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londonrain
10-24-2007, 07:16 PM
We will be installing two master valves on a system we maintain.
My plan is reworking from the back of the 1" meters to the backflow preventers and from the backflows to the 1 1/2" brass master valves all in 1" soft k copper.
Anyone had any experience with Rain Bird 1-1/2" brass valves?

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 07:32 PM
I worked with them years ago..damn good valve, had a external bleed which
was cool for flushing, but no good for manual firing...I'd think RB would have
the solenoid re-configured to attain internal bleed. I'd pull the bonnets & look for pitting at the seat, in which case, the valve is worth scrap metal.
Can diaphrams still be obtained? Weather Matic 8000 good retro.:)

Keen
10-24-2007, 07:33 PM
I have used the GB and EFB-CP models quite a few times and recently I have installed the 2" EFB-CP-R at a reclaimed water site. Never any problems, they look like they could hold up to a direct nuclear hit, my guess is that they will outlast the rest of the system.

If $ was no object I would use them all the time…

londonrain
10-24-2007, 07:39 PM
Mike and Keen, thanks for the input on the valves....I am looking for a valve that will withstand the day in and day out of opening and closing. ..I am open for suggestions on a real work horse of a valve to be used as a master valve.....
My thinking is that the brass body would last longer than a plastic body....

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 07:40 PM
Anyone know if RB makes their own brass valves?

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 07:46 PM
Mike and Keen, thanks for the input on the valves....I am looking for a valve that will withstand the day in and day out of opening and closing. ..I am open for suggestions on a real work horse of a valve to be used as a master valve.....
My thinking is that the brass body would last longer than a plastic body....

You're thinking is correct Steve, on a large system that master valve works
& works. Weather Matic 8000 series have been in my large mstr. valve
systems for twenty years..problem zero. Superior makes a cool one too &
Kiril was telling me of another company too, maybe he'll pop in. Having said
all that , the Rain Bird is not a "#2" valve in any way.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2007, 07:51 PM
My only gripe with the Rainbird brass valves is their changing the diaphragm (and bonnet casting) partway into their production. Replacements were different, depending on mfg date. I'd also wonder about the solenoid, if the valve uses the solenoid the DV's use (they used to get their solenoids from ITT)

Weathermatic 8000 valves, with the S24B solenoid might be my first choice, but I don't know if W*M solenoid woes have the possibility of reaching this top-end design.

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 08:04 PM
My only gripe with the Rainbird brass valves is their changing the diaphragm (and bonnet casting) partway into their production. Replacements were different, depending on mfg date. I'd also wonder about the solenoid, if the valve uses the solenoid the DV's use (they used to get their solenoids from ITT)

Weathermatic 8000 valves, with the S24B solenoid might be my first choice, but I don't know if W*M solenoid woes have the possibility of reaching this top-end design.

This could be London's problem..that he's got a RB w/parts available not.
The WM S24B solenoid has been what made WM famous..until the bean
counters got a hold of the company a few years ago & then we all crossed
our fingers. Have had O problems w/ 21000 or 8000 series solenoids.

londonrain
10-24-2007, 08:09 PM
My only gripe with the Rainbird brass valves is their changing the diaphragm (and bonnet casting) partway into their production. Replacements were different, depending on mfg date. I'd also wonder about the solenoid, if the valve uses the solenoid the DV's use (they used to get their solenoids from ITT)

Weathermatic 8000 valves, with the S24B solenoid might be my first choice, but I don't know if W*M solenoid woes have the possibility of reaching this top-end design.
My only concern with Weathermatic is that none of the local suppliers stock WM but can order it form me. If I have a problem with a WM then the system will be down until a part comes in. The system is a community wide system and it irrigates over $17million in property...

Wet_Boots
10-24-2007, 08:14 PM
Just stock a couple of solenoids and diaphragms. From install, in my experience, the trouble-free life of a W*M 8000 starts at a decade, and goes up from there.

Rainbird does have their own foundry (all that ag stuff, you know) and both Rainbird and W*M use the reverse-flow design.

londonrain
10-24-2007, 08:19 PM
Just stock a couple of solenoids and diaphragms. From install, in my experience, the trouble-free life of a W*M 8000 starts at a decade, and goes up from there.

Rainbird does have their own foundry (all that ag stuff, you know) and both Rainbird and W*M use the reverse-flow design.
That is what I was planning on doing with the RB....I will check and see if my supplier will order the extra parts for the WM....and I might just go with the WM .

Wet_Boots
10-24-2007, 08:23 PM
Strictly for cheap, the W*M diaphragm should cost less than Rainbird's, especially if the RB is only available as a full assembly - W*M can sell you just the rubber, and you can easily swap out the rest of the assembly parts.

londonrain
10-24-2007, 08:27 PM
Strictly for cheap, the W*M diaphragm should cost less than Rainbird's, especially if the RB is only available as a full assembly - W*M can sell you just the rubber, and you can easily swap out the rest of the assembly parts.

