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View Full Version : Favorite Big Block - Sound Off!


JimQ
10-23-2007, 05:18 PM
So lets hear it. What big block do you prefer?

38 hp Kohler Command
37 hp Kawasaki FX1000V
35 hp Briggs Vanguard

LawnBoy89
10-23-2007, 05:24 PM
What do they have those engines on I wouldn't be able to vote here because the biggest mower I've run had a 31 hp briggs vangaurd on it

tacoma200
10-23-2007, 08:24 PM
I don't know how so many are voting for the Kawasaki (except brand name preference). The Briggs is the only long term proven engine of the group. It is the only one that can be purchased on one of the top 5 or so ZTR manufacturers (as far as I know). Daihatsu/Briggs has proven it's self over the last several years. Thousands have been bought and used with very little problems.

I'm not saying its the best, I'm saying those voting probably don't own one and are just voting for the Kawasaki name because you can't get one on an Exmark, Scag, Toro, Grasshopper, Ferris, Gravely, or any other name brand ZTR as far as I know except maybe Cub. If I'm wrong I apologize. Just tell me about your demo's and what mower you were using them on (big Kohlers and Kawasaki) and how they held up long term (2,000-3,00)hrs. Fact is you probably can't because they are new to the market and have few takers as of this post.

If you go by sales Briggs would be the clear winner. It wouldn't surprise me if the big Kawasaki's turn out to be great engines and take a large market share but they haven't had time to prove themselves yet. And Kohler ( a great company) doesn't seem to be able to convince anyone to use their big engines on ZTR's yet. Maybe I'm missing something but most of the big Kohlers and Kawasaki's don't have a home to go to yet.

I won't be surprised if all this changes in the next year or two. Kawasaki has always been a reliability leader. I have no bias because I like all 3. Just tell me what your basing your long term dependability on. Like I said if I'm wrong and Exmark or some other company comes out with a whole new fleet of big Kohlers and Kawasaki's at the Expo let me know. As of now I'm just assuming kawasaki is your favorite brand and you have little experience running the 37 Kawasaki and 38 Kohler.

puppypaws
10-23-2007, 09:26 PM
So lets hear it. What big block do you prefer?

38 hp Kohler Command
37 hp Kawasaki FX1000V
35 hp Briggs Vanguard

Nobody has enough experience with the 38 hp Kohler to make a rational decision.

The 37 hp Kawasaki has been in mower applications longer and there has been no negative feedback, everything I have heard has been positive but then again they are not time proven.

The 35 hp Vanguard is a mule and everything I have heard about them has been positive, but even knowing the engine is built by Daihatsu the American people still associate it with the Briggs & Stratton of old.

WREBELMACHINE
10-23-2007, 10:32 PM
Were is the generac choice?

I have run the 37hp kawasaki nice! I have run the vanguard also nice! I have also run the generac also very nice! Power diffrence between the three pretty close!

WREBELMACHINE
10-23-2007, 10:33 PM
Were is the generac choice?

I have run the 37hp kawasaki nice! I have run the vanguard also nice! I have also run the generac also very nice! Power diffrence between the three pretty close!

Lordtimothy
10-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Really can't say from the reliability stand point but have run early versions of both the Kohler and the Kaw. While I love the power but had issues with the Kaw cutting out while going over bumps (yes I checked the wiring and it was not the seat switch). With the Kohler when making fast hard turns it would blow blue smoke like crazy for a few seconds. Never tried the Briggs.

Can't say I like one over the other. Both of the run good and with no shortage of power. Now if you want my thinking on looks the Kaw wins hands down.

Timo

Envy Lawn Service
10-23-2007, 11:13 PM
I agree with the other guys and voted briggs because it's been in the field long enough to be evaluated. I also prefer the brands in the following order...

1- Briggs
2- Kawasaki
3- Kohler


In the grand scheme of things though... I don't think it makes a flying flip which big-block you use on a new offering.

* Some MFG's have to try the newer unproven engines.
* They will sell regardless of big block offering

So just pick the one that "fits" best.

* Which suits the application / orientation best?
* Which company do you have the best relationship with?
* Which engine option will represent the best financial value?

Those are the things to look at.

JimQ
10-24-2007, 04:44 PM
Does anyone know of any OEM who uses the big Kohler in a vertical shaft application? It's got plenty of giddy-up but the thing is huge and adds several inches to the back end of the machine.

