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View Full Version : I need too know the truth(I need the Bobcat boys here)


Boss Exc.
10-12-2007, 09:39 PM
I was at Cat today and I was talking to a sales man and he was showing me how Cat only has ONE belt on the whole motor and that's the alternator belt.He then proceeded to tell me that on the Bobcat's the serpentine belt will have to be replaced at some point in the life of the machine at a cost of $1000.00 dollars......WHAT!

Can someone tell me if that is true.....$1000.00 dollars for a belt?That has too include labor but still $1000.00.

turboawd
10-12-2007, 11:35 PM
the way bobcat has the motor lined up on the machine, they cant mount the pumps to the engine. hence the use of a belt. not really a bad design.
i'd say it's better than using chains or gears.
the belt usually lasts for a long time. not sure about price though.

Fieldman12
10-12-2007, 11:59 PM
Well, I know Deere's just have one belt from what I can remember about mine.

perkhound
10-13-2007, 12:16 AM
i have had several bobcats with well over 1000 hrs a have never had to replace the belt on any of them

Scag48
10-13-2007, 04:40 AM
I never thought running a serpentine system was that great of an idea aside from the fact that the motor and all it's counterparts are essentially one big piece. And yes, it is a PITA from what I've heard to replace those belts. I think $1,000 is a little high, but I'd say it would be around $500 or so. To be fair, the alternator belt on Cat's machines have to be replaced at some point as well, but I know for a fact it's much easier to do.

Stillwater
10-13-2007, 06:28 AM
speaking of cat I just learned 2 days ago the vast majority of their production, is bought by china and exported. very little stays in America.

xcopterdoc
10-13-2007, 09:12 AM
The belt is 60 some bucks from the dealer and takes about 30 minutes( if that) to replace. There are 3 belts on most bobcats, alt, cooling fan and hydro belt.

accurate machinery
10-13-2007, 10:17 AM
Bobcat has been using the belt to drive the pumps ever since they started transverse mounting the engine. I think the design started with the 753 in the late 80's. The fact is with the transverse mounted engine, service is a breeze! Have you looked at the location of the filters, alternator, starter, injectors, valve cover, battery and that is just with opening the back door! With removing 2 nuts you can pop the canopy up and have access to everything else. I am not saying that everything is easy to get to, I know I have had to stand on my head a few times to access some things but you won't find an easier engine to service, all because of the use of the replaceable belt to drive the pumps.
Other manufacturers use U-joints or some other form of flex coupling between the engine and the pumps. This is usually an area of repair eventually as well, might require removal of the pumps or the engine to access it. I wish more manufacturers would transverse mount their engines, I am not a Bobcat fan but that is one nice design. My opinion is I would rather run a Cat but I would rather service a Bobcat.

Boss Exc.
10-13-2007, 01:36 PM
Guys I really appreciate all the replys,Thank you very much.

cat2
10-13-2007, 09:57 PM
:laugh: Yea that is a bunch of crap $1,000 for a belt :dizzy: darn cat dealer

MOREDIRT
10-13-2007, 11:47 PM
I agree but belts slip uv joints don't in any given industry when only one manufacturer keeps designing and producing machines one way when everyone else goes the other way it comes down to cost to change the design. why would cat deere nh case and all the others use direct drive?

iron peddler
10-14-2007, 12:25 AM
ok serepetine belt pita( but it works) $1000.00 repair doubtful, cat exporting to china for labor and assmebly false.... the 1 belt on cat machines for b series is true...c series go look at one and ask your dealer to check for sure

iron peddler
10-14-2007, 12:27 AM
that 1 best runs more than one thing on the cat...

Scag48
10-14-2007, 04:47 AM
cat exporting to china for labor and assmebly false

Yeah, Cat still builds most of their stuff here. Tigerator can verify, just waiting for him to jump in.

Stillwater
10-14-2007, 12:32 PM
who said cat exports for labor and Assembly? I cant find that post.

