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EagleLandscape
11-04-2007, 03:21 PM
I've got a church that has 3 water meters for irrigation.

theyve complained about high water bills, and their plumber said they shut off the backflow and the meter stopped spinning.

i confirmed the problem a few days back, shut off the backflow and the meter stopped spinning.

I forget the gpm on the meter, but it was rather fast. seemed alot faster than just a stuck diaphragm or something.

there are no visible leaks that I can find, and they recently had a new parking lot poured when they added a new building.

how in the word can i find the leak? just wait for the parking lot to collapse?

Wet_Boots
11-04-2007, 03:28 PM
Try blowing air into the system.

grandview (2006)
11-04-2007, 03:29 PM
How much do want to spend? I'm sure there's a US version.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.accuratedetection.com/images/xmic.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.accuratedetection.com/products/xmic.html&h=240&w=240&sz=13&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=oJ6bLTJhSFFAgM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwater%2Bleak%2Bdetector%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 03:39 PM
Might want to consider a leak detection company with the expertise to use the above listed tool. Need to cut the system in half with ball valves to help isolate the area it is in. I've but in 4 ball valves before to help me narrow down a leak that was running into a french drain. On small leaks I sometimes add a master valve to get around the problem if I can't find it without a lot of cost.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 03:41 PM
Try blowing air into the system.

Blowing air into the system is so foreign to us. I'm not sure 99% of irrigators could use a compressor here. (myself included)

Wet_Boots
11-04-2007, 03:44 PM
Air is strictly a crapshoot, but you sometimes can hear a leak that doesn't show itself with water. And of course, we already have the compressor.

Mike Leary
11-04-2007, 03:51 PM
Air + water mite work, we've found leaks that way..set the compressor to
"max"..you want to blow it out of the ground. Check all valve boxes, make
sure you know which main is leaking..could have a rock in the valve too.
You can put your hand (or a stethoscope) on the valves & feel/hear the flow.
Make sure the valves are tite & no leaks around the area exist. "Witching"
works if you can find someone who has a "no cure, no charge" clause.
Bottom line would be a master valve so the plants stay healthy whilst you
become detective. Helium injection final cure, invite Peter for that!

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 03:54 PM
I suspect if three meters are feeding it then we've got a looped main.

Mike Leary
11-04-2007, 04:09 PM
As built would be handy...start tracking. Smart cookies who use looped mains have isolation ball valves.

EagleLandscape
11-04-2007, 06:45 PM
No, its not looped. The site has 3 meters, only reason I noted that was to show how large it was. this leaking meter was from the original church building, two new ones were added when they built a new chapel.

We'll probably have to go the route a leak detection with a concrete saw / mini ex or something i'm sure. kinda stinks since it's brand new construction. we'll see tuesday.

Mike Leary
11-04-2007, 07:13 PM
No, its not looped. The site has 3 meters, only reason I noted that was to show how large it was. this leaking meter was from the original church building, two new ones were added when they built a new chapel.

Where did they tap into main for new mainline extensions..there's the spot
to look for leak.

Kiril
11-04-2007, 07:46 PM
Check this out.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7095222.html

Also, if you think it might be in the mainline, you could push one of the those camera's on a snake that some plumbers use to "see" the leak.

EagleLandscape
11-04-2007, 07:59 PM
they didnt tap in.
one meter, and one mainline

across the parking lot, 2 meters on one mainline.

its the mainline that has one meter that is leaking. ill just isolate it every so often and narrow it down from what my father is telling me. or like what peter was saying, put ball valves in every so often.

Mike Leary
11-04-2007, 08:19 PM
narrow it down from what my father is telling me. or like what peter was saying, put ball valves in every so often.

Yep......trust the old timers.

londonrain
11-04-2007, 08:27 PM
We maintain a system that leaks 500 gallons a day and no sign of the leak or leaks.
The system has a 2" main that is 3ft underground and the only option I have is a master valve.

EagleLandscape
11-04-2007, 08:36 PM
Atleast that mainline isnt located in California where was is something like 25 bucks a 1000 gallons.

I think we're around 2 bucks per thousand here.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 09:02 PM
We maintain a system that leaks 500 gallons a day and no sign of the leak or leaks.
The system has a 2" main that is 3ft underground and the only option I have is a master valve.

WOWWW>>>>>

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-04-2007, 09:04 PM
Atleast that mainline isnt located in California where was is something like 25 bucks a 1000 gallons.

I think we're around 2 bucks per thousand here.

What is yours leaking John? I know you forgot the gpm. find out and a master valve may be the most cost effective route. Not the best just the most cost effective.

WalkGood
11-05-2007, 12:32 AM
I forget the gpm on the meter, but it was rather fast. seemed alot faster than just a stuck diaphragm or something.

there are no visible leaks that I can find, and they recently had a new parking lot poured when they added a new building.

how in the word can i find the leak? just wait for the parking lot to collapse?

Any old plans, drawings, some old-timers that could pinpoint an old well or cesspool?

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-05-2007, 05:38 AM
Any old plans, drawings, some old-timers that could pinpoint an old well or cesspool?

Different thought processes here. lots of old wells and cesspools where you are walkgood? I don't think the odds are very high of it being an old well or cesspool here. But hey always a chance for a first. i had a leak under a driveway in which we determined by putting ball valves on the entry point and exit point of the pipe to the driveway. Due to the logistics of getting a wire to a MV by the DCA we installed the MV way downstream as close to the controller as possible but before the leak. I've also in the past used an ADD-A-ZONE to free up a wire from an existing valve to allow to be used as a MV wire. Best solution as always is to find the leak and repair it. If it is under the driveway it will eventually create problems.

EagleLandscape
11-05-2007, 07:09 AM
I want to say nearly 5gpm, but that could just be an embarrasing laughing number. But depending on how the meter was set up, I'll have to check that number again. it was bad though :-\

WalkGood
11-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Different thought processes here. lots of old wells and cesspools where you are walkgood? I don't think the odds are very high of it being an old well or cesspool here. But hey always a chance for a first. i had a leak under a driveway in which we determined by putting ball valves on the entry point and exit point of the pipe to the driveway. Due to the logistics of getting a wire to a MV by the DCA we installed the MV way downstream as close to the controller as possible but before the leak. I've also in the past used an ADD-A-ZONE to free up a wire from an existing valve to allow to be used as a MV wire. Best solution as always is to find the leak and repair it. If it is under the driveway it will eventually create problems.

Lots of areas here, especially on the south shore the properties have individual cesspools for sewage. Water table is too shallow for a proper municipal sewage system.

As a result, also many drywells for washer machine dishcharge.

Irrigation leaks can fill these with no detection at the surface.

Also old water wells can absorb leaks. Every now and then you can read NATIONALLY that someone (usually a child) falls into an old water well that was just covered up with wood which rotted.

I've seen asphalt parking lots lift up and float from hidden irrigation leaks. And the leak as you know doesn't HAVE to be very close to that spot. Water will travel under asphalt/cement for quite a distance sometimes before making the surface if ever.