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Mike M
10-22-2007, 01:01 PM
I have a customer who has concrete steps around his pool area, but doesn't like path lights, and does not want fixtures taking away from the really great look we have on his tropical plants along the pool perimeter (yes it's far enough from the pool).

Has anyone ever tried using deck lights in gravel borders? It would be a nice, low profile, glare-shielded way to hit some low watts on the vertical face of the concrete steps (the gravel area is adjacent to the concrete area).

Thanks,

Mike

sprinkler guy
10-22-2007, 01:40 PM
I put some BK Drivestars in gravel around a driveway last year. We used a 3 foot piece of bend-a-board wrapped in a semi-circle, placed the light with a stake threaded in the bottom to help hold it, then backfilled with pea-gravel. I'm not sure if this is similar to your current challenge, but it worked out real well for me.

irrig8r
10-22-2007, 02:00 PM
I have a customer who has concrete steps around his pool area, but doesn't like path lights, and does not want fixtures taking away from the really great look we have on his tropical plants along the pool perimeter (yes it's far enough from the pool).

Has anyone ever tried using deck lights in gravel borders? It would be a nice, low profile, glare-shielded way to hit some low watts on the vertical face of the concrete steps (the gravel area is adjacent to the concrete area).

Thanks,

Mike

Photos would be helpful.

I've used a Vista produt in the past in this situation.

http://www.vistapro.com/Product.aspx?ProdID=196&CatID=1&typeID=2

I can't recommend it though, because despite accounting for drainage, the fixtures filled with water. In addition, when we went to re-lamp, the screws were frozen in place. Even an impact wrench didn't get the fixture open.

Vista replaced 7 fixtures under warranty, but it was still a hassle to have to reinstall only 3 years after the originals.

The next time I ran into a "no vertical pathlights allowed" situation I ended up pouring small concrete bases for brass Integraliters to sit in low groundcover next to a brick path. This was needed because there was a homeowner's basketball court adjacent. Stray balls were a problem.

I have to say that the brass Integraliter has been tested and certified as "basketball impact proof". I don't think another fixture can make the same claim.

http://www.vistapro.com/Product.aspx?ProdID=196&CatID=1&typeID=2

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-22-2007, 03:55 PM
Photos would be helpful.
The next time I ran into a "no vertical pathlights allowed" situation I ended up pouring small concrete bases for brass Integraliters to sit in low groundcover next to a brick path. This was needed because there was a homeowner's basketball court adjacent. Stray balls were a problem.

I have to say that the brass Integraliter has been tested and certified as "basketball impact proof". I don't think another fixture can make the same claim.

I was also going to recommend the NS INTEGRAliter in brass (GD-0402-BR) ordered with a 180 deg. or 270 deg. lens rather then the 360 deg. lens that comes standard. This would eliminate a view to the source but will still provide a nice low level wash of the ground and foliage.

As an aside, the Brass INTEGRAliter is also 'mooring proof' ! I witnessed a 26' sea ray tied off to three INTEGRAliters this summer... seems the 'captain' of the vessel thought they were dock cleats or something. The lights are fine, no damage at all.

Have a great day.

Mike M
10-22-2007, 04:04 PM
seems the 'captain' of the vessel thought they were dock cleats or something LOL

I like the look of this and the selective degrees sounds perfect.

Chris J
10-22-2007, 04:23 PM
Does the interior of this fixture have any type of reflector or chrome/white finish to "throw" the light out? If not, when the brass develops it's patina, is there a great loss of light output?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-22-2007, 04:39 PM
Does the interior of this fixture have any type of reflector or chrome/white finish to "throw" the light out? If not, when the brass develops it's patina, is there a great loss of light output?

The interior is of the Aluminum version is powdercoated white I know for sure... not sure about the Brass Version! ( I should know that.)

I would simply specify that the come white inside if you are concerned. I am always lowering the lamps to 10w on these because they are too bright up here in Dark Sky Land.

Have a great day.

irrig8r
10-22-2007, 05:16 PM
Yes, the ones I got were white inside.

