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View Full Version : 60X60 front yard:turf and shrubs?


CAPT Stream Rotar
10-21-2007, 09:14 PM
GPM=12
psi @ the backflow= 50 lbs

What would you all do?


Out here on the ye olde cape cod we would prob use pgp's with 1.5 nozzles on the half and 3 gpm nozzles in the middle..

obviously were not talking crazy shrub beds...Lets say, shrub beds by the house and a 10X10 in the dead smack middle.

Don't be a jerk and get to techky.

CSR

WalkGood
10-21-2007, 10:58 PM
Are you throwing into the corners, or using 1/4 turns located in the corners?

melior quam pluvia
10-21-2007, 11:55 PM
I'd use mini rotors like the Hunter PGJ or the same for less $$$....the K-Rain Mini Pro.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-22-2007, 12:02 AM
I'd use mini rotors like the Hunter PGJ or the same for less $$$....the K-Rain Mini Pro.

Something tells me CSR isn't going to like your suggestion. Welcome to the site by the way.

WalkGood
10-22-2007, 12:23 AM
Yo, "Better than rain" (aka melior quam pluvia)...... are you a regular who is trolling to bait Rotar?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-22-2007, 06:53 AM
Yo, "Better than rain" (aka melior quam pluvia)...... are you a regular who is trolling to bait Rotar?

What if Rotar is trying to bait himself?

Wet_Boots
10-22-2007, 08:31 AM
(waiting for Pluvia to recommend Shrubblers)

PurpHaze
10-22-2007, 08:42 AM
A lot will depend on local custom and hydrozones. You may need a separate zone for the house shrub bed depending on plantings and whether or not they'd block the spray that you're attempting to get to the turf. Personally I'd set up a separate zone for it.

If you're going to have a shrub bed in the center of the turf area... again... it will depend on plantings and whether or not they can handle overhead watering and the amount of water to be applied to the turf.

Rotators, mini-rotors and mid-rotors can fit in with all the nozzle choices you have depending on how you want to proceed.

WalkGood
10-22-2007, 09:25 AM
What if Rotar is trying to bait himself?


Well, I hope he doesn't upload a video showing THAT! :dizzy: :nono:


My gut guess is Ed wouldn't make a pseudo name in Latin. Hmmmmm.... have YOU had any blackout periods of time?

Kiril
10-22-2007, 10:03 AM
A lot will depend on local custom and hydrozones. You may need a separate zone for the house shrub bed depending on plantings and whether or not they'd block the spray that you're attempting to get to the turf. Personally I'd set up a separate zone for it.

If you're going to have a shrub bed in the center of the turf area... again... it will depend on plantings and whether or not they can handle overhead watering and the amount of water to be applied to the turf.

Rotators, mini-rotors and mid-rotors can fit in with all the nozzle choices you have depending on how you want to proceed.

Agreed. Depending on the plant types in the center bed, you may consider extending the shrub zone to that area assuming similar growing conditions with the other beds.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-22-2007, 10:07 AM
Well, I hope he doesn't upload a video showing THAT! :dizzy: :nono:


My gut guess is Ed wouldn't make a pseudo name in Latin. Hmmmmm.... have YOU had any blackout periods of time?

Any theories on who our latin jester is? This could be like a game of CLUE. I know M.L. occasionally makes references to using latin names on plant species with customers. He also likes to bait CSR. So I think it was ML in the airstream with a MAC and fueled by cabernet.

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 10:10 AM
No trolling here. Just a new member with a bit of experience. Mini rotors are great for smaller areas like a 60x60 and can attain great coverage with proper spacing even with a planter dead center. Why would someone not like my answer? Is it b/c of the 2 brands I recommended? I apolgize for not taking the time and searching into what this member likes or dislikes. There's no difference in certain products between the 2 brands IMO. I'm not familiar with "Rotar."
My apologies....I'll look for the "introduce yourself" section to properly introduce myself.

Wet_Boots
10-22-2007, 10:23 AM
No sweat, just pick it up as you go along, and allow us dullards to crack wise over any and all postings.

Kiril
10-22-2007, 10:29 AM
I'm not familiar with "Rotar."

Then I would prepare yourself to get slammed by him, just don't take it personally/seriously. :laugh:

WalkGood
10-22-2007, 10:46 AM
Any theories on who our latin jester is? This could be like a game of CLUE. I know M.L. occasionally makes references to using latin names on plant species with customers. He also likes to bait CSR. So I think it was ML in the airstream with a MAC and fueled by cabernet.


Hmmmm.... notice that Fimco and Leary are never online at the same time as our new Latin Irrigation Lover? :confused:

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 10:47 AM
no reason to get personal...it's the internet:) Being where irrigation is installed year round, you tend to be open to options. I now see he's had issue with Hunter products? I've had pretty good luck with the K-Rain rotors. Never had issue with the Mini Pro.
Down here, residential construction has nearly come to a halt. We have had time to really look at our costs. With everyone looking to stay busy in the commercial end, it's developed an even more viscous pricing game. So, we reduce overhead and look at the products available. We've discovered some things that I wish we had done years ago. We'd have that much more sitting in the bank right now.

