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bobw
10-27-2007, 11:55 AM
Just a couple of questions for you guys that pull PVC into the ground...

1) How are you connecting the pulled laterals into the valve? Using a slip fix to bridge the gap and allow for twist when glueing?

2) How are you connecting heads to the laterals? Saddles?

3) What is the general order that you are progressing the project?

i.e. Trench mainline, pull lateral, install valve, install heads?


I'm just working on a commercial bid and given the site, I'm thinking that pulling PVC might be a much better idea than trenching everywhere. We always pull poly on residentials, and usually use poly for laterals on commercial, but this projects specs call for PVC laterals, so I'm just trying to find the most cost efficient method.

hoskm01
10-27-2007, 12:08 PM
By pulling, I assume you mean trenching! Can you truly "pull" PVC?

hoskm01
10-27-2007, 12:15 PM
Didnt read your whole post, I see now... You can pull PVC? At any rate, heres what I got, dont know if this would be different pulling, we dont do that here in the desert.


1) How are you connecting the pulled laterals into the valve?


Glue it straight in to the adapter or joint.


2) How are you connecting heads to the laterals? Saddles?




T's or elbows with swing joints, in most cases.



3) What is the general order that you are progressing the project?

Trench, rough lay with fittings, cut and glue, valves/ manifold, heads, backfill.



Am I off my rocker?

Wet_Boots
10-27-2007, 12:23 PM
Are you sure pulling PVC is a great idea in Alberta? I figure you'd have a good possibility of 'frost and heave' action in the cold weather, which could do major damage to cold PVC. A lot of PVC spec jobs in poly territory involve backfilling trenches with trucked-in sand.

Mike Leary
10-27-2007, 01:25 PM
Didnt read your whole post, I see now...
Am I off my rocker?

::::backs out of thread:::::

BrandonV
10-27-2007, 01:46 PM
trench trench trench, you could rent a ground saw if the ground is all hard

Mike Leary
10-27-2007, 01:47 PM
trench trench trench, you could rent a ground saw if the ground is all hard

With ROTAR, you have a human ground saw!:laugh:

bobw
10-27-2007, 03:31 PM
Are you sure pulling PVC is a great idea in Alberta? I figure you'd have a good possibility of 'frost and heave' action in the cold weather, which could do major damage to cold PVC. A lot of PVC spec jobs in poly territory involve backfilling trenches with trucked-in sand.

Am I sure that pulling PVC is a great idea around here? Good question. I have seen it done around here (in fact, within 2 blocks of this particular site). The mainline will have to be trenched, backfill requirements do not call for sand, just clean fill less than 3/4" in size. Unfortunately, the landscape architect that spec'd the irrigation isn't from around here and spec'd PVC laterals. I usually use Poly laterals to avoid any heaving concerns.

I could trench all the laterals in, I'm just looking to be more efficient and do less ground damage; all told there will be 9000 feet of lateral line to worry about, so any efficiencies found do pay off on this scale.

BrandonV
10-27-2007, 03:40 PM
sch 40 or pr 200/160

Dirty Water
10-27-2007, 04:22 PM
We would pull up to 2 inch no problem. You just need a strong plow, like a 410sx.

Once the pipe is pulled, you can use a rubbet mallet on one end of the pull to move it in the ground, so you just line it up with the valve, and apply glue and have an assistant hit the pipe a few times on the other end. On short pulls, you can pull and twist the entire length by hand in the hole.

Same goes for heads, just a regular slip x slip x thread tee, its easy to slide the pipe in the hole.

Mjtrole
10-27-2007, 04:34 PM
Any pvc can be pulled in the ground, did a large project w/4" mains
2.5" feeds to the zone of 1 1/2" poly. Everything was pulled but the 4" because it was gasket pipe.

You basically need to have an order for the project and the best way to go about this it to pull the main and wiring and get your valves set. Once you pull the laterals out of the valves "pound" the laterals into the valve with a sledge.

Keep in mind each day to glue some pipe for the next day of pulling.

bobw
10-27-2007, 05:00 PM
We would pull up to 2 inch no problem. You just need a strong plow, like a 410sx.

Once the pipe is pulled, you can use a rubbet mallet on one end of the pull to move it in the ground, so you just line it up with the valve, and apply glue and have an assistant hit the pipe a few times on the other end. On short pulls, you can pull and twist the entire length by hand in the hole.

Same goes for heads, just a regular slip x slip x thread tee, its easy to slide the pipe in the hole.

We won't be looking at anything bigger than 2" on the laterals. In a clay type soil, there will be enough "slip" to pound back 100' of pipe?

Would love to do sxsxf tees for the heads, but the spec's call for brass saddles. Pricey little spec that...

