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hoskm01
11-01-2007, 08:11 PM
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/valve1.jpg


From a customer. He doesnt know where its leaking from. I didnt install it, never worked on this side of the yard. Havent been out to see it yet, got this in Email for a fix.


What is everyones guess on it?


Going for a moonlight fix tonight. Cant turn off water as ryegrass is coming in, must stay wet,wet,wet. Will take some delicious pictures.

Mike Leary
11-01-2007, 08:19 PM
Has that lawn genie/cheapo look..no flow control..what's the other?
lawn life..external bleed..irritrol clone..nice they gave us philips heads
to get the bonnet off...junk, replace it. What do I win?

Wet_Boots
11-01-2007, 08:33 PM
The simple 'fix' is to tighten all the cover screws, since the Richdel design was always prone to drips when the cover screws weren't torqued.

bobw
11-01-2007, 08:36 PM
was going to suggest a cracked bonnet from freezing..but in AZ, that seems unlikely. I'll go with boots and suggest loose bonnet....

BrandonV
11-01-2007, 09:15 PM
looks like he'll need a complete system rework

Rotor_Tool
11-01-2007, 10:04 PM
The safest Richdel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve. Dig that puppy up and put a DV in it's place.

irrig8r
11-01-2007, 10:33 PM
The safest Richdel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve. Dig that puppy up and put a DV in it's place.

I would replace it too, and (I expect to get flack for this) I have this past season with Irrigation Direct inline valves. They are a cross between a Weathermatic-style body an an Irritrol-style solenoid.

A DVF might be my second choice. Both good values. But I don't like the self tapping screws of the RB DV and ASVF series.

Mike Leary
11-01-2007, 10:48 PM
I have this past season with Irrigation Direct inline valves. They are a cross between a Weathermatic-style body an an Irritrol-style solenoid

No flack from me..gotta link to "Irrigation Direct"?

EagleLandscape
11-01-2007, 11:08 PM
Stick in a silver bullet. Although there is a slight chance it's not even the valve that's leaking. With all of that gravel, could be a hairline crack in the mainline and the water just seeks its own level (in the valve box).

But, 99% of the time it's probably just a bad valve:)

EagleLandscape
11-01-2007, 11:08 PM
Sell him a ball valve in front of the electric valve and a valve box while you're at it.

londonrain
11-01-2007, 11:11 PM
I'm with boots on this one...its a 205 flow-control valve....One thing I can say about a 205 is that I have never replaced a cracked body on this valve..unlike DV's so don't replace with a DV....

Kiril
11-02-2007, 12:00 AM
The simple 'fix' is to tighten all the cover screws, since the Richdel design was always prone to drips when the cover screws weren't torqued.

Agreed, especially considering they always seem to ship them with screws not torqued down. :clapping:

jerryrwm
11-02-2007, 12:39 AM
Might be a worn out/damaged bleed screw - loose or overtorqued.
Might be as Boots said loose bonnet screws or they may have been tightened improperly. Need to tighten those rascals like lugs on a wheel.

Mike that is an Irritrol 205PR valve with the same configuration as the Lawn Genie which was green.

Boots the flow control knob is missing which is a problem with these valves.

Next step if it can't be repaired with a little effort is to cut it out and replace it with your valve of choice.

Stillwater
11-02-2007, 12:49 AM
replace it...........

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-02-2007, 07:13 AM
The 205F is an irrigation superstar. Totally unnecessary to cut it out. Either tighten the screws or get a brand new and swap the bonnet, solenoid, and guts. most used valve in Dallas. I'd give it an A for durability.

londonrain
11-02-2007, 09:32 AM
The 205F is an irrigation superstar. Totally unnecessary to cut it out. Either tighten the screws or get a brand new and swap the bonnet, solenoid, and guts. most used valve in Dallas. I'd give it an A for durability.This is also one of the most used valves in my area...
Anyone saying cut it out does not know how reliable these valves are....

Stillwater
11-02-2007, 09:47 AM
This is also one of the most used valves in my area...
Anyone saying cut it out does not know how reliable these valves are....

open it up and toss in the new internals your done....

irrig8r
11-02-2007, 12:20 PM
No flack from me..gotta link to "Irrigation Direct"?

http://www.irrigationdirect.com/products/db.asp/id/valves

irrig8r
11-02-2007, 12:26 PM
This is also one of the most used valves in my area...
Anyone saying cut it out does not know how reliable these valves are....

