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pete scalia
10-10-2007, 09:50 PM
Anyone using this lamp? Are the metrics good? how long does it last? Is it in line with the 36 watt halogen flood in terms of quality output and reliability? Thank you.

Mike M
10-10-2007, 10:13 PM
Many people had short life prob's with them, I was told by FOLD to stay away, plus some here will tell you about the problems, too. Not sure of cause in manufacturing, etc.

Just a heads up.

pete scalia
10-10-2007, 10:19 PM
Many people had short life prob's with them, I was told by FOLD to stay away, plus some here will tell you about the problems, too. Not sure of cause in manufacturing, etc.

Just a heads up.

I think you are confusing this 20 watt halogen PAR with the 18 watt 4414 incandescant that comes standard with some fixtures.

Mike M
10-10-2007, 10:44 PM
I'm most likely confused, even if I'm right.

NightScenes
10-10-2007, 11:47 PM
I tried the 20s and ever since I have sworn off ALL PAR lamps!!

Eden Lights
10-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Anyone using this lamp? Are the metrics good? how long does it last? Is it in line with the 36 watt halogen flood in terms of quality output and reliability? Thank you.

The version that Hadco is having produced has by far the best illumination patterns and is the leader also in lamp life. With that being said the answer to your question is no and no and if you ask the major distributors they will confirm the very same findings that we are seeing in the field with our service work. It has been so bad for us we are recommending MR replacement fixtures or staying with the GEPAR36 35WFL only.

pete scalia
10-11-2007, 12:40 AM
so you are saying the 20 watter has turned out to be a flop ? Thanks for the info.

JoeyD
10-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Crazy, I have not heard anything negative regarding the 20w GE Par36. I know plenty of people who have switched to these lamps but have never heard of them burning out prematurely. Now what I have heard that is negative was in regards to the 25w Par36. GE had a problem with those lamps years ago and it appears they may have the same problem again. A good ammount of contractors have contacted us regarding that lamp burning out and giving them trouble but I have heard nothing reagrding the Halogen 20w.

NightScenes
10-11-2007, 10:17 PM
Joey, you sell a lot of PAR well lights and your opinion might be a little eskew (nothing personal). I have had those pieces of @#$% burn out in my hand while hooking them up, and I don't mean only once!! Those PAR lamps have cost me a pile of money and I am doing the same as Eddie and replacing all PARs with MR fixtures.

pete scalia
10-11-2007, 10:37 PM
Joey, you sell a lot of PAR well lights and your opinion might be a little eskew (nothing personal). I have had those pieces of @#$% burn out in my hand while hooking them up, and I don't mean only once!! Those PAR lamps have cost me a pile of money and I am doing the same as Eddie and replacing all PARs with MR fixtures.

Again I think the 4414 incandescent which has had a long history and reputation for premature burnout is being confused with the 20 watt GE halogen. They have only been on the market for a few yrs and i'd like to use them but I'm confused after reading the mixed reviews here. Will someone who has used many of them in the field over a period of time chime in and set the record straight.

Eden Lights
10-11-2007, 10:53 PM
Again I think the 4414 incandescent which has had a long history and reputation for premature burnout is being confused with the 20 watt GE halogen. They have only been on the market for a few yrs and i'd like to use them but I'm confused after reading the mixed reviews here. Will someone who has used many of them in the field over a period of time chime in and set the record straight.

Please provide specs of the GE PAR 36 20W and where do you get them?? I thought Hadco had the exclusive GE model with the 18W model?????????

pete scalia
10-11-2007, 10:58 PM
Please provide specs of the GE PAR 36 20W and where do you get them?? I thought Hadco had the exclusive GE model with the 18W model?????????

I don't get them anywhere since I've never used one. I simply heard of their existence. All I want to know from someone who uses them is if they last and do they put out light equivalent to a MR 20 watter? Anyone? This is starting to remind me of the whose on first routine from Abbott and Costello.

Chris J
10-11-2007, 11:38 PM
Eden probably needs to check the PM's again. Seems you have a habit of over-looking these with your busy schedule. :dancing:

EOL
10-12-2007, 11:24 PM
Well I sure hope they are good to go because I'll be installing 15 of them on a darksky friendly community next week.

pete scalia
10-12-2007, 11:55 PM
Well I sure hope they are good to go because I'll be installing 15 of them on a darksky friendly community next week.

I'm confused by all the confusion surrounding this post. Still like to know if it's a keeper or a turkey.

Eden Lights
10-12-2007, 11:57 PM
I'm confused by all the confusion surrounding this post. Still like to know if it's a keeper or a turkey.

