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jimmyburg
10-23-2007, 02:00 PM
has anyone used this product from hunter for root zone watering system
http://www.hunterindustries.com/support/installation%5Fadjustment/sprays/rzwsinstruct.html

Kiril
10-23-2007, 03:37 PM
Rainbird also has something similar.

http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/sprays/rootwateringsystem.htm

Haven't used either. I can see a use for them when watering trees in lawns if using the same zone, however I wonder how susceptible they are to root intrusion.

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 03:46 PM
I have not used either..my concern is the same as Kiril's. The other concern,
as with other buried devices is, "how do you know it's working?" I suppose
you could mark a spot so you could check it with the Lincoln moisture probe.
Call me old fashion, I prefer a "four poster"of spray zones around trees, at
the drip line..you always know if it's working.:)

Keen
10-23-2007, 05:26 PM
I have used them and been happy with the results. It’s really pretty easy to tell if they are working...if you get the version with the high flow bubbler they fill pretty quickly to the top of the cylinder so you can see (and hear) that they are functioning (the lid/grate in installed at grade). I have not seen any issues with root intrusion so far…

Mike Leary
10-23-2007, 05:30 PM
I have used them and been happy with the results. Itís really pretty easy to tell if they are working...if you get the version with the high flow bubbler they fill pretty quickly to the top of the cylinder so you can see (and hear) that they are functioning (the lid/grate in installed at grade). I have not seen any issues with root intrusion so farÖ

Neat..looked like a cool idea, in theory, glad someone's put it into service.

Kiril
10-24-2007, 08:27 AM
Another thing I would be concerned about is water usage. Seems if it is on the same zone as turf, your potentially putting ALOT of water outside the effective root zone.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 08:43 AM
Another thing I would be concerned about is water usage. Seems if it is on the same zone as turf, your potentially putting ALOT of water outside the effective root zone.

Yeah I'm not real sold on those either. Here is a technique I've thought of but never tried. I'm assuming most tree watering is for establishment. Once established I feel the irrigation system will provide needed watering when established. What if you took 12" spaced netafim and before backfilling the ball circled the ball at different heights using stakes to hold it against the ball. Finish it off with two runs at the surface. Once established cut the netafim off at the source and replace with a bubbler or not run at all?
GOOD IDEA OR BAD IDEA?

Kiril
10-24-2007, 10:17 AM
Yeah I'm not real sold on those either. Here is a technique I've thought of but never tried. I'm assuming most tree watering is for establishment. Once established I feel the irrigation system will provide needed watering when established. What if you took 12" spaced netafim and before backfilling the ball circled the ball at different heights using stakes to hold it against the ball. Finish it off with two runs at the surface. Once established cut the netafim off at the source and replace with a bubbler or not run at all?
GOOD IDEA OR BAD IDEA?


Not too sure about that. Seems to me that might lead to the roots never leaving the root ball. Perhaps if you did a triangle from the surface down?

I can draw a picture if that helps.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 11:36 AM
Not too sure about that. Seems to me that might lead to the roots never leaving the root ball. Perhaps if you did a triangle from the surface down?

I can draw a picture if that helps.

I can visualize what you are saying. Don't know that I agree with roots not leaving ball. Root growth is genetic.

Kiril
10-24-2007, 12:17 PM
I can visualize what you are saying. Don't know that I agree with roots not leaving ball. Root growth is genetic.

Yes, but roots will only grow where there is water. You want to draw the roots away/down from the root ball/surface by using your water to lead them in the direction you want them to go. Course this is all moot when your talking trees in turf.

Keen
10-24-2007, 01:09 PM
Another thing I would be concerned about is water usage. Seems if it is on the same zone as turf, your potentially putting ALOT of water outside the effective root zone.

From my experience that is where the placement of the RWS and the bubbler/emitter chosen comes into play. There are various GRM and GPH bubblers/emitters available so you just need to make sure you are using the right one based on the zone run time if you are running on a turf zoneÖMost of the work I have done with these has been in island situations not on a turf areas but they would work in either situation.

Keen
10-24-2007, 01:16 PM
Yeah I'm not real sold on those either. Here is a technique I've thought of but never tried. I'm assuming most tree watering is for establishment. Once established I feel the irrigation system will provide needed watering when established. What if you took 12" spaced netafim and before backfilling the ball circled the ball at different heights using stakes to hold it against the ball. Finish it off with two runs at the surface. Once established cut the netafim off at the source and replace with a bubbler or not run at all?
GOOD IDEA OR BAD IDEA?

