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irrigatingguy
10-16-2007, 02:20 PM
More questioons from a newbie. I have many 20W and 35W MR 16 lights. Can you give me general guidance as to where to use which bulb, and again, in general, which beam patterns work best on which applications. Thanks.

JoeyD
10-16-2007, 02:32 PM
Kind of an open ended question. I like to stick with 36degrees on both the 20 and 35 w/ MR 16's. I am sure others will ahve there opinons but how we do it at Unique is we provide you with either a BAB or FMW but then we provide you with designer lenses for spreading, softening, or narrowing the beam. This allows you to not go crazy come maintenance time. Trying to remember which beam spread was where can be a nightmare unless you do a really good job of documenting your initial installation. Most dont so the idea of using lenses seems to work well.

Now which lamp goes where is really hard to generally say. I mean you can say that larger plants and architecture will merrit the 35 and smaller stuff will utilize the 20w. But Some will argue that 35 is too much for a L/S period. I tend to disagree, I love using 35w lamps in my designs. So I think for a better answer to your question here you should offer up so some examples as to what you are lighting up. Give us an example as to what kind of plants you have, architecture, color, and so on and so forth. Dimensions help as well. Then we can better assit you in selecting the right lamp and then the rigth light.

Feel free to call me for more information. I could have my rep come out and give you some onsite assitance to better help educate you here.

David Gretzmier
10-16-2007, 05:08 PM
the 35 watter has it's place on taller items for me. If I am uplighting a 2-3 story home, 20 watts typically gets lost before it reaches the top. also on very tall trees like certain pines and oaks, I like the 35 watt.

Chris J
10-16-2007, 05:14 PM
I would tell you to get some fixtures and lamps and play around with them to see the different effects for yourself. The question you are asking is very subjective, and you will get 10 different answers from 10 different people. You will ultimatly have your own opinion of what looks best, so therefore it will be up to you to "see for yourself". Until you have this knowledge, you could simply over-build your lighting systems to accept 35-50 lamps. If something is too bright, just change out the bulb. Just remember to re-check the voltage and adjust accordingly.

Pro-Scapes
10-16-2007, 09:14 PM
a look at a good photometric chart will help you determine what will work and where but keep in mind. These can be found in many manufactures websites and catalogs

Ambeint light.... is there a ton of street lights flooding your area where your going to need a 35 in place of a 20 just to see the thing ?

Type of object being lit... I have lit 1 story brick homes which needed a 35w to reach the gables well... Same style house in white took a 20w to achive the effect. Similar deep dense gree trees will seemingly eat light on you and may even require multimple 35 w or more depending on thier size and the ambient light.

Keep in mind when lighting trees especially fast growers... try to leave enough avalible wattage to upgrade to a higher wattage lamp at a later time.

Nothing will teach you faster than getting some lights and playing at yours or a friends home.

Also keep in mind often times multiple low wattage lamps will produce better results than a single higher wattage lamp Providing the light emitted will reach the desired destination. Joeys point on lenses is great but do not limit yourself to just 36 degree bulbs. I recall one project I was FLOORED at the spread of a 75w 12 degree shooting up 4 stories.

irrigatingguy
10-16-2007, 11:58 PM
thanks guys for all your help. I would be lighting tall italian cypresses, 8-10 ft lugustrums, many sabal palms, single story stucco walls, and juniper taupieries. What about holly trees - do those look good lit?

Pro-Scapes
10-17-2007, 08:58 AM
thanks guys for all your help. I would be lighting tall italian cypresses, 8-10 ft lugustrums, many sabal palms, single story stucco walls, and juniper taupieries. What about holly trees - do those look good lit?

its hit or miss on holly trees... it really depends on the individual tree and if there is something better to light around it.

With ligustrums my experience is usually 2-3 fixtures if they are nice and full... if they are old mature large ones they can use 6 or more lights. Sometimes hard to get a client to shell out 12-1500 to light one tree tho.

Your single story stucco walls will probably take 20w for the most part if they are light in color..... Palms depends on the size but do not think you can just plop one light in front of every tree and get the results you see on this site.

Call AJ at florida outdoor lighting and tell him I sent you... he will get you set up with good prices on a real quality product line and he stocks more than you could hope for in your area. He also has seminars all the time.

You really got some stiff competition in your area with oscar welch and bob kelly right there along with bela luce designs

irrigatingguy
10-18-2007, 12:47 AM
you are right Billy....one customer at a time. Thanks for your help.

Chris J
10-18-2007, 12:58 AM
You really got some stiff competition in your area with oscar welch and bob kelly right there along with bela luce designs

Not to mention Steve Riggs of Illuinations USA, but who the hell is Bob Kelly? Is he that retired guy that charges outrageous prices and gets one every now and then? Man, I wish I had a steady income from some other source and could consider this business "extra income". Billy, you really need to stop listening to Chuck and AJ so much. They are filling your head with too much crap!

Pro-Scapes
10-18-2007, 09:14 AM
Not to mention Steve Riggs of Illuinations USA, but who the hell is Bob Kelly? Is he that retired guy that charges outrageous prices and gets one every now and then? Man, I wish I had a steady income from some other source and could consider this business "extra income". Billy, you really need to stop listening to Chuck and AJ so much. They are filling your head with too much crap!

The retired guy is Oscar I beilive. I have never met Bob Kelly who is Elagant custom images. Oscar is an outstanding business man and has provided me with a great deal of useful information about marketing. Over lunch with him last year I got more useful info in an hour that I had in 2 seminars.


I didnt get the feeling he considers his business extra income. I think he really enjoys taking his work seriously

NightScenes
10-18-2007, 12:11 PM
Oscar is a full time lighting guy who is a former studio exec from L.A. I believe. He also sits on the board of the AOLP.

irrigatingguy
10-18-2007, 03:46 PM
Where have you guys used the MR16 20 W or 35 W 12 degree bulb? Would a narrow palm tree or a narrow column fit the bill? Or should I just stick mostly to the 24 and 36 degree MR16 bulbs when accenting? Is there a perceivable difference between 24 and 36 degree. Basic questions - I know

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-18-2007, 03:57 PM
Where have you guys used the MR16 20 W or 35 W 12 degree bulb? Would a narrow palm tree or a narrow column fit the bill? Or should I just stick mostly to the 24 and 36 degree MR16 bulbs when accenting? Is there a perceivable difference between 24 and 36 degree. Basic questions - I know

Hey Guy...

I have use 8 deg and 12 deg (narrow Spots) when highlighting statues, art, sculpture and logos. Admittedly, I use more of these on interior lighting then outdoor lighting.

For the most part I would think you would make use of 20-25deg. (narrow floods) and 36-40deg (wide floods) in the outdoor environment. There most certainaly is a real and perceivable difference between a 24 and 36 deg. MR16 lamp, no matter what intensity (wattage) you pick.

When I was learning lamp selection techniques, I set up a test area inside my shop where I mounted a number of different lamps to a board shining horizontally to another white board about 8 to 10 feet away. This was a great physical / tactile tool to assist in learning and understanding photometric tables.

After you learn the real qualities of all the different lamps, then you can start to play and learn about lenses and filters.

Have a great day.

NightScenes
10-18-2007, 04:17 PM
I agree with James and would also say that I do use the narrower beams on things like columns and very tall palm trees. The things that you must consider are: do you want to cover alot of the cieling/soffit area when lighting columns and for the palm trees? How large is the canopy and how bright do you want it to be?

I also recommend frosted filters if illuminating light colored columns.

Pro-Scapes
10-18-2007, 04:20 PM
Hey Guy...

I have use 8 deg and 12 deg (narrow Spots) when highlighting statues, art, sculpture and logos. Admittedly, I use more of these on interior lighting then outdoor lighting.

For the most part I would think you would make use of 20-25deg. (narrow floods) and 36-40deg (wide floods) in the outdoor environment. There most certainaly is a real and perceivable difference between a 24 and 36 deg. MR16 lamp, no matter what intensity (wattage) you pick.

When I was learning lamp selection techniques, I set up a test area inside my shop where I mounted a number of different lamps to a board shining horizontally to another white board about 8 to 10 feet away. This was a great physical / tactile tool to assist in learning and understanding photometric tables.

After you learn the real qualities of all the different lamps, then you can start to play and learn about lenses and filters.

Have a great day.


This is exactly why I said get some and play at home. I have used 12 degree on narrow collums before... if you need a softer light or need to cover more of the sofit area a 24 or 36 is better. We have seen 12 degree narrows cover a very large area from 40-50 ft away. You MUST take into acct the distance from the source to the destination when selecting your bulbs to create your desired effect.