92013

92014

tacoma200
10-24-2007, 06:57 PM
Does anyone know of any OEM who uses the big Kohler in a vertical shaft application? It's got plenty of giddy-up but the thing is huge and adds several inches to the back end of the machine.

92013

92014

I am trying to be kind but this has got to be one of the biggest mismatches I've ever seen. I can't believe the engineers let this out of the factory like this. I'm hoping it was just a mechanic that thought it would be funny to see what a big 40 would look like on this particular ZTR. The engines physical size is just so out of proportion to the size of the ZTR's frame. There is absolutely no cage or protection for the muffler or air filter. Is this a Dixion (just guessing by the color)? I'm a very careful operator but I don't think the muffler or air cleaner would last the season. Just the back of the motor sticks out far enough. Maybe it's lighter than it looks but it looks like it would throw the weight balance off on the whole machine (without weights in front). I mean no offence and it may be a great ZTR and engine but they make an odd couple. These engine manufacturers and ZTR manufacturers are going to have to work close to get some of these big engines to work.

Well on the positive side I bet she doesn't bog down!

puppypaws
10-24-2007, 07:06 PM
I am trying to be kind but this has got to be one of the biggest mismatches I've ever seen. I can't believe the engineers let this out of the factory like this. I'm hoping it was just a mechanic that thought it would be funny to see what a big 40 would look like on this particular ZTR. The engines physical size is just so out of proportion to the size of the ZTR's frame. There is absolutely no cage or protection for the muffler or air filter. Is this a Dixion (just guessing by the color)? I'm a very careful operator but I don't think the muffler or air cleaner would last the season. Just the back of the motor sticks out far enough. Maybe it's lighter than it looks but it looks like it would throw the weight balance off on the whole machine (without weights in front). I mean no offence and it may be a great ZTR and engine but they make an odd couple. These engine manufacturers and ZTR manufacturers are going to have to work close to get some of these big engines to work.

Well on the positive side I bet she doesn't bog down!

That muffler setup was designed and installed by "FRED FLINTSTONE".

tacoma200
10-24-2007, 07:26 PM
That muffler setup was designed and installed by "FRED FLINTSTONE".

I was trying to be kind, do you think the factory did this? Unbelievable.:laugh:


Do you think an engine this large (physically) would fit a Super Z? Hustler has a pretty good size frame but it still may need some modifications.

I'm sure I'm wrong but it's almost as if Kohler put an engine into production before seeing if there was a market or application for it. They were showing off the big Kohlers at expo last year but I'm not seeing many takers. Nothing against Kohler. I have had a dozen or so and have yet to have one in the shop. They did jump the gun on the 30 hp models though, you noticed Exmark dropped that model like a rock. I haven't heard any complaints on the 28 Kawasaki, Exmark says they do their homework usually before releasing a new design. I still don't know of many company's picking up any of the new big blocks much.

TLS
10-24-2007, 07:39 PM
I voted Kawi.

On paper.....it has the torque advantage by 8.4 to 4.8 lb/ft!

Even at full 3600 rpm, it has more torque than the others at their peak!

I'd really like to see these engines fuel injected.

tacoma200
10-24-2007, 07:48 PM
I voted Kawi.

On paper.....it has the torque advantage by 8.4 to 4.8 lb/ft!

Even at full 3600 rpm, it has more torque than the others at their peak!

I'd really like to see these engines fuel injected.

Sounds like a heck of an engine. I love that torque!!!!

Is the Kawasaki in the poll vertical or horizontal?

TLS
10-24-2007, 07:51 PM
I still don't know of many company's picking up any of the new big blocks much.

Well, I think I know why.

The ZTR industry has been quite popular now for the past 12 seasons. Prior to that, they were in their infancy.

Anyway....for half of these years, horsepower was stagnant at 25.

I remember 20 and 22hp Kohlers on 60" ZTR's being thought of as powerful.

It wasn't until the 21cc pumps and 12+mph machines came that we NEEDED more power. This is all recent.

Just look at some of the posts here on LS. Most say your crazy to want such a big engine. But unless they've driven a big pumped fast ZTR, they just don't know.

I say bigger is better.

TLS
10-24-2007, 07:56 PM
Only thing that scares me a bit is the Kawi only holds 1.8q of oil!