Seems like a lot more work than just putting in the RWS or RZWS...as mentioned before how would you know if it is functioning? Also, from what I understand one of the additional benefits of these systems is that they allow oxygenation of the soil and the roots, that would not happen in the system you describe. Finally, I want to encourage the roots to grow down and DEEP and that is why I like these systems they donít encourage roots to seek a surface source of water.

jimmyburg
10-24-2007, 01:49 PM
Seems like a lot more work than just putting in the RWS or RZWS...as mentioned before how would you know if it is functioning? Also, from what I understand one of the additional benefits of these systems is that they allow oxygenation of the soil and the roots, that would not happen in the system you describe. Finally, I want to encourage the roots to grow down and DEEP and that is why I like these systems they donít encourage roots to seek a surface source of water.

i dont understand your last statement of - I want to encourage the roots to grow down and DEEP and that is why I like these systems they donít encourage roots to seek a surface source of water.

The root zone canasters (which i will call them) come in 10'', 18'' and 36'' so how can you say they wont encourage deep growth. remember you can limit the watering or fill that you would need.

Keen
10-24-2007, 02:38 PM
i dont understand your last statement of - I want to encourage the roots to grow down and DEEP and that is why I like these systems they don’t encourage roots to seek a surface source of water.

The root zone canasters (which i will call them) come in 10'', 18'' and 36'' so how can you say they wont encourage deep growth. remember you can limit the watering or fill that you would need.

I guess I am missing what you are saying...I said "I want to encourage the roots to grow down and DEEP and that is why I like these systems they don’t encourage roots to seek a surface source of water" So I am saying the the root zone canasters do encourage deep root growth, vs a surface application of water. Perhaps we agree?
:confused:

jimmyburg
10-24-2007, 02:56 PM
I guess I am missing what you are saying...I said "I want to encourage the roots to grow down and DEEP and that is why I like these systems they donít encourage roots to seek a surface source of water" So I am saying the the root zone canasters do encourage deep root growth, vs a surface application of water. Perhaps we agree?
:confused:

Yes:waving:

hoskm01
10-25-2007, 12:39 PM
A customer of mine here had a large Ash tree that was not looking so good. He got a 1.5" piece of PVC about 3' down and watered through that, gave it some air down low. The thing came back like someone kicked it in the junk.

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 03:14 PM
Don't get too carried away with deep watering unless you know where the
hardpan is...could cause problems w/root rot. We have huge Phytophera
problems up here..many varieties.

jimmyburg
10-25-2007, 03:19 PM
Don't get too carried away with deep watering unless you know where the
hardpan is...could cause problems w/root rot. We have huge Phytophera
problems up here..many varieties.

what type of soil do you have? *trucewhiteflag*

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 03:26 PM
what type of soil do you have? *trucewhiteflag*

"Soil" is a kind word for us....most is glacial till, very rocky with a slippery
clay base. It's the clay that gives the trees fits..very shallow rooting around
here, which is why we have to be very carefull with overwatering, on the
other side, we mostly don't need supplimental watering 'cause the roots are
at the same grade as turf!:laugh: Lose the red flag, it bothers the bulls.

jimmyburg
10-25-2007, 03:32 PM
"Soil" is a kind word for us....most is glacial till, very rocky with a slippery
clay base. It's the clay that gives the trees fits..very shallow rooting around
here, which is why we have to be very carefull with overwatering, on the
other side, we mostly don't need supplimental watering 'cause the roots are
at the same grade as turf!:laugh: Lose the red flag, it bothers the bulls.

just wondering, did the sun come up on the right side of the block for you? you seen very cranky, is your desk job getting to you?

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 03:41 PM
I react to loud, obnoxious noises & bright colors that distract me.

jimmyburg
10-25-2007, 03:56 PM
Well noted

Mike Leary
10-25-2007, 04:21 PM
Well noted

Thank you. ::::crawls back under his jumbo valve box::::

BrandonV
12-13-2007, 07:14 PM
how about w/ b&b material? i'm thinking of trying these next week... of course thats price dependent. but we're working on a hill and just watering 12 or so big b&b's might be more fun to give these a whirl than the typical 12' prospray

Kiril
12-14-2007, 09:02 AM
how about w/ b&b material? i'm thinking of trying these next week... of course thats price dependent. but we're working on a hill and just watering 12 or so big b&b's might be more fun to give these a whirl than the typical 12' prospray

Is this for the job you posted pics too?

