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Kiril
10-08-2007, 10:22 AM
Curious how people approach programming the Smartline. I see two options.

1) Baseline programming with only hydrozone run times and desired start times, let the controller determine soak times and when to water. This would mean setting the controller to water every day, with the exception of days or times you need to skip.

2) Full blown schedule, and only let the controller determine if watering is needed on the scheduled day.

I see potential drawbacks for both methods.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-08-2007, 11:27 AM
Curious how people approach programming the Smartline. I see two options.

1) Baseline programming with only hydrozone run times and desired start times, let the controller determine soak times and when to water. This would mean setting the controller to water every day, with the exception of days or times you need to skip.

2) Full blown schedule, and only let the controller determine if watering is needed on the scheduled day.

I see potential drawbacks for both methods.

I use auto adjust. With a few personal quirks. Don't like to water more than twice a week. So don't allow more than two days. like lots of multi cycling so I put in a slope of 10% on clay soil. I also avoid the easy scheduling of choosing plant types and spray types. like to set my own precip rate and my own percentage off the plant default. I lie to the clock some to make a few quirk adjustments.

Kiril
10-08-2007, 11:34 AM
In your opinion, how well does it handle cycle and soak in auto mode?

EagleLandscape
10-08-2007, 11:43 AM
Definately use auto adjust. If you use Standard, you won't see nearly the water savings that auto adjust can produce.

also, one thing that weathermatic was doing this spring is that they were only watering once a week. (they just have turf and shrubs, no annuals) and by the time the Friday watering day came up, it had rained that morning or the day before.

I think we ended up running for a whole month without the irrigation system coming on. Just one idea on how to play with the rain delay function.

EagleLandscape
10-08-2007, 11:45 AM
In your opinion, how well does it handle cycle and soak in auto mode?

Well its based on soil type / slope percentage. If you can dial that in correctly, (everyone should be able to), my experience is that it completely eliminates runoff. And if it runs too long, just increase the slope percentage.

Kiril
10-08-2007, 12:19 PM
The rain sensor in my region is worthless other than preventing the system from running in the winter if someone forgets to shut it off. Essentially the weather station is a very expensive thermometer.

I can schedule the controller to prevent runoff, and most likely save more water than auto mode (I push my landscapes to the breaking point). I'm not really looking for water savings out of this controller for this site (high end rental property), but more to avoid having to maintain the controller over the growing season. Once it is dialed in, I only want to go out there to turn it off in the winter.

Has anyone tried a full blown manual schedule then put it in auto mode (eg. how does the controller handle multiple starts in auto adjust)?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-08-2007, 03:35 PM
Use the run soak feature and multiple start settings are unnecessary.

Mike Leary
10-08-2007, 03:50 PM
Use the run soak feature and multiple start settings are unnecessary.

On the SL I just installed, will need a delay for the cisterns to recharge,
will this affect any weather station control features?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-08-2007, 03:58 PM
On the SL I just installed, will need a delay for the cisterns to recharge,
will this affect any weather station control features?

To my knowledge no. Certain settings override the weather station and MV on/off and delays are one of them

Kiril
10-08-2007, 04:58 PM
Use the run soak feature and multiple start settings are unnecessary.

Doesn't the controller handle that (run/soak) in auto mode?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-08-2007, 08:00 PM
Doesn't the controller handle that (run/soak) in auto mode?

Yes I guess I'm confused as to what you are doing. :confused:

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-08-2007, 08:05 PM
Kiril I need to reread this whole thread. I think I have been misreading your questions. I kept thinking they were too simple minded to be coming from you but now I'm beginning to think I missed what you are asking.

Mike Leary
10-08-2007, 08:19 PM
Kiril I need to reread this whole thread. I think I have been misreading your questions. I kept thinking they were too simple minded to be coming from you but now I'm beginning to think I missed what you are asking.

Oh, does that mean I'M caught in this reread too?:dizzy:

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-08-2007, 08:29 PM
Oh, does that mean I'M caught in this reread too?:dizzy:

If it will help you out I'll go a brief summary on my next post.:) ;)

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-08-2007, 08:29 PM
::backs out of thread::

Mike Leary
10-08-2007, 08:33 PM
::backs out of thread::

:: not only backs out of thread...goes to Airstream, pops cork, rolls one
large::

EagleLandscape
10-09-2007, 12:07 AM
While I think you might be able to achieve some pretty impressive results by completely dialing in all the information in the manual settings, you will still see better results with plant material receiving only the water that was lost through ET by using the Auto Adjust setting.
I'm sure you know that the "expensive thermometer" takes a temperature reading every 8 seconds, stores it until 11:55pm and then loads it into the SL1600 which then takes into consideration all the zone by zone details to calculate the exact amount of water to apply for the next program run.
Now, you could achieve the exact same thing by sitting outside with a digital thermometer, and reading the weather every 8 seconds.
And then plugging that into an algorithm that has more lines of code than the first space shuttle did, (all within 8 seconds of course) to produce the same results.
***repeat above steps every 8 seconds***

But as for me, I like to trust the auto adjust mode which does a great job and all of my homes high end plant material has never looked better. (and I have a reduced water bill)

just my .02:)

ALso, if you want to push your landscapes to the breaking point. Adjust the MORE/LESS setting on the auto adjust side, and tune down the percentage. That way you can utilize the auto adjust, but manually reduce that percentage of h2o.

bigred1
10-09-2007, 12:20 AM
I use auto adjust. With a few personal quirks. Don't like to water more than twice a week. So don't allow more than two days. like lots of multi cycling so I put in a slope of 10% on clay soil. I also avoid the easy scheduling of choosing plant types and spray types. like to set my own precip rate and my own percentage off the plant default. I lie to the clock some to make a few quirk adjustments.
What do you do on a retro w/crap DU? Do you sell an audit to determine the precip rate when you retro w/SL or wing it with a quick walk through?

bigred1
10-09-2007, 12:31 AM
Are you selling New installs or retros? How many return trips are you making to tweek the system?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-09-2007, 07:58 AM
What do you do on a retro w/crap DU? Do you sell an audit to determine the precip rate when you retro w/SL or wing it with a quick walk through?