Turkey Turkey

pete scalia
10-13-2007, 12:00 AM
Turkey Turkey


Hmmn- Eden says no go. Joey says aces. Both highly credible sources. This is a tough one ladies and gentleman. A real pressure cooker.

Eden Lights
10-13-2007, 12:27 AM
I have about 500 Par36 fixtures on 5 main properties, they started as service jobs. All of them were way under volted, I could go on and on about the product failures and install problems, but no need. I installed some with the Hadco unit and some with the Prism Haloxgen unit all 20W PAR36's. Transformers were completely reworked per new voltages at hubs. 300 of them are less than one year old running dusk to 11pm every day and over 100 lamps have already been changed out under warranty. Remaining 200 lamps have been in about two years and while most all of them have been changed out they seemed to have performed a little better. These are excellent clients and money is not the issue, but they really got burned. One property is for sale and two of them have agreed to make the switch to MR16 fixtures when it's time to relamp again. It's been a really hard sale, since they also had some inferior MR16 fixtures here and there and they think that they are junk too.

pete scalia
10-13-2007, 12:33 AM
I have about 500 Par36 fixtures on 5 main properties, they started as service jobs. All of them were way under volted, I could go on and on about the product failures and install problems, but no need. I installed some with the Hadco unit and some with the Prism Haloxgen unit all 20W PAR36's. Transformers were completely reworked per new voltages at hubs. 300 of them are less than one year old running dusk to 11pm every day and over 100 lamps have already been changed out under warranty. Remaining 200 lamps have been in about two years and while most all of them have been changed out they seemed to have performed a little better. These are excellent clients and money is not the issue, but they really got burned. One property is for sale and two of them have agreed to make the switch to MR16 fixtures when it's time to relamp again. It's been a really hard sale, since they also had some inferior MR16 fixtures here and there and they think that they are junk too.

Eden I feel your pain. To be fair to the rank and file and to all parties involved. Out of those 500 pcs how many of them would you say were Prism and how many GE/Hadco?

Eden Lights
10-13-2007, 12:45 AM
A quick look at Qbooks show 2-1 Prism as the purchased leader and I will say I haven't bought any Hadco's in a while since I am just trying to crawl to the finish line at this point.

EOL
10-13-2007, 01:18 AM
I'm confused by all the confusion surrounding this post. Still like to know if it's a keeper or a turkey.

Well, I'm going to guess that the word about a darksky community hasnt made it to the developers in your area. When you do come across a customer being a homeowner or developer of a subdivision that wants lighting BUT, wants to stay within the darksky regulations, stand by. He or She is going to try to get you to downlight the entire job.

NightScenes
10-13-2007, 04:54 PM
Again I think the 4414 incandescent which has had a long history and reputation for premature burnout is being confused with the 20 watt GE halogen. They have only been on the market for a few yrs and i'd like to use them but I'm confused after reading the mixed reviews here. Will someone who has used many of them in the field over a period of time chime in and set the record straight.

This is the exact lamp that I am referring to (20 watt GE halogen). I may have gotten a couple of bad batches but I doubt it. I had a few different projects and had the same problem on each of them. I had to go back, redesign the systems for 35 watt PAR lamps, replace all of the lamps and have not had a problem since.

pete scalia
10-13-2007, 08:27 PM
This is the exact lamp that I am referring to (20 watt GE halogen). I may have gotten a couple of bad batches but I doubt it. I had a few different projects and had the same problem on each of them. I had to go back, redesign the systems for 35 watt PAR lamps, replace all of the lamps and have not had a problem since.

Not to belabor it any further. But.
The 20 watt GE, rare hard to find Hadco exclusive, 20 watt hadco/GE right? Not the GE 4414 incandescent that is easy to find and is old as the hills. Some refer to the 4414 as a 20 watter but actually it is 18, so I just want to be sure there is no confusion.
thanks for your patience and understanding in this matter.

NightScenes
10-14-2007, 09:36 AM
I will see if I still have any more of the old ones laying around. I actually saved a whole case of those burned out lamps. I will check to be absolutely certain, but I will say that I would probably lay a bunch of cash on the line that it is the 20 watt halogen GE PAR 36 lamp. I even thought that they quit making the damn things, that's why their so hard to find.

pete scalia
10-14-2007, 12:26 PM
I will see if I still have any more of the old ones laying around. I actually saved a whole case of those burned out lamps. I will check to be absolutely certain, but I will say that I would probably lay a bunch of cash on the line that it is the 20 watt halogen GE PAR 36 lamp. I even thought that they quit making the damn things, that's why their so hard to find.

