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View Full Version : Favorite Ingrade for Concrete, Stone, Tile, & etc.


Eden Lights
10-18-2007, 01:59 AM
Any favorites? We have been roughing in 2.5" inside Dia. conduit for the last couple of years and then setting fixtures later after stone, tile, stamping, and etc. Large flange is very forgiving and nothing can get damaged. Any ideas other than the BK we are using??

http://www.bklighting.com/cimages/brochure-373.pdf

sprinkler guy
10-18-2007, 02:12 AM
Eden,

I just put my hands on the new FX Luminaire well-lights. Check out the lights half way down the page under subterranean, specifically the FC and the RP.

http://www.fxl.com/products/default.htm

I don't know if you use any FX or who the distributor is in your area, but call FX direct and they will have someone come to you and show off the new toys.

Eden Lights
10-18-2007, 02:28 AM
Eden,

I just put my hands on the new FX Luminaire well-lights. Check out the lights half way down the page under subterranean, specifically the FC and the RP.

http://www.fxl.com/products/default.htm

I don't know if you use any FX or who the distributor is in your area, but call FX direct and they will have someone come to you and show off the new toys.

I like the slicks on the RP, but I have not seen one so I am not sure about how it would rough in or go in concrete.

Pro-Scapes
10-18-2007, 09:43 AM
Have you looked at the unique nova ? Also the kim mini valuts but they require much more space.

Copper moon also has a tank built one but has a glare shroud on it. The unique comes with both the shroud and flat ring in the box along with all the lenses and a louver. Heck even comes with a pvc sleeve to hand the hardscapers altho its real loose fitting (joey!!!!)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-18-2007, 10:39 AM
Well I have to pipe in here...

Nightscaping has some of the nicest looking ingrade fixtures I have ever used. They are cast brass, built like tanks, available in clear glass, frost glass, grate, eyebrow or diffuser configurations. They are impervious to water ingress when installed properly and I have never had a failure with them.

Check out the Nightscaping Vermeer Line: BM4552 Pictured here.

JoeyD
10-18-2007, 10:39 AM
Nova-B25-20-WB
The nova is a small MR16 inground light that comes with 2 shrouds, angle cut for hiding glare and flat for recessing flush. Also can be ordered as a NOVA STAR. The NOVA STAR utilizes the Star Grate, a brass louvered grate similar to the Apollo Star you see below, just smaller. The Nova comes with a frosted bubble lens for low lying 360degree lighting as well as flat clear, frosted, linear, and dimpled spread lens. It also comes with a hex louver for hiding glare, a PVC sleeve for forming and recessing, as well as 25ft of 16/2 brown cable. It utilizes an MR16 20w BAB lamp.(Below are photos of the Nova with angle cut shroud recessed into tile. I will try and get some phtoos up of the Nova Star in action.)

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots003.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots001.jpg
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/NOVA.htm


ApolloStar-B25-35-WB
The Apollo Star is a PAR36 Well Light that utilizes a brass liuvered grate we call the Star Grate. The photos you see below show the Apollo Star witht he brass Infinity Ring. It gives the light a smooth transition into the surface and in landscape applications helps knock down growth. The Star Grate is available in a 4" version to fit the Nova. The Apollo Star comes with a GE Par36 WFL 35w, grate, Par36 Lens Clip, and a set of designer lenses including frosted, liner, and dimpled spread lenses.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots006.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots007.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/StarGrateInfinityRing.jpg
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/APOLLOSTAR.htm

Eden Lights
10-18-2007, 10:45 AM
Rough in specs for the NS and the Unique? What is the core drill diameter for the NS and the Nova? I will be installing sleeves on this as soon as it stops raining, so I can't wait on the fixture. Thanks for all the help.

JoeyD
10-18-2007, 10:52 AM
Rough in specs for the NS and the Unique? What is the core drill diameter for the NS and the Nova? I will be installing sleeves on this as soon as it stops raining, so I can't wait on the fixture. Thanks for all the help.

Install Unique Lighting's Nova or NovaStar (Brass MR16 Well Light NovaStar has Brass Lovered Grate), to do this you will need to core in a 2 1/2" hole using a Diamond Bit Wet Core Drill, or a 2 1/2" Carbide Bit Dry Core Drill.
2. Install Unique Lighting's Apollo or ApolloStar (Composite Par 36 Well Light ApolloStar has louvered Brass Grate) to do this you will need to drill a 6" hole (using the same type of equipment just a larger 6" bit)
The Drill I use for my wet drilling is a Shibuya TS-162 2spd core drill, Shibuya is a Japanese company and I like this drill allot! It can be purchased from Kimberley Diamond Tool, Inc. in Escondido, CA, you can contact them at 800-457-3677. The Carbide Dry Drill I use is a Hilti TE-76, and that can be purchased anywhere Hilti is sold

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-18-2007, 10:54 AM
Rough in specs for the NS and the Unique? What is the core drill diameter for the NS and the Nova? I will be installing sleeves on this as soon as it stops raining, so I can't wait on the fixture. Thanks for all the help.