Sorry for posting the Vista link twice above. I meant to post this one, that goes to the brass version of the Integraliter. BTW, it has a lifetime warranty.:

http://www.nightscaping.com/pdfs/brass_integra_gd0402br.pdf

JoeyD
10-22-2007, 06:23 PM
HK Lighting has some real nice brass walk over and drive over in ground lights.

Pro-Scapes
10-22-2007, 11:53 PM
SPJ makes one thats built well too... Im not a huge SPJ fan by any means after dealing with a failed downlight after 9 mo in service but thier in ground path seems rock solid.

Mike post a pic it will help alot. I like the idea of doing the seperate pour for the lights to be hidden off the path.. that gives me an excellent solution for a delima i been in :)

ChampionLS
10-23-2007, 03:35 AM
Have a look here!
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=2006832#post2006832

Southern Florida job just completed. I can't post the same pictures in two different threads

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-23-2007, 10:33 AM
Have a look here!
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=2006832#post2006832

Southern Florida job just completed. I can't post the same pictures in two different threads

No personal offense intended Evening Star.....but those lights are a disaster. To this designer they look just awful. They direct all of their light up into the sky and directly into the eye. They are glare bombs. I suppose if you are trying to attract aliens to your landing zone they might be effective....

Just horrible.

"See the effect, not the source."

Regards.

sprinkler guy
10-23-2007, 12:12 PM
Ditto what James says. I couldn't imagine anything more obtrusive to the aesthetic of the job than those uplights.

sprinkler guy
10-23-2007, 12:17 PM
I have a customer who has concrete steps around his pool area, but doesn't like path lights, and does not want fixtures taking away from the really great look we have on his tropical plants along the pool perimeter (yes it's far enough from the pool).

Has anyone ever tried using deck lights in gravel borders? It would be a nice, low profile, glare-shielded way to hit some low watts on the vertical face of the concrete steps (the gravel area is adjacent to the concrete area).

Thanks,

Mike

Mike,

Take a look at Nightscapings Turtle fixture also. Available brass or powder coat aluminum. Comes with a T-3 bi-pin, interior is powder coat white. Solid as a brick.

irrig8r
10-23-2007, 02:41 PM
Mike,

Take a look at Nightscapings Turtle fixture also. Available brass or powder coat aluminum. Comes with a T-3 bi-pin, interior is powder coat white. Solid as a brick.

Thanks for reminding me of that one Sean. I saw them being cast in brass at the factory. Solid indeed.
Though it's not obvious that they are available in brass from the spec sheet.

http://www.nightscaping.com/pdfs/turtle_hd0406.pdf

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-23-2007, 03:10 PM
Mike,

Take a look at Nightscapings Turtle fixture also. Available brass or powder coat aluminum. Comes with a T-3 bi-pin, interior is powder coat white. Solid as a brick.

Yep, a great fixture for this application. Get it in Brass. It will throw a LOT more light then the INTEGRAliter will.

Have a great day.

ChampionLS
10-24-2007, 02:36 AM
Yeah yeah yeah... I hear it all.... glare bombs... UFO's landing on customers patios...even Marvin Martian staring down at earth seeing patterns from a 4 watt accent light. Say what you want... but accent lighting is a form of a lighting effect. Who's writing the rules here?... Our's just happens to be intended for Interlocking Concrete Pavingstones and Brick. (What did you expect? a down light?) Look at Holiday Decor.. it's all accent and your seeing the light source. There are plenty of other manufacturers that use MR11/16, Par36 and HID. There's no comparison in your dispute. Some of you should visit Times Square NYC if you don't think recessed accent lighting is in.

We have a very deep niche in the hardscaping industry, where other similar lights have failed either by design or aesthetics. Now, with our new facility and growing distribution channel, we will offer two new wall lights for the 2008 season.

:usflag:

Mike M
10-24-2007, 07:43 AM
James & all;

I like the looks of a fixture like the integraliter for the job, the specs show a side view that has me wondering if you need to cake up some silicone (grease or hard) around the socket screws and wires.