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 10:53 AM
Hmmmm.... notice that Fimco and Leary are never online at the same time as our new Latin Irrigation Lover? :confused:

BTW....I was born in Arkansas....you can refrain from the jokes as I've heard most already.*trucewhiteflag*

Wet_Boots
10-22-2007, 11:02 AM
with place names like Toad Suck, we already know those wacky Arkansanians have a sense of humor...

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-22-2007, 11:13 AM
BTW....I was born in Arkansas....you can refrain from the jokes as I've heard most already.*trucewhiteflag*

Welcome to the site once again. Arkansas as any Texan knows is a gorgeous state. Wish the Razorbacks were in the Big 12 to renew some old rivalries though. We have fun here but like to poke sticks to see if we can get a rise now and then.

Mike Leary
10-22-2007, 11:58 AM
BTW....I was born in Arkansas....you can refrain from the jokes as I've heard most already.*trucewhiteflag*

White flags don't work around here 'cause we're all color blind, like bulls.
Welcome to the site. None of us will KNOWINGLY lead you down the
wrong path, but be carefull of trap doors.:laugh:

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-22-2007, 12:47 PM
K-rain.


HA!

Mike I would prob throw 2 to the corner..Keep all the half's on a zone and keep the 360's on one zone...Lets say the plantings are your typical builder stuff. Nothing fancy..What we do when we have to stretch zones with turff and shrub bed, is just allow over spray into the bed...Which for us works out fine..I know you should try to make a separate zone but sometimes its just not in people's budget...

lol the new guy is making me laugh...

londonrain
10-22-2007, 01:07 PM
I would go MpRotators ......

jimmyburg
10-22-2007, 02:22 PM
Welcome to the site once again. Arkansas as any Texan knows is a gorgeous state. Wish the Razorbacks were in the Big 12 to renew some old rivalries though. We have fun here but like to poke sticks to see if we can get a rise now and then.

Welcome, just tread lightly, these guys will have you for lunch if your facts are wrong.:waving: :drinkup:

Mike Leary
10-22-2007, 02:24 PM
Welcome, just tread lightly, these guys will have you for lunch if your facts are wrong.:waving: :drinkup:

What did someone call us a while ago?......VIPERS!

Wet_Boots
10-22-2007, 02:36 PM
ve vant to vipe your vindows

Ground Master
10-22-2007, 03:05 PM
50 psi at the backflow? Is that static or dynamic pressure?

Mike Leary
10-22-2007, 04:56 PM
50 psi at the backflow? Is that static or dynamic pressure?

What does that got to do with vipers? Whoops, someone hi jacked the thread
& we lemmings followed blindly into the usual viperism.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-22-2007, 04:59 PM
50 psi at the backflow? Is that static or dynamic pressure?

static...............

Mike Leary
10-22-2007, 05:03 PM
Start figuring friction loss.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-22-2007, 05:08 PM
you all=a pack of unruly jackals

with mike leary usually leading the pack.


omg wait what?

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-22-2007, 05:09 PM
Start figuring friction loss.

take your friction loss where the sun dont shine....

pallie.

Mike Leary
10-22-2007, 05:13 PM
take your friction loss where the sun dont shine....

pallie.

What, you all tired out from that dancing? I can trench with the best of them:
"Only Greek fishermen should wear Greek fisherman's hats, only the Amish
should wear little beards".

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 09:05 PM
I'm not don't wear Greek fisherman's hat's nor do I have an Amish food catcher.

Look, Mr. Leary and myself are online at the same time...someone speculating I was a Pseudo poster.


Mr. Rotar.....What problems have you seen with the K-Rain rotors? I've had great luck with them and have put a lot to the bottom line.

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 09:21 PM
....Atleast I should say when specs allow equivelent or it's my own design.

londonrain
10-22-2007, 10:06 PM
Mr. Rotar.....What problems have you seen with the K-Rain rotors? I've had great luck with them and have put a lot to the bottom line.They
stop rotating , leaking wiper seals and don't retract....

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 10:52 PM
They
stop rotating , leaking wiper seals and don't retract....

The only I've seen is a leaking wiper seal, but can be cured with pushing the riser down on the Pro Plus. We've also been using their PGP knockoff (RPS)and haven't had a single issue yet. It's been an easy swap for the spec'd jobs and we've been beating out bids left and right....and making more money.

I'm curious if the issues you've seen is due to maybe different soil conditions?
We have coarse to fine sandy soils here as well as some corral.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-22-2007, 11:00 PM
If it's a spec job can you swap a lower cost product? As a loyal supply house buyer I don't like that I see K rains in the big boxes.

melior quam pluvia
10-22-2007, 11:26 PM
If it's a spec job can you swap a lower cost product? As a loyal supply house buyer I don't like that I see K rains in the big boxes.

yes.
As long as the spec calls for "Or equivelent." Right now, Pricing is everything.
Tell me what manufacturer isn't in the big boxes.....Rainbird, Toro, K-Rain, Hunter (Under Orbits name....it's a PGP). That argument is old down here. I used it at the distribution level to sell a rotor and heard it at the manuf. level. Now, I sell my service and the difference between the retail/comm. products. They do call me afterall b/c they don't want to install it themselves.
I haven't looked at the sprinklers in the big boxes lately, but I'm pretty sure there is a difference still between all manuf. retail and comm products.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-23-2007, 06:22 AM
Equivalent is open to pretty broad interpretation. As I service person if I show up to a job and see a K-Rain installed I'm expecting the worse. K-Rain to me is the modern Lawn Genie. Having said that you are right about what is in the big box. My last trip through HD had lots of RB stuff on display. Not happy about it.