I used to run across a lot of them in the mid 80's. Fewer since then. Hydro Rain/ Hardie/ Irritrol Century series from the same era held up better. Weathermatics from that era too. And the advantage when servicing the Weathermatic is fewer damned screws... in fact, sturdy bolts instead of screws.

Did I mention- I HATE self tapping screws in plastic valve bodies... :)

Ed G
11-02-2007, 01:36 PM
That copper pipe sure looks corroded.

There is a chance it is not the valve leaking.

irrig8r
11-02-2007, 01:47 PM
Hmmmm.
Seems to me the water level in the valve box lines up with the green oxidation on the copper pipe... so the leaky valve could be the cause of corrosion, or a corroded pipe could be the source of the leak...

So, who's taking bets?

Ed G
11-02-2007, 01:53 PM
but then again, that water is rather foamy and it could be yellow...

Might be caused by a leak in the photographer :)

bobw
11-02-2007, 02:11 PM
Hmmmm.
Seems to me the water level in the valve box lines up with the green oxidation on the copper pipe... so the leaky valve could be the cause of corrosion, or a corroded pipe could be the source of the leak...

So, who's taking bets?

The wet spot seems to be radiating from the valve box and not the pipe...my bet is that the leak is in the vb....

CAPT Stream Rotar
11-02-2007, 02:23 PM
I vote new system......

jerryrwm
11-02-2007, 03:28 PM
but then again, that water is rather foamy and it could be yellow...

Might be caused by a leak in the photographer :)
Now that's just not right on so many levels.!!!

EagleLandscape
11-02-2007, 05:06 PM
Nothing a backhoe wouldn't solve.

Stillwater
11-02-2007, 06:58 PM
Just jam pack some more gravel in their and call it a day

londonrain
11-02-2007, 07:42 PM
The safest Richdel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve. Dig that puppy up and put a DV in it's place.
Service call today leaking heads.....two zones leaking at the heads...What do you know it was Dv-100's...pulled the tops and what did I see the classic dv cracked body, I will be replacing two dv-100's on Monday and I will snap a few pic's .... IMO this is the worst type of failure on a valve which is a cracked body...

Mike Leary
11-02-2007, 08:04 PM
Service call today leaking heads.....two zones leaking at the heads...What do you know it was Dv-100's...pulled the tops and what did I see the classic dv cracked body, I will be replacing two dv-100's on Monday and I will snap a few pic's .... IMO this is the worst type of failure on a valve which is a cracked body...

It flat out IS the worst failure....we've never used DVs..any clue how they
crack? Screwing the m.p.t.s in too far?..you don't have freeze there.......
bad casting? Let us know.

londonrain
11-02-2007, 08:32 PM
It flat out IS the worst failure....we've never used DVs..any clue how they
crack? Screwing the m.p.t.s in too far?..you don't have freeze there.......
bad casting? Let us know.no freezing, the inlet MA is so loose I can turn the valve with my hand, I see slip Dv's with cracked bodies also...

Mike Leary
11-02-2007, 08:42 PM
no freezing, the inlet MA is so loose I can turn the valve with my hand, I see slip Dv's with cracked bodies also...

How weird, RB valves are famous for slow open/close, could the DV be
different?

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-03-2007, 08:57 AM
Do we ever get an answer to the mystery h2o inside the VB?

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-03-2007, 09:07 AM
Service call today leaking heads.....two zones leaking at the heads...What do you know it was Dv-100's...pulled the tops and what did I see the classic dv cracked body, I will be replacing two dv-100's on Monday and I will snap a few pic's .... IMO this is the worst type of failure on a valve which is a cracked body...

I agree with you on the IMO. I think it has something to do with their plastic. The early PE valves (15-20 years ago) had a plastic bleed for manual turn on. On one job over a two year period the bleed was cracking at the base right before the threads. Ended up removing all the bleeds on PE valves and replacing with a stainless steel bolt. What ticked me off was that the supply house and RB denied a problem existed. Then I noticed they started putting an o ring under the bleed screw. Slow opening and closing is irrelevant. They all slam shut in the last millisecond. I think their resin type does not take shock very well. Like you say I've never had a body crack on a 205. I've had the WM (plastic) split at the bottom of the body.

Kiril
11-03-2007, 09:33 AM
Also agree on the cracked body being the worse failure, especially when dealing with manifolds that were built without considering the potential for a cracked body.

Dirty Water
11-03-2007, 12:48 PM
Judging by the angle of the valve in the valvebox, I'm going to go with a cracked male adapter on the outlet side of the valve.

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 02:22 PM
Repeat:

The safest Richel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve. Dig it up and replace it.

