tthomass
10-08-2007, 09:13 PM
T190 w/ 550ish hrs.........run wide open all day and hard for the past two weeks without an issue......hammer breaker, rockhound, forks busting out rocks, trencher, buckets etc. Crank it, warm it up and balls to the wall until either lunch or time to go home. Blow out the air filter (helluva dusty site), lube it up and roll.

I'm not a Bobcat ***** and bought it because of the great deal I got on the machine and setup along with it. TL130 is a good machine and I think better......smoother, not as loud but again, I got a deal so I can't complain.

YellowDogSVC
10-08-2007, 09:17 PM
I understand the service end of things, you can't expect a machine to be back on the beat within 12 hours. But when you're spending as much on a small machine as a nice German car and you're using it to make money, a loaner machine from the dealer should be first priority. I agree, if you don't ask for one, they definately aren't going to give you one. Our Cat dealer always treated us very well when we had issues. .

I think you have to ask. the worst thing they could say is "no". If I was going to be down for a long period, I would at least ask to rent at a discount. Again, worst case, "no" but if they are a big dealer and want to keep you happy, "yes" is easy to say especially if you are known to take care of your equipment (hint for all you guys that don't keep a machine clean).

xcopterdoc
10-08-2007, 09:35 PM
In my going on 35 plus years working on this crap and that crap, I can honestly say, color doesnt matter! What matters is the dealers service department and how they react to your needs. I deal daily with CNH, Bobcat/IR, Deere ect. The infrastructure is there to take care of your customers. Yur sheeet breaks and it's under warranty AND it's not an operator abuse thing, then yur parts should be NDA. Shops get backlogged. Now if I know, as a service mgr, that even if I did get the part NDA, I would have no one available to put it on, guess what.. I 2 day air it, or I ground it. Gives me lead time to finish all those ahead of you and allows me time to put a guy on it to spend the time that the repair requires. All this of course would be explained to you, the customer, up front.
As far as loaners and dealers go... when I worked at the dealer, IF we had one, by all means we would let you have it. If we didnt, guess what.. Sorry. It's not LAW that if yur 300 hr machine breaks, you get a loaner. Would be nice, as yes, it sux for you and I wish it were different, but real world.. no such thing. All depends on the dealer and how far he will go for you.

leathelbuzzkill
10-08-2007, 09:43 PM
look at the comp even of you don't like them and try their skid steers. who knows you might change your mind. i prefer new Holland or john Deere because of stability:)

SiteSolutions
10-08-2007, 09:46 PM
Yeah, I could probably talk those guys into a loaner if I had something really pressing; guess I'm just going through withdrawals. Helluva lotta money (just made the payment) tied up in that thing and I guess I am just antsy about it.

I guess the service guy thought I didn't want next day on the parts but I can't imagine how he got that impression.

SiteSolutions
10-08-2007, 09:49 PM
Go see Doug at Trigreen in Huntsville and get a Deere CT322 we have bought 2 machines from him and we have recieved great service.

I talked to Doug today; he's a great guy. I just got a grapple from him last week, at a great price.

I told him I would demo a 322 as soon as they get joysticks and a well-sealed cab, which might be in a year or less. I drove a buddy's 322 this summer briefly and it had a lot of guts but was a little spartan inside.

Where in TN do you work? Must be nearby?

Canon Landscaping
10-08-2007, 10:23 PM
We have two locations one in Shelbyville one in Tullahoma.

leathelbuzzkill
10-08-2007, 10:24 PM
there is always new Hollands new redesigned cab go to http://www.greatestskidsteer.newholland.com/

RockSet N' Grade
10-08-2007, 10:28 PM
What Xcopterdoc says! Service, Service, Service.........

leathelbuzzkill
10-08-2007, 10:37 PM
true if you pay out your a** for a skid steer service better be top notch. make sure you are happy with what you buy. Don't let any one talk you into a purchase unless you are happy with it.