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 09:32 AM
Equivalent is open to pretty broad interpretation. As I service person if I show up to a job and see a K-Rain installed I'm expecting the worse. K-Rain to me is the modern Lawn Genie. Having said that you are right about what is in the big box. My last trip through HD had lots of RB stuff on display. Not happy about it.

I know everyone has their likes and has had issue with every rotor out there. Mr. Rotar has issues with the PGP and it's the #1 Produced, #1 Selling rotor on the market. The Rainbird is the #3 Produced, #2 Selling rotor on the market. K-Rain is the #2 Produced (OEM), #4 selling rotor on the market. Toro being the #4 Produced, #3 Selling.
I use the 5004 and PGP when I have too. I don't use the Toro rotor b/c K-Rain makes it and you can buy the K-Rain for less. I use the K-Rain Pro Plus and RPS whenever I can. It's an opportunity for me to make more money w/o value engineering. A lot of the counties and municipalities spec K-Rain down here.
Like I said, I know people use what they're used to using. I'm not pressing my likes on others. I'm just expressing how one could make more money. That's really my point.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-23-2007, 04:24 PM
When i see K-complain rotors in the ground like fimco said I usually expect the worse from the system...I only have a few accounts with them.I would rather use the weathermatic rotor than than that Krap-rain..

But I totally agree with you guy, if they are making $$ and your not having any problems,then there should be no problem..



I live in a cold climate and for some reason in New England they are junk....

cheers to making money....i guess.

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 06:03 PM
cheers to making money....i guess.

Right arm ROTAR! If profit is the first motive, I'd sell shoes. I have not, will
not, go into a big box store to "shop" irrigation or anything else for that
matter. I have made good money using the best IMHO, screwing around with
nickel dime this and that product is demeaning to the client & yourself.
If you have to make a profit off the money saved by buying a cheaper
product & screwing around with the "or equivalent" you get my "jerk of the
week" award.:hammerhead:

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-23-2007, 06:11 PM
Right arm ROTAR! If profit is the first motive, I'd sell shoes. I have not, will
not, go into a big box store to "shop" irrigation or anything else for that
matter. I have made good money using the best IMHO, screwing around with
nickel dime this and that product is demeaning to the client & yourself.
If you have to make a profit off the money saved by buying a cheaper
product & screwing around with the "or equivalent" you get my "jerk of the
week" award.:hammerhead:

hey pal this better not be directed @ me MR. leary..I dont put that Krap into the ground.

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 06:16 PM
hey pal this better not be directed @ me MR. leary..I dont put that Krap into the ground.

NO NO NO! It was directed at the one who came out of
nowhere with opinions that put me into the wall. ::trap door opens::

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 07:04 PM
I guess I missed where I acted like that and deserved the reciprocated gesture.
Like I said, I'm aware of the fact that people use what they've used for years. I'm not here pressing my ideas or thoughts upon anyone in any excessive manner. I guess if I had 3000 posts, you'd receive my input better? Don't think so. People are afraid of change.
Uh...where did anyone mention of shopping in a big box store? lol. If you paid attention to what I've said and weren't so resistant to change, you could have saved your internet savvy for something more useful. It's nearly ignorance. You make perfect sense considering Profit is not your priority. :hammerhead: You must be here to pass time...waiting to check out. It might be easier to pass time working as a key cutter in a "big box store."
A simple "no thanks" would have worked from the get go.

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 07:08 PM
It's nearly ignorance.
A simple "no thanks" would have worked .

No thanks. Lose the latin b.s. don't cut it around here.

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 07:09 PM
gimme back my ball, :walking: I'm going home.....lol:drinkup:

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 07:14 PM
gimme back my ball, :walking: I'm going home.....lol:drinkup:

Even..on the same level..welcome back!:drinkup:

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 07:41 PM
AutoRain is a pretty large distributor in Washington. I know they sell every brand and sell quite a bit of K-Rain.:) Then again, they're about 240 miles from you.

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 07:49 PM
AutoRain is a pretty large distributor in Washington. I know they sell every brand and sell quite a bit of K-Rain.:) Then again, they're about 240 miles from you.

I know Auto Rain....they're the only ones that have brass saddles for poly.
Keeping you on a short leash, quam. Welcome to this country.

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 07:50 PM
No thanks. Lose the latin b.s. don't cut it around here.

I missed your edit here at first. I missed where I was being an ***. Point that out so I can address the issue.

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 07:53 PM
I know Auto Rain....they're the only ones that have brass saddles for poly.
Keeping you on a short leash, quam. Welcome to this country.


Maybe you missed where I said I was originally from Arkansas.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-23-2007, 07:56 PM
Melior Quam Pluvia-I like the cut of your jib.Very intraweb esque/Pwning.

Welcome to lawn site, Most of these people are old burn-outs from the 60's that are minorly Cranky 24-7.

How much do you buy a box of the K-rains for?

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 07:58 PM
Maybe you missed where I said I was originally from Arkansas.

::quam gets out Kenyon shovel, digs himself further down to mainline depth::

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 08:18 PM
I missed a bit of the warm welcome...lol. I have never got around on a irrigation forum before. Maybe I came across a bit strong. I was just expressing what has worked for me and has made me money. I haven't grown by value engineering or sacrificing quality.

