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GameDawg33
10-28-2007, 08:56 PM
A good customer of mine has a 2 & a half acre property and it is infested with fire ant mounds everywhere. He has a little boy & desperatly wants to get rid of them. What would be his best bet & then maitenance program.

lee b
11-28-2008, 11:40 AM
Regent, absolute 100% control.

tamadrummer
11-28-2008, 12:05 PM
A good customer of mine has a 2 & a half acre property and it is infested with fire ant mounds everywhere. He has a little boy & desperatly wants to get rid of them. What would be his best bet & then maitenance program.

Go and get 4 25lb bags of Talstar EZ and spread it and then in a month or so, get some Fipronil and Advion and spread it when you see the ants forging for food. Make sure it will not rain for a couple of days at a minimum and the Advion will give quick knock down and the fipronil will give the lasting effect.

This should not be applied by you but by them because you need to be a licensed applicator to do it.

The Talstar EZ will give you quick results but I don't know how long you can expect it to last.

tamadrummer
11-28-2008, 03:48 PM
RIC Where are you? You are the expert in this!

heybruck34
12-09-2008, 09:43 AM
I use TopChoice. It's expensive but works. Year 1 I had 90-95% control. Year 2 I had 99.9%. I know sandy soils don't retain the chemicals like NC red clay does but I heard they use it at The Alamo in TX where Fire Ants are the worst I'm told.

Advion works well for getting rid of existing mounds while you are waiting ~4 weeks for the TC to take effect. I put mine down in March-April before the ants really come out and it lasts all year. My neighbors (who must be dumb because I have told them) wonder why I walk around my grass barefoot. "I could never do that- the ants are too bad..." I didn't get bitten once this year on my own lawn.

Treating my 40lb dog for ant bites ONCE cost me more than treating the whole lawn (1/2 acre) for fire ants. Money well spent.

Powershotjoe
12-22-2008, 11:19 PM
gasoline. works everytime

TAMU2003
12-30-2008, 10:18 PM
I agree on the Advion its pure Gold best bait on the market.

Id pass on the talstar its just bifenthrin.

Top choice used to be our ticket and combined with advion it was deadly BUT if you get poor coverage you will see fire ants. i just get sick of bayer putting products out to professionals only to provide the consumer the same thing but half the concentration.

Ric
12-30-2008, 11:39 PM
RIC Where are you? You are the expert in this!

Tamadrummer

Yes I have posted so much information on Fire Ant control I am not sure I could add any more information. Rather than retype an other novel I suggest those interested do a search Using "Fire Ants" as the search word and look for threads with my screen name.

I will say this being the dry season baits will work well and be economic. But please read about baits and how they work in order to use them properly. My personal experience with Advion is, it has a fast knock down but no real residual. Top Choice as heybuck has said only works on soil with high CEC and not coastal Florida's sandy soil.

bug-guy
12-31-2008, 07:52 AM
topchoice is good but takes up to 2 months to work
i would apply the topchioce and spot with advion

remember to apply advion near mounds not on top
also with baits you can apply in bands as ants will travel to get it

Ric
12-31-2008, 10:36 AM
Bug Guy

Just some thoughts about Economics of application and customer perception. First, Top Choice is a very expensive product per thousand sq ft. Top Choice takes 6 to 8 weeks to gain control. It does not always last the year it is marketed as working. However on heavy Clay-loam soils it can last even longer than the year. Call backs can be both a PITA and not the best customer perception. I personally find Top Choice a bad choice in my sandy soil. Advion is a species specific bait and will not control other species of ants, this gives bad customer perception that you did not control their ants when they still see other ants alive and well.

The one product I have found that works best for spot treatment is 1/2 a teaspoon of Acephate. While this is not a bait, ants seem to carry it into the mound even if applied directly on top of it. I see control in 10 to 15 minutes. Years ago when I did mowing, we carried a bottle of Orthene on the mowers. After removing the lid we only ice picked the paper seal to turn it into a salt shaker. This made for an excellent applicator that could be kept shut tight on the mower.

We each must find what works best for us. In my case I have liquid insecticide costs down to under $ 10.00 an acre. 1/4 acre lots I hose spray and on large properties I am using a boom sprayer and fire hosing the area every 60 days. On large acreage, Namely Agriculture land I am baning Baits once a year and getting reasonable control. But I am also using special equipment that I have purchased or designed.