SiteSolutions
10-08-2007, 11:00 PM
Don't get me wrong, up until a few days ago I have had nothing but great experience with the machine and the dealer... I just wish the saleman had worked as hard to kiss my butt when I brought it in with a problem as he did a few months ago when he wanted me to buy the thing. Guess the honeymoon is over.:rolleyes:

xcopterdoc
10-08-2007, 11:09 PM
Stuff breaks, known fact. Be it 3 different shades of yellow, white and orange, whatever. It's the person behind the sign out front that makes the difference. PERIOD. I don't care if you have bought 10 machines in 10 months and payed over book on each and every one, If the service mgr is an ass.. you'll get NOTHING! As a good customer, make your intentions very clear from the start, a no BS, but very polite attitude goes a long way! If you walk in pissed off and demanding on day one... you'll walk out pissed off with no help what so ever.

leathelbuzzkill
10-08-2007, 11:11 PM
could not have said it better myself

xcopterdoc
10-08-2007, 11:15 PM
Not meaning to say you were an ass or not polite SiteSolutions. Sometimes the sales dept and the service dept are not in tune with each other. It's a MUST and was required when I was a dealer tech that the sales and service dept support each other. It works the same way in the rental biz too. Talk to the general mgr or owner. Rock the boat a lil. Squeeky wheel gets grease!

SiteSolutions
10-09-2007, 12:25 AM
Not that I took your post to mean that you assumed I was being an a-hole. I guess I should have been more assertive, though. Probably wouldn't have gotten me much (if any) further, the way things feel around there lately.

The service manager was running the whole store for awhile and things went very smoothly. He's got a lot of knowledge and has always been a big help. Recently, tho, the front part of the store has gone to the top salesman, with the service guy only running service. The service manager says they didn't want to pony up a store manager salary; they just wanted him to do the work. He told them to find somebody else to run the front half. So there's less harmony there.

Also, when I asked about a loaner last week, the front-of-store guys said that they have gotten their p3ck3r slapped for that and are real shy about doing it now; apparently the home office down in Pelham is funny about helping out good customers. I was glad they let me have the one machine for a few hours. It just seems like the whole operation is not being run right at the top, if guys are semi-afraid to do you a good turn because they could get in trouble for it.

If it was up to the service manager, I would probably still have a loaner sitting in my driveway even if I didn't need it. Heck, even the salesman or rental counter / parts guy would probably do that much. But everybody is saying their hands are tied; that's no way to run an operation IMO. They are killing the golden goose by taking a penny-pinching approach to my needs as a customer, which would eventually lead to me not being a customer anymore, if they don't fix it.

I called the main office today but they -of course- just passed the buck.

SiteSolutions
10-09-2007, 12:29 AM
But the main reason I started the thread was I was hoping to hear from other SJC owners whether they have had much grief out of the joysticks. I guess I hi-jacked my own thread.;)

Scag48
10-09-2007, 03:03 AM
I'd be looking around for a new dealer, if they really valued your business they'd make something happen for you.

dozerman21
10-09-2007, 07:54 AM
SS- When I had my T300 I had a similar problem (I won't even get into the dealer). My machine would move, but my boom arms and bucket were locked. I also had the beeps (very annoying when you're broke down:hammerhead: ). After it took the dealer 3 days to find the problem and fix it, the problem ended up being the boom/bucket actuator and sensor that activates the pumps. It cost around $850 to have repaired. About a third of that was labor and time finding the problem.:rolleyes:

Just my $0.02, but while it doesn't hurt to keep your eyes open for a deal or just to see what's out there, I'd hang on to your machine for a while. You'll take a big hit on that if you trade it in, especially if you swith to a different brand. I traded mine shortly after I made this repair, but this was more of a last straw kind of deal for me. I had several other low hour repairs, and I wasn't happy with the dealer either, so I wanted to unload mine while it was running good.

JDSKIDSTEER
10-10-2007, 06:41 AM
Matt, Did you get your T190 back yet? If you get in a bind and have a small job to do I would be glad to demo you CT322 if you will clean it up. I figure the more seat time you get the more you will think of me when we have a machine that meets your needs.