The other thing is I know there is a lot different prices in different markets.
Down here......
K-Rain Pro Plus is about $.60-.90 cents less than a Super 800/CR500 which K-Rain makes for Toro/Irritrol. My guys love it b/c it's simple to adjust, 5 yr. warranty.
RPS 75(PGP knockoff) $1.00 less than a PGP...not a single issue and every designer is okay with the change. It's the same as Irritrol 450R/Nelson 6100 which K-Rain makes as well. Same tools, same nozzles. As I've been told, Krain holds the patten on the gear drive and it's licensed to Hunter. I've heard different versions as well. The Pro Plus has the same gear box as the PGP/RPS as well.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-23-2007, 08:20 PM
Melior Quam Pluvia-I like the cut of your jib.Very intraweb esque/Pwning.

Welcome to lawn site, Most of these people are old burn-outs from the 60's that are minorly Cranky 24-7.

How much do you buy a box of the K-rains for?

Just remember we've forgotten more cr-p than you'll ever know.

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 08:23 PM
::quam gets out Kenyon shovel, digs himself further down to mainline depth::

I like root pruning shovels with steel handles...a cool 50# shovel. In some parts here, we're required to backfill with clean fill...no rocks allowed.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-23-2007, 08:26 PM
Just remember we've forgotten more cr-p than you'll ever know.

Kick rocks grandpa..Shouldn't you be googling Prosthetic limbs or something?

Honestly how much longer do you think you will be doing irrigation @ your age?1/2 years tops? I suggest you start walking down the path of humble pride.
just trying to look out fer ya gramps.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-23-2007, 09:26 PM
Kick rocks grandpa..Shouldn't you be googling Prosthetic limbs or something?

Honestly how much longer do you think you will be doing irrigation @ your age?1/2 years tops? I suggest you start walking down the path of humble pride.
just trying to look out fer ya gramps.

Huhhhh?? Sorry can't here ya. Speak a little louder. Need my dadgum hearing aids.

londonrain
10-23-2007, 10:22 PM
When we service a system with K-Rains my partner always says" its got k-rains"
and that means we will be replacing rotors...

melior quam pluvia
10-23-2007, 10:49 PM
When we service a system with K-Rains my partner always says" its got k-rains"
and that means we will be replacing rotors...

Perception is difficult to change. I have an open mind and am open to change. Things change daily. 2006 was record numbers. 2007 is a filter process for those lacking the business skills.

londonrain
10-23-2007, 11:18 PM
Perception is difficult to change. I have an open mind and am open to change. Things change daily. 2006 was record numbers. 2007 is a filter process for those lacking the business skills.
No perception just the truth......I don't care if other contractors install k-rains, matter of fact I like when they do, because I know they wont come back and service the system when the rotors fail. Why wont they come back because they cant make any money going back and replacing failed parts because they already went cheap. Ie: save a $1 on a rotor and it will cost you an average of $75 going back and replacing a failed rotor.. If they are going cheap on one of the only parts that a customer can see, just image what is installed under ground.... Cheap up top= cheap down low.....Also if someone is needing to saving $20-$30 a system by using a cheaper rotor then that is considered a bottom feeder IMO and I don't compete with bottom feeders.
When you do enough service then you know what lasts and what does not, which = the truth not perception....:rolleyes: k-rain

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 06:33 AM
No perception just the truth......I don't care if other contractors install k-rains, matter of fact I like when they do, because I know they wont come back and service the system when the rotors fail. Why wont they come back because they cant make any money going back and replacing failed parts because they already went cheap. Ie: save a $1 on a rotor and it will cost you an average of $75 going back and replacing a failed rotor.. If they are going cheap on one of the only parts that a customer can see, just image what is installed under ground.... Cheap up top= cheap down low.....Also if someone is needing to saving $20-$30 a system by using a cheaper rotor then that is considered a bottom feeder IMO and I don't compete with bottom feeders.
When you do enough service then you know what lasts and what does not, which = the truth not perception....:rolleyes: k-rain

Except for the fact i can't dig worth a flip anymore. (Can't drive, chip or putt either:cry: ) You and I could trade places LR and I don't know that our customers would miss a beat.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 06:37 AM
Except for the fact i can't dig worth a flip anymore. (Can't drive, chip or putt either:cry: ) You and I could trade places LR and I don't know that our customers would miss a beat.

To bad you couldn't hire my shovel this winter.....If I feed my shovel right it sometimes thinks too.....SOMETIMES

Kiril
10-24-2007, 08:24 AM
IMO, we (workers in the construction industry) are an industry of service, not material sales. If people focus more on that, and less on maximizing material markups, then perhaps there will be more emphasis placed on quality instead of quantity.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2007, 08:28 AM
Then explain the Yugo

Hope you're clear of any wildfires.

Kiril
10-24-2007, 08:34 AM
I have no answer for the Yugo, or the Pinto for that matter. :)

No fires here, but that is some pretty messy stuff going on down south.
Perhaps a Yugo or Pinto caused it?