Mike

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-24-2007, 08:40 AM
James & all;

I like the looks of a fixture like the integraliter for the job, the specs show a side view that has me wondering if you need to cake up some silicone (grease or hard) around the socket screws and wires.

Mike

No need for any sealant of any kind with the INTEGRAlitere Mike. I designed it as a dock fixture. It is CSA approved for its application. I have installed a hundred or so on docks and they get soaked regularly.... I have yet to open one up and find any moisture inside the fixture. I havent had any trouble with the SJOW wire wicking moisture into the body of the fixture along the strings either.

Have a great day.

NightScenes
10-24-2007, 09:04 AM
Yeah yeah yeah... I hear it all.... glare bombs... UFO's landing on customers patios...even Marvin Martian staring down at earth seeing patterns from a 4 watt accent light. Say what you want... but accent lighting is a form of a lighting effect. Who's writing the rules here?... Our's just happens to be intended for Interlocking Concrete Pavingstones and Brick. (What did you expect? a down light?) Look at Holiday Decor.. it's all accent and your seeing the light source. There are plenty of other manufacturers that use MR11/16, Par36 and HID. There's no comparison in your dispute. Some of you should visit Times Square NYC if you don't think recessed accent lighting is in.

We have a very deep niche in the hardscaping industry, where other similar lights have failed either by design or aesthetics. Now, with our new facility and growing distribution channel, we will offer two new wall lights for the 2008 season.

:usflag:

Just to put in something. I am installing some of those NS fixtures on a project right now and I think that they will work great.

I have installed some of the Evening Star paver lights on a project where the client insisted on having paver lights for her driveway. I placed about 36 of these lights at 10' intervals on each side of the driveway and I must say that it came out great. Between the driftwood color of the lens and the 4 watt light, it is not a glare issue at all. I did low volt it a little only giving it 10.9 volts. It outlines her driveway the way that she wanted and still goes very well in my lighting scheme.

Anyway, I just had to say something.

Mike M
10-24-2007, 11:32 AM
I have installed a hundred or so on docks and they get soaked regularly.... I have yet to open one up and find any moisture inside the fixture. I havent had any trouble with the SJOW wire wicking moisture into the body of the fixture along the strings either.

This is great info, thanks!

NightLightingFX
10-24-2007, 02:10 PM
Just to put in something. I am installing some of those NS fixtures on a project right now and I think that they will work great.

I have installed some of the Evening Star paver lights on a project where the client insisted on having paver lights for her driveway. I placed about 36 of these lights at 10' intervals on each side of the driveway and I must say that it came out great. Between the driftwood color of the lens and the 4 watt light, it is not a glare issue at all. I did low volt it a little only giving it 10.9 volts. It outlines her driveway the way that she wanted and still goes very well in my lighting scheme.

Anyway, I just had to say something.

Paul,
regarding the driveway you did with Evening Star. How did you install the paver lights. Did you put them in before the driveway was poured? or did you drill holes into the driveway? I have a custom home I've been working on. The homeowner has mentioned they would like something to mark the driveway. This might be an option. The driveway is already poured. I would like to know if this could be posible. Do you have any pictures of the job? Thanks
~Ned

NightScenes
10-24-2007, 02:23 PM
Ned, this is a paver driveway. I'm working on getting some photos.

NightLightingFX
10-24-2007, 02:38 PM
Evening Star or anyone else,
Would it be possible to install your paver lights in a stamped concrete driveway? How difficult is it to cut holes in concrete? how close to the edge of the concrete can I go if I was able to cut holes in the concrete. and would I be able to get wire to the cut hole if it is pretty close to the edge? Thanks
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-24-2007, 03:16 PM
Evening Star or anyone else,
Would it be possible to install your paver lights in a stamped concrete driveway? How difficult is it to cut holes in concrete? how close to the edge of the concrete can I go if I was able to cut holes in the concrete. and would I be able to get wire to the cut hole if it is pretty close to the edge? Thanks
~Ned

Ned

You might be able to core the driveway for round fixtures... depends on if it is re-inforced with re-bar or not. If it is reinforced I would not recommend trying it. If it is not then you could core drill it near the edge being very slow and careful and not using the drill in hammer mode as you dont want to crack the driveway so close to the edge.