JDSKIDSTEER
10-10-2007, 06:52 AM
You guys are tough! Machines break! I dont' care who's brand it is, go into the shop and see all the late model machines in the shop with some kind of warranty repair taking place. Some manufacturers might be better than others but even the best will have a failure some where with a low hour late model piece.
The thing that makes a difference is the treatment during the downtime. If you didn't insist on a loaner then it might be your mistake. Sometimes a customer doesn't need a loaner so the dealer might not offer one. Like you said you had some other jobs you could do without the Bobcat in the meantime, if you were only doing the T190 work then you would have insisted on a loaner and probably gotten one. If your dealer doesn't have a loaner then a reduced rate rental with the possibility of a reimbursement from Bobcat would be in order.
Machinery has to work in a tough environment, 300 hours might not seem like a lot of hours but if just one electrical connecter came loose it could throw the system into a funk and shut it's self down as a safety protecting the rest of the system. The dealer probably ordered more parts than they need to cover the codes they were given so that when you bring the machine in it gets fixed for sure. I doubt that they tore the machine down and actually tested each component. They might start on the repair find a simple loose electrical contact and put it back in service very quickly. You would never know it because they have say they used the ordered parts in order to make the warranty claim.
I guess a few years in service makes me try to look from the service side of things. I hope your Bobcat is quickly up and running and your faith is restored in your machine.It is a tough business. Sometimes no matter what you do with some customers it is never right. I have customers that never have problems, and then I have some that have problems. It is like they are jinxed. I have some that abuse their machinery, I give them a loaner and therefore they have little down time and then they go back to the dealer that they left a couple years earlier because of similar breakdown problems but left them because they wanted to charge the rent instead of loan. I have the best reputation in town for keeping my customers going, but sometimes that is not good enough. And sometimes it is best that they become another dealers problem.

SiteSolutions
10-10-2007, 08:53 AM
It is a tough business. Sometimes no matter what you do with some customers it is never right. I have customers that never have problems, and then I have some that have problems. It is like they are jinxed. I have some that abuse their machinery, I give them a loaner and therefore they have little down time and then they go back to the dealer that they left a couple years earlier because of similar breakdown problems but left them because they wanted to charge the rent instead of loan. I have the best reputation in town for keeping my customers going, but sometimes that is not good enough. And sometimes it is best that they become another dealers problem.

Yup, those yeller machines are still sitting in front of the BC dealer... :laugh:

JDSKIDSTEER
10-10-2007, 09:03 AM
Yup, those yeller machines are still sitting in front of the BC dealer... :laugh:
They aint goin no where because everyone knows who owned them..Still got his decals on them..I had to ship his BC trade in's to a wholesaler out of state.;)

ksss
10-10-2007, 10:54 AM
I would hang on to the BC for a while unless you are really unhappy with it. Going into Winter (whatever that means in Huntsville) it may be best to hold tight. All colors break, it just depends on how it is handled. Being on good terms with the salesman is good, being on good terms with the service manager, the techs and the parts guys are probably even more important. Everytime time I am in the dealer I make it a point to talk to all of them. They know me by name. Believe me it makes a big difference. I have gotten loaners if needed since day one (8-17-94), I get demo time on front end loaders, and excavators when needed. It is a partnership that has to be mutally benificial to both kinda like marriage :dizzy:. I am very lucky to have great support and I buy enough stuff from them that they can justify giving me what I ask for usually. If your not getting that then that would be more reason to start shopping for a new machine/partnership.

What concerns me most about this thread is they did not do everything they could to get you up and going. Not overnighting your parts is a huge mistake. Certainly they could have let you "demo" a machine for at least 8 hours if not given you a loaner. It appears that you were not treated very well from what was posted here. I saw those Deere machines sitting at the BC dealer in Huntsville, I thought there was a story behind that (as there always is) people don't often change colors without a story.