I have never seen a DV with a cracked body. We have installed over 30K of those valves, never a cracked body. Most likely a poor winterization procedure or overtightening of the male adapter.

londonrain
11-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Repeat:

The safest Richel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve. Dig it up and replace it.

I have never seen a DV with a cracked body. We have installed over 30K of those valves, never a cracked body. Most likely a poor winterization procedure or overtightening of the male adapter. I repeat we dont have freezes here and I have seen dv slips with cracked bodies...I guess you dont do enough service to see the type of failures I see..I will also repeat that I have never seen a 205 with a cracked body ........ I will also take a video just to show that it is not from over tightening the MA, just so I can prove you wrong with all this Rain Bird is the greatest junk you talk..... only thing worth anything is the 1800 series spray head...that is fact..check back on Monday for the video....

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 02:34 PM
Seen any Richdel cracked bodies? If I ever considered the Richdel design prone to cracking, I'd never build a manifold like this. I only saw the bonnet rings crack on the original Richdel jartop, but they corrected that in short order.http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/6049/eightvalvemanifold23fz.jpg

londonrain
11-03-2007, 02:36 PM
seen any Richdel cracked bodies?
only the older 2400's

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 02:48 PM
I repeat we dont have freezes here and I have seen dv slips with cracked bodies...I guess you dont do enough service to see the type of failures I see..I will also repeat that I have never seen a 205 with a cracked body ........ I will also take a video just to show that it is not from over tightening the MA, just so I can prove you wrong with all this Rain Bird is the greatest junk you talk..... only thing worth anything is the 1800 series spray head...that is fact..check back on Monday for the video....

I use all Rain Bird and have very few issues - never any valve issues, so my "junk talk" is justified in my mind.

I do plenty of service work, which is the basis of the statement the only safe Richdel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve.

The only Rain Bird product worth anything is the 1800? Come on, you don't really believe that do you? What fact do you have to back that up? How is it that RB is the largest irrigation mfg. company in the world today if 1800's are the only good product they make?

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-03-2007, 02:56 PM
I use all Rain Bird and have very few issues - never any valve issues, so my "junk talk" is justified in my mind.

I do plenty of service work, which is the basis of the statement the only safe Richdel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve.

The only Rain Bird product worth anything is the 1800? Come on, you don't really believe that do you? What fact do you have to back that up? How is it that RB is the largest irrigation mfg. company in the world today if 1800's are the only good product they make?

Lets not rehash this argument again RT.

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 02:57 PM
We aren't drinking the Rainbird koolaid when we praise the 1800 popups. I'll praise the R-50 while I'm at it, as a contender for most reliable (no sandy water, please) rotor head. Oh wait, they discontinued it. Smooth move, RB

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 03:02 PM
We aren't drinking the Rainbird koolaid when we praise the 1800 popups. I'll praise the R-50 while I'm at it, as a contender for most reliable (no sandy water, please) rotor head. Oh wait, they discontinued it. Smooth move, RB

I agree, that was a stupid move. Just stating my opinion here - I'm not the hostile poster.

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 03:03 PM
Lets not rehash this argument again RT.

Sorry, just stating the facts that are always requested here. Plus it is kind of fun to get you Old Timers all fired up.

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 03:05 PM
All 'company praise' is subject to doubt and scrutiny. No one company makes the best of everything. All-one-brand installers are not doing the best possible work.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-03-2007, 03:05 PM
Sorry, just stating the facts that are always requested here. Plus it is kind of fun to get you Old Timers all fired up.

Trashing the 205 isn't how to do it. Just ruins your credibility since we see a valve that has been around for 25 years.

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 03:08 PM
Trashing the 205 isn't how to do it. Just ruins your credibility since we see a valve that has been around for 25 years.Thirty-five years plus, and counting.

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Trashing the 205 isn't how to do it. Just ruins your credibility since we see a valve that has been around for 25 years.

Much like LR's claims of the DV, I have had nothing but bad luck with Richdel/Irritrol valves. Only speaking from past experience.

londonrain
11-03-2007, 03:10 PM
I use all Rain Bird and have very few issues - never any valve issues, so my "junk talk" is justified in my mind.

I do plenty of service work, which is the basis of the statement the only safe Richdel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve.

