Alright, I've had it. Who's with me?

[JLC]

Gentlemen,

I've had it up to my eyeballs with LCO's who don't pay taxes, don't have insurance, lowball and to top it off brag it up!!!! We should not sit around on our hands and feel like there is nothing we can do about it. Whether you do good work or not, these guys are a threat to our business. Even if we were to lose one customer and because of terrible work they come back to us, we've still lost the revenue during this time. This scenario doesn't take into account what happens if we never get the job back.

It is time this industry as a whole be proactive in retaining our jobs through the education of our customers. I propose that we come up with some educational/promotional material that can be mailed to existing customers and submitted along with every new quote.

Things that would be in it:

-Insurance and why professionals carry it, what can happen if a contractor doesn't...
-Taxes, including sales, and why we pay them...
-All applicable licenses...
-Your thoughts go here...

I'm open to suggestions, but this should be the starting point. We need to distinguish ourselves. Today every illegitimate LCO has got a shiny truck and good equipment. We need to differentiate ourselves by showing our professionalism in the business end.

I am stepping to the plate to do something about this instead of just complaining about it. My graphic designer is going to be getting a call when I have finalized what I want in the leaflet.

Let's see what we can come up with.

[Charles R. Laws]

I'm with you, we see it all of the time. The problem is, most of the residential customers could care less. All they are interested in is how inexpensive they can get their lawn done. Commercial accounts feel differently.:blob2:

[TJLC]

I am fully licensed and insured but have NEVER had a res. cust ask me if I was or not. Down here price seems to be the MAIN concern. Now my comm. properties are a different story. They require proof of both.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Sorry to hear that, but there is nothing you can do about it.

OR beat them at their own game.

LGF:blob1:

[JLC]

I don't mean to imply that this has happened to me yet. I think that it is a legitmate concern. I don't think it would hurt for customers to know why they made the right choice with a little reminder. It would also give new customers somewhat of a checklist to compare contractors with. The more info you present with a bid the better. This would perhaps level the playing field.

[lawnboy82]

I have had customers ask me before if I was insured. Very few require a certificate. Most that do ask say that if I want to I can send them one, but its not necessary. Or, if you have insurance that is good, if not, no big deal. -Some people say that.

[Lawn DOG]

Lawngodfather, Why even reply if you have nothing useful to add to a post?

JLC, It sounds like you have a good idea. Maybe you could add something in your info packet with a story of someone who got sued by the uninsured LCO. Of course, the story would need to be true. I think something like that would help people understand the importance of hiring lic. and insured LCO's.

[plow kid]

a 1/2" drill bit in a cordless drill will stop them from moving to the next lawn http://members.aol.com/ncls484/smilies/wink.gif http://members.aol.com/ncls484/smilies/hehehmm.gif




























J/K!

[bobbygedd]

most people here just want a decent price, and a decent job. ive had 2 people ask me if i was insured, both time their only concern was me getting hurt on thier property, and suing them. i explained that me having ins does not protect them from being sued. ive found mostly the only question im asked is how much.

[awm]

way this post started ,i thought wes all gon meet somewhere an
hunt that crazy man down. oh well put the gun up mamma an pass the grits.:)

[HBFOXJr]

Guess I got my final wake up call, when during the course of a sales tax audit a few years ago, the auditor told me he doesn't pay his lawn guy any sales tax.

Labor & services are taxable here in NJ.

[MOW ED]

Multi leveled very involved discussion as to WHY someone doesn't go about business the correct way.

Everyone is going to have an opinion and they are all good but what is really right? I'm not saying I am but heres my opinion.

We know how to be legit. The local, state and Federal taxes, employee withholding, business liability- spraying- vehicle insurance, licences to spray and spread, local business licences, I know I forgot 1 or 2 more. These are definate expenses and have to be figured into the cost of business.

It is the responsibility of the business owner to become educated on these business principles. But being this is America and we are free to pretty much do as we please (which by the way is a good thing) people can start a business without having all of the bases covered.
The very start of a lawn care business is not all to difficult, costly or technical. A retired guy or a 12 year old knows that he can buy a mower at Wal-Mart and start mowing lawn. Pay taxes? Are you nuts. The old guy will pay taxes on his 6 pack at the store but he sure aint takin the time for that on his hobby. Little Timmy doesn't know what taxes are and doesn't care to learn.

What happens is that they see that they can make more of that easy money by picking up a few more customers and do o.k. until that big day comes that they realize a few things.

Their equipment doesn't work like it did for 1 or 2 lawns and the Murray is down more than up. They have too many customers and now they need help to complete the work. Some of their customers are looking for other services that they can't provide.
They are working harder than they used too and now this isn't a hobby anymore - it is a business. They step to second or they sell their junk and start tying flies for a hobby.

Think of how you started, I was sort of a mix between the two. I knew a little about business and started with a garden tractor and a Craftsman walk behind in a homemade trailer. I made copies of a hire me letter and distributed them. I did pay taxes but I did have some cash jobs where I didn't. I did have insurance but I learned that at a young age.

Gents there is no "BOOK" of how to start a lawncare business th right way. We write our own book. Yes, I am as mad as the next legit operator when I see the old guy mowing grannys lawn for 10.00 but I know he isn't a threat to My market because I can't convince this customer that I am better for a higher price. I know I am but she has what she wants. A 10.00 cut and he is happy for ten bucks.

I will not ramble anymore because I can use much of Chucks bandwidth to talk about this topic. I appreciate the oppertunity to discuss it and my closing advice to you is;
do your best in your market and charge what you are worth. You can't mow every lawn in your community so work on getting the ones that will make you money.
Good Luck.

[bobbygedd]

along the lines of what ed said, i started in a similar fashion, and it proved to be counterproductive. trying to build clientel, and for the first couple of years not even knowing i was supposed to collect sales tax, my little push mower, and i didnt even know i needed insurance, or a permit to put down that "scotts fertilizer stuff". as time went on and i became "legit", i needed to charge much more for services, and also tax on top of it, most of my customers canceled, they were only price shoppers anyhow. so, what did i accomplish during those years? well, i got quite a workout, cant say i made any real money, and i didnt build any kind of business. so....the moral of the story is, be as legit as possible, its in your best interest. do i want to go around reporting people for being illegit? nope, im out numbered, and no body likes a tattletale anyhow, i have enough work to keep me busy.

[TGCummings]

I think it's a real shame that a lot of supposed professionals do not take care of the things that they need to but as LGF implied, there's very little we can do about it. My area is absolutely inundated with 'competition' that won't get insurance, pay their taxes, or understand their true costs, but I haven't the time to worry about them. I'm a firm believer in that you get what you deserve, so they all will in time.

The best thing you can do is make sure you handle all the things you need to, and focus your efforts on the customers that do care. Worrying about the n'er-do-wells and fly-by-nights won't help you get more customers, but there is a market for your services. Some people want true professionals they can count on and some do not. It's not only for lawn care, either. Some people want to hire unprofessional painters, roofers, remodelers, etc. just to save a buck. And like it or not, they are are plenty of 'businesses' out there to oblige. That's just the reality. Take that knowledge with you daily and realize that the people who hire those people are not the people for you. Let the careless hire the carefree, because we both know that you and I are better than that...

-TGC

[JLC]

I understand what a lot of you guys are saying. My business is legit in every business procedural way.

Let me ask this. Do you believe it would be detrimental to have some sort of contractors checklist in pamplet/leaflet form, attractively arranged by a graphic designer as descibed in the beginning of this thread? My thoughts are that when a prospective new account or current account realizes the difference between a reputable contractor and one who isn't they will be willing to perhaps pay more for a company that is legit. As I stated in a previous post, the visible lines between a reputable contractor and one that isn't are tough for someone seeking our services to distinguish. Consideration must be taken to how those seeking reputable contractors know they've found them. They have every bit the nice trucks and equipment. Where they lack is the business legitimacy. I am quite aware that there are many customers who don't care and I'm in agreement that those are not the type of customers I target. I'm just wondering how many think this would be a heads up allowing us to distiguish ourselves from the unpros on jobs we target.

[gusbuster]

jlc

What you're talking about is one of the oldest dilemma’s that is faced by many companies in different industries. How to compete against non-pros in your particular industries.

As you're well aware of, you can't do it on your own. Do you know of any other people, in the same business, feeling the way you do? Get together with them; sign a formal complaint with your local government (city council, county or parish council) in regards to unlicensed pros. It does help. We (13 different companies) did this last August (2000) with our local city council. When they realized how much money they were losing in license fees, been enforcing this issue at least once a month. Don’t know the total amount collected, but there has been talk of hiring a dedicated enforcement officer for this reason.
John

[AltaLawnCare]

I was just getting ready to post something very similar, but it will fit in here.

I'm thinking of putting an article in our local paper;

Something to the effect of , "Do you know who you're hiring?.."
I may run this next spring, along with my big ad. In it I could raise questions about paying taxes, having insurance, biz license, etc.
If joe blow is hiring "LCS" (Lawn Care Scrugg), and he's paying taxes outta his paycheck, and on his peoperty - he may not like LCS beating the system, or the fact they have no insurance!

Maybe the public needs to be educated.:eek:

[HBFOXJr]

Couple of pproblems here. This is like drug use, if there wasn't a demand there would be no dealers. If the consumer gave a rats butt this thread wouldn't be here.

Second, a person could be legit as snow white and still not know anything technical thats needed and still not know how to price anything or have any business sense.

Folks here in NJ thought our Landscape Irrigation Licensing law was gonna do a bunch of good. Well, it's been around for years now, we still have unlicensed contractors, still have people buying from unlicensed contractors, the cheap ones are still cheap and despite a pretty technically stiff licensing exam guys are still ripping off the public installling crappy systems. Sometimes they're installed at substandard prices and sometimes people actually pay good money for a lousy job.

Personally I've given up caring and just continue to wage the war honestly and let the chips fall where they may.

Focusing on it can become an obession that saps creative and productive energy.

[MATTHEW]

In my area, LCO's will turn in anyone doing business with a NON-COMM plate on the back. In one post one of us tried this and the authorities said they don't have the time or manpower to get involved. What a stinkin' shame! What about all the taxes owed. Local, state, federal, s.s., medicare, sales tax, ect. Maybe we should report these guys straight to the I.R.S.!!!

[Lawn DOG]

If I understand JLC correctly he does not imply that this will change the evildoers or even rid the world of hunger but would educate his target customers and help them make a proper decision when picking a LCO. I believe this to be a very productive measure. If there was an information packet like this together I guarantee the legit guys would use this to their advantage.

I would encourage anybody with a helpful idea to share it.

Good luck with this.

[casey]

The only way is to beat the scrubs at their own game. Lower your prices & overhead, increase your productivity, spend less time at each prop. My prices are only slightly higher than an illegitimate LCO's & slightly lower than most legits. We are constantly looking for ways to get the job done faster & keep the profit margin high. We are coming into recession & price shoppers will be everywhere. Be prepared.

[odin]

Guys if some of your villages and towns were like glenwood il that would stop a lot of low ballers.They require insurance and proof of it and have code enforcement out on the streets every day looking for non licensed contractors
The license is only 50$ but the low ballers doint want to get liabilty

[lawnboy11]

I have exactly what you are looking for.

It's a pamphlet put out by a local (Long Island) industry association called Nassau Suffolk Landscape Gardeners Assocation. The name has changed actually, but the phone number is <b>deleted</b>. The pamphlet is called "Hire the Professional" and I distribute it with every proposal package. If you call them I'm sure they'll send you one. I think you'll have to change it to suit your needs as it has the NSLGA logo on it and their #s. Definately call them though and get a copy.

<b># Deleted at poster's request.</b>

[Pauls Mowing]

I'm in.... I pay insurance and taxes, have a sales tax lic., and pay to have commercial plates on my truck. I run a legit business, all should play the same game.

Paul

[lawnboy11]

Please only JLC call. If everyone that sees this calls them they will be overrun and will not be able to accomodate everyone. I will try to scan one in and post it here for y'all to see.

BTW , I tried to edit, but too late. In fact maybe an adimin. could delete the # from my above post or email it to JLC. Thanks.

[HacMan91]

How do you know who's licensed and insured and pays taxes. I never stop around here and ask another company. Is this on your contracts or something. Around here we dont have to collect sales tax. My wife is a CPA so I claim all my income. Im not losing any accts so I dont care what the other guy is doing. Just my 2 cents.:D

[lawnboy11]

hope this works, check it out.
This is the front. The back I'll do later or tomorrow, I'm beat.

[ron]

I am lic and Insured but hey the lawn business here is very hard sooooooo many low ballers that it's funny I have never been asked to produce any type of lic ,people are just looking for the lowest cut for example an average yard here in florida port orange is $20.00 tops $25.00 per cut anything more forget it you will lose your a&& .....

[Allyn]

I would be very interested in this.

I had a customer in Salt Lake he was a property man. company.
He got burned big time by the State Workers Comp.

He has a company doing the work, and because they were not legal and have all the insurance. The State of Utah came after him and his company to pay for the workers comp. that the company didn't pay for. They proved that because the lawn company didn't have the insurance he needed to pay for it.

After that he wouldn't pay you bill unless you proved that you had the insurance and were legal.

He was out I think over several hundred thousand dollars. It was very expensive.

Allyn

[Vibe Ray]

Nice to see that you guys are still talking about this......

[JLC]

Lawnboy11, this is what I was thinking along the lines of!! I'm anxious to see what is on the other side.

Lawndog, you have the idea of what I'm saying. I'm anxious to get some free time to start to compose this leaflet on how to hire a professional contractor.

[Allyn]

If we contact our state contractors board. They might have a leaflet that we could change to fit our industry.
I know that here they have a real problem with people who are not licensed. They come and do have the work and leave with all the money. The news and state are constantly tell the people to make sure that they hire someone licensed and insured.
There are still people who don't.

What is going to be difficult is changing the minds. Having someone who is legal to do concrete work and one who does lawns is different. At least in the minds of the people.

What will be difficult is going around and making sure that they neighbor boy who does 4 or 5 lawns is legal. He uses dad's mower to cut the lawn. I don't think we can or should do any thing to these kids. But I do think that the guy who puts the equipment in the back of the car or truck. Who is out only on Saturday and Sunday should be legal.

I don't know where to divide the line.

Allyn

[JLC]

I know the line has to be drawn somewhere, but even if a little kid is mowing the neighbors lawn, the liability remains. There needs to first be education with enforcement coming soon after. I'm mainly concerned about those posing as a reputable company on the outside and doing business illegally on the inside. I think that most of us would agree as was stated that the weekender and boy next store don't pose a significant threat. However if you are posing as a legitimate contract, you should be legitimate in all aspects. These people are a threat.

[HBFOXJr]

There are federal rules about employing kids of certain ages. Anyone 16 or less can't be around certain equipment and I believe a mower is a real no-no.

If an underaged kid gets hurt doing something he is not of age to do I think there is triple damages awarded.

Something to think about.

[Guido]

Originally posted by lawnboy11
hope this works, check it out.
This is the front. The back I'll do later or tomorrow, I'm beat.

I like that pamphlet. Don't forget to scan the other side for us!!

Thanks!

[lawnboy11]

Here's pg 2

[JLC]

I like it! I think this is an excellent example of what all landscape contractors should have in their marketing arsenal.