I have heard of the Bobcats struggling with electrical problems in the hand controls. Even the salesman have acknowledged that. The more techno these machines get (all colors and makes) the more delicate they become it seems. That gadgetry comes at a price (called down time) when when one processor cant talk to another. There is no wrench turning on these things. Extended warranties are more important now than ever. At least that cost is known upfront and can be managed. Downtime costs will always be an unknown. The time of purchase is also a good time to put into contract the cost or terms of loaners when the purchased machine goes down.

JDSKIDSTEER
10-10-2007, 11:03 AM
I would hang on to the BC for a while unless you are really unhappy with it. Going into Winter (whatever that means in Huntsville) it may be best to hold tight. All colors break, it just depends on how it is handled. Being on good terms with the salesman is good, being on good terms with the service manager, the techs and the parts guys are probably even more important. Everytime time I am in the dealer I make it a point to talk to all of them. They know me by name. Believe me it makes a big difference. I have gotten loaners if needed since day one (8-17-94), I get demo time on front end loaders, and excavators when needed. It is a partnership that has to be mutally benificial to both kinda like marriage :dizzy:. I am very lucky to have great support and I buy enough stuff from them that they can justify giving me what I ask for usually. If your not getting that then that would be more reason to start shopping for a new machine/partnership.

What concerns me most about this thread is they did not do everything they could to get you up and going. Not overnighting your parts is a huge mistake. Certainly they could have let you "demo" a machine for at least 8 hours if not given you a loaner. It appears that you were not treated very well from what was posted here. I saw those Deere machines sitting at the BC dealer in Huntsville, I thought there was a story behind that (as there always is) people don't often change colors without a story.

I have heard of the Bobcats struggling with electrical problems in the hand controls. Even the salesman have acknowledged that. The more techno these machines get (all colors and makes) the more delicate they become it seems. That gadgetry comes at a price (called down time) when when one processor cant talk to another. There is no wrench turning on these things. Extended warranties are more important now than ever. At least that cost is known upfront and can be managed. Downtime costs will always be an unknown. The time of purchase is also a good time to put into contract the cost or terms of loaners when the purchased machine goes down.I agree.......Would be a extreemly good idea to build up some equity also. If you have no equity you need to keep 3 or 4 years.Otherwise you can dig yourself a whole you cannot get out of. Like I told you when you were shopping, if they have taken care of you why switch. They may just have made some bad judgement calls. A lot of parts and service people are good at what they do, but do not realize how to prioritize. Most do not get paid enough to care and had a bad day and did not care that day. Back when I was a parts man at big iron dealer I would always call the customer and get his blessing on ups red. Unfortunatly every once in a while they drop the ball, they are usualy doing the job of 2 or 3. Salesmans hands may have been tied. May be one of those crazy weeks where he need all his loaner machines in 20 places. Never hurts to ask for another one and see if he can supply. Always look at the big picture. It is not a perfect world. Try not to burn bridges.

Scag48
10-10-2007, 06:20 PM
As a note, when I mentioned earlier in the thread that looking for another dealer might be a good plan, I'm suggesting the same as the above 2 posts. Hold on to the machine you have now even though the service is less than adequate. You'll take it in the nose if you sell the machine now. Hold out unless you're really unhappy with the machine then when you go to replace this machine I wouldn't even give your current dealer another look.

As mentioned, regardless of who the machine is built by, they do break down. That is a fact. it's almost irrelevant that your machine is a Bobcat. The bigger picture is how fast that machine is up an running. This is why I can't stand it when guys ask questions like "what's the best skid steer made?" or "Who has the biggest, baddest skid out there?". To me, if you can't couple the performance of the machine to a excellent partnership with your dealer when, not if, but WHEN that machine goes down, you have a less than desireable situation on your hands. Just my .02

GradeMan
10-10-2007, 07:43 PM
I agree, It is alot like a marriage,. but if she cheating. kick her out! I know around here the John Deere dealer always loved to replace a new machine of the competition and offered real good money on a trade in.They all breakdown but the company that has you back to work the fastest { with the least amount of money coming out of my pocket} gets my business. Just simply tell them that you need that machine to put the bread on your supper table.