BrandonV
12-14-2007, 04:31 PM
was, but then i lookes at the price... $18 per unit, likely 2 -3 units per tree... $texas. 12" prospray is it

txgrassguy
12-15-2007, 01:04 PM
I make my own deep root watering system which is very cheap, easy to install and essentially bulletproof.
Utilizing a 1.5"-2" schedule 40 pipe, this pipe is installed at time of planting next to the crown of the tree. We very carefully wash, with low pressure water, a channel through the root ball and ease the pipe into this channel making sure the pipe exists just below the root ball.
A series of holes are already drilled in the pipe to allow the water to both exit below the root ball and through the sides.
At the top of the pipe a rectangle cutout is made the width of a FB on a swing joint.
After two weeks of deep watering the pipe is removed, the channel back filled with a sand/soil mixture and the FB and swing joint replaced.
Haven't lost a tree this way and haven't had issues with watering either.
Of course how we plant the trees is equally important too.
I use a powered auger bit on the mini-loader that is at least 3X the size of the root ball and drill the hole as deep as possible.
The existing soil is removed and a sharp digging bar is used to punch a series of holes both vertically and horizontally through the layers I just dug through.
The soil that was removed from the excavation is then amended and replaced under and around the root ball.
I deal with clay based sub straits that are as severe of a growing site as imaginable. The parent soil where I work is actually stripped from areas and used as a under layment for roads as it compacts and is stable once emplaced.
My tactics for tree planting works well in my climate, zone 9 to a northern zone 10 and with climate swinging from a high in the summer of 110*+ to well below freezing in the winter, a dedicated and permanent system like the one Hunter sells is a definite no-no in my climate.
That is why the pipe is removed from the channel after a maximum of two weeks.

FIMCO-MEISTER
12-15-2007, 01:22 PM
I make my own deep root watering system which is very cheap, easy to install and essentially bulletproof.
Utilizing a 1.5"-2" schedule 40 pipe, this pipe is installed at time of planting next to the crown of the tree. We very carefully wash, with low pressure water, a channel through the root ball and ease the pipe into this channel making sure the pipe exists just below the root ball.
A series of holes are already drilled in the pipe to allow the water to both exit below the root ball and through the sides.
At the top of the pipe a rectangle cutout is made the width of a FB on a swing joint.
After two weeks of deep watering the pipe is removed, the channel back filled with a sand/soil mixture and the FB and swing joint replaced.
Haven't lost a tree this way and haven't had issues with watering either.
Of course how we plant the trees is equally important too.
I use a powered auger bit on the mini-loader that is at least 3X the size of the root ball and drill the hole as deep as possible.
The existing soil is removed and a sharp digging bar is used to punch a series of holes both vertically and horizontally through the layers I just dug through.
The soil that was removed from the excavation is then amended and replaced under and around the root ball.
I deal with clay based sub straits that are as severe of a growing site as imaginable. The parent soil where I work is actually stripped from areas and used as a under layment for roads as it compacts and is stable once emplaced.
My tactics for tree planting works well in my climate, zone 9 to a northern zone 10 and with climate swinging from a high in the summer of 110*+ to well below freezing in the winter, a dedicated and permanent system like the one Hunter sells is a definite no-no in my climate.
That is why the pipe is removed from the channel after a maximum of two weeks.

great info, really thinking this through. The one thing I've always emphasized on tree watering is to make sure you are setup to abandon the original watering system. Saved in my smart things i learned on LawnSite folder. What is your nearest big city? Corpus Christi or are you further south than that?

txgrassguy
12-15-2007, 02:26 PM
Nearest big city is Austin - about forty miles directly East of my home and maintenance building.
For those that like to map quest, I live in Spicewood, home of the ubiquitous Willie Nelson among others, and the nearest town is Marble Falls, about fifteen miles away - going west.
About the watering system I mentioned, the schedule 40 pipes last about two to three years before turning brittle enough they wont stand up to the repeated handling.
Best part is they are made from scrap pieces of pipe so the whole thing doesn't cost me any money at all - really only about five minutes each to prepare.