Dirty Water
10-27-2007, 05:08 PM
If you are concerned about moving the pipe, use a drag behind bullet on the plow blade to leave a large cavity for the pipe.

bobw
10-27-2007, 05:18 PM
If you are concerned about moving the pipe, use a drag behind bullet on the plow blade to leave a large cavity for the pipe.

wasn't thinking...pull grip bullet has to be 1.5x the size of pipe... should leave a good enough tunnel, and help avoid bogging down from pipe friction on the pull.

WalkGood
10-28-2007, 11:00 PM
General question to the pvc pullers out there: How long after glueing must one wait before safely pulling?

This one probably varies to soil conditions, tunnel size, power of puler machine, but how long in feet can you pull pvc?

Dirty Water
10-29-2007, 12:12 AM
General question to the pvc pullers out there: How long after glueing must one wait before safely pulling?

This one probably varies to soil conditions, tunnel size, power of puler machine, but how long in feet can you pull pvc?

We used a really hot IPS glue, and you could pull within 5 minutes of glueing.

I don't pull over 100', unless its in a straight line, I've pulled 300+ feet perfectly straight before.

Something awesome about laying 300 feet of pipe in the ground and backfilled in under 10 minutes.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-29-2007, 06:48 AM
We used a really hot IPS glue, and you could pull within 5 minutes of glueing.

I don't pull over 100', unless its in a straight line, I've pulled 300+ feet perfectly straight before.

Something awesome about laying 300 feet of pipe in the ground and backfilled in under 10 minutes.

But you haven't put any heads in yet. I assume you need to dig at each head location and put a saddle on and dig a short trench to the location of the head? Also do you pull wire as well? I can see pulling pvc in loose glacier fill but pulling in our gumbo is a whole different matter. The pulled systems I've dealt with had poor design layouts because it was based on where they could pull rather than on good irrigation. Plus pulling requires manifolded valves and limited mainline runs I would think. I'd rather have LR show up with his trenchers and McCullough coverup.

jimmyburg
10-29-2007, 09:14 AM
But you haven't put any heads in yet. I assume you need to dig at each head location and put a saddle on and dig a short trench to the location of the head? Also do you pull wire as well? I can see pulling pvc in loose glacier fill but pulling in our gumbo is a whole different matter. The pulled systems I've dealt with had poor design layouts because it was based on where they could pull rather than on good irrigation. Plus pulling requires manifolded valves and limited mainline runs I would think. I'd rather have LR show up with his trenchers and McCullough coverup.


I agree, my guys fight over who is going to run the cover up machine. best money i had ever spent.

Dirty Water
10-29-2007, 10:58 AM
But you haven't put any heads in yet. I assume you need to dig at each head location and put a saddle on and dig a short trench to the location of the head? Also do you pull wire as well? I can see pulling pvc in loose glacier fill but pulling in our gumbo is a whole different matter. The pulled systems I've dealt with had poor design layouts because it was based on where they could pull rather than on good irrigation. Plus pulling requires manifolded valves and limited mainline runs I would think. I'd rather have LR show up with his trenchers and McCullough coverup.

Those long runs are usually mainline pulls, so no heads.

Even when you pull a zone line, you end up digging just a small 1' long trench parallel with the pipe (We pull right through the head location) and smacking in a tee. You can do that 5 times for the zone faster than the regular trencher can finish the trench.

Plus, you don't have to worry about tamping, or the ground settling or reseeding.

hoskm01
10-29-2007, 11:09 AM
You can do that 5 times for the zone faster than the regular trencher can finish the trench.

Plus, you don't have to worry about tamping, or the ground settling or reseeding.



::: Dreams of pulling pipe:::

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-29-2007, 12:11 PM
Those long runs are usually mainline pulls, so no heads.

Even when you pull a zone line, you end up digging just a small 1' long trench parallel with the pipe (We pull right through the head location) and smacking in a tee. You can do that 5 times for the zone faster than the regular trencher can finish the trench.

Plus, you don't have to worry about tamping, or the ground settling or reseeding.

How do you put the tee in? Is it a saddle tee or do you slipfix in each tee into the pipe? I don't see how you put the fittings, elbows, etc. seems like you pull the pipe and then do a giant repair job putting in all the heads and stuff.

Dirty Water
10-29-2007, 07:26 PM
Cut pipe, slide it one way, glue a tee, and then slide it back in.

You can slide freshly plowed pipe by hand with no problem.

MOlawnman
11-02-2007, 10:59 PM
We pull PVC cl200 mains with control wire and poly laterals on residentials. On some commercials we use only cl200. You don't have to mainfold all the valves but it does make it somewhat easier depending on the application. We use the Blazing Saddles for all head connections regardless of poly or pvc. Our production times have decreased since we started pulling a few years ago. My two man crew can install a complete residential system in less than 14 hours.