Fieldman12
10-10-2007, 08:58 PM
I would keep what you have for now. You will take a beating on it if you get rid of it this soon. I would not be affraid though of letting them know if they want to keep your business they better keep your machine moving.

vntgrcr
10-10-2007, 10:13 PM
I have a year old 190 that died on me last month with the exact same symptoms. i called the dealer, they sent someone out and we lifted the cab. After looking around, we noticed a wiring harness hanging, not connected. All of a sudden we could see a broken connector and 2 other pulled apart. This was all because some ass at the factory didn't take the time to attacht the 2 wire harness clips to the attachment points on the chassis!! I still don't know how they got torn out of the connectors, but it was total lack of attention to detail and assembly at the factory. They plugged everything back together, fastened/secured correctly and all is well.........for the time being. I am still not sure of this machine. Mine too had about 340 hours.

xcopterdoc
10-10-2007, 10:20 PM
Oh yeah, the computer stuff is a blast! Hopefully whoever comes out to troubleshoot it actually spends more than 5 minutes doing so. I've been to many of the factory schools. One thing EVERY factory guy had to say... We sure do get alot of computers and boards returned for warranty that aren't bad! Same with hyd pumps, especially variable displacement piston pumps. There's 2 companies that really stand out in my mind... when I call their tech support hotline and have a problem, they connect me with someone who actually knows whats going on. And that is John Deere and Case. Kobelco is hit and miss, JCB is like forget it.. yur on yur own!
Gotta agree with the last couple 3 posts.. hang in there! Hopefully it was diagnosed correctly and with parts and a lil labor, you'll be on yur way!

SiteSolutions
10-10-2007, 10:49 PM
Service Manager called right after 4:00; said they have got the new controller in it and have spent 30-45 minutes driving it to try to make sure it doesn't fail. Looks like I will get it back in the morning.

GradeMan
10-10-2007, 10:52 PM
Good luck, Ask him if hes going to make your payment this month, because you lost a job with your skid being tied up in the shop

SiteSolutions
10-10-2007, 11:04 PM
The local guys aren't really the problem; the home office for our dealer is 100+ miles south of here. They're the ones making it difficult for the local dealership to do a good job. Like I said, 6 months or a year ago, exact same cast of characters, I would not have had this problem.

I tried to convey my dissatisfaction to the home office but they just called back up to Huntsville and crapped all over the service manager; now I feel terrible for saying anything. I have had a great relationship with those guys; I sure hope all this hasn't messed that up.

SiteSolutions
10-10-2007, 11:05 PM
Try not to burn bridges.

Maybe they found out I got that grapple from you?:laugh:

JDSKIDSTEER
10-11-2007, 06:18 AM
Maybe they found out I got that grapple from you?:laugh:Surely not. They love me.

GradeMan
10-11-2007, 05:50 PM
I tried to convey my dissatisfaction to the home office but they just called back up to Huntsville and crapped all over the service manager; now I feel terrible for saying anything. I have had a great relationship with those guys; I sure hope all this hasn't messed that up.[/QUOTE]

Don't let those jackass let you feel that way, Remind them they have a paycheck because of you. Ask then What are they going to do when you have a problem in the future under warranty. Then if you don't like the answer or mumbling time to change brands


I personally run equipment with warranty that gets alot of hours. So then when its time to go to work last thing i'm worrying about is what were going to do without that piece of equipment. Just my >.02

SiteSolutions
10-11-2007, 11:40 PM
Yeah, I was really fortunate to have this once-a-year tractor work to do this week. My homebuilder has cranked back up and will be ready for me soon, and it would kill me to not be able to go work for him as soon as he is ready.

I just meant to say that I personally like and have benefitted from knowing the service manager, and it sucks that some higher-ups two counties away are screwing up the good will that he has worked hard to create.