Then you could install driveovers (very expensive fixtures) or possibly round 'paver lights'.

If it was me, I would probably stay away from it due to the risk of cracking the concrete.

Have a great day.

Pro-Scapes
10-24-2007, 03:33 PM
Evening Star or anyone else,
Would it be possible to install your paver lights in a stamped concrete driveway? How difficult is it to cut holes in concrete? how close to the edge of the concrete can I go if I was able to cut holes in the concrete. and would I be able to get wire to the cut hole if it is pretty close to the edge? Thanks
~Ned

James has excellent advice above. Sometimes its not always wise to listen to a dist or manufacture because its rare they have done it and you can bet they wont be right next to you if it shatters that driveway. You would be best off to let masons do this and bill the client thier charges in my opinion. If you do undertake this be good and sure your liability insurance covers the use of this equipment.

NightLightingFX
10-24-2007, 04:24 PM
Thanks guys,
You confirmed what I thought was the case
~Ned

NightLightingFX
01-04-2008, 01:22 AM
Just to put in something. I am installing some of those NS fixtures on a project right now and I think that they will work great.

I have installed some of the Evening Star paver lights on a project where the client insisted on having paver lights for her driveway. I placed about 36 of these lights at 10' intervals on each side of the driveway and I must say that it came out great. Between the driftwood color of the lens and the 4 watt light, it is not a glare issue at all. I did low volt it a little only giving it 10.9 volts. It outlines her driveway the way that she wanted and still goes very well in my lighting scheme.

Anyway, I just had to say something.

Hey Paul,
Have you got these pics yet. I would really love to see an example. I have a client who wants more lights around his driveway. Maybe this could work.
~Ned

ChampionLS
01-04-2008, 02:45 AM
Evening Star or anyone else,
Would it be possible to install your paver lights in a stamped concrete driveway? How difficult is it to cut holes in concrete? how close to the edge of the concrete can I go if I was able to cut holes in the concrete. and would I be able to get wire to the cut hole if it is pretty close to the edge? Thanks
~Ned

We designed the fixture to be fully recessed with no exposed edges- primarily for snow plowing. Our fixture installs from the bottom side up on most paving stones, and has a fixed height of 2-3/8" (60mm) or 2-3/4 (70mm) determined by a built in flange.

Since poured concrete can be any depth, the fixture would have to be modified (by cutting off the flange on the base) and inserted down through the top. The new depth can be set with fast setting cement placed into the cavity. Coring of the cavity is easy- and can be done close to the edges. The standard wire harness length is 24", and we have an optional 6' harness available.

We are working on a cast bronze version that can install just as easily into paving stones, and a version for wet cement. It will be at least a year from now until that is ready.

-Anthony

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-04-2008, 09:45 AM
Coring of the cavity is easy- and can be done close to the edges.
-Anthony

Anthony. You are suggesting that coring of a rectangular cavity is into set concrete of unknown depth and unknown construction (it might be steel re-inforced) is "easy".

Please tell us all how you do this so easily, while being very neat, keeping the hole square, not chipping the top surface near the outside of the hole, and not cracking the concrete pad to the edge of the drive. I would love to learn your technique.

Similarly, how easy is it to core a hole down and then horizontally out to the edge of the concrete driveway (all without damage to the concrete) to run your lead wire through, understanding that the wire must be protected from the concrete by some form of conduit.

Thanks.

Lite4
01-04-2008, 11:12 AM
James,
Anthony's lights are round. A whole lot different than your typical "rectangular" paver light.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-04-2008, 11:22 AM
Thank Tim. I have not taken a good look at the spec's of Anthony's pavers and wasn't aware that they are round. This could make the installation into set concrete somewhat easier, but not seemless. It is still an installation I would shy away from.

Lite4
01-04-2008, 11:25 AM
I am actually pretty impressed with the process he has come up with. If I ever need a deck/paver light on a project his is the one I would use.