Just go to the nightscaping web site and download the spec sheet on the Vermeer. Oh heck, here I have attached it for you.

They also offer a 'pour sleeve' but it is not listed in the catalog.

The last time I core drilled these into Granite Flagstones I used a Bosch SDS Max Drill and a 5" Core Bit. I took about 20 mins to bore through the 6" stone

Eden Lights
10-18-2007, 11:02 AM
Thanks guys, I can sleeve the concrete with my 2.5" inside diameter pipe and install the Nova or the Goldstar it looks like. I need to look at the NS, it looks like it might not sit flush in a sleeve with out a NS rough in kit.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-18-2007, 11:07 AM
Eden... The Unique Nova and the NS Vermeer are essentially the same profile just different dimensions.... Both have a "lip" or flange that you will have to deal with. Notice in Joey's photos how those Nova's are not installed flush to the concrete?

I get around this by either coring two different dia. holes or customizing a pour sleeve out of two sizes of ABS pipe. That way the fixtures go in nice a flush.

Have a great day.

JoeyD
10-18-2007, 11:22 AM
you can recess them flush, you just have to route out a 1/2 x 1/4 lip around your hole.

NightLightingFX
10-18-2007, 12:58 PM
Eddie,
You have been doing this a lot longer than I have, but FYI. This is what I have done for concrete pours. The fixture I like to use is from Garden Light – B1020. It is all brass and you can have a grated or none grated cover. The reason why I like this fixture so much is that the lamp is set pretty deep in the fixture (helps prevent glare) and you can angle the lamp to 25 degrees. The first pics are of a job I did last year (finished). The other pics are of a job I have been working on all year (one of the custom homes that is taking all year to finish). What I do is I use pvc pipe for a sleeve. I make a top out of plywood – I cut 2 disc, a smaller one that fits inside the sleeve and a larger one that is secured to the smaller one. The larger disc is basically a mold for my lip of my fixture to sit in. Once the concrete hardens I pull off the plywood cover and set my fixture right in the mold. That way my fixture’s top lip isn’t exposed and the grate is flush with finished concrete floor. In this case I made an extra long sleeve covered the bottom with duct tape and filled half of the sleeve with gravel - weight down the sleeve so it wouldn’t float when the concrete is poured.
~Ned

NightScenes
10-18-2007, 01:50 PM
I like the sand in the bottom idea Ned.

klkanders
10-18-2007, 01:58 PM
Very Nice Ned!

JoeyD
10-18-2007, 02:13 PM
Nice Ned, although I prefer the term 200 mph tape over Duct Tape!!!! LOL

Mike & Lucia
10-18-2007, 08:39 PM
Thanks guys, I can sleeve the concrete with my 2.5" inside diameter pipe and install the Nova or the Goldstar it looks like. I need to look at the NS, it looks like it might not sit flush in a sleeve with out a NS rough in kit.

Timing is everything. I'm working on a design and visited the site, yet again, today to walk and talk with the contractor. I want to light a large pergola with flush in-grounds. Dry laid brick has been lifted and will be re-installed as wet-laid. Now is the time to install my piping and sleeves. I use alot of BK Delta Star - an awesome structure-mounted downlight. From the pics, it looks like the FXLighting unit has a nice glare shield option. Does the BK have a similar shield?

This might be the right place and client to try some color changing LEDs. Its a private place and this guy wants the newest and hottest toys. Anybody have any experience?

Mike

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-18-2007, 08:49 PM
Hi Mike. If you want to try colour changing LEDs that don't require a DMX control system I would recommend you look to Colorstars. They make a line of MR16 LED Modules that you can control with a simple remote control unit (much like a TV remote).

Check them out at: www.colorstars.com

irrig8r
10-18-2007, 09:46 PM
Really nice illustrative photos Ned. Nice system.

Eden Lights
10-18-2007, 10:17 PM
Great work Ned, very nice.

Mike & Lucia
10-19-2007, 09:30 AM
Hi Mike. If you want to try colour changing LEDs that don't require a DMX control system I would recommend you look to Colorstars. They make a line of MR16 LED Modules that you can control with a simple remote control unit (much like a TV remote).

Check them out at: www.colorstars.com

James,
They look like they might just do the trick! What is your experience with them? Any pointers? Beam spread? Cost? How to buy? Will they live in the sealed below-grade fixtures we are discussing in this thread? Thanks.
Mike

Mike & Lucia
10-19-2007, 11:43 PM
I called twice, and emailed today. No response.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-20-2007, 01:32 AM
James,
They look like they might just do the trick! What is your experience with them? Any pointers? Beam spread? Cost? How to buy? Will they live in the sealed below-grade fixtures we are discussing in this thread? Thanks.
Mike

I have not used the RGB LED from Colorstars yet. I have tested a few of their Warm White 5w MR16 LED modules and they seem quite decent.

