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topsites
11-02-2007, 09:09 PM
I'm talking about single stream 40 - 360 degree rotating nozzles that are generally used to irrigate lawns or otherwise large areas, usually sold at Home Depot / Lowe's. I am familiar with Orbit, Hunter, Rainbird, and Toro (for the most part, interchangeable).

Having broken (and replaced) a few of these, it has come to my attention the only part that usually gets broken is the top piece, or the head, the actual nozzle itself... The rest of the body with the spring stem remains intact, however, I can only get the entire $12 riser tube assembly as a replacement.

Does anyone know if anyone sells just the individual top part of the head or the nozzles, where I might find one, and also if they are, as I suspect, replaceable in and of themselves, by repairing the unit.

Because by now I have at least two, one rainbird, and also a Hunter, both with cracked heads...
I would love to rebuild these during idle time and put them in my truck, for the next time I smacks one.

Thanks

londonrain
11-02-2007, 09:18 PM
99% of the time if a head gets hit by a mower then there is already something wrong with the head, which is making it not retract....

Mike Leary
11-02-2007, 09:52 PM
Lots of the cheapo gear drives will not stand a mower hit..screws up the
adjustments forever..I've had the mowers take the tops off I-20s & they
still kept on turning. Worst case for us with mowing & line trimmer boys
have been the Nelson line..piece of junk.

WalkGood
11-02-2007, 11:42 PM
I'm talking about single stream 40 - 360 degree rotating nozzles that are generally used to irrigate lawns or otherwise large areas, usually sold at Home Depot / Lowe's. I am familiar with Orbit, Hunter, Rainbird, and Toro (for the most part, interchangeable).

Having broken (and replaced) a few of these, it has come to my attention the only part that usually gets broken is the top piece, or the head, the actual nozzle itself... The rest of the body with the spring stem remains intact, however, I can only get the entire $12 riser tube assembly as a replacement.

Does anyone know if anyone sells just the individual top part of the head or the nozzles, where I might find one, and also if they are, as I suspect, replaceable in and of themselves, by repairing the unit.

Because by now I have at least two, one rainbird, and also a Hunter, both with cracked heads...
I would love to rebuild these during idle time and put them in my truck, for the next time I smacks one.

Thanks

Even if the remains are working, it will cost you more in time/effort ($$$) than it is worth than if you just unscrew the insides (leaving the body shell) and replace with the insides from a new one.

Unless of course, you're retired and this is on your house and you've got all the time in the world to perform surgery on the head.

topsites
11-03-2007, 12:13 AM
Wow, first off thanks for all the answers, I'm humbled by the informative replies, especially in such short order.

99% of the time if a head gets hit by a mower then there is already something wrong with the head, which is making it not retract....

I understand, I'm not about to hold myself responsible for defective risers, it's been many years since I've replaced any like that.
However if I have a spare on board I could offer to do it for less than a separate visit would cost, but that's another thought.

Now there was one this week that, even if improperly installed (it stuck too far up lol) was also clearly visible and in that sense avoidable. I've known where this one is for over a year now, I saw it coming, but I figured the mower would clear it and it didn't. That to me is like when the traffic light turns yellow and I think I can make it before it turns red, and I don't...

Then there was one that was a neighbor's... There's just no way out of that one, I swung across the property line and clip, defective or not I'm in no mood to contest this mess with someone that's not even my customer.

Those kind :laugh:

Even if the remains are working, it will cost you more in time/effort ($$$) than it is worth than if you just unscrew the insides (leaving the body shell) and replace with the insides from a new one. Unless of course, you're retired and this is on your house and you've got all the time in the world to perform surgery on the head.

No, I am talking about replacing the part that unscrews, still not sure how it works because I haven't been in the mood to take a new one apart... The problem is I'm not buying a new one just for the parts, if I have a whole unit then I replace the whole unit, but when it's always the same part that gets snapped off it is that part I'm interested in (vs. the whole unit).

I could keep the old ones for parts, but it's always the same part that breaks, so no sense in that, I need the part iself.

I'll go visit orbitonline.com next, see what they have.

topsites
11-03-2007, 12:25 AM
Ok I found a picture, it is a perfect representation, this is the exact she-bang I replaced today.
Not true, the pictured one is an Eclipse, I used a Voyager ii, close enough I tell you.