Construct'O
10-12-2007, 09:24 AM
Maybe next time it rains or you have a spare day ,might not hurt to drive the two countys over and have a personal talk to the heads at the main office face to face.

Chew on them awhile and see what happens and tell them the problem is more over at the main office.Also tell them what you expect about a loaner,if yours goes down under warrenty again.Just a suggestion take if for what it's worth!!!!!!!!! :usflag:

SiteSolutions
10-28-2007, 11:07 PM
The loader broke again after they fixed it. Went back to the shop, and they put new harness, new computer, and new joysticks in it. It rained all week last week so I haven't run it more than ten minutes yet. Going out tomorrow for a half day job and hopefully this is resolved.

turboawd
10-29-2007, 12:33 AM
not trying to bash here, but why does it seem that it's always bobcat with the control problems?

accurate machinery
10-29-2007, 09:46 AM
The jargon that I pick up is, Bobcat could not meet demand so they were producing machines faster than the vendors could produce some of the parts, including the pilot controls. Hence the pilot controls have become the root of many of the problems. Now with a new owner (Doosan), rumors of Union issues at the US factory and layoff's, I don't know if we should expect things to get better. At least now they should be able to keep up with demand and maybe that will help them with reliability.

SiteSolutions
10-29-2007, 05:07 PM
Ran for an hour this morning and then the three beeps, dead in the water symptoms returned. At least the dealer gave me a loaner this time. They've got a new store manager so that helps. I don't know much about the law but I wonder if I can force them to take it back after the third time it breaks down for the same thing? I think there is a "lemon law" here for cars to that effect, if they can't fix it then they will take it back. I have to say this is frustrating; it was a great loader for the first 300 hours. Now I'm wishing I had shopped around a little further from home.

The machine now has:
-4th set of joysticks since new
-3rd joystick computer since new
-2nd joystick wiring harness since new

They are now figuring out how to get at some sensors and wiring that are under the hydrostats; seems like they may have to take the whole engine out to get to them. And I told them I would have the loaner back tomorrow afternoon. I doubt they will even have the problem fully diagnosed by that time. :dizzy:

I told them I am thinking about getting an ASV. Told them I can budget for replacing the tracks every year; can't budget for "sh1t don't work"...

Fieldman12
10-29-2007, 05:42 PM
Ouch, that stinks having to pay for a piece of machinery that at this time is costing you more ways than one. At least you have a loaner. I would have told them I'm not bringing the loaner back until my machine is fixed and I know it's fixed correctly. I love high tech stuff (as I'm a computer tech/ network administrator myself) but I'm not so convinced it is the best thing for equipment.

Fieldman12
10-29-2007, 05:51 PM
I know in the AG word if you really have an issue with a piece of machinery they will send the tech out to your jobsite for a bit to see if it breaks and try to fix it there (make sure the rental is also at the jobsite). I would think at this point I would tell them I'm not hauling it in. Either you come fix it or else I'm going to stop all future payments and seek legal action. It is good to be nice to your dealer as it can help but member the squeaky wheel gets the grease. That is the whole idea of buying a new machine so it dont break.

accurate machinery
10-29-2007, 06:08 PM
Fieldman, I agree with everything you advise about dealing with the dealer, however, if you hold up your payments you only harm your own credit rating. Don't hold payments, even if it is with IR credit, you will get that bad mark on your credit and no one will ever ask about how come the payments were late.
Do ask for the Customer support from Bobcat, a Bobcat Tech representative should get involved and advise the dealer as to the problem and as to providing a loaner for the duration.

Fieldman12
10-29-2007, 07:55 PM
I was reading somewhere there was a way to hold the payment. Something about placing the money in a special account somewhere that proves you have it. You would not be required to pay the money until satisfied. It is a legal matter. I would seek info first before I done it from a lawyer.

BlackWhiteandOrange
10-31-2007, 09:56 AM
SiteSolutions,
I bet your machine gets fixed this time. The problem is most likely a rub through in the harness to the tracks. There was nothing wrong with the joysticks or controllers that got replaced and the harness that was replaced wasn't the correct one.

SiteSolutions
10-31-2007, 12:44 PM
The service manager has been thinking harness all along. It may be, because it seems to be affected by motion and angle of the machine; at one point, to get the error to clear, I had to push the nose of the machine up with the bucket... only it didn;t drive too well like that, so when I went to let the machien back down, the error came back, machine stopped moving, and so forth.

I think the harness and / or sensor they need to fix are hard to access and they may have the whole thing in pieces before I get it back.

tallrick
10-31-2007, 06:21 PM
Perhaps I am reading this wrongly, but in that Bobcat are the controls electrically coupled instead of a hydraulic pilot design? Basically a "drive by wire" system then? It has always been my opinion that a mechanical linkage is superior to anything electronic.

Scag48
10-31-2007, 07:06 PM
I'd get that machine fixed, run it for a while, and if it craps out again get rid of it before your warranty is up. Reminds me of my car, I currently own the last Audi I'll ever own without a warranty. Without a doubt one of the best cars ever to own/drive, but if you're working on it all the time, who cares? My philosophy is the same with equipment, either it has a warranty that covers breakdowns or you buy a used machine and after a few money spending adventures, probably time to think about switching to something else. To me, equipment running is more important than my car running, because the car doesn't produce any revenue. I really lose my patience with breakdowns with equipment that has a warranty, the warranty might as well be the soft feeling under your pillow at night you should never have to use.

Fieldman12
10-31-2007, 09:43 PM
That is what I would do if I had trouble with it again. I know you will loose some money on it but you got to also ask yourself how much money will you loose if you keep it and it continues to be broke. That is really ashame because I have a high respect for Bobcat and considered buying one in the past. Hopefully they have it fixed this time and it is a great machine for you here on out. I know if I was in your shoes I would want to keep it especially since you have allot of money in it.

accurate machinery
11-01-2007, 08:20 AM
Now might be a good time to at least inquire about a trade in on a new machine from Bobcat. I am always called in to look at a late model trade that a dealer was almost forced to take back. (Many times the description given to me is that it just got a new wiring harness!) Usually because of a disgruntled customer that was threatening legal action or was ready to throw in the towel and buy the competition. Bobcat corporate is usually willing to cooperate with extra discount to the dealer to help fund the transaction so it is less of a financial burden for everyone. I have heard many horror stories about Bobcat dealers having to buy back the B series backhoes, (at least that is what they said, who knows if they ever really sold them, they probably broke down during rental). Now that Bobcat is in the hands of the South Koreans it will be interesting to see how cooperative they are.

SiteSolutions
11-01-2007, 11:55 PM
Stopped by today and they have it almost finished. The little speed sensors in the drive motors have a pair of poorly protected wires running to them; I put my eyes on the right side and it was mashed, the insulation was gone from the wires and it was likely shorting across the steel plate designed to protect it. The tech ground off a little bit of the material from the plate and up-armored the new harness with 1/2" heater hose, then put a little silicone around it just for good measure. Looks like a thorough job of fixing it. He should have the left side done by mid-morning tomorrow. Can't wait to get it back.

They've been talking to the factory all week about it. The tech said he took all sorts of pictures and emailed them back to Bobcat; said my machine may appear in the next service manual. I told him I would autograph his copy.:laugh:

My last T-190 was a great machine, and this has been a great machine up to now. Hope once we get past this it will be smooth sailing.

Perhaps I am reading this wrongly, but in that Bobcat are the controls electrically coupled instead of a hydraulic pilot design? Basically a "drive by wire" system then? It has always been my opinion that a mechanical linkage is superior to anything electronic.