I am not sure that the US office actually does anything.... Contact the Asian office via their website and you should have a reply in 24 hours or so.

In a below grade application I would want to ensure that your fixture is absolutely moisture proof. IP68 at least.

Let us know how it goes...

sprinkler guy
10-21-2007, 01:51 AM
I like the slicks on the RP, but I have not seen one so I am not sure about how it would rough in or go in concrete.

Eden,

I put in a couple of the FX RPs yesterday. They are an all composite body, and include a composite sleeve that you can set for the pour. It's pretty rigid too, so I wouldn't worry about concrete collapsing the sleeve. Worth checking out.

Jesse L
10-21-2007, 01:58 AM
How would you guys go about installing these fixtures if the concrete or pavers were already installed? Is there a trick to this, or is the standard practice of pulling them up all you are left with? By the way, do you know of a special tool that will pull paver bricks up?
Thanks,
Jesse

klkanders
10-21-2007, 02:31 AM
Jesse, 2 old slotted screwdrivers. It seems to work as good as anything else. Lift one side and hold it then pry other side back and forth. Once you get that first one out then its not so bad.

Jesse L
10-21-2007, 02:41 AM
Jesse, 2 old slotted screwdrivers. It seems to work as good as anything else. Lift one side and hold it then pry other side back and forth. Once you get that first one out then its not so bad.

Are you kiddin? My method is actually the best thing going?

klkanders
10-21-2007, 02:47 AM
Which is? Come on you gotta share now? :)

Jesse L
10-21-2007, 02:52 AM
Which is? Come on you gotta share now? :)

He just said it! 2 slotted screw drivers, prying them out one at a time. I would think there has to be a better way.

Chris J
11-28-2007, 11:16 PM
Eddie,
You have been doing this a lot longer than I have, but FYI. This is what I have done for concrete pours. The fixture I like to use is from Garden Light – B1020. It is all brass and you can have a grated or none grated cover. The reason why I like this fixture so much is that the lamp is set pretty deep in the fixture (helps prevent glare) and you can angle the lamp to 25 degrees. The first pics are of a job I did last year (finished). The other pics are of a job I have been working on all year (one of the custom homes that is taking all year to finish). What I do is I use pvc pipe for a sleeve. I make a top out of plywood – I cut 2 disc, a smaller one that fits inside the sleeve and a larger one that is secured to the smaller one. The larger disc is basically a mold for my lip of my fixture to sit in. Once the concrete hardens I pull off the plywood cover and set my fixture right in the mold. That way my fixture’s top lip isn’t exposed and the grate is flush with finished concrete floor. In this case I made an extra long sleeve covered the bottom with duct tape and filled half of the sleeve with gravel - weight down the sleeve so it wouldn’t float when the concrete is poured.
~Ned

Hey Ned,
I just visited this post again, and I'd like to know how you determine the height that you mount these? Does the concrete guy give you some kind of referece point, or are you left to figure it out on your own? I'm sure that with this type of pre-wiring/sleeve method, you have to be within a pretty tight margin of error? what happens if the final grade is different than what you expected?
Thanks,
CJ

ChampionLS
11-29-2007, 02:24 AM
Timing is everything. I'm working on a design and visited the site, yet again, today to walk and talk with the contractor. I want to light a large pergola with flush in-grounds. Dry laid brick has been lifted and will be re-installed as wet-laid. Now is the time to install my piping and sleeves. I use alot of BK Delta Star - an awesome structure-mounted downlight. From the pics, it looks like the FXLighting unit has a nice glare shield option. Does the BK have a similar shield?

This might be the right place and client to try some color changing LEDs. Its a private place and this guy wants the newest and hottest toys. Anybody have any experience?

Mike


You might want to try the icolor from Color Kinetics.. or the color changing unit from balboa (bi pin). This unit...one for MR16 and one for MR11 is VERY BRIGHT!!! you can not look directly at it. This would easily wall wash in seven built-in programs. (you cycle the power on/off quickly and it changes colors.)

NightLightingFX
11-29-2007, 12:07 PM
Chris,
All I do is just line the top of my "fixture mold" (what ever you want to call it?) up with the top of their forms.
~Ned

Chris J
11-29-2007, 01:29 PM
Ah! So it is necessary for them to have already formed the area. Do you know what you would do if you had to install the sleeves before the forms were in place? I have run into this on a couple of occasions, and it always seems like a real pain in the rump to deal with. I'll normally just lay my conduit, and let them pour/paver right over the top of it. I come back later with a core drill and drill straight down through all of it, conduit and all.