I about have to pull it apart anyhow just to get the settings straight, but it's a simple matter of unscrewing manually the unit, far as I can tell... I did specifically circle the part that clips, it seems that would come apart from the center pole but if not then I would be willing to buy the entire center pole. And yes, sometimes the part that the blue arrow points to also gets ruined but all they sell is that whole unit as pictured...

Is this the only thing they sell or are individual parts available?
I would think it's a 5-minute thing to replace what is actually broken, and I would think it's cheaper that way?
At $12 a unit they ought to sell the individual 2-3 or 4 parts that make it up :laugh:

WalkGood
11-03-2007, 12:43 AM
Ok I found a picture, it is a perfect representation, this is the exact she-bang I replaced today.
Not true, the pictured one is an Eclipse, I used a Voyager ii, close enough I tell you.

I about have to pull it apart anyhow just to get the settings straight, but it's a simple matter of unscrewing manually the unit, far as I can tell... I did specifically circle the part that clips, it seems that would come apart from the center pole but if not then I would be willing to buy the entire center pole. And yes, sometimes the part that the blue arrow points to also gets ruined but all they sell is that whole unit as pictured...

Is this the only thing they sell or are individual parts available?
I would think it's a 5-minute thing to replace what is actually broken, and I would think it's cheaper that way?
At $12 a unit they ought to sell the individual 2-3 or 4 parts that make it up :laugh:

Yep, unscrew where that blue arrow is pointing. Pull it out, and replace with a new one, leave a bill (maybe get paid too) and go on your way.

Some manufacturers might sell the individual inside parts like wiper seals. It's just not worth it to futz with it that way.

topsites
11-03-2007, 12:44 AM
Yep, unscrew where that blue arrow is pointing. Pull it out, and replace with a new one, leave a bill (maybe get paid too) and go on your way.

Some manufacturers might sell the individual inside parts like wiper seals. It's just not worth it to futz with it that way.

Ohhhh ok that does help, saves me from digging out the hole and replacing the whole unit.


Hmmm, I'm going to check out the Toro units at 3.67 each tomorrow as well, if it's comparable and not a shrub waterer...
For that to work I'll also need access to someone's system for initial testing and comparison, I think I can arrange that much.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100082788&N=500016+90401&marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125

WalkGood
11-03-2007, 01:06 AM
Ohhhh ok that does help, saves me from digging out the hole and replacing the whole unit.


Hmmm, I'm going to check out the Toro units at 3.67 each tomorrow as well, if it's comparable and not a shrub waterer...
For that to work I'll also need access to someone's system for initial testing and comparison, I think I can arrange that much.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100082788&N=500016+90401&marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125


That is a spray head. :nono: :nono: You asked about rotary gear stream heads. Hmmmmmmm..... pardon me but are you very new to irrigation?

topsites
11-03-2007, 02:35 AM
That is a spray head. :nono: :nono: You asked about rotary gear stream heads. Hmmmmmmm..... pardon me but are you very new to irrigation?

I'm mostly into lawn cutting, this issue has come up several times over the years due to clipped heads. No, I don't plan on getting into irrigation, I might replace a head here or there, mostly due to mower-related issues, that's about it... But at $35-45 a cut and $12 a head, it's an irritating cost even when it doesn't happen much.

But this is reasonable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280169470335&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=280169581201&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-03-2007, 06:33 AM
I'm glad that was you handling this thread WalkGood. I'd have blown an o-ring. I redo so much lawn maintenance repair work and ask myself WTF were they thinking. I think Topsites has done us a great service and shown the mind of a landscape maintenance person at work.

Kiril
11-03-2007, 08:41 AM
I'm glad that was you handling this thread WalkGood. I'd have blown an o-ring. I redo so much lawn maintenance repair work and ask myself WTF were they thinking. I think Topsites has done us a great service and shown the mind of a landscape maintenance person at work.