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 08:35 AM
To bad you couldn't hire my shovel this winter.....If I feed my shovel right it sometimes thinks too.....SOMETIMES

My shovel thinks. He thinks I'm wasting his time and makes snide remarks to the flat shovel behind my back.:cry:

Wet_Boots
10-24-2007, 08:46 AM
"While my shovel gently weeps...."

jimmyburg
10-24-2007, 10:06 AM
I missed a bit of the warm welcome...lol. I have never got around on a irrigation forum before. Maybe I came across a bit strong. I was just expressing what has worked for me and has made me money. I haven't grown by value engineering or sacrificing quality.

The other thing is I know there is a lot different prices in different markets.
Down here......
K-Rain Pro Plus is about $.60-.90 cents less than a Super 800/CR500 which K-Rain makes for Toro/Irritrol. My guys love it b/c it's simple to adjust, 5 yr. warranty.
RPS 75(PGP knockoff) $1.00 less than a PGP...not a single issue and every designer is okay with the change. It's the same as Irritrol 450R/Nelson 6100 which K-Rain makes as well. Same tools, same nozzles. As I've been told, Krain holds the patten on the gear drive and it's licensed to Hunter. I've heard different versions as well. The Pro Plus has the same gear box as the PGP/RPS as well.

:nono: dont let these guys? get your feathers in a up roar. Mike was on me earlier this week, it will pass. once they know what gets your goat they will feed on it till you break:dizzy: :hammerhead:

londonrain
10-24-2007, 12:24 PM
You and I could trade places LR and I don't know that our customers would miss a beat. We drive the same model truck, use the same remote and we only lived less than 3 miles apart when I lived in Richardson....lol....but I only use plastic nozzles and you use brass would they know?....Naw

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 03:30 PM
LOL today i blew out a system.. with all K-rain rotors..I thought of that spanish guy username.. And when we were done half of them stayed up..I almost fell over and wish i had the camera with me....no doubt..

the k stands for Krap.

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 04:00 PM
[QUOTE=CAPT S.I thought of that spanish guy username...[/QUOTE]

Latin from Arkansas:hammerhead:

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 04:11 PM
Latin from Arkansas:hammerhead:


Who ever the hell it was I almost fell over....They guy I work with Ronnie pointed it out to me..

"Why are those rotors all staying up after we just put Good air pressure out through them?"

me,"HA,Kr@p-Rain heads;they might of well just put in Orbits and called it a day."

lol

londonrain
10-24-2007, 04:39 PM
Who ever the hell it was I almost fell over....They guy I work with Ronnie pointed it out to me..

"Why are those rotors all staying up after we just put Good air pressure out through them?"

me,"HA,Kr@p-Rain heads;they might of well just put in Orbits and called it a day."

lol
Say it ain't so Rotar.....heeeheee
And I quote myself again
They
stop rotating , leaking wiper seals and don't retract....

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 04:42 PM
Say it ain't so Rotar.....heeeheee
And I quote myself again



Complete truth...I wish i had the camera with.....

worst.rotAr.on.the.market.ever...

There i said it...

londonrain
10-24-2007, 05:03 PM
Complete truth...I wish i had the camera with.....

worst.rotAr.on.the.market.ever...

There i said it...
I almost kills me when peeps come on the site talking up products.. IE its cheaper and better / its the same as a (you fill in the blank) you can save $20 a system if you use this or that....what ever

.... :hammerhead: why did my 1 year old rotar stop working? I am:confused: they said it was the same :nono:... It will cost me how much for a replacement head payup : I need :help: ,but he said it was the same :realmad: is that the jackleg in that truck who installed my system last year :gmctruck:
I know a lot of people lurk and never post so the truth must be told....

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 05:08 PM
K-Rain sent a letter a few months back to most irrigators here looking for a territory sales rep. Just got a card in the mail from a supply house promoting a K-Rain sale on their "just like the PGP head" for 6.95 each. i suspect we will see a few more K-Rain attempts to drive sales.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 05:15 PM
Krain=below orbit in my honesty opinon.

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 05:23 PM
Krain=below orbit in my honesty opinon.

Below Orbit? Wow, that is the slam of the week. That would be like someone
making a crummier clock than the Greenskeeper.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 05:24 PM
Below Orbit? Wow, that is the slam of the week. That would be like someone
making a crummier clock than the Greenskeeper.


Truth.com.confirmed.

londonrain
10-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Below Orbit? Wow, that is the slam of the week. That would be like someone
making a crummier clock than the Greenskeeper.
They did its called the toro ecx ..oops its the same clock but sold at the big box stores.....

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 06:19 PM
They did its called the toro ecx

Ah the "Extra Crummy Xeno".

melior quam pluvia
10-24-2007, 11:02 PM
It's funny the ignorance....typical of internet jockies. No one is here trying to sell anything. I made a simple suggestion and some act like I recommended Orbits....which Hunter makes for them.:hammerhead:

I'd love to see a pic of that job. I think you're full of it....been in a ditch too long. IF they were K-Rain heads, I'm sure they are much older. Probably don't even have raised letters on the rubber cover. That would show they are older than 5 yrs. I've had my shared of issues with EVERY product. I'm sure most of you were around when Rainbird had their bouts of issues...along with Hunter and when hasn't Toro had issues. If everything was 100% fullproof, 90% of us would be out of business. There would be no service guys.
I've heard about K-Rain putting more reps all over. They seem to have the right programs right now and their products are working. My distributors don't have issue with the product and the rep here has been much more productive then any of the other reps.
I have no problem keeping my product choices to myself. Have I sat here and bashed anyone else's choices? Funny stuff here. You guys crack me up. Someone pointed out that there are a bunch of old dried up guys here....and it shows. Hey, if what you have been using for 15 yrs. is working for you, keep using it. This industry hasn't changed at all.:rolleyes:

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 11:03 PM
It's funny the ignorance....typical of internet jockies. No one is here trying to sell anything. I made a simple suggestion and some act like I recommended Orbits....which Hunter makes for them.:hammerhead:

I'd love to see a pic of that job. I think you're full of it....been in a ditch too long. IF they were K-Rain heads, I'm sure they are much older. Probably don't even have raised letters on the rubber cover. That would show they are older than 5 yrs. I've had my shared of issues with EVERY product. I'm sure most of you were around when Rainbird had their bouts of issues...along with Hunter and when hasn't Toro had issues. If everything was 100% fullproof, 90% of us would be out of business. There would be no service guys.
I've heard about K-Rain putting more reps all over. They seem to have the right programs right now and their products are working. My distributors don't have issue with the product and the rep here has been much more productive then any of the other reps.
I have no problem keeping my product choices to myself. Have I sat here and bashed anyone else's choices? Funny stuff here. You guys crack me up. Someone pointed out that there are a bunch of old dried up guys here....and it shows. Hey, if what you have been using for 15 yrs. is working for you, keep using it. This industry hasn't changed at all.:rolleyes:

I stopped @ I'd..but bud i have no reason why to lie..

you=cheap contractor...or so it seems.
most of us=good installers in it for the long run.

melior quam pluvia
10-24-2007, 11:12 PM
I stopped @ I'd..but bud i have no reason why to lie..

you=cheap contractor
most of us=good installers in it for the long run.

I use the same products you use bud. I just have a broader line of products available. I'm not limited by any spec bid. I have well rounded relationships and this business is part relationship driven. I've been in this for the long haul. I've made money when the economy is slow and I've made more when it's booming. I'm a business man that loves irrigation and haven't the slightest hesitation to getting dirty.
A cheap contractor is one that isn't called back b/c they've burned that bridge due to quality...not me.

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-24-2007, 11:14 PM
I use the same products you use bud. I just have a broader line of products available. I'm not limited by any spec bid. I have well rounded relationships and this business is part relationship driven. I've been in this for the long haul. I've made money when the economy is slow and I've made more when it's booming. I'm a business man that loves irrigation and haven't the slightest hesitation to getting dirty.
A cheap contractor is one that isn't called back b/c they've burned that bridge due to quality...not me.

i actually retracted that statment somewhat

use pgp's.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 11:36 PM
I'm an old fart, dried like an august weed. I'm so cutting edge though I use brass nozzles.


Seriously though I've seen enough product cycles to be wary of K-Rain. I do use the new RB rotor with the prs/sam and MP rotators plus the WM SL so I'm not scared to try new products. Won't be trying K-Rain though.

melior quam pluvia
10-24-2007, 11:46 PM
No one has uttered the thought of asking you to try anything.;) I didn't know they still made brass nozzles..lol

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 11:55 PM
No one has uttered the thought of asking you to try anything.;) I didn't know they still made brass nozzles..lol

You won't find them at HD or Lowes

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 12:07 AM
Nor will you find me or my crew's. I haven't been in a HD or Lowe's in atleast a year for anything.

This thread is making a nice run for the money.

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 04:10 PM
I haven't been in a HD or Lowe's in atleast a year for anything.
.

You don't have to when you buy your Greenskeepers & K Rains by the pallet.

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 05:05 PM
Buying by the pallet saves money if you can turn em over quick enough. Capital helps! Distributors don't care what brand it is when you buy bulk!
You don't see too many Greenskeepers down here either.
Are you implying that you can buy by the pallet in HD or Lowes? Hmmm:dizzy:

londonrain
10-25-2007, 05:14 PM
I do not and will not install a k-rain rotor because they fail at a high rate....end of story...
if you don't know this then you have not been in irrigation very long or you don't service what you install.
Discussed this thread with my partner and once again he said " if they have k-rain we will be making some money on the service call"

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 05:21 PM
I do not and will not install a k-rain rotor because they fail at a high rate....end of story...
if you don't know this then you have not been in irrigation very long or you don't service what you install.
Discussed this thread with my partner and once again he said " if they have k-rain we will be making some money on the service call"

Like I said, more than likely, I install what you install...as well as K-Rain. STI sells quite a bit of K-Rain in your parts as I understand it. Servicing contracts after install is great money...in there like swimwear! Been in it long enough to be open minded to change! I have ZERO interest or stake in what you use. I simply expressed what I use. Not trying to press anything on others. I realize everyone has their likes and dislikes. Perception is one thing. Facts are another. The fact in my situation is that I don't see a high failure. It's honeslty less than the other products I use. I think I'm repeating myself here. Either I'm getting old or people aren't reading what I'm writing here. :hammerhead:
Were you discussing this with your partner b/c you were questioning your menality that "they fail at a high rate" or b/c you had nothing else to discuss at work?

