quick work, price, and customers

[NateinAtl]

I need some help!! This morning I did an out of season aeration job for this man. We talked on the phone the other day, and agreed upon a price, $50 which is my minimum.<p>When I got to the job, he was gone to work, but his wife watched me do the job. After completion, she went off on a hissy fit. Unhappy that they were paying me for only about 15 minutes of actual labor.(I was there for a total of 50 minutes due to complications with my aerator) I asked her if their was a problem with my work. There wasn't. Just the fact that i was there for only a short amount of time. I explained that i have a lot of costs that she needs to factor in plus the fact that her husband and I agreed on a price for his lawn to be aerated, not for the time I planned on being there. She wouldn't listen to me. Just kept repeating that I was being paid &quot;$50 for 5 minutes of work&quot;--her words.<p>I left without getting through to her. It really bothers me that either I wasn't explaining myself or that she wouldn't listen.<p>I called her husband at work. He chuckled and told me he already heard from his wife about our exchange. He told me that he explained that &quot;if this guy did a satisfactory job, that is what I paid him to do. It's OK that he bought fast equipmetnt to aerate the lawn.&quot;<p>That made me feel much better, but I am still upset that I had words with this lady. <p>How do you guys handle these situations? What else could I have said? With technology advances, we are seeing lawn care becoming much more efficient than it has been. And I for one don't want to do any extra work or spend any extra time on a property than I have to.<p>They just started with ChemLawn. I would love to here her reaction when they spend 3 minutes on her lawn and charge her $35 bucks.<p>By the way, did I mention that she lives in a $500,000 home in an expensive Country Club?<p>Please help me!!

[bdemir]

Nate,<br>I once trimmed bushes for a lady and she went inside and i had the $35 job done in 8 minutes. She was speechless. Then she told me to do another thing while i was at it and i said ok then she came out and said trimm those to you only worked for 5 minutes only. Then i told her look lady i told you a price you told me what you want done and i did it and then some. She insisted for me to do more. So i said fine but it will cost you 50 . Then she said well i was going to pay you that anyways. She had a baby on the way but she was rude as can be. she had me cut down the fallen limbs into pieces and she said i shouold take them away too. i tried to explain to her that i cant haul away wood for nothing but she just kept insisting like she was getting a bad deal. Anyways after doing all this work she made me take out her garbage too and i demanded the money and she insisted i put the wood in a pile.I did that too. then she said i should take them away. This is when i stood my ground and blew up i told her shes to get my money for what i have done (and then some) and pay me what she promised to freagin pay. Next time when they come out and are startled at what you did just look at them in the eyes and say you will do no more and no less and need to get paid NOW! She paid me and said thank you in a bad way and i left there felling like very pissed off like i had been totally screwed by a pregnant lady. I think next time you tell them up front and when you meet resistance just stand your ground and be firm dont compromise because some people will treat you how ever they think THEY should. Sorry if i sound angry but i am still mad about that lady.

[Retro67]

My best customers are at work while I am working. I think you can sometimes run into problems with people that have too much free time on their hands. They will want to talk, etc. I am friendly, will wave, smile, grab the paper/garbage cans, whatever, but talking is one thing I don't get paid to do. I learned this when I was a lawn-boy in junior high. &lt;p&gt;I had a customer that was challenged, so to speak. She always wanted to hang out and talk and do everything, but let me do my work. I felt bad for her plight, but eventually, stopped working for her.&lt;p&gt;Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I wouldn't discuss issues related to the services, I do. I just can't listen to the Story about Aunt Glady's hip replacement surgery when there is money to be made.&lt;p&gt; I would not take it personally that this gal took offense to your charges. Some people just don't realize how good they have it. That price is a reasonable price for a minimum on aeration. It sounds like to me, she has it in her head you were pushing a $99.99 piece of equipment. The way I see it, it's not really your fault, and not really hers.&lt;p&gt;John

[Lazer]

I don't think it's wise to engage these customers. Just shake your head and say &quot;Oh, I know!&quot; and &quot;I hear ya&quot;. It really doesn't matter. They guy'll write the check and you can forget about it. <p>Send them a proposal for next year.<p>

[Charles]

This is the exact reason that I charge most of the time by the hour when possible. Especially if the customer is there while you are doing the job. THat why most welders will not jump on the job when you bring it in. They don't want you to keep up with the time it takes them to do the job. They want you to leave and come back. But since y'all did give a job price. I would have stuck to that price and NOT have done any extra work. Just held my hand out and waited her out. An agreement is an agreement and she was taking advantage of you. I tell people they will come out better if they pay me by the hour. I give them a choice up front. Because I work FAST. So If i do give them a job price and get it done quick. I can remind them of that fact. AND THAT I WANT MY MONEY. If you do work by the hour tell them that you charge a minimum service charge if the houly comes out to less than you charge just to come to someones house example: $45 service charge. $25 per hour. If you finish at 45$ worth of work you take that. Ifit is less than that you still take that $45 minimum. Communication is the most important thing. When you get half way through let them know how much money they have spent up to that point.<br>

[thelawnguy]

Since it was the husband with whom you made the deal with, all the wife should have got from you is a big stupid grin, plenty of head nodding, and lots of &quot;no habla ingles&quot;...<p>This is why you try to do the job when nobody is home, and especially not on weekends.<p>Bill

[Charles]

Ha ha lawn guy. Or you can tell them you don't have time to argue because you have to report to your probation officer by a certain time:)

[NateinAtl]

I feel a little bit better about this useless situation. I guess I didn't make myself clear that the husband already left a check for me on the front door. So I wasn't worried about getting paid. I just don't like that someone who presents themself as being a wealthy individual can balk at my price compared to the time I spent on the property. What is going to happen when I have a less wealthy family hire me to do maintenance? I hope someone out there can tell me what to do when these situations come about. I mean, I buy better equipment to be more efficient, then get verbally abused for being more effiicient. What gives? Some have said to try and do the work when the homeowner is away. That can't really happen for me. Most of my customers wives' don't work. I guess I need to just forget about it. But surely someone has something good to say when they are being abused by such customers. Please help!!