Ditto. Don't think your can buy some Orbit POS at HD and stuff it into a body of a different manufacturers sprinkler. Some parts are interchangeable between manufacturers (nozzles mostly), some are not.

londonrain
11-03-2007, 09:23 AM
I'm mostly into lawn cutting, this issue has come up several times over the years due to clipped heads. No, I don't plan on getting into irrigation, I might replace a head here or there, mostly due to mower-related issues, that's about it... But at $35-45 a cut and $12 a head, it's an irritating cost even when it doesn't happen much.

But this is reasonable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280169470335&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=280169581201&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

If you hit a head with a mower you should not be responsible for the repair or repair cost. Tell the customer that either it was improperly installed and not at grade. Or their is a problem with the head and it did not retract and that is why you hit the head. If they have a problem with that statement tell them to visit us at lawnsite under irrigation and we will set them straight .....

topsites
11-03-2007, 09:45 AM
If you hit a head with a mower you should not be responsible for the repair or repair cost. Tell the customer that either it was improperly installed and not at grade. Or their is a problem with the head and it did not retract and that is why you hit the head. If they have a problem with that statement tell them to visit us at lawnsite under irrigation and we will set them straight .....

You'll first want to read the unusual situations I speak of, now I'm not talking about the head that failed to recede, but then again maybe I am. We can argue about the location and the mechanical failures all day long, that's not really the gist of it.

See the irrigation guy charges 50 bucks, a plumber is even worse... Meanwhile I'm right there when it happens, who would be your contractor of choice the one or two times a year the odd head clips? And I'm talking once or twice for my whole customer base, if I break 3-4 that might be closer but even a half dozen isn't so bad at 7.50 a head that's 50 bucks for the year in parts and it's over.

I stick 3-4 or 5-6 of these things in my truck and when I break one I take care of it, blam, it is done. I doubt it matters much to the customer who replaces it, doesn't really matter to me either, but why make an extra trip out of it over one lousy gear head, why use 2 separate contractors to screw in one light bulb? Because, lol, that's all this is, everyone creating all this work over a light bulb.

It's not even about lowballing irrigation companies out of existence, I'm not about to try and compete with replacing individual heads while making trips to houses over one... To me it's more about the high cost of this nonsense right when it happens, also the waste of time and fuel, not so much who's fault, I am sure the customer wouldn't mind coughing up an extra 15-20 bucks per head (as compared to 50 or diy) but whatever, I'm right there, it wouldn't take but 5 minutes to take care of it.

Wet_Boots
11-03-2007, 09:47 AM
Of course, if you're using a 48 on a lumpy lawn, and all but scalping the grass in spots, the blame goes to the lawncutter for using the wrong equipment for the job.

(by the way, you bust one of the heads on my installs, and you are out time and material (my time, and my material) at full price, so figure your costs as beating the heck out of a hundred-plus per head)

londonrain
11-03-2007, 10:12 AM
You'll first want to read the unusual situations I speak of, now I'm not talking about the head that failed to recede, but then again maybe I am. We can argue about the location and the mechanical failures all day long, that's not really the gist of it.

See the irrigation guy charges 50 bucks, a plumber is even worse... Meanwhile I'm right there when it happens, who would be your contractor of choice the one or two times a year the odd head clips? And I'm talking once or twice for my whole customer base, if I break 3-4 that might be closer but even a half dozen isn't so bad at 7.50 a head that's 50 bucks for the year in parts and it's over.

I stick 3-4 or 5-6 of these things in my truck and when I break one I take care of it, blam, it is done. I doubt it matters much to the customer who replaces it, doesn't really matter to me either, but why make an extra trip out of it over one lousy gear head, why use 2 separate contractors to screw in one light bulb? Because, lol, that's all this is, everyone creating all this work over a light bulb.

It's not even about lowballing irrigation companies out of existence, I'm not about to try and compete with replacing individual heads while making trips to houses over one... To me it's more about the high cost of this nonsense right when it happens, also the waste of time and fuel, not so much who's fault, I am sure the customer wouldn't mind coughing up an extra 15-20 bucks per head (as compared to 50 or diy) but whatever, I'm right there, it wouldn't take but 5 minutes to take care of it.
Buddy I'm on your side with this....
However it is a little more than just screwing in a head..
I installed a 20 zone $10,000 system few years back with Hunter I-20 ultra Stainless Steel heads and 1800 Prs-sam or prs heads depending on the application. On one of my last visits to the site I noticed someone(the grass cutter) had replaced a few heads. One was a regular 1804 without a prs-sam with the wrong nozzle, thus this was causing a wet spot from the lowend drainage. So I ended up replacing them with the correct heads... So it is just a little more that screwing in a head, it is more like screwing in the correct type of head for the correct application..