NightLightingFX
11-29-2007, 02:49 PM
They must do things different in Florida. I don't understand how a concret guy can pour concrete with out the forms. How do they control and mold the sides of the concrete? Since light fixtures are usually close to the sides where the concrete ends. It shouldn't be hard to find a reference point as to what the hight will be. I would take a long 2x4 position it at your reference point. Put a level on top of the 2x4, span the 2x4 to the place you want to put your fixture, then bring the top of the fixture up to the 2x4.
~Ned

NightLightingFX
11-29-2007, 03:04 PM
Chris,
PS. It is STRESSFULL when ever I am working with concrete. Ussually I only have a one to two day window period between the forms being placed and the pour. I make sure I have all my molds (what-ever-you-want-to-call-them) made. I find out when they are going to pour. Once the forms are in, I drop what ever other project are going on and focus on the the concrete job. I put my forms conduit etc. in and I MAKE SURE I AM THERE FOR THE POUR. I am VERY protective of my mold and I watch the concrete guys like a hawk. It is stressfull cause if you aren't there the concrete guys don't care what happens to my molds. They want to get in and get out quick. Even though it is tough working around the concrete guys schedule it still seems a lot easier than core drilling like what you do.
~Ned

Chris J
11-29-2007, 10:37 PM
This is what I mean. I'm usually there long before the forms are laid out, and it's just too much of a pain to try to coordinate with the concrete guys. Therefore, this is why I've done it the way I described. It's really not that difficult, but it does require that I rent a core drill which is not cheep at all. I'd rather spend the extra dollars on the rental, however, than spend several labor hours chasing and waiting for other trades to do what they are supposed to do. Around here, if a contractor tells someone he will be there on Monday you can expect that he won't be there until Thursday at the earliest!
Thanks for the info!

pete scalia
11-29-2007, 11:51 PM
This is what I mean. I'm usually there long before the forms are laid out, and it's just too much of a pain to try to coordinate with the concrete guys. Therefore, this is why I've done it the way I described. It's really not that difficult, but it does require that I rent a core drill which is not cheep at all. I'd rather spend the extra dollars on the rental, however, than spend several labor hours chasing and waiting for other trades to do what they are supposed to do. Around here, if a contractor tells someone he will be there on Monday you can expect that he won't be there until Thursday at the earliest!
Thanks for the info!

I can relate with the bold print.:waving:

Pro-Scapes
11-30-2007, 01:13 AM
I been waiting for almost a year for a drive to get poured!!!! Sure im worried they will pour without my molds but not much I can do but check on the job when im in the area.

JoeyD
11-30-2007, 06:44 PM
The Lighting Geek and Paul Gosselin are now Concrete Coreing Profesionals!!

Chris J
11-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Sorry I missed you guys the past couple of days Joey. I really wanted to be there, but some of us have jobs to get done! I'll make sure to catch you the next time around.

JoeyD
11-30-2007, 09:41 PM
We missed you too buddy. We all talked about how we wish you were there playing liars poker and cruising around having cocktails with us on the Unique Motor Bus. But we will definitly get you out here on the next one.

pete scalia
12-01-2007, 02:02 AM
We missed you too buddy. We all talked about how we wish you were there playing liars poker and cruising around having cocktails with us on the Unique Motor Bus. But we will definitly get you out here on the next one.

sounds like fun. No towel snapping incidents later on in the locker room I trust.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-01-2007, 10:06 AM
This seems like a pretty good thread in which to ask the following:

1: What fixtures do you recommend for an in-grade application that will have vehicles driving over the fixtures?

2: What brand of Granola do you prefer? :)

In regards to #1 above; I have found the BK products but they are super expensive and act more as an edge delineation fixture. Also, because they protrude above the driveway surface, they are not appropriate for use in applications where a snow-plow is used. I have also found Intense Lighting's stainless steel in-ground well light, although it is not specifically marketed as a 'drive over' fixture, apparently it has been tested to 4000 pounds and survived.

I would like to find other such fixtures.

In regards to #2 above: I have always been partial to Quaker Harvest Crunch myself, specifically the Apples & Cinnamon variety.

Have a great day.

Lite4
12-01-2007, 11:55 AM
I have not done a lot of research on drive over fixtures or used a lot of them yet, but I do like to watch cars and trucks drive over and crush the pathlights and bullets style lights of my competitors while I am eating a Nature Valley 'oats and honey' granola bar and giggling softly. Not sure if that counts for anything.

JoeyD
12-01-2007, 01:05 PM
Our Nova Star will take light drive over traffic, not going to handle a big truck or anything.