Ok that the info I was looking for...thanks Boots. If I can order the extra parts then I think I will be using the WM 8200cr-15...

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-24-2007, 08:33 PM
Kiril I think was talking the Griswold. I'd go with the WM myself as well. Been repairing them in Dallas for 27 years and sometimes they last 35 years before needing service.

Wet_Boots
10-24-2007, 08:35 PM
For a critical use, you're going to stock the repair parts yourself, I would expect. I haven't used Rainbird brass since they stopped using the (excellent) ITT solenoid assembly, and probably nothing they've made themselves has surpassed the original.

Griswold is good stuff, but way too obscure, and with expensive parts. And the valves are not reverse-flow design.

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 08:36 PM
Kiril I think was talking the Griswold. I'd go with the WM myself as well. Been repairing them in Dallas for 27 years and sometimes they last 35 years before needing service.

Wow! We all agree...what's wrong? ::sees approaching thundercloud post
on the horizon::

londonrain
10-24-2007, 08:50 PM
Thanks all for your input...WM it will be.....:Succumbing to Peer Pressure:

Mike Leary
10-24-2007, 09:18 PM
I haven't used Rainbird brass since they stopped using the (excellent) ITT solenoid assembly, and probably nothing they've made themselves has surpassed the original. And the valves are not reverse-flow design.

Still got ITT solenoids in service..30 years? Reverse flow yes always.:)

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 12:15 AM
Superior makes a great brass valve...as an option.

melior quam pluvia
10-25-2007, 12:29 AM
http://www.superiorcontrolsco.com/index.html

jerryrwm
10-25-2007, 12:36 AM
My first choice would be the W*M 8000 and stock a couple diaphragms and solenoids. Charge a little more and keep the parts specific for that property. Rainbird is also a good valve but as other have said, they are subject to changing something and parts don't interchange. The W*M 8000 has used the same parts for over 30 years. You can buy a new diaphragm and it will fit in a 30+ yr old valve.

Wet_Boots
10-25-2007, 01:11 AM
Originally misquoted by Bleary - I haven't used Rainbird brass since they stopped using the (excellent) ITT solenoid assembly, and probably nothing they've made themselves has surpassed the original. And the valves are not reverse-flow design.
Still got ITT solenoids in service..30 years? Reverse flow yes always.:)The last sentence was in reference to Griswold valves. Nice edit (http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=2009211&postcount=15) for the quote. Please send your resume to Fox News. :rolleyes:

Kiril
10-25-2007, 08:46 AM
If you open your choices to valves that are not normally considered "irrigation" valves, then your options open up tremendously. Personally, if I were looking for a mission critical valve that will be going through that many duty cycles, I would be looking at industrial rated valves, be they globes or ball valves, forget about the irrigation valves.

That being said, when you step into that market be prepared to spend a pretty penny. I just got a 1" actuated ball valve for our house, set me back $300 bucks.

BTW Fimco, I had posted a couple of valves a while back. One was the Griswold (which I ended up getting for a job), the others were Apollo, Asco, and maybe a few others. Some consider the Asco valves cream of the crop, and based on their prices they better be. :)

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-25-2007, 08:48 AM
Originally misquoted by Bleary - I haven't used Rainbird brass since they stopped using the (excellent) ITT solenoid assembly, and probably nothing they've made themselves has surpassed the original. And the valves are not reverse-flow design.
The last sentence was in reference to Griswold valves. Nice edit (http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=2009211&postcount=15) for the quote. Please send your resume to Fox News. :rolleyes:
Haven't clicked your nice edit yet but I'll do so now.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-25-2007, 08:49 AM
Haven't clicked your nice edit yet but I'll do so now.

It's safe no badgers.

Wet_Boots
10-25-2007, 09:18 AM
If diaphragm valves couldn't handle an irrigation task, that would come as a surprise to Cla-Val, who can separate you from about as many dollars as you can spend on a valve for (big) irrigation. And if diaphragms in valves couldn't be trusted, that extends to every RPZ out there.

Kiril
10-25-2007, 09:21 AM
It is not a question of trust, but duty cycles before failure.

Just look at those valves, they only have 2 solenoid valves.
Do you know how much they run?

Wet_Boots
10-25-2007, 09:35 AM
They don't have legs, so they just sit there, and don't run. W*M's S24B solenoid may be about as good as it gets, with the teflon coating on the plunger, and a spring not likely to fail from metal fatigue.

Kiril
10-25-2007, 09:48 AM
They don't have legs, so they just sit there, and don't run.

Funny. http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/265.gif

Solenoids with surge suppression and may very well be the most beautiful shiny valve on the market.

http://www.ascovalve.com/Common/PDFFiles/Product/NextGenDiv2_V7381R5.pdf