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 05:26 PM
I have quams you'll last here with that attitude. Keep digging tho.

londonrain
10-25-2007, 05:40 PM
Like I said, more than likely, I install what you install...as well as K-Rain. STI sells quite a bit of K-Rain in your parts as I understand it. Servicing contracts after install is great money...in there like swimwear! Been in it long enough to be open minded to change! I have ZERO interest or stake in what you use. I simply expressed what I use. Not trying to press anything on others. I realize everyone has their likes and dislikes. Perception is one thing. Facts are another. The fact in my situation is that I don't see a high failure. It's honeslty less than the other products I use. I think I'm repeating myself here. Either I'm getting old or people aren't reading what I'm writing here. :hammerhead:

STI does sell k-rains, you are right and the contractors that install k-rain give a 1 year warranty...why do you think I am replacing k-rains...most are doing work for builders and that means you better get down right cheap and that is what they are doing. K-rain rotors, greenskeepers and k-rain sprays...
I service over 1200 systems and 95% are systems I did not install, do I rarely ever get to go and work on a system I installed...

Example: a assisted living center we service 4 times a year, on the last visit we replace 7 k-rains because they either leaked, stopped rotating or they would not retract...why would I make this up.

londonrain
10-25-2007, 05:47 PM
Were you discussing this with your partner b/c you were questioning your menality that "they fail at a high rate" or b/c you had nothing else to discuss at work?
When you service as many systems as we do, you drive in your truck a lot..I guess you dont service enough systems to understand the simple fact that k-rains fail at a high rate....:hammerhead:

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 05:52 PM
I rarely ever get to go and work on a system I installed....

That's why Hank & I can take on so much new work...our's just don't need
that much, tho sometimes we've said, " have we been over to Norma's this
year?" & we go, just to make sure all is well. Ours is well, so's yours Steve.

londonrain
10-25-2007, 05:59 PM
That's why Hank & I can take on so much new work...our's just don't need
that much, tho sometimes we've said, " have we been over to Norma's this
year?" & we do, just to make sure all is well.
If you install with "quality" products, the laws of hydraulics are not defied and the system is designed with the correct layout then you should have very little maintenance at all.

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 06:29 PM
If you install with "quality" products, the laws of hydraulics are not defied and the system is designed with the correct layout then you should have very little maintenance at all.

Got my vote..if you can't do the above..."go sell shoes".:rolleyes:

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 07:33 PM
I have quams you'll last here with that attitude. Keep digging tho.


Please direct me to the attitude you've detected. Maybe a bit soft? Defensive?

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-25-2007, 07:34 PM
Please direct me to the attitude you've detected. Maybe a bit soft? Defensive?

I think he has split intraweb personalities.

true story

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 07:35 PM
If you install with "quality" products, the laws of hydraulics are not defied and the system is designed with the correct layout then you should have very little maintenance at all.

I couldn't agree with you more! Did I mentioned that I was a certified Landscape Irrigation Auditor?

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 07:36 PM
I think he has split intraweb personalities.

true story

Is that sortof like Intraweb-bipolar?

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-25-2007, 07:54 PM
Is that sortof like Intraweb-bipolar?


Complete truth.

londonrain
10-25-2007, 08:35 PM
I couldn't agree with you more! Did I mentioned that I was a certified Landscape Irrigation Auditor?Then you should know the importance of "quality equipment" ....and be able to identify broken equipment..whenever I see k-rain rotors I see broken equipment.....:rolleyes:

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-25-2007, 08:44 PM
Then you should know the importance of "quality equipment" ....and be able to identify broken equipment..whenever I see k-rain rotors I see broken equipment.....:rolleyes:



9/10 poster's on Lawnsite agree..

K-rains are junk

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 08:45 PM
Then you should know the importance of "quality equipment" ....and be able to identify broken equipment..whenever I see k-rain rotors I see broken equipment.....:rolleyes:

That's called Perception. I challenge you to buy a single rotor and test it out. Do a fair objective test. See for yourself. Whether you do or not, it's no skin off my back. I'm sure you NEVER pull old Rainbird or Hunter product out of the ground huh? :rolleyes:

londonrain
10-25-2007, 09:22 PM
That's called Perception. I challenge you to buy a single rotor and test it out. Do a fair objective test. See for yourself. Whether you do or not, it's no skin off my back. I'm sure you NEVER pull old Rainbird or Hunter product out of the ground huh? :rolleyes:
I pull all kinds of equipment out of the ground....how do you think I figured out k-rain rotors fail at a high rate. Just like I figured out T-birds failed at a high rate, RB 5000 failed at a high rate, 205 diaphragms failed at a high rate once Toro changed the material, Hunter solenoids failed because of poor tolerances, Rain Dial controllers lock up but if you de-energize they reset, a EV100/hr1 valve body will crack along with the bonnets....I could go on and on....fix enough of them and you start saying hey What.....so why would I install one?

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 10:01 PM
Maybe your install methods??? Who knows? I just know the K-Rain RPS rotors are working well for me. Have you even seen one? Doubt it. It's maybe a year old. I've been using them since they came out I haven't had any failures. My service guys pull out all kinds of product daily, 5004's, PGP's, etc. I've taken over in developments that had massive failures in both Rainbird and Hunter. I still use their product.

londonrain
10-25-2007, 10:36 PM
Maybe your install methods???