Yeah, Bobcat Selectable Joystick Controls ("SJC") are Electronic / Electric over Hydraulic. It's handy for some things, like you can set it to run a percentage of maximum speed, or it can automatically unload the drive motors if you drive into a pile too hard to keep you from stalling... although in practice I would say that the good old mechanical feedback on the rowing sticks makes it a lot easier to not stall. It's a lot less of a workout to run it, though. I even let my 15 year old stepdaughter help me bush hog with a brushmonster on it; she figured it out pretty quick.

If it does screw up again, I hope it waits till the spring...:rolleyes:

tallrick
11-02-2007, 04:10 PM
Yeah, Bobcat Selectable Joystick Controls ("SJC") are Electronic / Electric over Hydraulic. It's handy for some things, like you can set it to run a percentage of maximum speed, or it can automatically unload the drive motors if you drive into a pile too hard to keep you from stalling... although in practice I would say that the good old mechanical feedback on the rowing sticks makes it a lot easier to not stall. It's a lot less of a workout to run it, though. I even let my 15 year old stepdaughter help me bush hog with a brushmonster on it; she figured it out pretty quick.

If it does screw up again, I hope it waits till the spring...:rolleyes:

Thanks for the explanation! I had seen this system on the Bobcat website, but thought it was only on all-wheel steer loaders. Did your previous Bobcat track loader have the SJC controls or the classic mechanical controls? To me the thought of a foot throttle and electronic joystick control is extremely odd, but I am not running a loader for hours a day, several times a week. If a 15 year old girl can run it, it has to be straightforward and responsive. Hopefully one of these days I get to try one out, but that's highly unlikely. Since I seem to be getting more and more local operators needing maintenance and service on their older machines, its only a matter of time before I encounter this control system in person.

Glad you prefer old-style! I prefer hand levers and foot controlled hydraulics myself. One complaint I have about newer machines is all the hydraulic noise. My home Bobcat is the old 1977 style that doesn't have the high-pitched whine that drives you crazy after a few hours. Does the newer Bobcat loader you have feature reduced hydrostatic noise levels?

Supper Grassy
11-02-2007, 04:51 PM
did you get your machine back?

I think that once this happends so many time they had to get Bobcat involved to see if a fctory tech could help


Glad to hear that the mechanic is taking extra measutre to help fix the machine.

BrandonV
11-02-2007, 07:26 PM
we have an 864 bobcat and it has been throughout its life nothing but one sensor breakdown after another. I kinda blame it on bobcat's sloppy wiring routes. these sensor breakdowns were the main reason i bought a 287b when it came time to add to the fleet

bobcat_ron
11-04-2007, 06:13 PM
This is the thread that's been changing my mind now towards my next purchase next year.

cat2
11-04-2007, 08:16 PM
This is the thread that's been changing my mind now towards my next purchase next year.


Let me guess you what a John Deere:rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh:

bobcat_ron
11-04-2007, 08:18 PM
@^$% NO!!!!!

CAT better get their rear in gear!

cat2
11-04-2007, 08:39 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I new you would get a kick out of that:laugh: What do you think about Gehl

bobcat_ron
11-04-2007, 08:48 PM
Gehl is G*Y.

cat2
11-04-2007, 09:24 PM
What skid steer brands do you like:confused:

bobcat_ron
11-04-2007, 09:26 PM
Bobcat and CAT, only the brands that I can see the tracks from the seat.

cat2
11-04-2007, 09:33 PM
MY favorite skid steer is. BOBCAT i have both JD and bobcat Drove the Jd alot when it was new, then when I traded in the old 753 and got a s-160, I never went back to the JD. We use the Jd alot, but I don't drive it. I'll stick with the bobcat. That Jd sure has been good

bobcat_ron
11-04-2007, 10:16 PM
I'd like to take the new smaller radius path Deere's for a spin sometime.

cat2
11-04-2007, 10:27 PM
I'd like to take the new smaller radius path Deere's for a spin sometime.


What you driving a Deere, take video of that:laugh:

bobcat_ron
11-05-2007, 12:02 AM
Nothing wrong with wanting to take a new toy out, after that, then I can hate them even more!

cat2
11-05-2007, 01:13 PM
:laugh: ..............