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NightLightingFX
10-12-2007, 02:52 PM
I have an extra 600w Hadco DB transformer I would like to get rid-of / use. I also have a potential customer who's only usable socket is in plain sight. I would like to use my DB transformer that I already have on hand for this situation. I would install the DB transformer right below the socket and then install a plug to the DB transformer. Will I be doing something wrong? I don't want my work to look like some hack came around and modified a transformer to work in a situtation that it wasn't designed for. What do you guys think?
~Ned
www.nightlightingfx.com

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-12-2007, 06:37 PM
I would suggest that you can probably do it cleanly, neatly and safely.... HOWEVER. I would hire an electrician to do the wiring of the DB transformer just to be completely safe and within code.

As a rule, I don not mess with line voltage 'anything' here at INTEGRA. It is in the realm of the electricians and that is their domaine. Better safe then sorry.

As for DB transformers... they aren't much of a hit up here... No point burying a transformer only to have it frozen in the ground and covered with 4 feet of snow! Makes service a real drag.

Have a great day.

Pro-Scapes
10-12-2007, 07:14 PM
have the electrician look at it... Might be cheaper and easier for you to put in an outlet in a better location vs modifing the current situation. It can be done tho by a qualified electrician. Just keep in mind if you leave the outlet above ground and tap into power there whats going to happen when they plug a million christmas lights in there or something with a high draw ?

I wouldnt go using the DB just for the sake of removing it from your stock. Is there any viable solution to concealing a standard trans ? Perhaps put a planting in front of it ? Just be sure its worth it before you do it

pete scalia
10-12-2007, 08:07 PM
I have an extra 600w Hadco DB transformer I would like to get rid-of / use. I also have a potential customer who's only usable socket is in plain sight. I would like to use my DB transformer that I already have on hand for this situation. I would install the DB transformer right below the socket and then install a plug to the DB transformer. Will I be doing something wrong? I don't want my work to look like some hack came around and modified a transformer to work in a situtation that it wasn't designed for. What do you guys think?
~Ned
www.nightlightingfx.com

sounds like your inviting trouble. A DB was manufactured for just that DB. It wasn't meant to be powered by a cord but hardwired. I'm also sure it's a code violation. When it comes to electricity, when in doubt leave it out.

Pro-Scapes
10-12-2007, 10:43 PM
wow i really gotta agree with pete... I guess i missed it when you mentioned adding a cord... While it would probably be fine I just dont think its one of thoes real bright ideas.... If your going to use it then let the electrician put a kicker on the outlet and a conduit down with flex going into the trans and let him hardwire it. They are a real SOB and should be used only when absolutly needed.

pete scalia
10-12-2007, 10:45 PM
wow i really gotta agree with pete... I guess i missed it when you mentioned adding a cord... While it would probably be fine I just dont think its one of thoes real bright ideas.... If your going to use it then let the electrician put a kicker on the outlet and a conduit down with flex going into the trans and let him hardwire it. They are a real SOB and should be used only when absolutly needed.

Thank you kindly Bill, Ah Billy.

klkanders
10-13-2007, 12:02 AM
Can I agree with Pete and Billy?
Both of my suggestions will take an electrician.
1. If you use the DB maybe the electrician can go below grade drill thru house wall and hard wire it since an outlet is near anyway. The only DB I have done was the big daddy Unique 1120w multi tap. The electrician wired it into a Crestron home system.
2. Or just have the electrician add an outlet in a concealed area where you can use an above ground transformer.

Keep us informered what you do! Good luck!

NightLightingFX
10-13-2007, 03:58 PM
Thanks for the input. I won't use the DB Transformer. It doesn't sound like it is worth it to try to modify the DB transformer. I will just get the right Transformer for the situation.
~Ned
www.nightlighitngfx.com

YardPro
10-14-2007, 07:30 PM
there is no problem whatsoever with what you want to do.
simply use uf wire and wire it into the DB as normal, on the other end use a plug and make sure you have an in-use cover and a gfi outlet on the receptacle.

pete scalia
10-14-2007, 07:33 PM
there is no problem whatsoever with what you want to do.
simply use uf wire and wire it into the DB as normal, on the other end use a plug and make sure you have an in-use cover and a gfi outlet on the receptacle.

No do not follow this advice it is dangerous and not to NEC. It should be deleted for insurance purposes.
Along with other problems how are you to make the wire connection to the db water tight below grade?

YardPro
10-14-2007, 08:30 PM
there is no violation of the NEC in this recommendation.
you make the connection water tight with the same connector that an electrician uses to run the UF wire into the box in the first place. Electricians hook up UF to DB boxes all the time. there are fittings that seal into the box and seal around the wire. do you actually believe that when an electrician uses conduit that it stay watertight?

your response is a knee jerk reaction.

Talk to an electrician and see what your local codes dictate. this type of wiring is done all the time for receptacles out in peoples yards, for pond pumps, for well power, etc...

and what are all these "other problems" .. because the sealing of the box is not an issue. just use something similar to a neer watertight connector....

post should be deleted for insurance purposes...... this site has no liability for information posted by it's members.....another hypersensitive knee jerk overreaction.

pete scalia
10-14-2007, 09:20 PM
there is no violation of the NEC in this recommendation.
you make the connection water tight with the same connector that an electrician uses to run the UF wire into the box in the first place. Electricians hook up UF to DB boxes all the time. there are fittings that seal into the box and seal around the wire. do you actually believe that when an electrician uses conduit that it stay watertight?

your response is a knee jerk reaction.

Talk to an electrician and see what your local codes dictate. this type of wiring is done all the time for receptacles out in peoples yards, for pond pumps, for well power, etc...

and what are all these "other problems" .. because the sealing of the box is not an issue. just use something similar to a neer watertight connector....

post should be deleted for insurance purposes...... this site has no liability for information posted by it's members.....another hypersensitive knee jerk overreaction.

other problem is that uf (underground feeder romex?)is not intended for above ground use. show me a plug that's made to fit UF. You'd be better off using rubberized cable like what they use in submersible fixtures but that's a no no underground too. which ever way you slice this meal it's rancid and I'm sending it back to the kitchen and leaving for another restaurant. sorry don't follow that advice.

NightLightingFX
10-15-2007, 12:11 PM
I am curious have you guys used very many DB transformers? I am not really excited about them. The flying leads make me nervous. However, I have used 3 1200 watt Unique DB transformers and 2 600 watt hadco DB transformers in commercial projects. And they were all hard wired in by an electrician. I haven't had any big problems with them yet. In regards to this thread, it doesn't seem like it would be any different connecting a plug to the DB transformer - connect it just as you would if you were hard wiringing it. I am sure it would be fine but I don't want to tarnish my credibility by monkey rigging something togather, so I guess I won't use the DB Transformer for this project. I will ask my electrician what he thinks about it. Thanks for the input.
~Ned

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 02:17 PM
Ned- DO NOT ATTACH A PLUG TO A DB! I have installed many DB's and ALL of them will take on water. We pot our unit so it does not get damged on the coil side and on the wiring side we include wax to seal your connections. The box is gasketed and screwed down but WATER WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY! Just save yourself the potential hazard of triping a GFI and just hardwire the unit like it is designed. Although running a plug may not be a code violation it is definilty a potential hazard. The only time I will wire a cord to the DB is when I do not have power yet to hardwire too. So I run an extension cord so that I can wire and test.

YardPro
10-15-2007, 08:30 PM
sorry, but you guys don't work around much water if you don't know how to seal a box.....

we live at the coast, and we have tons of experience sealing wire entry points.
we have guys wiring 220 boxes on docks that flood on extreme tides or hurricanes without water infiltration issues.

it is no big deal here.

and pete,
you really don't know nearly as much as you think you do. so get off your high horse, and show some respect for others on the board that disagree with you. I have been in business for 18 years and we do more than $1.2M/year...
we have used many DB boxes that electricians have wired UF into without conduit and have NEVER had a problem...

and UF is absolutely able to be used above ground... where did you ever get the crazy idea that it could not be used in an aboveground application????

pete scalia
10-15-2007, 08:36 PM
sorry, but you guys don't work around much water if you don't know how to seal a box.....

we live at the coast, and we have tons of experience sealing wire entry points.
we have guys wiring 220 boxes on docks that flood on extreme tides or hurricanes without water infiltration issues.

it is no big deal here.

and pete,
you really don't know nearly as much as you think you do. so get off your high horse, and show some respect for others on the board that disagree with you. I have been in business for 18 years and we do more than $1.2M/year...
we have used many DB boxes that electricians have wired UF into without conduit and have NEVER had a problem...

and UF is absolutely able to be used above ground... where did you ever get the crazy idea that it could not be used in an aboveground application????

Yard you are giving unsafe advise. Even a major manufacturer who makes the product disagrees with you. Give it a rest. Your wrong. :hammerhead: :usflag: :) :waving: :laugh:

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 08:37 PM
I am sure there are some measures we could take to seal the boxes better. We have very good succes with our DB that we have been making and selling for over 10 years. As a matter of fact some would say it is the best DB transformer on the market.

Unfortunatly not every installer takes the time to seal properly so we take extra measures to protect the wiring from being damaged. However that still does not mean it is wise haveing a power cord that is not meant for direct burial running up out of the ground into an outlet. That was the topic wasnt it?

Why wouldnt you just run conduit and pull the 120 into the ground and hardwire it correctly?

Joey D.

pete scalia
10-15-2007, 08:42 PM
I am sure there are some measures we could take to seal the boxes better. We have very good succes with our DB that we have been making and selling for over 10 years. As a matter of fact some would say it is the best DB transformer on the market.