What does recognizing a failed product have to do with my install method.
I hardly ever have the pleasure of servicing any of my systems because I used quality equipment.... do you understand that if you service enough systems you know what is quality and what is not? I guess not because if you did you would realize that K-rains fail at a higher rate than any rotor on the market today and you would stay way from a k-rain because of this fact. ......90% of my work is service....I guess I just came up with this conspiracy against k-rain for what reason?


just know the K-Rain RPS rotors are working well for me. Have you even seen one? Doubt it. It's maybe a year old. Was just in STI last week checking out the cases of rotors they have stacked in the lobby...
I've been using them since they came out I haven't had any failures I would hope not but if they are anything like the other rotors it is just a matter of time....

It's maybe a year old
a year old,,,if you stay in this business you learn real fast be cautious of new products....

My service guys pull out all kinds of product daily, 5004's, PGP's, etcI am the service guy, I replace the products....
I've taken over in developments that had massive failures in both Rainbird and Hunter
Massive failures...come on....

CAPT Stream Rotar
10-25-2007, 10:46 PM
dude Londonrain JUST PWNT.....

sick..

melior quam pluvia
10-26-2007, 04:01 AM
do you understand that if you service enough systems you know what is quality and what is not?How could a company remain in business with poor product? You should know that a service or install company doesn't last doing sub-standard work.

I guess I just came up with this conspiracy against k-rain for what reason?

B/C your afraid of change? Maybe afraid I'm right? B/C your bored with nothing better to do than sit here and debate me on my choice's that I have not tried to press on you at all? A sales rep for whatever product you're using convinced you and you're just being a loyal user?

I would hope not but if they are anything like the other rotors it is just a matter of time....
DING DING DING DING.....What does he win Johnny. I was waiting for something like this.
My point made here! You haven't a clue about them. You're only speculating based on the past. If that were the case, you must have your own invincible rotor.

a year old,,,if you stay in this business you learn real fast be cautious of new products....You think they rolled them off the engineering table right into my hands. They've tested them in different markets before roll out. Someone has to try them to tell people like yourself. Not a single issue here with them yet.

I am the service guy, I replace the products....
So what products are you using then if you pull out a 5004, PGP, etc? Must be using that invincible rotor again.

Massive failures...come on
Tis true. EVERY single rotor in this 145 home development had to be replaced. I'm pretty sure it was due to the reclaimed water eating the seals. Still had to replace them all. It was still a massive failure. It's not something that would happen now b/c all manufacturers put inhibitors in their seals now. What's the point??? Everyone has had their issues in the past. How many Hunter ICC's have you seen fail in the last couple years? Does that mean you won't ever use a Pro C? Things change.

londonrain
10-26-2007, 09:57 AM
How could a company remain in business with poor product? You should know that a service or install company doesn't last doing sub-standard work. This statement just shows you do not have a clue about irrigation.....
I see poor products every day and poor workmanship.....
k-rain being one of the poorest products in the ground today....


B/C your afraid of change? Maybe afraid I'm right? B/C your bored with nothing better to do than sit here and debate me on my choice's that I have not tried to press on you at all? A sales rep for whatever product you're using convinced you and you're just being a loyal user?
No seems it is the other way around... every time a new K-rain rotor comes out it is the same song and dance "just like the PGP" and it always falls short
Even they put this on their own web site..." is the same mechanism used in the Hunter® PGP" but for some reason they cannot get it right...plus they leak and fail to retract......:hammerhead:


o what products are you using then if you pull out a 5004, PGP, etc? Must be using that invincible rotor again.

Its called the I-20 .....

You think they rolled them off the engineering table right into my hands. They've tested them in different markets before roll out. Someone has to try them to tell people like yourself. Not a single issue here with them yet. You are saying that this is the first time k-rain has field tested rotors in different markets in the company history, and their previous rotors had not been field tested that is why they failed at a high rate???? Why would I install a k-rain rotor when I know even a PGP will out perform a k-rain...so I can save a $1....when it would cost me $75-$95 in lost time going back and replacing just one. You do the math.....


Tis true. EVERY single rotor in this 145 home development had to be replaced. I'm pretty sure it was due to the reclaimed water eating the seals. Still had to replace them all. It was still a massive failure. It's not something that would happen now b/c all manufacturers put inhibitors in their seals now. What's the point??? Everyone has had their issues in the past. How many Hunter ICC's have you seen fail in the last couple years? Does that mean you won't ever use a Pro C? Things change

I hope you did not replace with k-rains because if you did then there really will be massive failures....

sencinia
10-27-2007, 03:54 PM
Stick to the basics, always works for me.

Mike Leary
10-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Stick to the basics, always works for me.

AND, the weekly award for trite comments goes to:rolleyes:

Wet_Boots
10-27-2007, 05:06 PM
It's maybe a year old. I've been using them since they came out You'd have to tape a twenty-dollar bill to each one before I'd install a just-on-the-market sprinkler head. I have way too much respect for the ability of manufacturers to not get it quite right. The math just doesn't work, for a buck or so a rotor. Twenty or thirty dollars on a thirty-five hundred dollar job?

Mike Leary
10-27-2007, 05:24 PM
You'd have to tape a twenty-dollar bill to each one before I'd install a just-on-the-market sprinkler head. I have way too much respect for the ability of manufacturers to not get it quite right. The math just doesn't work, for a buck or so a rotor. Twenty or thirty dollars on a thirty-five hundred dollar job?

Let's see..Hunter Type "R"..early T-Birds..been there, tried that..failure.:cry: