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greenmonster304
10-18-2007, 09:07 PM
today we rebuilt a system that was about 25-30 years old because for no reason at all every few weeks it would get a split in the pipe about 2"-3" long. this happened about 10 times this summer so i convinced the owner we need to rebuild this system becase its crazy to keep putting couplings all over the place. and no one was noticing this problem untill it washed out the hill because the owner is only at the house a few times a month. any one ever have this experiance?

Mike Leary
10-18-2007, 09:11 PM
End of service life..nickel dime clients forever..replace..start over.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-18-2007, 09:15 PM
was it non nsf pipe?

Ive had some wicked brittle stuff in the ground..I mean It cracked when i gripped it....Im pretty sure it was old non nsf pipe..wicked cheap crap...we ripped it all up and put in good poly...

greenmonster304
10-18-2007, 09:30 PM
it wasn't brittle at all

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-18-2007, 09:31 PM
it wasn't brittle at all


weird..what size 1 inch?

greenmonster304
10-18-2007, 09:45 PM
inch and a quarter

Flow Control
10-18-2007, 09:48 PM
prob endot

WalkGood
10-19-2007, 12:29 AM
inch and a quarter

Hey neighbor

Is this residential with 1 1/4 inch poly? Big property?

Anywho, are there signs that the break areas are old scorings/scratches from when the poly was pulled? Was the water pressure increased recently?

I know that some areas around us, the water pressure was boosted big time perhaps in an attempt to keep up with all the new houses going up.

greenmonster304
10-19-2007, 08:26 AM
it didnt look like it was scored with anything it just poped and it is on a well not street water

PurpHaze
10-19-2007, 09:21 AM
Man o' man... need some pics. It's usually us pipe guys taking the hits here and would be nice to see poly take its place in the "occasionally goes bad" arena. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
10-19-2007, 09:23 AM
I think most Endot utility pipe problems showed up immediately. I have seen old systems with pipe that's become very prone to failure, and a repiping is the only effective solution in the long run.

I wonder how many similar problems are affecting systems installed with NSF-rated poly. Good producers like Oil Creek and Charter seem to be capable of making reliable utility pipe, with no callbacks. Is it as simple as never using reground material when making utility-grade? Or is there more to it?

Mjtrole
10-19-2007, 04:47 PM
NSF is National Sanitation Foundation approved piping, Non is well, not NSF approved or rated.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-19-2007, 05:25 PM
I have 1 account with non nsf pipe 1 ''..

Ever 4 weeks I'm going there to replace a brass saddle or fix a guyser.Basically putting bandaids on an abortion waiting to happen....
H/O still wont shell out the $$ for a new system..but @ 100$ a wack every 3 weeks hell figure it out in about never..

JK.....

Without A Drought
10-19-2007, 08:19 PM
i've been using Non NSF for over 10 years and VERY rarely encounter a a problem related to pressure, and it's much easier to work with.

I've also seen, maybe 2 or 3 times in those 10 years, a system that had a bad batch of poly. i repair once, twice, then start renozzling and installing PRV's, then go to a complete rebuild.

It sounds kinda of scabby, and i HATE callbacks, but the service fees on those can get pretty expensive.

Needless to say, i think i've developed an eye for those jobs and can usually convince the customer to re-pipe/build.

Some of the stuff i've seen, if you pinch it, you can hear it cracking in your fingers.

pg

Mike Leary
10-19-2007, 08:38 PM
::holding breath for all these poly posts:: O.K., no one has ever pinched our
schedule 40 & "heard it cracking in your fingers" No way...sch 40 rules!
:waving:

Without A Drought
10-19-2007, 08:43 PM
yeah, but you can't pull PVC in a 6' radius.

and, (and i know some people pull PVC), who wants to backfill all those trenches.

don't get me wrong, i like working with PVC, i think you have to think a little more than with Poly, but in terms of speed, ease of installation and service, and maneuverability, poly wins. (under size 1.5", of course)

pg

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-19-2007, 08:50 PM
::holding breath for all these poly posts:: O.K., no one has ever pinched our
schedule 40 & "heard it cracking in your fingers" No way...sch 40 rules!
:waving:



Keep telling yourself that pallie..


