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View Full Version : Great Men think so much alike!


Eden Lights
10-23-2007, 12:26 AM
Pete:
"How do you feel about full 360 shields? Great for glare control also great as a debris collector?"

HPL:
"I especially like the cup of a shield they have that holds water and debris real well. After it stews in there for awhile it makes a real nice brown soup which crusts on the lens."

pete scalia
10-23-2007, 08:50 PM
Pete:
"How do you feel about full 360 shields? Great for glare control also great as a debris collector?"

HPL:
"I especially like the cup of a shield they have that holds water and debris real well. After it stews in there for awhile it makes a real nice brown soup which crusts on the lens."

Thanks for the compliment. I'm sure HPL would feel the same.

Eden Lights
10-23-2007, 09:04 PM
I just finished the design for this home and we are putting several fixtures on this tree at the entry way. It has a main viewing angle from the drive and you walk around the back of the tree on the way to the front door. What fixtures would you guys use? For me it's a BK Delta Star B Cap, HK ZX16 B Cap, Lumiere 203 Standard, and we have been playing with the new Vista 2220LS hoping it would be less expensive, but that doesn't look like thats going to be the case. The HK has the best drain holes and it even shields the lamp at the drain holes. Again, I am looking for ideas???????

pete scalia
10-23-2007, 09:06 PM
I just finished the design for this home and we are putting several fixtures on this tree at the entry way. It has a main viewing angle from the drive and you walk around the back of the tree on the way to the front door. What fixtures would you guys use? For me it's a BK Delta Star B Cap, HK ZX16 B Cap, Lumiere 203 Standard, and we have been playing with the new Vista 2203LS hoping it would be less expensive, but that doesn't look like thats going to be the case. The HK has the best drain holes and it even shields the lamp at the drain holes. Again, I am looking for ideas???????

Let me contact HPL and I'll get back to you on that.

Eden Lights
10-23-2007, 09:15 PM
HPL, Pete, Who ever has any ideas? I just have always wondered why a fully shrouded fixture can't be made less expensive?

pete scalia
10-23-2007, 09:46 PM
If you look closely at the bottom of the picture there is clearly an image of a bare female buttocks. I am not offended but the sensors may want to take a close look at it and do with it what they deem appropriate.
Thank you.

irrig8r
10-23-2007, 09:52 PM
My take on the above photo is that it is neither a Sycamore nor a London Plane.

Now, if in the future you should encounter either tree, you'll soon find it problematic as far as cable is concerned. In short, they eat it, and very quickly. They have fast healing bark, and wounds from staples, nails or screws get swallowed up in a matter of months.

A landscape designer and I came up with a solution, using copper pipe as conduit, and tying the pipe loosely to the trunk with several wraps of jute twine.

They'll have to be retied in a couple of years, but so what? That's easy and can be part of a re-lamping/ maintenance visit. It's in an Asian themed garden so there are things like bamboo fencing tied with jute too.

So, in a young tree, maybe copper pipe if the fixtures are copper too, and they'll age gracefully together.

We thought about using a piece of timber bamboo too, but drilling through the segments from one end to the other looked daunting, and the copper bends to the trunk angle.

irrig8r
10-23-2007, 09:57 PM
If you look closely at the bottom of the picture there is clearly an image of a bare female buttocks. I am not offended but the sensors may want to take a close look at it and do with it what they deem appropriate.
Thank you.

Now you're really sounding like HPL. Are you his evil twin, or is he yours? Or should we just call you Sybil? :confused:

pete scalia
10-23-2007, 09:57 PM
My take on the above photo is that it is neither a Sycamore nor a London Plane.

Now, if in the future you should encounter either tree, you'll soon find it problematic as far as cable is concerned. In short, they eat it, and very quickly. They have fast healing bark, and wounds from staples, nails or screws get swallowed up in a matter of months.

A landscape designer and I came up with a solution, using copper pipe as conduit, and tying the pipe loosely to the trunk with several wraps of jute twine.

They'll have to be retied in a couple of years, but so what? That's easy and can be part of a re-lamping/ maintenance visit. It's in an Asian themed garden so there are things like bamboo fencing tied with jute too.

So, in a young tree, maybe copper pipe if the fixtures are copper too, and they'll age gracefully together.