OK thanks, let us know when you check.

JoeyD
10-14-2007, 11:41 PM
I will post specs on this lamp in the morning.

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 11:58 AM
Product Code: 29130
Case Qty: 12
Lamp #: Q7558
Bulb: Par36 WF
Volts: 12
Watts: 20
MBCP: 365
Base: Screw Terminal
MOL: 2.75
Life: 5000
Spread to 10% Horizontal: 55degrees
Spread to 10% Vertical: 45 Degrees

I spoke with a guy who sells over 100 of these lamps a month and he says he has never had anyone complain of poor lamp life. The guy who buys the most who I know would have told both he and I if there were a problem with these lamps.

FYI there are 4 different beam spreads available in this GE Par36 20W lamp, VNSP, NSP, WF, and VWF.

Eden Lights
10-15-2007, 03:44 PM
These pics are from Sat. Lamps have been installed from 3-9months and of course one didn't work right out of the case. All of these are the China made Prism brand. After checking some numbers over the weekend the Hadco version is doing much better in the field, but still about a one year lamp vs. a three year lamp for the GE MR16 Precise Constant Color. I am sorry guys but PARS are just a dated design and should be avoided at all costs to better clients perceptions of professional landscape lighting. THE GE/HADCO LAMP COST DOUBLE THE COST OF A CC PRECISE GE LAMP SO WHY???

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 03:49 PM
what is this ge/hadco lamp?

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 03:59 PM
There are things are Par lamp can do that an MR 16 cant. Sure MR 16's are the primary lamp to be used but Par's have there place as well in lighting design. Just stick with GE.

Eden Lights
10-15-2007, 04:17 PM
There are things are Par lamp can do that an MR 16 cant. Sure MR 16's are the primary lamp to be used but Par's have there place as well in lighting design. Just stick with GE.

Well I can only speak for the Architecture and Landscape of my region, but I don't know of single design task where the MR doesn't out perform the PAR. Can you give me an example? We have been healthily debated the lamps up to this point, but the inadequacies of the PAR fixtures are also a huge part of this equation that we haven't even really discussed.

Eden Lights
10-15-2007, 04:19 PM
what is this ge/hadco lamp?

The 18W Halogen version. Who is making the Unique version?

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 04:44 PM
GE Makes all of the Par lamps we use in our well light and Big Bang fixtures.

Now as far as an example of a par 36 outperforming a MR 16, I can only say in my 12 years of lighting I have replaced far more MR lamps then Par 36's. That is the honest to God truth. I have had great success primarily with the Par 36 35watt WFL GE lamp. Becuase of my long history with Unique I used to use well lights as the primarily lamp in my designs. As far as lamp life I have lamps still burning on projects I installed back in 2001 and 2002. Grant it my designs have gotten better over the years and with growth of our product line I have found new favorites so my use of well lights have dwindled. But yet again I have pure confidence in the Par lamps and love the way they look when highlighting larger structures and trees.

One other thing I will add. These lamps (the Par 36 GE Sealed Beam Quartz-Halogen lamps) are the only lamps I know of in 12 volts that were designed specificly for Landscape Lighting.

Eden Lights
10-15-2007, 05:07 PM
GE Makes all of the Par lamps we use in our well light and Big Bang fixtures.

Now as far as an example of a par 36 outperforming a MR 16, I can only say in my 12 years of lighting I have replaced far more MR lamps then Par 36's. That is the honest to God truth. I have had great success primarily with the Par 36 35watt WFL GE lamp. Becuase of my long history with Unique I used to use well lights as the primarily lamp in my designs. As far as lamp life I have lamps still burning on projects I installed back in 2001 and 2002. Grant it my designs have gotten better over the years and with growth of our product line I have found new favorites so my use of well lights have dwindled. But yet again I have pure confidence in the Par lamps and love the way they look when highlighting larger structures and trees.

One other thing I will add. These lamps (the Par 36 GE Sealed Beam Quartz-Halogen lamps) are the only lamps I know of in 12 volts that were designed specificly for Landscape Lighting.

Joey, Joey, Joey, I will agree with you about the GE Par 35W lamp, but none of the 20W halogen PAR's are performing as well when it comes to lamp life
in my experience and three of the large landscape lighting supply houses are telling me they are hearing the same thing.

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 05:19 PM
Yeah, I need to keep my ear out on this one. I only have one good point of reference when it comes to the 20 watter and he told me has heard no complaints. Again this is a guy who sells 100 a month and we are pretty tight with the guy who installs most of them.