The only Rain Bird product worth anything is the 1800? Come on, you don't really believe that do you? What fact do you have to back that up? How is it that RB is the largest irrigation mfg. company in the world today if 1800's are the only good product they make?
Tell me what fails on a 205?
ok I don't use dv100's because of cracked bodies...video coming on Monday.
only use the 5000's /5004's on select commercial jobs and only if I am replacing a 5000 or 5004.
Don't use 5000's on residential installs because the last 2 cases I purchased I returned 2 5000's and 1 5004 because the failed out of the case.(SEE ATTACHED - LINE ITEMS 8 & 9...
Wont install anymore ESP-M's modular controller because of bad soldering and the MV error.
T-birds..enough said
Older esp's buttons quit working....
http://webpages.charter.net/nixdiecast/invoice.jpg

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 03:12 PM
Tell me what fails on a 205?
ok I don't use dv100's because of cracked bodies...video coming on Monday.
only use the 5000's /5004's on select commercial jobs and only if I am replacing a 5000 or 5004.
Don't use 5000's on residential installs because the last 2 cases I purchased I returned 2 5000's and 1 5004 because the failed out of the case.(SEE ATTACHED - LINE ITEMS 8 & 9...
Wont install anymore ESP-M's modular controller because of bad soldering and the MV error.
T-birds..enough said
Older esp's buttons quit working....
http://webpages.charter.net/nixdiecast/invoice.jpg

Most often diaphragm failure, second is cracked bonnets. If the valve leaks, it comes out of the ground.

londonrain
11-03-2007, 03:13 PM
Much like LR's claims of the DV, I have had nothing but bad luck with Richdel/Irritrol valves. Only speaking from past experience.Stay tuned for video.....

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 03:19 PM
Most often diaphragm failure, second is cracked bonnets. If the valve leaks, it comes out of the ground.If you placed a genuine location in your profile, that would provide some context to your comments on quality. From the Northeast, I can provide little insight on all-PVC systems with slip valves. I had more Richdel gripes with their antisyphon valves than their globe valves, and I expect temperature swings and exposure figured into it. But the valve bodies remain intact, and the valves remain repairable to this day. It's still quicker to replace a diaphragm than to cut in a new valve.

londonrain
11-03-2007, 03:21 PM
Most often diaphragm failure, second is cracked bonnets. If the valve leaks, it comes out of the ground.
I have never seen a 205 top crack ever...you must be referring to the 2400's series or a discontinued hr-1 not a 205....... Up until toro purchased irritol I have seen very little problem with a 205. When toro made changes to the diaphragms for low flow applications then that is the only problem know to date and that was corrected quickly. Parts are interchangeable from valves we installed 25 years under the nelson brand name(green valve)......

Rotor_Tool
11-03-2007, 03:24 PM
If you placed a genuine location in your profile, that would provide some context to your comments on quality. From the Northeast, I can provide little insight on all-PVC systems with slip valves. I had more Richdel gripes with their antisyphon valves than their globe valves, and I expect temperature swings and exposure figured into it. But the valve bodies remain intact, and the valves remain repairable to this day. It's still quicker to replace a diaphragm than to cut in a new valve.

Good point, but I do not carry repair parts for these valve with me. So, in the time it takes for me to source one, I can have the valve cut out and replaced with a new valve I will have repair parts for.

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 03:29 PM
I have never seen a 205 top crack ever...you must be referring to the 2400's series or a discontinued hr-1 not a 205....... Up until toro purchased irritol I have seen very little problem with a 205. When toro made changes to the diaphragms for low flow applications then that is the only problem know to date and that was corrected quickly. Parts are interchangeable from valves we installed 25 years under the nelson brand name(green valve)......Hardie dinked around with the antisyphon valve, and some problems occurred. And I have seen a few of the ASV bonnets get a tiny hairline crack around the bleed screw. Valve still works, but has a drip. I forget whether that happened with Richdel or Hardie ownership. No such cracks on buried flow-control 205's that I've seen.

Kiril
11-03-2007, 03:57 PM
Seen any Richdel cracked bodies? If I ever considered the Richdel design prone to cracking, I'd never build a manifold like this. I only saw the bonnet rings crack on the original Richdel jartop, but they corrected that in short order.

I've only replaced 1 cracked bonnet on a Richdel ASV, no bodies EVER, and Richdel/Irritrol is by far the predominate valve manufacturer used in my region.

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 04:09 PM
Good point, but I do not carry repair parts for these valve with me. So, in the time it takes for me to source one, I can have the valve cut out and replaced with a new valve I will have repair parts for.Parts for the Richdel designs are cheap enough, and don't take up too much room. I don't install Toro valves, but I can replace a diaphragm in one, Flo-Pro excepted. Same with other valves. No compelling reason, other than cheapness, to not be able to repair the popular makes.

irrig8r
11-03-2007, 04:17 PM
All 'company praise' is subject to doubt and scrutiny. No one company makes the best of everything. All-one-brand installers are not doing the best possible work.