NightScenes
01-04-2008, 03:10 PM
Here is part of the driveway and the home. It is not a very good picture of the drive but the elevations and such would not allow for a good angle.

Lite4
01-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Nice pics Paul, That house looks fantastic. Good job.

NightScenes
01-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Thanks Tim, this was a great project that opened a lot of doors.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-04-2008, 04:23 PM
Looks like a lovely project there Paul... Very interesting looking home. Enjoy.

pete scalia
01-04-2008, 09:51 PM
Now that is ...............................nice work.

NightLightingFX
01-05-2008, 01:36 AM
Hey Paul,
Thanks for sharing that with us. Looks good I think I will push those lights for a project I am working on.
~Ned

Lite4
01-05-2008, 12:20 PM
Anthony,
If you are monitoring this thread. How hard is it to install into existing concrete. Can these things be installed from the top, or do I have to dig a hole under the concrete and slide them in from the bottom after coring?

ChampionLS
01-06-2008, 04:45 AM
Anthony. You are suggesting that coring of a rectangular cavity is into set concrete of unknown depth and unknown construction (it might be steel re-inforced) is "easy".

Please tell us all how you do this so easily, while being very neat, keeping the hole square, not chipping the top surface near the outside of the hole, and not cracking the concrete pad to the edge of the drive. I would love to learn your technique.

Similarly, how easy is it to core a hole down and then horizontally out to the edge of the concrete driveway (all without damage to the concrete) to run your lead wire through, understanding that the wire must be protected from the concrete by some form of conduit.

Thanks.


James,

I'm not sure where the rectangular hole came about... I was referring to coring a common 2-1/2" (62mm) diameter hole (cavity) into the driveway or walkway, removing the core so you will have a nice sleeve to work with. You would then tunnel under the concrete with a fish stick or fish tape and pull the fixture wire out towards the side. I would then mix some quick setting cement.. pour it in and install the fixture. You would have to carefully press the fixture down until the lens is flush with the surface, and wait till the cement sets up. In the meantime, you could do your hookup and continue.

About the conduit- You could install a length of 1/2" flexible conduit under the cement and out towards the edge, however most cement is poured on aggregate and that would snag the conduit, making it harder to push it through. You wouldnt want to over excavate or undermine the driveway. We use the fast setting cement because that will fill any voids you create.

ChampionLS
01-06-2008, 05:00 AM
Anthony,
If you are monitoring this thread. How hard is it to install into existing concrete. Can these things be installed from the top, or do I have to dig a hole under the concrete and slide them in from the bottom after coring?

Paul,

That residence is the bomb! Beautiful Job!

Tim,

Yes, I'm monitoring. Up late working on some new projects for 08' :drinkup:
Anyway... I responded to James's post and I'll try to help answer your questions. Where do you intend to install the lights? - vehicular or pedestrian application? With some work, you can successfully install them into concrete. You will need a modified base (flange removed), Piece of flexible conduit, core drill/bit and template. The installation is the same as in my above post. We use a suction cup to lower the fixture into the cavity. If it needs to be lifted out, this works great. We add cement, until a flush elevation is achieved and let it set up. After everything is hooked up, paver joint sand, or polymeric sand can be applied to 'fill in' the space between the Lamp Module and the cavity's edge. It gives a final finished appearance similar to tile grout.

~Anthony

Lite4
01-06-2008, 11:59 AM
Cool, that is all I was wondering was if you could put them in from above after coring. I am looking at installing on the perimeter of a driveway. No big deal to fish wire to em. Did I understand you said that there is a gap around the light that needs to be filled after it is installed?

ChampionLS
01-06-2008, 02:12 PM
Yes, the gap is about 1/16th in diameter. (the clearance between the diameter of the core - 2-9/16 and the diameter of the Lamp Module 2-1/2) This space is where the Removal Tool fits in and removes/installs the light during replacement. You can fill this space in with fine sand, or colored sand to create an accent. The sand also helps seal out any contaminants. To replace the lamp, the sand is flushed away with water, or compressed air (works best). The compressed air kit (maintenance item) includes a can of compressed air, a 90 degree pick tool and brush to clean out that gap so the tool fits in. The kit lasts for about 60 replacements.