londonrain
11-03-2007, 10:37 AM
Kind of like cutting grass...would I cut my Bermuda grass at 6" and my fescue at 1"?

bobw
11-03-2007, 11:10 AM
Topsites - I understand exactly where you are coming from. You are cutting the lawn and for some reason or another a head gets chopped. You just want to replace it and move on rather than create issues and costs for your customer (or his neighbor).

So... I'd suggest you carry a couple of different models/manufacturers with you and replace the head with exactly what got broken, find the broken nozzle top and remove the nozzle (or better yet, see what size it was) and put the right nozzle in the new head. If you have a couple different manufacturers (pay attention to your yards, you'll see what brands are in the ground), you should still be able to unscrew the topcap and replace the innards if you haven't chopped it down too far.

If you are going to replace the heads, you have a responsibility to do it right and with quality parts.

Another option that you might have is to find an irrigation contractor near you and strike a deal with him to do the replacements for you. In a lot of ways, it is good for you to know people in aligned trades so that you can get/give recommendations for each other.

YardPro
11-03-2007, 12:08 PM
topsites...

the stuff from home depot and lowes is junk.

also you need to make sure you match what you replace with what you broke. the most important thing is nozzle size. you cannot replace a 5gpm head with a 1.5 gpm head and ave proper coverage, or vice versa.

Mike Leary
11-03-2007, 04:46 PM
O.k., O.k., I can't handle this anymore, you guys have such a jacked around
business model, I can't believe it. Leary's law: you show, mow, blow & go.
Hit a head? No blame, flag it, tell me where it is (turf/planting), I know what
heads are in each job..service truck has them in stock, no waiting, will be over this aft. Done. If there is no co operation between these very different
trades, the client is getting ripped blind while you lawn guys put in stuff that
was not made for the application & causes us to rip it out again!:dizzy: :hammerhead:

Mike Leary
11-03-2007, 07:27 PM
See the irrigation guy charges 50 bucks, a plumber is even worse...

Jezz, it's just Sat. & the dumbest quote of the week award goes to.:rolleyes:

topsites
11-03-2007, 08:48 PM
I did want to thank the few folks who assisted me with helpful information, even thou I ended up finding the discount supplies I was looking for myself and that was really all I wanted, but help is help and I am thankful for that.

As for the rest, geez all I'm asking is a simple question and it's the same thing all over again... One step away from telling me I first need a business license and insurance, the REASON I threw out those figures and names even IF I wasn't 100% sure what I was talking about is to avoid that exact farking problem! I hate being treated like an idiot, arguing with you folks is like me asking you not to tear into my lawn a mere week after it's been core aerated and seeded because you don't got the sense either, but how much good does that ever do when you're also worried about the bottom line and since you're there now by GOD you're installing the system and the devil may care, as just one example.

Maybe $50 is too cheap? Who knows, who cares, it's not my price to quote nor do I care what you charge to replace it, but I know it's not cheap and YES people DO call plumbers to have it done as well. Do NOT make the mistake of assuming that since you installed it they will keep you forever.

So we may interfere with each other in ways, but until the day I install complete and sub-standard systems for the same price you are charging I really am not concerned with your issues any more than you evidently are with mine, nor am I concerned if it's not the exact same 47pt.5.64 model serial # klhlw6mbws that you used, I flat don't care so long the customer is pleased with it.

An Orbit Voyager II IS a quality gear head, like it or not this 5 year warranty nozzle is The #1 selling gear-drive sprinkler with total disregard to class this thing is number 1. Dependable, easy to adjust with a quiet and smooth rotating spray is ideal for watering large grass areas 25 ft. to 40 ft. radius. Let's see: Orbit, voyager, eclipse... Hmmm, all this space-related names for their stuff, do you know what that means?
I'll give you a hint: More than a few LARGE scale manufacturers who build supplies on assembly lines use this system.
Likely, for all I know Ford does, and granted I think Bmw's are way better but you don't see me telling you to trash yours.