Many Years ago I realized Fire Ants were the number one insect concern in the south. Therefore I studied ant control hard and heavy. I even got phone numbers with the word ANTS (2687). At one time I wanted to be the Fire Ant King. But my love of plants took me into the nursery business. Now that I am semi retired I may just pursue the Fire Ant King again.

bug-guy
12-31-2008, 04:06 PM
i have had very good results here with topchoice. and a few of my friends offer it also.
the one condition is if you are only doing a topchoice app and promise for a yr you must charge accordingly somewhere a little less than if you were going to spray the property for ants every other month. some guy's have cust. who request it but also spray the lawn on a reg basis and they charge less as they will be on the lawn several times anyway.

isn't funny how some people have good luck with a product and others don't... all things being the same.

Ric
01-01-2009, 11:48 AM
i have had very good results here with topchoice. and a few of my friends offer it also.
the one condition is if you are only doing a topchoice app and promise for a yr you must charge accordingly somewhere a little less than if you were going to spray the property for ants every other month. some guy's have cust. who request it but also spray the lawn on a reg basis and they charge less as they will be on the lawn several times anyway.

isn't funny how some people have good luck with a product and others don't... all things being the same.

Bug Guy

My choice of programs also takes into account marketing factors. By applying every 60 days I get better contact with my customer and have 6 opportunities per year to up sell service to them or their neighbors and friends. In addition I am offering a better service than Top Choice in the fact I am using a Broad Spectrum insecticide that controls many species including to help prevent many other species like Fleas and Ticks. I also spray trees and shrubs and provide a barrier treatment to structures on the property at no extra charge. At application costs to fire hose of just under $ 2.50 per normal size lot in my area I almost feel like I am stealing. Competition for this market is heavy and to build an account base takes a lot of marketing.

BTW in your position as a Lesco Clerk you have a opportunity to net work with many LCO who only have limited licenses. Many of these guys want to put down their own fertilizer. By Networking with them and offering the same Fire hose broad spectrum insecticide program you can build an account base very quickly.

The Greenest thing in the Green Industry is the Green Back United States Dollar. It does not always take technology to produce that USD Green, (BTW as seen in many posts here). But it does take some drive and a little common sense. Bayer like many companies only take into account their profit and marketing and they can care less that their once a year product does allow you the opportunity to market to your customer.

BTW I have had this same discussion here on LS many years ago. I am sure someone can find it in the archives.

gregory
01-01-2009, 10:18 PM
i ahve used top choice for the last 2 years on my acre lot yeah it worked but for only 8 months.. its gotten way to high for me to buy again.. i have talked to ric and he has told me the in and out's of the way he does his fire ant control so this year i am going to try his way and i am sure it will work just fine and will be a hell of alot cheaper then me buying top choice..the last time i checked for me to treat my yard with top choice it was over 400.00.. i haven't price checked top choice in a few months but i am sure it hasn't gone down any......

bug-guy
01-03-2009, 09:51 AM
i have used topchoice on jobs that spraying every 60 days were not practical.
large lots 5 acres and more were the owner had the immediate lawn around the home treated but wanted some control away from the house.
also some church areas that were basically fields that would be used for outdoor activities
but had no real irrigation. we would apply during the rainy season before the field would be used.
again these would be up sells that normally we would not do

Ric
01-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Bug Guy

Top Choice might work for you. You are in Central Florida and might have better chemical holding power in your soil. But as Gregory said and I have found true in our area, Top Choice doesn't go the distances. It is not the product, even our fertilizer leaches out quicker. I believe it was rcreech in an other thread who made the point what works for you might not work for me and vice a versa. I find during the dry season Baits work well at about 1/20 the cost of Top Choice. They take about as long to be effective and in cases of large area applications can offer a long control. Large Cattle ranches are applying Baits by airplane over sq miles and getting a years control with out any trouble. Orange groves are using Liquid bait stations year round and getting excellent control. These Station are filled about twice a year with a 1/2 gallon each of a very inexpensive Boric acid solution. Being placed approx 150 ft apart under the shade of the citrus trees they are very cost effective. But my point is there are more than one way to skin a cat.