HK makes a really nice drive over light that I have used before. I cant remember the part # but it had louvers as well and was made of brass construction.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-02-2007, 09:31 AM
The thing about in-ground fixtures that are positioned in a 'drive over' application is that you don't have the opportunity to choose what type of vehicle drives over them!

I was pretty satisfied with the Intense Lighting product claim of 4000 pounds... Given most 5 ton delivery trucks have their weight spread over 6 tires etc. But I would really like to find some similar fixtures that are not stainless steel constuction.

Have a great day

eskerlite
12-02-2007, 10:28 AM
I just installed 20 NS Vermeer liters on a brick patio. We put the conduit in concrete and put the bricks on the concrete. The fixture has a 5" diameter and needs a 4.5" sleeve. $325.00 retail. The other fixtures on walls are NS Postliters w/ #921 wedge base 17 watt.
Sean C.
www.dbcurraninc.com

Lite4
12-02-2007, 02:22 PM
Looks nice sean, those remind me of the Unique Novas.

ChampionLS
12-03-2007, 12:51 AM
I know of a flush fitted in grade light that you can drive over, snow plow over and is protected by the brick or paver that you install it in. I eat my Wheaties! :rolleyes:

JoeyD
12-03-2007, 11:46 AM
I know of a flush fitted in grade light that you can drive over, snow plow over and is protected by the brick or paver that you install it in. I eat my Wheaties! :rolleyes:

Shameless Anthony!! LOL

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-03-2007, 11:58 AM
I know of a flush fitted in grade light that you can drive over, snow plow over and is protected by the brick or paver that you install it in. I eat my Wheaties! :rolleyes:

Yes Anthony, but can it melt the snow that falls on it? Can it use MR16 halogen lamps up to 35w? Will it project light in a wide variety of intensities, and beam spreads up a 32' tall stone wall? Etc, Etc, Etc.

There is a big difference between inground well lights and paver lights...

Have a great day.

Lite4
12-03-2007, 06:11 PM
Anthony, Your paver light doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to modify to accept varying mr-16s. I don't know if it is rated for that much heat, but it might be something to look into to expand your market a bit.

Pro-Scapes
12-03-2007, 07:58 PM
I still have anthonys light behind my fax someplace. I have accepted some people like the effect. I dont offer them however. It definatly would not take the heat of an MR 16 lamp. It wasnt intended for that when it was designed or the plastic it was made out of was molded.

ChampionLS
12-03-2007, 11:50 PM
Hey guys!

Yes, they will melt snow. I'll post some pictures for you. (Most likely it will get deleted lol)

Now just FYI- The paver driveway ends right along the lights. After this, there is a lawn. The added benefit of paver lights is that they can effectively delineate and provide protection during snow removal. This is our driveway and I plow it several times a season. There is 9" of snow they are melting through. These photos were taken at 5AM.

We are working on a metal version that will use a MR16 or a MR11. Things take time, especially when you do things right. (All UL listed) Producing a fixture from metal takes a lot of sourcing and research before we have a good model in hand. I will let everyone know on our progress Via Email.

Thanks,

Anthony

JoeyD
12-04-2007, 10:16 AM
Anthony, you mean you just dont go to China and buy one someone already developed? What kind of manufacturer are you!?

pete scalia
12-04-2007, 10:26 AM
Anthony, you mean you just dont go to China and buy one someone already developed? What kind of manufacturer are you!?

The gloves have come off.

JoeyD
12-04-2007, 05:41 PM
The gloves have come off.


Pete, I was being sarcastic. I support Anthony's product.

ChampionLS
12-05-2007, 07:00 PM
Everything is made here in the USA. Every single component.

Eden Lights
01-02-2008, 03:32 PM
Nova-B25-20-WB
The nova is a small MR16 inground light that comes with 2 shrouds, angle cut for hiding glare and flat for recessing flush. Also can be ordered as a NOVA STAR. The NOVA STAR utilizes the Star Grate, a brass louvered grate similar to the Apollo Star you see below, just smaller. The Nova comes with a frosted bubble lens for low lying 360degree lighting as well as flat clear, frosted, linear, and dimpled spread lens. It also comes with a hex louver for hiding glare, a PVC sleeve for forming and recessing, as well as 25ft of 16/2 brown cable. It utilizes an MR16 20w BAB lamp.(Below are photos of the Nova with angle cut shroud recessed into tile. I will try and get some phtoos up of the Nova Star in action.)

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots003.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots001.jpg
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/NOVA.htm


ApolloStar-B25-35-WB
The Apollo Star is a PAR36 Well Light that utilizes a brass liuvered grate we call the Star Grate. The photos you see below show the Apollo Star witht he brass Infinity Ring. It gives the light a smooth transition into the surface and in landscape applications helps knock down growth. The Star Grate is available in a 4" version to fit the Nova. The Apollo Star comes with a GE Par36 WFL 35w, grate, Par36 Lens Clip, and a set of designer lenses including frosted, liner, and dimpled spread lenses.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots006.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots007.jpg
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/StarGrateInfinityRing.jpg
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/APOLLOSTAR.htm

Joey, I roughed in a job for the BK goldstar (2.5" sleeves) and I was going to try the nova, Can you hook me up with a disty?