In 2006 Cat exported 44% of their entire manufacturing overseas. their are only 63 Cat dealers in the United States and 220 dealers overseas. They just signed some massive manufacturing contracts with the government of china so this 44% will be going up remarkably.

Stillwater
10-14-2007, 12:37 PM
Yeah, Cat still builds most of their stuff here. Tigerator can verify, just waiting for him to jump in.

Who is Tigerator? Cat is a fortune 100 company their manufacturing and management details are public knowledge you don't have to look far for it. You do not need someone to verifiy it for you you can do it in 60 seconds yourself.

Tigerotor77W
10-14-2007, 02:04 PM
Who is Tigerator? Cat is a fortune 100 company their manufacturing and management details are public knowledge you don't have to look far for it. You do not need someone to verifiy it for you you can do it in 60 seconds yourself.

Well, me, but with one wrong letter.

And I think scag interpreted your original post the wrong way (I did, too, at first) -- Cat does indeed export a lot of its product, but I'm not sure if that's true for Bobcat as well. China might buy a lot of Bobcat product and do something with it, but I don't know the exact breakdown.

That being said, the way the post was interpreted (which I know is not what you meant), it is true that Cat still produces the bulk of its products in the western hemisphere. I'd say probably 80% of the machines manufactured are between the factories in the US and Europe.

And most relevant to this thread, the Cat backhoe loaders for the US market and all Cat skid-steers (worldwide) are made in the US.

(Where they go is another story.)

Stillwater
10-14-2007, 03:10 PM
Well, me, but with one wrong letter.

And I think scag interpreted your original post the wrong way (I did, too, at first) -- Cat does indeed export a lot of its product, but I'm not sure if that's true for Bobcat as well. China might buy a lot of Bobcat product and do something with it, but I don't know the exact breakdown.

That being said, the way the post was interpreted (which I know is not what you meant), it is true that Cat still produces the bulk of its products in the western hemisphere. I'd say probably 80% of the machines manufactured are between the factories in the US and Europe.

And most relevant to this thread, the Cat backhoe loaders for the US market and all Cat skid-steers (worldwide) are made in the US.

(Where they go is another story.)

Sorry about miss typeing you name

ksss
10-14-2007, 03:41 PM
Bobcat uses the belt because they have to. Given a choice I am sure they would not. They say that the belt allows them to run the engine at a lower rpm for better economy. This is an example of the BC marketing genius. They have to counter the arguement about the belt maintaince so they turn a negative into at least a draw. Everyone else goes direct because it a much better system plain and simple, BC has no choice.

Mike33
10-14-2007, 09:09 PM
I have had many bobcats and currently own 3 at this time. My 185 has 1900 hours and i have never replaced this belt on any of my machines.

JDSKIDSTEER
10-14-2007, 09:27 PM
I have had many bobcats and currently own 3 at this time. My 185 has 1900 hours and i have never replaced this belt on any of my machines.
I have heard little complaints about the belts. If it were such a problem with all the choices on the market they would not still be the one all of the competition is still going after for market share. Out of curiosity, how often do you have to adjust the drive belt?

Boss Exc.
10-14-2007, 11:49 PM
I have had many bobcats and currently own 3 at this time. My 185 has 1900 hours and i have never replaced this belt on any of my machines.

The 773-G that I ran had 2900 +/- hours on it and never had a part replaced on it.I ran that machine since it was new.

Tigerotor77W
10-15-2007, 09:24 AM
Sorry about miss typeing you name

Not a problem -- scag was the one who had typed it in wrong. :)

Scag48
10-15-2007, 06:23 PM
Not a problem -- scag was the one who had typed it in wrong. :)

Guilty as charged.

Fieldman12
10-15-2007, 08:46 PM
I have never owned a bobcat but dont see the belt being that big of a deal. Yes, there is better setups but in a way a belt could possible be cheaper in the long run at least as far as down time goes. Now as far as the price of the belt I seriously doubt the belt will cost $1,000.00. There is just way too many different belt sizes and types out there that im sure would fit. If it costed me a thousand bucks for a belt I would go to deere or Case IH and see if a belt for a combine would fit it. Like I said belts are really a dime a dozen. If a belt would make the machine cheaper to own and operate yet still give a very long life than I would not have an issue with it on a machine. Belts are simple to change. Some of them can be hard to get too but it does not take a rocket scientist to do it.