The Kohler holds 2.9

The Vanguard 2.4

puppypaws
10-24-2007, 09:13 PM
I was trying to be kind, do you think the factory did this? Unbelievable.:laugh:


Do you think an engine this large (physically) would fit a Super Z? Hustler has a pretty good size frame but it still may need some modifications.

I'm sure I'm wrong but it's almost as if Kohler put an engine into production before seeing if there was a market or application for it. They were showing off the big Kohlers at expo last year but I'm not seeing many takers. Nothing against Kohler. I have had a dozen or so and have yet to have one in the shop. They did jump the gun on the 30 hp models though, you noticed Exmark dropped that model like a rock. I haven't heard any complaints on the 28 Kawasaki, Exmark says they do their homework usually before releasing a new design. I still don't know of many company's picking up any of the new big blocks much.

Hustler is trying to do their homework on the big blocks before they commit.
I know they are working on this and it is coming in the near future.

Envy Lawn Service
10-25-2007, 01:02 AM
I am trying to be kind but this has got to be one of the biggest mismatches I've ever seen. I can't believe the engineers let this out of the factory like this. I'm hoping it was just a mechanic that thought it would be funny to see what a big 40 would look like on this particular ZTR. The engines physical size is just so out of proportion to the size of the ZTR's frame. There is absolutely no cage or protection for the muffler or air filter. Is this a Dixion (just guessing by the color)? I'm a very careful operator but I don't think the muffler or air cleaner would last the season. Just the back of the motor sticks out far enough. Maybe it's lighter than it looks but it looks like it would throw the weight balance off on the whole machine (without weights in front). I mean no offence and it may be a great ZTR and engine but they make an odd couple. These engine manufacturers and ZTR manufacturers are going to have to work close to get some of these big engines to work.

Well on the positive side I bet she doesn't bog down!

I'm certain this is not a production unit. Just a big kohler mounted in an existing large frame dixion (husqvarna/yazoo frame)... and mounted for purposes of running it on one of those "leash tracks".

It has no engine guard because for one, the standard guard won't fit back, as it is designed to guard a 27hp or smaller engine.... and two, no guard is needed for the "leash track".

tacoma200
10-25-2007, 01:28 AM
I'm certain this is not a production unit. Just a big kohler mounted in an existing large frame dixion (husqvarna/yazoo frame)... and mounted for purposes of running it on one of those "leash tracks".

It has no engine guard because for one, the standard guard won't fit back, as it is designed to guard a 27hp or smaller engine.... and two, no guard is needed for the "leash track".

I was hoping that was the case and not a decision by Dixon. I do see the physical size of this particular engine creating a few problems for the ZTR manufacturers if they wanted to use it. Kawasaki is calling it's big block "compact" which seems to be what is needed for this type applications.

Envy Lawn Service
10-25-2007, 01:59 AM
Yeah, JimQ would be the one to confirm that. But my guess is that I'm right.

As for the engines, yes of course I would prefer the Kawi over the Kohler.

tacoma200
10-25-2007, 02:13 AM
It's no problem seeing that Kawasaki is the favorite engine among LCO's. And probably for a good reason, dependability and they have built up the name with a quality product. Briggs which mass marketed (and still does) engines for the general public at a low cost may never get over the reputation that that brings even though there are several classes of engines as you know and many built by reputable company's such as Daihatsu. I believe Daihatsu also builds many of the diesels used by top company's such as Exmark, Scag, Toro, etc. But once you get branded as an economy engine maker it's hard if not impossible to get that out of the consumers head. But there is no doubt in my mind Briggs commercial engines, especially the 31 and 35 have proven themselves or Scag and Exmark would have dropped them long ago. I myself would love to have a slightly larger version of the 29 efi Kawasaki makes. But when I tested it side by side against the 35 Briggs the power difference was obvious to all of us at the demo. The 35 was just a beast.

Envy Lawn Service
10-25-2007, 02:27 AM
Oh yes... for sure... and me personally, I still prefer Briggs commercial engines and will choose that option every time if it is an option. I'll take them over Kohler and Kawi.

I agree with the other guys and voted briggs because it's been in the field long enough to be evaluated. I also prefer the brands in the following order...

1- Briggs
2- Kawasaki
3- Kohler


In the grand scheme of things though... I don't think it makes a flying flip which big-block you use on a new offering.

* Some MFG's have to try the newer unproven engines.
* They will sell regardless of big block offering

So just pick the one that "fits" best.

