Retirement kind of question

[HeartOfTexas]

I'm a 53-year-old looking to get back into the business. I've had a part-time lawn business for about 5 years but am looking to re-start something as a bigger operation.

I'm doing some planning and have wondered if any of you have also thought about this or have seen it done by someone else. It seems that as a lawn mowing/maintenance operation reached a certain size that a person in their mid-60s or older could still be involved but to a lesser extent. Providing that the aging owner had a competent and trustworthy manager(s) that he could have a minimal day-to-day presence. He could still be involved with marketing, doing some of the estimates, invoices, etc.

If that is possible, than the owner who may not have been as diligent as he should have been about investing in his 401K and other retirement investing could remain out of the poor house. He'd also be somewhat active but wouldn't have to rely on physical strength.

Has anyone seen this done or have similar plans?

Thanks

[Roger]

I am 66 and intend to work at least 60 hours per week, primarily solo. My work is primarily mowing, as I don't want to make significant other investments in the business. I cannot even fathom the idea of finding people to work for me so that I might sit back and not be hands-on. But, others may find it to work for them. However, I surely wouldn't count on much income for retirement living.

[HeartOfTexas]

Hmmm, that's kind of discouraging. Seems that it should work though. For example, most people indicate that they make $40 - $50 per hour for the work that they do. If you have 2 people that you pay $10 - $12 an hour to do much of the work you will make money from their labor. That's the way most businesses work. You concentrate on gaining more sales. Its the old idea of "working on the business not so much working in the business."

[loom-gen]

Roger is working 60 hours a week. He's making a killing. I only do this part time @ 50 hours a week and w/employees, I am doing over 100K a year. Minus expenses that comes to 16 or 18 dollars a year. This means Roger should have about 20 bucks in his pocket when winter comes.

[ed2hess]

Hmmm, that's kind of discouraging. Seems that it should work though. For example, most people indicate that they make $40 - $50 per hour for the work that they do. If you have 2 people that you pay $10 - $12 an hour to do much of the work you will make money from their labor. That's the way most businesses work. You concentrate on gaining more sales. Its the old idea of "working on the business not so much working in the business."
One problem is workers......If you know where/how to get them you could make more money providing workers to companies than mowing grass. And workers need 40Hrs per week and they want to work year round.....so to keep them you need to do other stuff.

[Roger]

One problem is workers......If you know where/how to get them you could make more money providing workers to companies than mowing grass. ...

For me, this is the heart of the problem -- getting help that will do the job expected, being consistent and reliable. The initial post sounds good on paper, but executing the plan is impossible. In other fields that utilize higher-level workers, the plan will work much better. But, for lawn service, where the work primarily attracts a workforce that requires little education, no training, and limited skill sets, I don't think the idea will work.

[HeartOfTexas]

I see what you're saying Rodger and ed2Hess and I agree that it would be a challenge. It would be especially hard to offer year-round work and maybe that could only be done for 1 or 2 key workers.

However, other industries also face this challenge. One is the fast-food industry. They succeed with lowly educated part-time workers. My wife works with a fast-food company that treats their employees extremely well. Their workforce primarily consists of students.

This could also be done with lawn care. My son goes to school at Texas A&M. He has worked for a lawncare company that services commercial properties. The owner has 4 part-time employees and they are all college students and great workers.

[All_Toro_4ME]

My son goes to school at Texas A&M.

Good luck with the football game this wknd against our Sooners. Should be interesting.

[HeartOfTexas]

Yeah, that will be a tough game for them, Oklahoma will be favored by a lot. But, I'm an OSU fan but I mean the real OSU. I graduated from the Ohio State University.

[ed2hess]

I see what you're saying Rodger and ed2Hess and I agree that it would be a challenge. It would be especially hard to offer year-round work and maybe that could only be done for 1 or 2 key workers.

However, other industries also face this challenge. One is the fast-food industry. They succeed with lowly educated part-time workers. My wife works with a fast-food company that treats their employees extremely well. Their workforce primarily consists of students.

This could also be done with lawn care. My son goes to school at Texas A&M. He has worked for a lawncare company that services commercial properties. The owner has 4 part-time employees and they are all college students and great workers.
Fast food places offers 7 day a week and 52 weeks a year. We advertise heavily each year and there are NO workers in this area that respond to the required ads we put out.

[HeartOfTexas]

Regardless if they are open 7 days a week most fast food employees work part-time. Many are students or people who just want, or are able, to work part-time.

[ed2hess]

Regardless if they are open 7 days a week most fast food employees work part-time. Many are students or people who just want, or are able, to work part-time.

Not the professional workers......you are still thinking about kids going to school and wanting to work in lawn business. Any kid/young man can go out with his own mower and work part time and make up to $60/hr(according to these guys on lawn site) so why would he want to work for $10.

[supercuts]

i think it will be difficult, not impossible to do this. your going to need to find a very mature person in his 20's or an older person to act as a forman or manager to your employees. like you stated, the older person should take more of an administrative position, but on a crew perhaps more of sitting his rear on a ZTR and makding the others trim/push/blow, whatever. same for mulch, hedges, have him get the supplies while having the younger guys do the manual work. that will keep your loyal mature worker happy and understanding your needs while knowing that your younger employees will come and go. the problem will be finding work for you manager in the winter or banking enough in the summer to keep him on payroll or allow him to collect unemployement on the off season. so dont forget to build that into your fees.

good luck, i think its doable. the other choice to consider is to stay solo, small and only provide limited services( most likely just mowing, maybe hedges and a few cleanups). you will know your limits as you get older. around here there are plenty of other companies to team up with. perhaps you can find a larger company to work with to take care of all the work you dont want to perform. im sure the larger companies wont mind piggy backing off of you and cashing in on the work you dont want.

let this be a lesson to each of us to put enough away into IRA's and 401K's. never ever barrow from your 401K too. even if you pay them back your still paying taxes on the loan taken out, the money you put back, and on that same money again when you finally take it in the end.

[HeartOfTexas]

Thanks, everyone for your comments and help. I appreciate it.

Jerry