No, one size won't fit all, but it is really rare I clip a brush riser, get my drift?
Yeah, all I need is a gear sprinkler, those really are, 99% of the time, the only kind that are out where I work.

And omg I am ever so sorry that 1 or 2 of your beautiful 50-some risers got replaced with something you don't like.
It still beats you not having even attempted to reseed the areas of my lawn you tore up, at least I pretend to care.
so there, and damn lol

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Dear Topsites,
I hope your passion for maintaining your customers landscapes matches our passion for maintaining their irrigation systems. You are worthy of an ORBIT VOYAGER.
Sincerely,
Fimco

topsites
11-03-2007, 09:00 PM
Dear Topsites,
I hope your passion for maintaining your customers landscapes matches our passion for maintaining their irrigation systems. You are worthy of an ORBIT VOYAGER.
Sincerely,
Fimco

Well alright, I'm not sure if that's a compliment or a snide little insult, but I can accept it either way, now if it puddles up rest assured I'll most likely be the FIRST contractor to find out about it, likely when I get the mower stuck next visit. Then I'll be right back here asking the very next stupid noob question number 2, I appreciate folks trying to save me the headaches but I'm a hands-on kind of guy, all this stuff I will just have to learn, yes, the hard way.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things, I know you don't just unscrew old and screw in new because that's how dirt gets in the pipes, you really need to dig the hole out first, and so on, and so forth. But for the time being, let it be.

londonrain
11-03-2007, 09:17 PM
Example for topsites: My $699.99, Murray 10.5hp, twin blade, 38" rider will do just as good of a job as your riding mowers....since it is the number #1 selling mower in the world....

Dirty Water
11-03-2007, 09:37 PM
I don't know if you guys get out of the irrigation forum much, but topsites spouts his own special brand of crazy in every forum. Just ignore him.

Mike Leary
11-03-2007, 09:53 PM
I don't know if you guys get out of the irrigation forum much, but topsites spouts his own special brand of crazy in every forum. Just ignore him.

Duly noted....pretty much figured the same.:dizzy:

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 04:36 AM
I don't know if you guys get out of the irrigation forum much, but topsites spouts his own special brand of crazy in every forum. Just ignore him.

The dudes got 8,000+ posts. I've seen other posters with their favorite topsitism quotes. I thought he had some kind of cult following among lawn maintenance types.

jerryrwm
11-04-2007, 01:09 PM
I don't know if you guys get out of the irrigation forum much, but topsites spouts his own special brand of crazy in every forum. Just ignore him.
Wonder if he was involved in any kind of stagnant pressure?

Lazer_Z
11-04-2007, 01:37 PM
The dudes got 8,000+ posts. I've seen other posters with their favorite topsitism quotes. I thought he had some kind of cult following among lawn maintenance types.:laugh: :laugh:
Hardly the case, as DW stated he spouts his own special brand of crazy in every forum. 99% of the time I skip his post because #1 he's way,way,way off topic/course or #2 I get a headache reading his posts, like right now :hammerhead:

Rob

Rotor_Tool
11-04-2007, 01:41 PM
Example for topsites: My $699.99, Murray 10.5hp, twin blade, 38" rider will do just as good of a job as your riding mowers....since it is the number #1 selling mower in the world....

You beat me to that one. Except I was going Wheel Horse...

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 03:05 PM
:laugh: :laugh:
Hardly the case, as DW stated he spouts his own special brand of crazy in every forum. 99% of the time I skip his post because #1 he's way,way,way off topic/course or #2 I get a headache reading his posts, like right now :hammerhead:

Rob

Have to admit I was getting tired head reading his stuff.

Mike Leary
11-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Have to admit I was getting tired head reading his stuff.

Otta be a law about the lawn genius posting in this forum.

ed2hess
11-04-2007, 06:07 PM
Boy not only does he have a lot of post but each of his post are pretty darn long regardless of the question.

Mike Leary
11-04-2007, 06:17 PM
Boy not only does he have a lot of post but each of his post are pretty darn long regardless of the question.

Reminds me of a mouth type in a bar I was in years ago..pup was spouting
about zip....old timer looked at him & said, "keep on talkin', cause you sure
make me look good."