* Which suits the application / orientation best?
* Which company do you have the best relationship with?
* Which engine option will represent the best financial value?

Those are the things to look at.

Looks to me like the Kohler is not the logical choice here.
Not unless they want to design a new mower around it anyways.

jtkplc
10-25-2007, 08:25 AM
The only big block I've used is the 31hp Vanguard. It's a beast for power, very smooth. I love it.

JimQ
10-25-2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah, JimQ would be the one to confirm that. But my guess is that I'm right.

As for the engines, yes of course I would prefer the Kawi over the Kohler.

Thanks Envy, you got it. It's just a shop toy. She's got 21cc pumps and 15 cubic inch wheel motors. Tops out at 22mph! It's fun to watch people drive it for the first time. You should see the ear to ear grins!

Q

TLS
10-25-2007, 01:04 PM
Sweet Lord!

cybervision
10-25-2007, 01:24 PM
It looks like Briggs makes the Big Block Vanguard Engine in the following sizes:

25, 27, 29, 31, 33, 35 HP Horizontal ShaOnly.

I don't know how you can differentiate between the smaller Cu. In. Models.

TLS
10-25-2007, 01:31 PM
Vertical shaft configurations are 30 - 32hp (895cc) and then the 34 - 36 (993cc).

tacoma200
10-25-2007, 05:54 PM
It looks like Briggs makes the Big Block Vanguard Engine in the following sizes:

25, 27, 29, 31, 33, 35 HP Horizontal ShaOnly.

I don't know how you can differentiate between the smaller Cu. In. Models.

I don't think anything below the 31 is considered a big block.....
Briggs designs and Daihatsu builds the 31-35 hp big block Briggs....
I've been wrong before but I've never heard of a smaller engine being referred to as a big block. These are 895-1000(approximately) cc engines.
If I'm wrong please correct me.
Not sure about the vertical sizes but TLS seems to have those figures.

tacoma200
10-25-2007, 05:58 PM
Thanks Envy, you got it. It's just a shop toy. She's got 21cc pumps and 15 cubic inch wheel motors. Tops out at 22mph! It's fun to watch people drive it for the first time. You should see the ear to ear grins!

Q

You need a wheelie bar!

cybervision
10-25-2007, 06:02 PM
I don't think anything below the 31 is considered a big block.....
Briggs designs and Daihatsu builds the 31-35 hp big block Briggs....
I've been wrong before but I've never heard of a smaller engine being referred to as a big block. These are 895-1000(approximately) cc engines.
If I'm wrong please correct me.
Not sure about the vertical sizes but TLS seems to have those figures.

Check this out on Briggs site:

http://www.commercialpower.com/display/router.asp?DocID=80500

http://www.commercialpower.com/display/router.asp?DocID=76230

TLS
10-25-2007, 06:03 PM
You need a wheelie bar!

Thats what that muffler is for!

tacoma200
10-25-2007, 06:12 PM
Check this out on Briggs site:

http://www.commercialpower.com/display/router.asp?DocID=80500

http://www.commercialpower.com/display/router.asp?DocID=76230

Well your right, I have to say I'm amazed the 25 is showing 895 cc just as the 31. I was unaware they were using the big block design for smaller hp engines.

JimQ
10-25-2007, 06:14 PM
Thats what that muffler is for!

:laugh: HA! No kidding! :laugh:

I knew they made it that big for some reason!

cybervision
10-25-2007, 08:14 PM
I also think that the Vanguard Engine was designed by Generac and sold off to B & S. The engine may be the similar to Generac. I found this out when I was searching for my generator.

I will find this info later and post it.

tacoma200
10-25-2007, 09:48 PM
I also think that the Vanguard Engine was designed by Generac and sold off to B & S. The engine may be the similar to Generac. I found this out when I was searching for my generator.

I will find this info later and post it.

I've seen the news releases and the news stories on the joint venture between Briggs and Daihatsu. Briggs claims it designed the engine and that Daihatsu is the builder. I have searched all over the net and this appears to be true and documented.

puppypaws
10-25-2007, 09:51 PM
I've seen the news releases and the news stories on the joint venture between Briggs and Daihatsu. Briggs claims it designed the engine and that Daihatsu is the builder. I have searched all over the net and this appears to be true and documented.

The Brigg's factory told me they designed and blue printed the Vanguard and Daihatsu built the engine in Japan.

TLS
10-26-2007, 12:05 AM
Generac has no ties to Briggs.

cybervision
10-26-2007, 07:50 AM
Read the last page of the History of Generac in their Brochure.

1980's: Generac develops the Vanguard engine.


1998: Generac sells its consumer devision which was later sold to B & S.


So now that B & S owns it they can says the designed it.


http://www.generac.com/PublicPDFs/0170580SBY.pdf

puppypaws
10-26-2007, 08:42 AM
Read the last page of the History of Generac in their Brochure.

1980's: Generac develops the Vanguard engine.


1998: Generac sells its consumer devision which was later sold to B & S.


So now that B & S owns it they can says the designed it.


http://www.generac.com/PublicPDFs/0170580SBY.pdf


Thanks for the education!

I wonder if the people at B/S even know their company did not design the Vanguard, or they just flat out lie.

I questioned the B/S people in depth about the Vanguard engine and they were either clueless or told me something entirely untrue. I will make them aware of who designed the Vanguard before this day ends. I will also make it known there people should not be giving out information about things they can't be positive on the subject matter.

cybervision
10-26-2007, 09:35 AM
It's only a lie if you choose to look at it that way. When a company purchases another company they own the company and all it's history. That history becomes theirs. I personally think it's still a lie because they put the engine into the Briggs line-up and still have the Generac Portable line-up.

B & S has a very long history of BS. They bought or merged several companies over the past 99 years. The following link is to "The History Of Briggs & Stratton".

http://www4.briggsandstratton.com/miscPDFs/MS8751.pdf

Read the section about the Vanguard engine carefully. It states Briggs and Stratton launched the Vanguard Engine.


The 2 generac sites listed below

Briggs owned Generators:

http://www.generac-portables.com/

Generac owned generators:

http://www.generac-portables.com/




Lawnsite site is great there is so much knowledge to be gained here. I love this site.

Razorblades
10-26-2007, 09:55 AM
Thanks for the education!

I wonder if the people at B/S even know their company did not design the Vanguard, or they just flat out lie.

I questioned the B/S people in depth about the Vanguard engine and they were either clueless or told me something entirely untrue. I will make them aware of who designed the Vanguard before this day ends. I will also make it known there people should not be giving out information about things they can't be positive on the subject matter.

I wonder if maybe the truth lies somewhere in between. Maybe the Vanguard engine that Generac developed in the 80's is one of the smaller Briggs Vanguard engines i.e. 14, 16,18 or 21 hp. I would bet that there are at least 3 different block sizes and designs in the 14 to 35 HP Vanguard lineup. Maybe the only one that B & S designed in house is the newest Vanguard engine the "Big Block" series. That's alot of maybes but that could offer Some explanation for the claims on both companies websites.

cybervision
10-26-2007, 10:21 AM
I wonder if maybe the truth lies somewhere in between. Maybe the Vanguard engine that Generac developed in the 80's is one of the smaller Briggs Vanguard engines i.e. 14, 16,18 or 21 hp. I would bet that there are at least 3 different block sizes and designs in the 14 to 35 HP Vanguard lineup. Maybe the only one that B & S designed in house is the newest Vanguard engine the "Big Block" series. That's alot of maybes but that could offer Some explanation for the claims on both companies websites.

It was probably designed by Generac. The Generac and Vanguard Big blocks are both 992/993CC engines. Generac Boast that the larger size gives their engines the reserve capacity. Briggs may have seen a golden opportunity in the Generac engine to get them back into competition with the better Japanese manufacturers at the time. Honda and Kawi were gaining ground. US engines were losing sales. It also gave them a whole line of portable equipment.

TLS
10-26-2007, 10:26 AM
1980's: Generac develops the Vanguard engine.


1998: Generac sells its consumer devision which was later sold to B & S.


So now that B & S owns it they can says the designed it.




The 1980's Vanguards they speak of are in no way related to todays Big Block Vanguards.

I had a 14hp Vanguard on my first SCAG, and SCAG used the 16hp Vanguard Twin for several years when they introduced their 52" deck. These are the Generac developed ones they speak of. Very good engines BTW. Especially back then. They were very quiet and powerful.

cybervision
10-26-2007, 11:41 AM
If you read the Briggs literature carefully it states the Vanguard line was Launched in the 1980's. This was the same Vanguard line that they did not own until 1998. Hopefully someday we will get the details for those of us that are curious.

Maybe the larger engine did not come out until afterward but the designs would have been underway. I am sure some of the enginners went with the new company and some stayed with Generac.

TLS
10-26-2007, 11:42 AM
I guess I just don't care really. No offense.

The Vanguard Big Blocks are great engines.

The Generac's are not so great engines.

cybervision
10-26-2007, 12:18 PM
I guess I just don't care really. No offense.

The Vanguard Big Blocks are great engines.

The Generac's are not so great engines.


I actually was hoping they were similar engines because I have a 30Hp/ 16,000 watt Generac automatic generator back-up attached to my house. I think I should of chosen a Brigg's over Generac.

tacoma200
10-26-2007, 02:37 PM
I'm just going by news articles, this quote from January 2003 so that would have been after some of the previous engines with the Vanguard name:

The Vanguard 31 hp engine, which the company said complies with CARB and EPA emissions standards, is scheduled to go into production in the second quarter of 2003. It is built at Daihatsu Briggs & Stratton, the joint venture between Briggs and Stratton and Japan's Daihatsu Corp.

tacoma200
10-26-2007, 02:39 PM
Here's an article that suggest that Briggs and Daihatsu's relationship started much earlier but is very informative:

Not Lost In Translation

Michael Roth

Jan 20, 2004 12:00 PM

Briggs & Stratton, a Milwaukee-based manufacturer of engines works hard to maintain a reputation for producing world-class products. With some products, its own production team can provide all the expertise it requires. But in other areas, it recognizes it is best to partner with other organizations, and the company spared no expense to find the best manufacturing partners in the world.
As Briggs & Stratton's vice president of corporate marketing Bill Reitman explains, back in the 1980s the Briggs & Stratton leadership realized it was a very good, high-volume, high-value producer, but that it needed a partner to help it reach a higher level of professional expertise in the heavy-duty, lower-volume, higher performance end of the engine spectrum.

It found such a partnership with Japanese manufacturer "Daihatsu, a member of the Toyota group". The relationship, which began in the late 1980s and has since produced an impressive portfolio of engine products, is really coming into its own now as Briggs & Stratton prepares to introduce a wide variety of new products. Daihatsu had great manufacturing expertise, while Briggs & Stratton excelled in engine design and distribution, and the synergy between the companies further added to their relationship.

The first product was the V-twin engine with Daihatsu, which became a Daihatsu and Briggs & Stratton joint venture. Briggs & Stratton also developed a strong relationship with Mitsubishi. In addition to manufacturing synergies, the companies developed parts-sourcing relationships and Briggs & Stratton manufactured parts for their Japanese partners as well as sourcing parts.

“Our Japanese partners have an absolute passion for attention to detail when it comes to quality, and testing for perfection,” says Reitman. “Any worker online can stop production if they see anything that is less than perfect. Our Briggs & Stratton plants are high volume, but we didn't have a commercial-focused engine plant. As the quality of the engine ratchets up, so must the attention to quality control and the sophistication of the manufacturing process, which requires tighter tolerances and more rigorous testing procedures under more stringent conditions, which our Japanese partners have developed on extremely high levels. It's a great relationship because we have learned and benefited from their manufacturing capability and we have been able to provide some assistance to them as we source parts anywhere on the globe.”

Known for years as a specialist in the lawn-and-garden engine segment, Briggs & Stratton is taking a big step into the construction end with its new Big Block series of air-cooled and liquid-cooled engines. These V-twin engines, available in 25, 27, 29, 31, 33 and 35 horsepower air-cooled and liquid-cooled, are the latest designs resulting from the Daihatsu Briggs & Stratton joint venture, combining Briggs & Stratton commercial power experience in aluminum block engine design with Daihatsu Motor Co.'s commercial design and manufacturing expertise. Manufactured at DBS' Kagami, Japan, facility, the engines are a major step forward into the commercial construction market for Briggs & Stratton.

“As the market becomes more competitive, you have to be able to offer the whole line-up”, says Phil Cappitelli, Briggs & Stratton's vice president of the Vanguard line. “We were strong in the 14 to 23 horsepower categories, so to add to our product offering, we decided to go up in horsepower.”

The Big Block series features aluminum block air- and liquid-cooled V-twin engines. “They are less expensive than cast-iron engines, which may be more durable, but you have to look at the equipment they power,” says Cappitelli. “By the time the engine wears out, the equipment is tired and worn. So the cast-iron may be more than the equipment needs. Aluminum can still last the lifetime of the equipment and cost 20 to 50 percent less than cast iron.”