You are absolutely right.

irrig8r
11-03-2007, 04:24 PM
Parts for the Richdel designs are cheap enough, and don't take up too much room. I don't install Toro valves, but I can replace a diaphragm in one, Flo-Pro excepted. Same with other valves. No compelling reason, other than cheapness, to not be able to repair the popular makes.

Believe it or not I have Flo-Pro valves at my house. Toro sent me a bag of redesigned diaphragms a few years ago, and replacement solenoids with wire leads before that, but other than those, never had a problem. BTW, changing out a diaphragm on that valve was about the fastest ever.

hoskm01
11-05-2007, 11:54 AM
Sorry for the delayed update since the original post.... Had a wedding in the backyard this weekend and needless to say, that took my time since this fix...

I was at this site two weeks earlier and replaced a 205 in the backyard. I "knew" right away that this was the same. Or so I thought.

http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak1.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak2.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak3.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak4.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak5.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak6.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak7.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak8.jpg
http://www.lawnlogistics.com/leak9.jpg


Glue failure. Valve was great, sept for the solenoid, that'll go soon. Pipe was in decent condition, good enough to be glued back together, fit well. There was no glue or primer remains on the pipe, almost like they thought they were compression fittings:)

Horrible system design... The main goes through the T to the backyard manifold. This leak had to be fixed that night as we just planted Ryegrass in the backyard. Splained to homeowner that a glue failure likely means that many more are soon to come, and the system needs to be rebuilt. Gave a guesstimate on scene for a rebuild and lets just say, It wont happen in a preventative time frame. Well be out there for each repair until the whole thing is new. Whole system will have to be redone as it is all in class pipe, boooooo! We don't play with class on remodels, it all has to go. The system is about 7 years old.

The copper looks normal, a patina is common here on any piece of copper stuck into the ground. It'll last 30 years in that position, should dry out when new manifold is installed.

Kiril
11-05-2007, 01:04 PM
Glue failure.

Wheres the glue? I don't see any glue at all.

Watch out for the red line man. :dizzy:

bobw
11-05-2007, 01:13 PM
Thanks for the update.... how late are you working down there? Lights set up over your work area would indicate "too late" is the correct answer....

hoskm01
11-05-2007, 06:50 PM
Thanks for the update.... how late are you working down there? Lights set up over your work area would indicate "too late" is the correct answer....



It usually would have waited until the next day, but I was slammed with wedding preparations for the weekend and didnt want 50 bucks worth of rye seed going down in a smokey haze as it was 90 all weekend. We are running sprinklers on 6 start times daily currently to bring up the seed.

Mike Leary
11-05-2007, 06:51 PM
It usually would have waited until the next day, but I was slammed with wedding preparations for the weekend and didnt want 50 bucks worth of rye seed going down in a smokey haze as it was 90 all weekend. We are running sprinklers on 6 start times daily currently to bring up the seed.

Oh, I thought you were growing something else. Was it you that got married?

londonrain
11-05-2007, 08:11 PM
Repeat:

The safest Richel/Irritrol valve is a replaced Richdel/Irritrol valve. Dig it up and replace it.
Glad he did not replace the 205......



I have never seen a DV with a cracked body.
Just for you rotor_tool
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=205667

We have installed over 30K of those valves, never a cracked body.

By my calculations that would be about 6 valves a day, 365 days a year for 14 years straight.....:rolleyes:


Most likely a poor winterization procedure or overtightening of the male adapter.

video proof......

Mike Leary
11-05-2007, 08:15 PM
Don't want to arm wrestle with London, he's right..what IS cracking the
damn valves...poor batch/casting/high pressure?:dizzy:

Dirty Water
11-05-2007, 09:32 PM
It usually would have waited until the next day, but I was slammed with wedding preparations for the weekend and didnt want 50 bucks worth of rye seed going down in a smokey haze as it was 90 all weekend. We are running sprinklers on 6 start times daily currently to bring up the seed.

So, you just flexed that fitting back into the tee.

You are braver than me.

I would have replaced the tee entirely. I don't reuse fittings that pushout. EVER.

hoskm01
11-05-2007, 10:55 PM
So, you just flexed that fitting back into the tee.

You are braver than me.

I would have replaced the tee entirely. I don't reuse fittings that pushout. EVER.
Normally I would agree. Given the time of day and integity of the tee and piece of 3/4, this was an accepteable fix. Since, I have talked customer into new manifolds and boxes. Its a start.