We thought about using a piece of timber bamboo too, but drilling through the segments from one end to the other looked daunting, and the copper bends to the trunk angle.

If not a sycamore than what is it?

A rigid copper pipe up the back of an immature tree? And that is unobtrusive? Excuse me but I disagree.

Landscape Illuminating
10-23-2007, 09:58 PM
I'm not sure about you guys, but I really don't think the OP actually meant he was going to mount lighting in the tree itself. I'm assuming by the fixtures he has listed that he intends to light the tree from the ground and not use tree lights. Oh, and no I don't have any suggestions as far as affordable alternatives to those fixtures. :)

-LI

irrig8r
10-23-2007, 10:00 PM
If not a sycamore than what is it?

A rigid copper pipe up the back of an immature tree? And that is unobtrusive? Excuse me but I disagree.

I wasn't suggesting it be used with this tree.

1. It's rare (around here anyway) to see either one planted as a multi. As far as I know they're only available as standards.

2. Look at the leaves. They don't appear palmate.

pete scalia
10-23-2007, 10:02 PM
I'm not sure about you guys, but I really don't think the OP actually meant he was going to mount lighting in the tree itself. I'm assuming by the fixtures he has listed that he intends to light the tree from the ground and not use tree lights. Oh, and no I don't have any suggestions as far as affordable alternatives to those fixtures. :)

-LI

if you are correct than boy am I glad it was HPL and not Pete who made the recommendations. He's looking kinda foolish if it turns out the lights are not going in the tree.

Lite4
10-23-2007, 10:45 PM
Boys,
1. This photo was taken in the spring of the year. (note the blooming azaleas next to the tree.)
2. The tree is a clump Canada Red Chokecherry -'Prunus Virginiana' (leaves bud out green persisting until late june when they begin to turn a burgandy red color throughout).
3. I use copper 1/2" copper pipe to fish all my wires up trees. I attatch with a zip tie fastened to a stainless steel screw.
4. I have used FX Vitelume in trees of similar size to down light from. They are copper MR-11 very light and won't weigh the branches down very much.

Eden Lights
10-23-2007, 11:17 PM
On the ground. I am pretty sure the tree is a deciduous magnolia, either a saucer or a star. The picture was taken last week, it has annuals planted around it.

Lite4
10-23-2007, 11:49 PM
Yeah, could be a saucer with those leaves and upright shape. Thats a tough one on the ground unless you use a well light with hex louvers. That is about the best I have been able to come up with in the past. Sometimes you just don't have an ideal condition with pedestrian traffic, and you have to make compromises to achieve the right effect and minimize the glare as much as possible maybe with some small plantings between the fixture and walk to screen slightly.

Mike M
10-24-2007, 06:18 AM
Eden, I'd need a wider shot for certain, but it looks like that tree needs to be moved, perhaps to the corner of the structure? My 2-cents.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-24-2007, 07:48 AM
See that dormer gable to the left of the tree? I would be getting my butt up there with an Mini Sylist or an Artisan or a Hunza WS-Cop and putting either an FRA or FMW inside and a honeycomb louver... Then 'moonlighting' down into that immature little "tree". (you guys sure have funny names for things... I would call that little thing a sapling! lol)

The effect would highlight the entire tree and if the foliage does not get too dense, would come out the other side onto the path and look just amazing.

Have a great day.

NightScenes
10-24-2007, 07:51 AM
James, that would require the use of a ladder and we know that Eddie has retired that piece of equipment. LOL

Pro-Scapes
10-24-2007, 11:43 AM
i would possibly attempt to hide a light by the downspout to the left up in the eaves ( get that ladder back out eddie) then possibly use 2 smaller ground mounted fixtures. James has an excellent approach to this I think The azaleas should help you with hiding an above ground fixtures depending on how full you want it lit. This is touger because you do not want to blind out the doorway behind it. Depending on the ambient light I doubt I would use the 35w unless it was a ginle light from above.

Maybe a single 20w from above and 2 lamps @ 10w to compliment it from the ground.

NiteTymeIlluminations
10-24-2007, 11:49 AM
why not just uplight the tree? not every light can be completely concealed every time. I mean you are goingto see the light for a split second no matter where you put it, right? It's a tree not the statue of liberty.