Poly=king ding a ling when it comes to pipe installation.
You haven't seen poly in action until you seen someone turn 180 in a short amount of time/feet with the pipe in the ground...

Ive watched zones get installed in the matter of minutes with just 3 guys.
no doubt.
I'm sorry mike your wrong pal..poly=top money making dog.

but alas i still respect your opinion.



CSR

Mike Leary
10-19-2007, 08:52 PM
yeah, but you can't pull PVC in a 6' radius.
don't get me wrong, i like working with PVC, i think you have to think a little more than with Poly,

I had hoped for a reply like yours..poly has it's place (200 psi w/Ford pack
joints) but it's application for us out here rather than the norm: potable
runs from p.o.c. are poly..irrigation is sch 40. :::add in low lifes class 200
or worse:::

Without A Drought
10-19-2007, 09:06 PM
Rather than getting in a debate over pipe choices, i'd rather ask this:

Why do you think the types of pipe are popular in various areas? Seems like Poly is mostly regulated the Northeast, where it's rocky and hard. PVC/trenching seems like the better choice. other regions where it's much more sandy (i almost typed "sandier"), PVC/trenching reigns supreme. seems counter productive.

One thing i was thinking of is in our area we are almost exclusively city water. lower pressure/volume. so we very rarely enter into the 100+ PSI range (which is riskier with poly).

other than that i can't find a real good reason why one type is used over the other relative to locale.

any thoughts?


pg

Mike Leary
10-19-2007, 09:18 PM
Rather than getting in a debate over pipe choices, i'd rather ask this:

Why do you think the types of pipe are popular in various areas? Seems like Poly is mostly regulated the Northeast, where it's rocky and hard. PVC/trenching seems like the better choice. other regions where it's much more sandy (i almost typed "sandier"), PVC/trenching reigns supreme. seems counter productive.

One thing i was thinking of is in our area we are almost exclusively city water. lower pressure/volume. so we very rarely enter into the 100+ PSI range (which is riskier with poly).

other than that i can't find a real good reason why one type is used over the other relative to locale.

any thoughts?


pg

Mom just called for supper.....will get back...mite re read post.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-19-2007, 09:23 PM
Rather than getting in a debate over pipe choices, i'd rather ask this:

Why do you think the types of pipe are popular in various areas? Seems like Poly is mostly regulated the Northeast, where it's rocky and hard. PVC/trenching seems like the better choice. other regions where it's much more sandy (i almost typed "sandier"), PVC/trenching reigns supreme. seems counter productive.

One thing i was thinking of is in our area we are almost exclusively city water. lower pressure/volume. so we very rarely enter into the 100+ PSI range (which is riskier with poly).

other than that i can't find a real good reason why one type is used over the other relative to locale.

any thoughts?


pg

amen..

ive never come across 100 psi..Best static from city water is on a house WITH KILLA town pressure cause its by the water....I mean boy....its like 80 pounds...They have a reducer for the in house water...no lie..And thats the biggest i've ever seen...Where in pvc land are they installing systems with over 100 running pressure..

WalkGood
10-19-2007, 10:47 PM
? Seems like Poly is mostly regulated the Northeast, where it's rocky and hard. PVC/trenching seems like the better choice. other regions where it's much more sandy (i almost typed "sandier"), PVC/trenching reigns supreme. seems counter productive.



Not sure about other north east diggings, but Long Island is easy digging for the most part..... sandy soils...... this is a GINORMOUS sand bar island. Except of course for tree roots and buried crud by builders (newer homes have more buried rock fill than older homes).

Easy digging but we pull poly here on residential. Commercial is more PVC but still has some poly.

Wet_Boots
10-20-2007, 10:20 AM
Poly pipe doesn't get destroyed by frost-and-heave forces, which makes it good cold-weather choice. Spec work in sand-filled trenches doesn't seem to suffer from frost-and-heave. I wonder what the cold-weather track record of various PVC pipes (grade, age, manufacturer) are in systems with the pipe being pulled.