Unfortunatly not every installer takes the time to seal properly so we take extra measures to protect the wiring from being damaged. However that still does not mean it is wise haveing a power cord that is not meant for direct burial running up out of the ground into an outlet. That was the topic wasnt it?

Why wouldnt you just run conduit and pull the 120 into the ground and hardwire it correctly?

Joey D.

Thank you Joe. I rest my case your honor.

YardPro
10-15-2007, 08:52 PM
joey, i was answering the question about "could" you do it... of course you can, then mr know it all got all hyper and freaked out like and wanted to call the post police...

i was never suggesting you use anything that was not rated for burial. I was suggesting using UF wire. There are very good sealing connectors that electricians use here all the time with UF that are 100% water tight and pass building codes without issue. when guys wire docks, and below grade pool pump rooms

JoeyD
10-15-2007, 08:59 PM
I hear ya.........LOL......MR..........LOL....... I havent heard that in a long time. It looks like you and Pete should get along just fine!!

pete scalia
10-15-2007, 09:24 PM
joey, i was answering the question about "could" you do it... of course you can, then mr know it all got all hyper and freaked out like and wanted to call the post police...

i was never suggesting you use anything that was not rated for burial. I was suggesting using UF wire. There are very good sealing connectors that electricians use here all the time with UF that are 100% water tight and pass building codes without issue. when guys wire docks, and below grade pool pump rooms

could you touch a live 600volt wire? Sure you can. I wouldn't recommend it and anyone who does is irresponsible and culpable. No back peddling on this one your advice is dangerous and irresponsible and should be stricken from the archived records your honor.

YardPro
10-17-2007, 09:00 PM
??????
your two comparisons are not even in the same ballpark. There is nothing dangerous about the advise I gave, and if sealed correctly there is no issue, There are many submersible line voltage items... pumps, etc... there all have line voltage IN WATER and are all sealed and have no issues.

do you even know what a GFI plug is????

just because you obviously lack the knowledge or skills required for such a simple task, does not mean that others also lack the same traits.

Stricken from the archives?????

you are such a drama queen.......

Chris J
10-17-2007, 09:44 PM
Yard Pro,
Don't be offended. He's kind of like a pet around here.

NightScenes
10-17-2007, 10:08 PM
I have been working as an electrician for over 15 years and I have been reading this thread and would say that Yardpro is right. Once the transformer is sealed whether the wire is above ground or below, it's still sealed at the transformer. UF wire is aproved below and above ground and I can't find a code violation on this and if it's plugged into a GFCI, that's even better than being hard wired and depending on a circuit breaker. What's all the fuss about? Would I do this type of installation? No, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Here's what I would do, I would come into the bottom of the outlet box (if it is a flush outlet get an extension box and come in with 1/2" conduit) and wire it into the load side of the gfci. This would protect the system and be a clean installation.

pete scalia
10-17-2007, 11:59 PM
I have been working as an electrician for over 15 years and I have been reading this thread and would say that Yardpro is right. Once the transformer is sealed whether the wire is above ground or below, it's still sealed at the transformer. UF wire is aproved below and above ground and I can't find a code violation on this and if it's plugged into a GFCI, that's even better than being hard wired and depending on a circuit breaker. What's all the fuss about? Would I do this type of installation? No, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Here's what I would do, I would come into the bottom of the outlet box (if it is a flush outlet get an extension box and come in with 1/2" conduit) and wire it into the load side of the gfci. This would protect the system and be a clean installation.

Good luck getting an inspection on pluggable DB GFI or no. What a joke.

Chris J
10-18-2007, 12:06 AM
OH CRAP! Here's Pete!

Pro-Scapes
10-18-2007, 08:38 AM
violation or not i think I would push for what paul said. It would just be cleaner looking when all is done. Its built to be hardwired... hardwire it. By the time we discussed this thread it would of been done and up and running.

The hadcos we made the connections inside the units. Dont the uniques have a seperate chamber inside for splicing it in ?

JoeyD
10-18-2007, 09:20 AM
Yes Billy!

YardPro
10-18-2007, 07:24 PM
just a reminder....
the guy asked if he COULD do it...

i agree that he should just hardwire it, or use an above ground ... but if he needed to, HE CAN....

I mainly posted what i have to let everyone know that pete does not know what he's talking about, and he fly's off the handle and makes claims that are simply NOT TRUE....

as paul stated there is no code violation. there are many ways to seal the box without there being a danger, and plugging it into a GFI protected circuit is also not any code violation as pete claimed in his last post.....

There is no violation on a plug in DB transformer. Pete simply cannot handle the fact that he is wrong....

i would never suggest doing something dangerous, or unsafe, or anything that violates NEC.

so pete, quit acting like a 12 year old...