By what am I saying you, Eden, are the designer or all designers, who are you to be asking, you tell us..lol...

Eden Lights
10-24-2007, 11:50 AM
The downlighting idea would be excellent, but the angle required to get light on the tree is a little excessive and aimed at the main walking path. I will revisit it today when I pass by there.

NiteTymeIlluminations
10-24-2007, 11:53 AM
by me myself...I would use 2 or 3 kichler 15384azts...with 20 watt 60s or 38s depending on the size

Pro-Scapes
10-24-2007, 12:02 PM
The downlighting idea would be excellent, but the angle required to get light on the tree is a little excessive and aimed at the main walking path. I will revisit it today when I pass by there.

By excessive you mean it would be aimed to horizontal ?

Whats wrong with the light hitting the pathway and letting shadows fall where they may ? I think I am missing something.

Eden Lights
10-24-2007, 12:08 PM
By excessive you mean it would be aimed to horizontal ?

Whats wrong with the light hitting the pathway and letting shadows fall where they may ? I think I am missing something.

To horizontal, causing glare for cars in drive, people on the path, and etc.

NiteTymeIlluminations
10-24-2007, 12:14 PM
I had to downlight a statue out on a pier in Jamaica and it was probably close to 70 feet from anything...it was a concrete structured pier...I used a bk light that really long one wih a louver and a 50 spot to do it...I'll get a picture next week, turned out good...let me think of the fixture...hmmm...rainier, only because we use 120 volt down there and I wanted to use a lv bulb...but you could use a shasta inthe same situation...

here though, i'd uplight but thats me...I'm just a distributor...lol

NightScenes
10-24-2007, 12:21 PM
I was thinking of the Kichler 15484AZT long cowling up light. Glare would be a non issue with that fixture.

NiteTymeIlluminations
10-24-2007, 12:50 PM
if there are kids around watch our for that spear of a light

Eden Lights
10-24-2007, 01:04 PM
I was thinking of the Kichler 15484AZT long cowling up light. Glare would be a non issue with that fixture.

We were excited about the 484 when we heard about it, and it is a improvement when downlighting for aiming at high horizontal angles over the 384, but it has no improvement on the ground for 360 degree viewing angles since the shroud is still cut right down to the lens on one side. We sold 3 BK Delta Stars with the B cap for uplighting this tree. We have used 384's and the Vista 5270 with the grate in the past, but we have tried to replace them over time when we saw how much of a improvement a fully shrouded fixture looked. We asked some professionals to review our best work once and this was where we were told we needed improvement. (Glare control) Most all of the offenders were 384's and V5270's.

NiteTymeIlluminations
10-24-2007, 01:20 PM
that sounds good to me.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
10-24-2007, 02:20 PM
To horizontal, causing glare for cars in drive, people on the path, and etc.

Using a honeycomb glare louver inside the fixture, in front of the lamp will eliminate most of the glare issues caused by the aiming angle.

Nightscaping part number LR-0202 about $4.00 each

Have a great day.

Pro-Scapes
10-24-2007, 02:25 PM
Using a honeycomb glare louver inside the fixture, in front of the lamp will eliminate most of the glare issues caused by the aiming angle.

Nightscaping part number LR-0202 about $4.00 each

Have a great day.

Ditto what james said... I have a few tree lights at that angle with the hex louvers installed in front of the bulb. I would almost think you can get away with a 24 deg bulb (hard to tell from pic) and use a clip from RSL to hold the louver against the light. Trying to use a smaller fixture with hiding it behind the downspout will help as well. Possibly even a mini mr11 light in this application but i would think a white kichler light would blend well.

However you have already created your plan. I guess we will never know!

Eden Lights
10-24-2007, 05:34 PM
Guys, everybody is a little different and I know both of you do great work from your posts. With that being said the angle that would be required here is too excessive for me. We buy and keep two types(thickness) of hex cells on our trucks with clips and retainer rings also. I like the Hex against the glass because that is where the glare is coming from, we try to stay away from a horizontal angle that would allow seeing the lamp for sure. Sometimes you can cheat and get away with it, but for me it is too low and too much of a angle in the main viewing sidewalk on this job, but I am going to look at it. Thanks again.