Below are some photos showing how to replace...or switch lamp colors in about 30 seconds:

Photo 1 Remove the sand trim ring with compressed air or water (air preferred)

Photo 2 Install the removal tool over the light. Press fit wedges it to the lamp.
A 1/4 turn counter clockwise unlocks the lamp from the locking ring. Turn the plunger to eject the lamp.

Photo 3 Install new/different color lamp by backing off on the plunger and pressing the lamp into the tool. Clean the cavity and lock ring area.

Photo 4 Close up of the locking ears, socket and NYK Anti Corrosive Compound.

Photo 5 The new lamp/color change before filling the gap with new sand. This can be omitted on decks/docks as it is not a requirement.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-06-2008, 02:22 PM
Very cool Anthony, almost makes me wish I had a use for paver lights here. Not a bad looking fixture either. If you want to send me a catalog of your products for my library, you never know, I might just need some someday.

Regards.

jhuanger629
01-06-2008, 03:58 PM
happy new year everyone,

i love the paver lighting accents for the long driveway shot.

just wanted to post a pic from an install of some solar led pavers as well as a close up of the actual unit just to offer an alternative.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/cactus.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/rsc-100_large.jpg

pete scalia
01-06-2008, 04:11 PM
happy new year everyone,

i love the paver lighting accents for the long driveway shot.

just wanted to post a pic from an install of some solar led pavers as well as a close up of the actual unit just to offer an alternative.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/cactus.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/rsc-100_large.jpg

Got any night pics? Let's see how much light ya got on er.

pete scalia
01-06-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm suspect of plastic lenses outside especially pointing straight up. What happens when the UV gets to it? Turn it yellow? Then how much light do you have?

jhuanger629
01-06-2008, 04:21 PM
hey pete, hope you had a great new years. The client hasn't finished touching up the edges, so he's going to be sending me night shots in a few days or so.

I'll be happy to post some pics of the units in various night settings as a reference.

I've attached some images of the lights during the early evening and at night.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/RSCdusk.jpg

night (various units in parallel)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/RSCnight2.jpg

night (dealer simply lined up a number of units around a property to gauge output. i think all photography makes lighting more prevalent than it is, but our units serve as accent/pathway lighting)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Huanger/RSCnight.jpg

jhuanger629
01-06-2008, 04:22 PM
surface is made of a thick layer of polycarbonite resin. As with all polycarbonite, there is a slight yellowing over the years, but output and aesthetics aren't effected at all.

i'll post a pic of the difference in terms of yellowing between a new unit and a unit that has been left outside over 2 years.

irrig8r
01-06-2008, 05:03 PM
I didn't find these on your website.

I have a client to whom I proposed a complicated system with 3-way switching two years ago where he just wanted to light some informal steps that traverse the side of his vineyard down a hill to the winemaking shed.

He wanted 3-way controls because sometimes he would go there before dark and work past dark and didn't want to have to remember to turn the lights on and off beforehand, or carry a flashlight becasue he might have armloads of stuff to carry back and forth.

Anyway, these could insert into the railroad ties that create the steps... and he did want the lowest profile fixture available... so I'm thinking I could run a new proposal by him if he hasn't done anything on it already.

PM me with cost info please.

ChampionLS
01-06-2008, 10:51 PM
Ours are made from GE (General Electric) Lexan Polycarbonate and are 100% fully UV stabilized. We offer a 2 year warranty on the module. Upon re-lamping, you discard it anyway so you'll always have a fresh new fixture.

Those solar lights are pretty nice. What's the diameter? You may be able to use our Field Install Kit and template to install your products easier.

jhuanger629
01-06-2008, 10:59 PM
pm sent gregg and an email as well.

Hi champion, thanks for the feedback. The diameter of the circular version is 3.1" with a height of 2.3".

The square version is 3.8" x 3.8" x 2.3"
The rectangular brick sized version is 7.6" x 3.8" x 2.3"

Perhaps we can offer your Kit to our buyers as well. Pm me some information and I'll revert back with my email address.