JoeyD
01-02-2008, 03:47 PM
Joey, I roughed in a job for the BK goldstar (2.5" sleeves) and I was going to try the nova, Can you hook me up with a disty?


I sent you a PM

niteliters
01-02-2008, 04:19 PM
I just installed 20 NS Vermeer liters on a brick patio. We put the conduit in concrete and put the bricks on the concrete. The fixture has a 5" diameter and needs a 4.5" sleeve. $325.00 retail. The other fixtures on walls are NS Postliters w/ #921 wedge base 17 watt.
Sean C.
www.dbcurraninc.com

nice looking work Sean. When did you do this one?

ChampionLS
01-03-2008, 12:58 AM
Looks good! We are working on a cast model of the PL60LSA base for the future. Engineering takes time.

Eden Lights
01-10-2008, 12:24 PM
Joey, We are going to try out the Novastars, since they will fit in some rough ins we already have in place. Here is what we have been using, the BK goldstar. I will post pics of the Nova when we get them installed.

JoeyD
01-10-2008, 01:28 PM
Joey, We are going to try out the Novastars, since they will fit in some rough ins we already have in place. Here is what we have been using, the BK goldstar. I will post pics of the Nova when we get them installed.


Hey alright Eddie. Let us know how it works out. I look forward to seeing some pics. That BK fixture looks like it uses an MR11 or something small? Is it MR16 or smaller?

rememebr you can always have our lights powder coated directly from the factory!!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-10-2008, 04:40 PM
Joey, We are going to try out the Novastars, since they will fit in some rough ins we already have in place. Here is what we have been using, the BK goldstar. I will post pics of the Nova when we get them installed.

When you guys are installing ingrade fixtures into concrete or other hard surfaces why do you not recess the fixture so that it is flush to the grade? I would think that the fixture sitting up like this is a trip hazzard as well as being somewhat unsightly in the daylight hours.

It takes a bit more work and fussing about with the core drill or the forms, but is a much cleaner installation.

Have a great day.

klkanders
01-10-2008, 07:41 PM
I agree with that style of top it needs to be recessed. I do not have much experience with this type of installation but seems there are ones out there that have a much thinner and beveled edge that do lay flat but still on top of the slab. Both should be caulked.

JoeyD
01-10-2008, 11:17 PM
Flushing in is easy to do you just use a bit that is usually an inch larger than the body and core down far enough to flush in the lip of the light. We have done this many of times with the Nova.

irrig8r
01-11-2008, 12:27 AM
Flushing in is easy to do you just use a bit that is usually an inch larger than the body and core down far enough to flush in the lip of the light. We have done this many of times with the Nova.

I guess then if you recess the Nova you are using a different top piece? In other words, not the shroud like in the photo here, but maybe a slotted grate or grille?

Or are you recessing it below grade more?


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots003.jpg

Eden Lights
01-11-2008, 01:56 AM
When you guys are installing ingrade fixtures into concrete or other hard surfaces why do you not recess the fixture so that it is flush to the grade? I would think that the fixture sitting up like this is a trip hazzard as well as being somewhat unsightly in the daylight hours.

It takes a bit more work and fussing about with the core drill or the forms, but is a much cleaner installation.

Have a great day.

This is a retro-fit job and the client was shown various options and pros and cons were explained. Clients choice in the end. I always make the client aware of possible concrete flaws, damage to sundeck material, and etc.

We have been using this fixture in new construction also because of several jobs before that were various stone couldn't be cut perfect, veneer material would change, rough-in would get damaged and cause problems, etc. We always stub in 2.5" pipe now and leave it alone, After eveybody is done, we just cut the pipe flush and slide the fixture in. The BK goldstar only has a 1/4" lip in the MR16 package. We also get the taper lip in some applications. In a perfect world flush would be nice, but my days are over of baby sitting rough ins on pour day after the exact pour time has moved a half dozen times is over.

Eden Lights
01-11-2008, 01:57 AM
I agree with that style of top it needs to be recessed. I do not have much experience with this type of installation but seems there are ones out there that have a much thinner and beveled edge that do lay flat but still on top of the slab. Both should be caulked.

If you caulk it how are going to change the lamp?

ChampionLS
01-11-2008, 03:02 AM
For recessing you need a "pancake bit"

Core drilling is easy. Especially when you have a template to help start the process. The adjustable rails on the template can be removed so it can be placed flat on a large surface and keep the bit from "walking". :cool2:

(the template shown here was a prototype. The actual production version has less parts)

irrig8r
01-11-2008, 03:51 AM
That's an interesting setup... is that hose and valve for water cooling?

OK, now that was weird, www.targetblue.com redirected me to http://us.husqvarnacp.com/ ..... and the drill is now called a DM 225.

http://us.husqvarnacp.com/node1552.aspx?nid=12522&pid=9769


My daughter's boyfriend is in sales for Hilti so I think I might look into these instead.

http://www.hilti.com/holcom/modules/prcat/prca_navigation.jsp?OID=-22609

ChampionLS
01-11-2008, 04:04 AM
Target was bought out by Husqvarna last year. All their equipment is Orange Now. Everything is the same, except the colors. This model core drill is a two speed hand held unit, with smart start. (you press a button under the hand grip and it starts out real slow to help you get the bit to cut. When you press it again, the drill comes up to full speed- but nice and slowly) It has both 1-1/4-7 and 5/8-11 threads. It also has a built in bubble level on top and on the back side to assist in drilling accurately. The unit comes with a hard carry case, adapters and two spanner wrenches. Capacity up to 6" Theres nothing on the market that even comes close to the price of this unit with all these features. It retails about $1,200.00 USD.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-11-2008, 09:58 AM
If you are core drilling fixtures into stone / concrete on a daily basis I can see the value in purchasing a tool & rig like this. For the occasional job I would head to my local United Rentals and rent their Bosch Kit for about $75 per day. The unit I have used is a much larger and does the job very well. No investments into different size core bits, no worries about breakdowns, and the larger units allow you to stand up and move through the material very quickly.

Regards.

JoeyD
01-11-2008, 10:41 AM
I guess then if you recess the Nova you are using a different top piece? In other words, not the shroud like in the photo here, but maybe a slotted grate or grille?

Or are you recessing it below grade more?


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/ApplicationShots003.jpg

When using the angle cut shroud there is no point to recess the lip. The Nova comes with both an Angle cut shroud and a flat shroud, both are in the box!!!

klkanders
01-11-2008, 11:23 AM
If you caulk it how are going to change the lamp?

Very true. Maybe its not needed. Depending on unit used and if it is installed flush or set in a bit would determine if caulk can or should be used. The guys that install alot of these...are you caulking them? In a freeze, thaw area would enough water get in and, without proper drainage, sit there and cause any problems? I am just a rookie so I dont know if this is a concern or not?
When i have caulked things in the past and then needed to remove i used a utility knife and cut the seal pulled the caulk off and pryed loose.

Anthony, Since you are coring and setting your fixture on a compacted base are you caulking anything?
Thanks everyone for your info on this interesting topic!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-11-2008, 01:10 PM
Very true. Maybe its not needed. Depending on unit used and if it is installed flush or set in a bit would determine if caulk can or should be used. The guys that install alot of these...are you caulking them? In a freeze, thaw area would enough water get in and, without proper drainage, sit there and cause any problems? I am just a rookie so I dont know if this is a concern or not?
When i have caulked things in the past and then needed to remove i used a utility knife and cut the seal pulled the caulk off and pryed loose.

Anthony, Since you are coring and setting your fixture on a compacted base are you caulking anything?
Thanks everyone for your info on this interesting topic!

Most of the cored, in-grade uplights I have installed have been installed into Granite Flag Stone.

I core right through the 6" to 8" thick stone, install the wire and connections then fill the bottom of the core hole with pea gravel for drainage. I then set the fixture into the hole such that it is flush to the top surface of the stone. Then I will either use mortar to seal the fixture edge to the stone if the patio/path is wet laid. If the patio/path is dry laid, then I will use a clear silicone and take some of the granite chips and filings from the core drill and press them into the silicone before it sets. This finishes the installation off very nicely.

Enjoy.

ChampionLS
01-11-2008, 02:40 PM
Couple of things...

When installing paver accent lighting, the fixture was specifically designed for that purpose. Pavingstones are laid on 1" of sand, and that sand is laid on 4-8" (typically) or crushed, compacted aggregate base. The fixture installs directly into the paving stone after coring. This provides load bearing and helps protect the fixture and lens. The fixtures are 2-3/8" and 2-3/4" (two versions that match the heights of concrete pavers) and install from the bottom up. There is no disturbance of the bedding sand, or aggregate base which can cause future settling and loss of integrity of the paving work over time.

When installing conventional up lighting, most of the fixtures are deeper than the thickness of the paving material (whether it be concrete pavers, brick, blue stone, flagstone or even a concrete slab) This means you will have to core into, and possibly dig the base material away to route wiring and install the fixture. It would be advisable to use good quality hand tools (available through irrigation suppliers) and assure to properly compact all base material around the fixture.

There are several techniques for coring down into concrete and stone.

1) You can use a contractor's 1/2" capacity electric drill adapted to a water-swivel and diamond core bit to drill by hand. (most economical but also the most time consuming)

2) You can use a professional core drill which has more power, more rpm and built in water-swivel. (more costly, but much faster) These can also be rented.

3) You can buy or rent a core drill rig, which looks like a outdoor drill press. Normally, you would drill and install masonry anchors first, then temporarily bolt the unit down. This way you can use more force when drilling large diameter holes. Now since your working at a residence, your NOT gonna do that. What we do is place the unit on a rubber mat (truck floor mat or shower pan liner) and stand on the base while operating the drill. You have to do it slowly and carefully, but it does work. Be prepared to get wet and dirty. Wheres Mike Rowe when you need him? lol...

klkanders
01-11-2008, 04:41 PM
Thanks Guys!
James are those 6-8" Granite stones being used for driveways, patios, or both? Seems a little on the thick side.
We still have one street in town that was purposely left paved with granite which was a big business in this area back in the quary days. Many of our downtown buildings were made during this timeframe also with the blocks. Most was railed out East to places like Chicago. Sorry to ramble on but thought it might be of interest

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-11-2008, 04:55 PM
The bigger the home the thicker the granite flag stone. It is sort of crazy here but some of the very high end homes are having 6" thick granite flag laid for paths and patios. Then there are the risers (steps) these can be 8" to 12" thick and usually 5' wide at a minimum. It isnt uncommon for hardscaping of a couple of paths and patios to run well into the six figures.

ChampionLS
01-13-2008, 03:29 AM
Just came across these in a boxed set. They are from the PLM group in the UK. Personally, I'm not that fond of it. Too harsh for my liking. My opinions are still leaning away from LED's for now.

pete scalia
01-13-2008, 04:06 PM
Just came across these in a boxed set. They are from the PLM group in the UK. Personally, I'm not that fond of it. Too harsh for my liking. My opinions are still leaning away from LED's for now.

Looks like a product suited for DIYers. Probably soon to be sold at Home Depot or some other facsimile of it.

Pro-Scapes
03-22-2008, 12:51 AM
Had another chance to fit some novas in on an older house this week. Was alot of work but well worth it in the end. How is everyone drilling out thier retrofit jobs ? this one had HARD concrete under it. We drilled a series of smaller holes around the perimeter then used a larger bit to clean it out. Siliconed it in before mortar.

Lite4
03-22-2008, 10:35 AM
Tough install Billy, nice job. When retrofitting in concrete I will use a concrete cutting and sawing company to come in and core drill the holes for me. They are very fast and at 150 per hour it is a bargain because they can usually cut all the holes I need done in that time frame. Their core driller is a non impact driven drill so it won't crack any concrete out around the holes.

Pro-Scapes
03-22-2008, 12:11 PM
my hardscape friend did the mortar work for me and helped with the holes. If I continue to do work like this I will look into a core drill or a company to come and help me. Its very time consuming when you do it yourself but really worth the effort. Without them there was a giant black hole in the install and there was also not enough overhang on the house to afford a downlight

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-22-2008, 12:58 PM
I just rent a Bosch SDS MAX rotary hammer drill and the appropriate size core drill for the application. You can switch the hammer function on the drill unit on and off.

For about $75 a day, you cannot go wrong. The equipment is always new and functioning and you just build the rental costs into the job.

Have a great day.

JoeyD
03-24-2008, 12:46 PM
Very cool Billy!

ChampionLS
03-26-2008, 01:55 AM
Check it out.

You can remove the side rails on our Adjustable Coring Template and use it flat. This way the core bit won't walk across the surface of your pavement. All you need is a concrete cut off saw with a diamond blade to cut the mortar away and embed your wire. Those three lights can be installed, with wiring in about 1/2 hour. Our template is only for 2-1/2" diameter lights, but one could be made from plywood for other sizes using a hole saw. I would stray away from using a hammer bit. That will chip up the pavement too much. Even worse with clay brick.

Eden Lights
06-12-2008, 12:57 AM
Here are some Nova's we installed this week, 2.5" sleeves where installed months ago and tile man didn't get in tight so we ran a line of brown silicone around the bases. Turned out excellent, we are only flushing fixtures now for a hefty premium due to all the baby sitting required.

Chris J
06-12-2008, 01:05 AM
I asked this on the other thread, but what are the things sticking up near the fixtures?

Eden Lights
06-12-2008, 01:12 AM
I asked this on the other thread, but what are the things sticking up near the fixtures?
Brass tubing and nipples for drip irrigation that was roughed in for large planters that go in front of the fixtures.

Pro-Scapes
06-12-2008, 02:01 AM
looks great Eden. We have some nova stars going in right now and I got a feeling I need to go babysit a bit.