Cappitelli says for commercial-cutting or any debris-laden application, the air cleaner on the big block engines is commercial grade. “Along with the new air cleaner, we have a steel rotating screen, which does a better job of chopping up debris that comes into the air intake,” he says. “The molded blower housing keeps air from leaking in, with molded lips over the edge, which also keeps out 80 percent of the debris that would filter in between the blower and the housing. We developed this in response to customer requests. It enables the heat to be distributed better, allowing the engine to run cooler and longer. We call the panel, the air cleaner and the blower-housing design an advanced debris-management system.”

The Big Block engines also feature:

V-twin/overhead valve technology, which can minimize wear and tear on components and equipment;
innovative intake and exhaust system, to provide a quieter engine;
cast-iron cylinder sleeves, which increases durability and improves oil control;
steel-backed aluminum bearings, to increase load capacity and reduce engine noise;
5-inch centrifugal, multi-stage industrial air cleaner, to provide maximum engine protection.

tacoma200
10-26-2007, 02:44 PM
It's apparent that Briggs and Stratton has their hands in all kinds of ventures.

cybervision
10-26-2007, 08:36 PM
I guess I just don't care really. No offense.

The Vanguard Big Blocks are great engines.

The Generac's are not so great engines.

TLS,

What negatives do you have or know of on Big Generacs?

I read somewhere that the starters were a problem so I picked up a spare. I spoke to a local Dixie Chopper Dealer a few months ago and he said the engines have been pretty good. Any feedback you have would be great.

Thanks

puppypaws
10-26-2007, 09:03 PM
It's apparent that Briggs and Stratton has their hands in all kinds of ventures.

The way these companies are this day and time with all the mergers that go on I can't swear General Motors doesn't manufacture Fords.

I get the feeling sometimes they want to keep you guessing who builds what.

I swear I did not finish typing this and look what shows up in this forum.

"Ariens makes deal to buy out Auburn Industries"

WREBELMACHINE
10-26-2007, 11:22 PM
I would not say the generacs are bad engines. They are very popular around this area and most everyone that I talk to asks for them.

TLS
10-26-2007, 11:43 PM
TLS,

What negatives do you have or know of on Big Generacs?

Any feedback you have would be great.



Not from personal experience, just what I've heard and read....

Extreme oil usage (up to 2oz/hr!), throwing rods with less than 50 hrs, carb problems caused by mower bouncing, coil problems, and unless you have a DC dealer, your probably out of luck finding a authorized Generac dealer.

Razorblades
10-27-2007, 08:51 AM
Not from personal experience, just what I've heard and read....

Extreme oil usage (up to 2oz/hr!), throwing rods with less than 50 hrs, carb problems caused by mower bouncing, coil problems, and unless you have a DC dealer, your probably out of luck finding a authorized Generac dealer.

Most of the Generac engine problems were with the 30 HP version engine that was produced before the 33 HP versions, base on all of the threads on the dif. forums that I read. My mower has the 32 (33) Generac on it,it has about 116 hrs. It has used about 3 oz. in 31 hrs that i've put on it, which I would think was an acceptable amount in about anyones book. No carb, coil problems or broken rods yet. Fuel usage has been about 1.6 gph so far. I have to agree with TLS about ther being a limited number of Authorized Generac dealers around. That's probably the biggest negative about the Generac's.

JimQ
03-05-2008, 01:05 PM
Are any opinions changing? The big Briggs sure seems to be doing well. It looks like for 2008, more OEM's have chosen it over the big Kawi.

Q

puppypaws
03-05-2008, 01:22 PM
Are any opinions changing? The big Briggs sure seems to be doing well. It looks like for 2008, more OEM's have chosen it over the big Kawi.

Q

Interesting news, glad to see you moved it back up in the forum.....now lets see what people have to say about your comment.

Green King
03-05-2008, 10:06 PM
Around here Generac outnumbers all others easily 10 to 1! Mostly Dixie Choppers and Encore mowers in the area! However I was at a lawn & garden show recently and noticed on display more B&S and Kaw than I have sen in the past! Most of the kohler engines I saw were the 30hp or the EFI.

bigsnowdog
08-10-2008, 11:23 PM
How do the 37 hp Kaw and the biggest vertical shaft Briggs compare with respect to operating noise level and fuel consumption?