bug-guy
01-03-2009, 11:24 AM
ric i agree with you what ever works

i always look at where the person who posts is from because what i read sometimes make no sense and then i see they are from another part of the country.
and i realize all things aren't the same so i just read and learn about other areas.
first let me say that i enjoy most of your post's
but if i post something that i like or worked for me you seem to be so negitive... which is alright to disagree or show how something didn't work for you, but you seem to over do it.
when some say they tried something and have had great results my hears perk up and i listen and ask questions.
when others say they have had no luck with a product i seem to think there are alot a variables that they might have done something wrong to get less than desirable results or as in your experience, conditions like soil types which are out of your control

it is ok the disagree and to show different opinions and results and then let the principle party make their own choice

and alot of times no one is wrong

i have seen in 25 years alot of different ways of doing things
and lately the past few yearsin your position as a Lesco Clerk i have had the opportunity to see alot of different companies and how they TRY to do things

Ric
01-03-2009, 01:43 PM
Bug Guy

You say I am negative, yet you keep coming back with how great Top Choice is. I have clearly stated my reasons why Top Choice doesn't work for me. I gave Agronomic, Cost and Marketing reasons why I am not a fan of Top Choice. You only state that Top Choice works for you. You don't give any real reasons as to why you use it except one. WHY are those large acre areas are not practical to treat more than once a year. I can sure treat any area by walking a chest spreader at any time. By treating with baits before rainy season I get control long before rainy season when more people are going to be using those fields.

Top Choice is a species specific insecticide. It does claims to do control on Fleas & Ticks for a LIMITED time only. But Fleas & Ticks kind to live in shrubs or trees off the ground where Top Choice can't get to them. Yet it does a great job on Mole Crickets if applied at the proper window of opportunity. My method however controls many other insects on both turf and ornamental at a faction of the cost.

I might be negative in your eyes. But in my mind I am just trying to point out Common Sense. Why pay and charge more for something that does half the job????

BTW I could play devils advocate and take your side and do a much better job of pointing out the value of Top Choice. Which BTW you have totally missed in your posts.

bug-guy
01-03-2009, 02:06 PM
Top Choice is a species specific insecticide

i believe the topic was fire ant help


You don't give any real reasons as to why you use it except one.


how many do i need?

Ric
01-03-2009, 03:00 PM
i believe the topic was fire ant help

how many do i need?

Come on Bug Guy

Fire Ant help at an affordable price is the subject here. If the man wanted to pay a fortune he would have hired you to treat the area and not of posted the question in the first place.


Gee Ric

As a CPO and homeowner you want products that open new markets and care for your insect problems. Of the Trillions of acres of turf in the southern USA only a small percentage are Fine lawns that receive regular pest control. These large acreages of turf still need minimal treatment for insects. The Number one insect problem or concern to the public is Fire Ants. However this turf is also plagued by Mole Crickets that eat the roots as the Number one insect to destroy that turf. As a very busy CPO I know your time is valuable. Scheduling service calls can be a full jobs. You want a product that can be applied quickly with a reasonable profit by help with a minimum of training and yet not be a continuing or reoccurring scheduling problem.

Top Choice is that product. It takes care of the Number 1 Insect concern to people and the Number one insect concern to most turfs. By using Top Choice once a year you can control both Number one insect pests and open new market that you would other wise not be able to handle. Top choice can be applied using only an inexpensive push spreader by Techs with a minimum of training. Since you only need to apply it once a year, Causal Help can be hired for the short application season of your reoccurring Top Choice Customers. This allows your full time techs to keep up with busy schedule. Yes Top Choice is the two in one insecticide that opens new markets and puts more profit in your pocket. BTW Once a year Ant Control really pushes the buttons on the ant-a-phobic who have no desire to see ants. Be sure to add the fact no more regular poisons being applied to their yard each month. Fipronil is toxic enough to last a life time in your liver.

Sincerely

Bug Guy

bug-guy
01-03-2009, 03:37 PM
please don't sign my name to your post.
it might be mistaken

as i said i respect your knowledge and find your post informative it just seems if i have an opinion it is wrong
sorry

Ric
01-03-2009, 06:36 PM
Bug Guy

My last post was all about salesmanship. Something you might want to work on. Your opinion is never wrong, just not defended or sold. Selling is the most important talent you can develop. You just don't sell your customer. You must sell your supplier and more important your employee to do a great job. If you ever hear a Blond brag about how much her boss loves her work, you are seeing the work of a great salesman.

An example of negative selling would be tell someone not to use your screen name and then tell them you respect them. You are sending two totally different messages in the same breath. These are called back handed complements.