Mike33
10-15-2007, 10:27 PM
I have heard little complaints about the belts. If it were such a problem with all the choices on the market they would not still be the one all of the competition is still going after for market share. Out of curiosity, how often do you have to adjust the drive belt? never had to yet

Tigerotor77W
10-16-2007, 03:25 AM
Guilty as charged.

And no worries here, either. No one's to blame.

Back on topic...

JDSKIDSTEER
10-16-2007, 06:53 AM
never had to yet
I just wondered. I know a lot of salesman use that as a selling point against Bobcat. I was wondering if they realy had to be adjusted that often or not.

xcopterdoc
10-16-2007, 08:32 PM
The tension assy on all the more modern machines uses a clockspring and pointer to indicate belt tension. Once adjusted properly, with a new belt, it needs to be looked at after a few hours to make sure the correct tension remains on the new belt. If the pointer is at the correct clock angle then no further adjustment is needed. I typically see 3 to 4k hrs on hydro belts. We usually change them when we change an engine, since it has to come off anway. Rather than it being a true serpintine belt, like that is on your automobile, it is a bonded V belt, with I think 3 or 4 V's. Very reliable belt. Only tools needed for the change is a wrench or socket and pry bar.

Mike33
10-16-2007, 09:58 PM
Dont you you love salesman. No i ve been running bobcats since 94 every day except winter months and never replaced a belt.
mike

JDSKIDSTEER
10-17-2007, 10:35 AM
Dont you you love salesman. No i ve been running bobcats since 94 every day except winter months and never replaced a belt.
mikeWe aint all bad. But there are a lot of sorry ones out there.

iron peddler
10-17-2007, 05:42 PM
i have never sold against the belt being a weak part, to me it justdoes not seem the most efficent transfer of power? to me there must be a reason that only bobcat does it...it is not rocket science..it is a cheap manufacturing savings. but it works for their application, just like the sideways motor orientation....if works for them.

Boss Exc.
10-17-2007, 07:07 PM
i have never sold against the belt being a weak part, to me it justdoes not seem the most efficent transfer of power? to me there must be a reason that only bobcat does it...it is not rocket science..it is a cheap manufacturing savings. but it works for their application, just like the sideways motor orientation....if works for them.

I just picked up a brochure from Bobcat and this is what they say in the brochure:
"The belt drive Advantage"
"Bobcat loader hydraulics are powered by our exclusive belt drive system that allows the pump to turn faster than the engine."
In addition:1) one side serviceability of all routine maintenance points due to transversely-mounted engine.
2)A quieter engine with a longer service life.

3)Minimal maintenance with spring loaded idlers that maintain belt tension.

4)3-year belt warranty.

This was just food for thought.....

Digdeep
10-17-2007, 07:27 PM
The belt was never a problem when I sold Bobcats, but I still think that a hydraulic pump under a heavy load will perform better with the pump being turned by a direct link to the engine vs. a belt that does age and tends to slip as it gets older and the pump is under heavy load.

iron peddler
10-18-2007, 12:41 AM
i have sold against bobcat for about 8 years now and i have read their literature....companies pay marketing people big bucks to spin things into advantage...i am not bashing on them, it just seems odd to me that they are the only ones to do it.....it is fairly obvious that works well enough for them to have market share for along time...

ksss
10-18-2007, 11:30 PM
It is a manufacturing give and take. Obviously they feel that mounting the motor transversly gives them advantages that are out weighed over the belt, or they had no choice. However if your options are low maintance or no maintance with the direct coupler (also I would imagine the belt is a parasitic power loss) you would pick the later. I guess on the other hand it is similiar to BC's bowtie chain system that does not require adjusting. I have had one machine in 16 that have required chain adjustments, BC makes a big deal out of it. I don't see it.