I always sell the clock as the last option on upgrading a system. A great clock doesn't help a lousy system. On my customers systems I use the easy auto adjust settings so I can teach them about proper irrigation and ET programming. All the oddball stuff I do at my house only.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-09-2007, 08:00 AM
Are you selling New installs or retros? How many return trips are you making to tweek the system?

I'm strictly service and retros. i tell the customers to call me if they need to discuss a tweeking. I try to limit my SL installs to customers that I have really good communication with.

londonrain
10-09-2007, 08:41 AM
On the SL I just installed, will need a delay for the cisterns to recharge,
will this affect any weather station control features?
I have my delay set at 20min between zones. It delays in both auto adjust and standard mode.

Kiril
10-09-2007, 11:53 AM
Kiril I need to reread this whole thread. I think I have been misreading your questions. I kept thinking they were too simple minded to be coming from you but now I'm beginning to think I missed what you are asking.

:laugh: I started the thread for several reasons.

1) Informative poll of what people do for everyone to digest
2) To determine how much programming is really necessary in auto mode
3) To avoid reading the manual carefully

BTW, the cycle/soak needs to be manually set in standard mode, but not in auto.

Essentially I'm trying to determine by how other people program the controller what is the absolute minimum amount of programming required, and if the controller can really be trusted to do what it is supposed (eg. runoff concerns and timing).

My normal controller schedule is quite complicated and takes a good chunk of time to collect all the variables and run it through the ET program. What I would like out of this controller is a quick a dirty schedule that can be easily repaired should someone mess with it.

Kiril
10-09-2007, 12:14 PM
While I think you might be able to achieve some pretty impressive results by completely dialing in all the information in the manual settings, you will still see better results with plant material receiving only the water that was lost through ET by using the Auto Adjust setting.

My standard controller schedules are ET based (using historical data), and hydrozones are dialed in by plant species (where information is available) not by plant type. I also use the Lincoln to fine tune the system with respect to target irrigation depths based on species root zones. This is why I believe I can come close, if not better in some cases, to matching water savings by the Smartline.

In my region, using historical data is much more accurate that you would think due to the fact we get no rain during the majority of the growing season and weather does not deviate greatly from the historical averages.

Kiril
10-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Now, you could achieve the exact same thing by sitting outside with a digital thermometer, and reading the weather every 8 seconds.
And then plugging that into an algorithm that has more lines of code than the first space shuttle did, (all within 8 seconds of course) to produce the same results.
***repeat above steps every 8 seconds***

Temperature does not change that quickly. Also, one factor that can have a significant affect on ET is wind, which is not considered by the Smartline.

FYI, the ET formula that uses only temperature and location (Hargreaves-Samani equation) as dynamic variables is quite simple.

The base line equation is:

ET0 = 0.0135(KT)(Ra)(TD)^1/2(TC+17.8)

Where:

Ra = extraterrestrial radiation (mm/day)
TD = Tmax-Tmin
KT = empirical coefficient
TC is the average daily temperature
Rs = (KT)(Ra)(TD)^0.5

If you compare that to the Penman-Monteith method you will see just how simplistic it is.

The attached pic is the ASCE standardized (watered down) version of the Penman-Monteith method.

Mike Leary
10-09-2007, 05:04 PM
::note to self..don't get Kril going on ET when we get together::

EagleLandscape
10-09-2007, 09:07 PM
::not to self:: agree with ML:)

You might be able to do some better savings with the model you have, but by how much more? .005%? While et controllers are still in the first years, the smartline provides a radical jump from standard controllers, not to mention its better in every aspect over its competitor. we'll just have to wait and see what happens over the next 20 years on them.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-09-2007, 09:50 PM
Kiril
The keep it simple program. turning the dial clockwise.
Set a default program. (In case squirrels chew your monitor cord to shreds)
Set a start time.
Pick the days to water.
Set omit time which gives water window. Leave all days on. Don't omit any.
Ignore seasonal adjust unless want to include as part of default program.
Put in area zip code
Put in sprinkler type for each zone. (Go to page 11, need to read that part)
Put in plant type for each zone. (Go to page 12 need to read that part)
Put in soil type for each zone. (Go to page 12-13 need to read that part)
Tinkering can be done in more and less. (Page 13)
Need to have a default program to get monitor to activate with timer.
You can still use the multiple programs. If something is with pr b with more days and not on pr a it will run the ET program at the frequency of the default setting. The only variation from default setting will be the run times which are determined on the auto adjust side. Anything set on pr d will run concurrently with pr a, b, c. Intended for micro with long run times.
HOPE THIS HELPS DYNASTY LOVER

Kiril
10-10-2007, 10:10 AM
I already did all that, but stopped when I started setting multiple starts and multiple programs. I won't really get a chance to test it again until the valves are rebuilt. Anyone for fitting 10-12 removable valves in a 17x30 box?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-10-2007, 10:41 AM
No need for multiple starts unless you are trying something I haven't thought of. It will auto run soak based on soil and slope. (I know you know that from previous posts which is why I'm wondering if you are up to something) Multiple programs are nescessary on occasion. I have one customer I set up with a pot watering zone around her pool. So i put that zone on B by itself running every day and gave it an annual/loam designation. Did give it two start times as well. One in the morning and one in the evening. seems to be working well because she says her pots have never looked this good.