[lawrence stone]

Nate your min. charge is way too low.<p>If the homeowner wanted to do the job with<br>a rental aerator it would cost him $40-50<br>plus sales tax, plus he would have to make<br>two trips the rental place plus wash the unit after using.<p>Chem lawn has a $100 min. try charging $75 next time and don't ever pay any attention<br>to housewifes on prozak, zanix, and paxil.

[ashlandscaping]

From what I have seen and learned from these type of customers is the ones with money are always the ones to Bit-h. About something at all and most times its stupid bs things they yap about. But it makes them feel that you earned your money. We mow in an area that is mostly homes $ 300000 to 1.5 mill. and all we hear is yap yap yap. Most times its some little thing that once they are done all is good and then they pay. Other ones I have had alot of bad luck with is old timers. If it not we used to have to work for are money or you want how much. I got to the point one day with a older lady that she and a problem with the 52 walks on her lawn and wanted the 21 push mowwers used instead. She thought we were riping her off since the crew was in and out in less than 8 mins. Well I gave her a price to use the small mower and she freaked. Then I showed her what the walk behinds sell for and she was just blown away at the price. Then I pointed out her look their is 4 mowwers on that trailer so add it up then add in price for truck and trailer and weed wackers and ect. So she did when it was all said and done it added up to like $ 55000 in all. Then I said to her now we have 2 set ups like that. After all that she never btch again and started to add a tip to each bill. Worst part of it all she was worth millions. And I mean Millions they owned lots of farm land and made major money when they sold it all off but still count for ever penny. SO nate its not you.

[lbmd1]

Hard to believe me saying this, but Lawrence is right on the money. Chem Lawn does charge that and what he said about the rental is correct too. Try to figure what it would cost them with their time, money and the hassle of picking up such a sizeable machine in their Bimmers and Suv's. Not to mention the little white collar guys manuvering this machine would be worth watching. Once they see what this process entails, they shouldn't cry too much.

[Keith]

Nate, I think we all have or had customers like this. It seems the more well off they are the less they think you should have. I have found that working people are less likely to go into shock over prices. LOL <p>Some of these older wealthy people have been screwing people for years to save a buck. And the amazing thing is they think you are screwing them. They say &quot;the little neighbor kid would mow my yard for $20 and he spent 6 hours doin it. And now you want $50 and you're here an hour&quot; :)<p>

[AB Lawn Care]

NateinAtl<p>We all some time or an other have worked for total jerks like that.I have had my fare share.In you case if that same thing ever happened agian I would try to reason for a short time and if thay still could not get it through their thick head just walk away.The reason I say this is becouse this person is A: not regular client and B: do you really want this client in the future?In most cases you have to do what ever it takes to calm down your client.But in that case this lady's best freind(bud light)probably told her you did not do a good job.Some people seem very nice when you first work for them,but in no time they turn into this lady.If you work for someone who acts like that right off the bat just think of what she is really like!I say in your case take the money and run!!!<p>from:Adam<br>AB Lawn Care

[thelawnguy]

You never mentioned in the original post that the check was already made out.<p>Absolutely first thing I do, if a customer is pre-pay or will leave money, is TAKE THE CHECK. This way it wont matter what the nag has to say, and if you get killed or something halfway thru the job at least your estate will have one less account to collect from.<p>Bill

[jeffclc]

I have had many thoughts and discussions on this very subject. Sometimes it seems as if we are being punished by purchasing the most efficent(expensive) equipment. <p>If you buy a faster, better, more efficent machine,(expensive) you are able to complete tasks much faster than with smaller, less efficent tools. In theory, you would have to charge a higher hourly rate to compensate for the added expense of the better tools.<p>I purchased one of the long reach hedge clippers, and have found that it really is a time saver. If a customer has a row of large hedges, there are 3 different ways that they can be trimmed; long reach clipper, standard clipper and ladder, and manual clippers and ladder. <p>Using a labor rate of $40/hour, it may take 3 hours to clip the hedges with the hand clippers and a ladder. Total cost $120. With the standard clippers and a ladder, it may take 2 hours. Total cost $80. With the long reach clippers, it may take only one hour for a cost of $40. These are only &quot;fun&quot; hourly rates, for the sake of discussion. I am using these numbers from an actual job I have done all 3 ways. It took me the said times with the said equipment.<p>Now, it seems like I am being punished by buying the fastest tool for the job. I don't think that anyone would balk at you charging $120 for 3 hours of work, you earned it fair and square. Now, for the same result, you could be finished in an hour, and I would be willing to bet that the same customer that didn't blink an eye at the $120 for the 3 hours work, would have a fit for being charged $120 for 1 hours work. Keep in mind that the result is the same, the hedge is trimmed. <p>It seems like with the better tools, you have to do more work to make the same money. Why buy the fastest then? Why not just use the old fashioned hand clippers, and everyone makes out, the customer doesn't feel cheated, you make your hourly rate, and you don't have a huge investment in tools, everyone wins.<p>I have thought of a few different ways of dealing with this. One id to price ALL jobs ahead of time, and stick to that price. Many of my customers don't even ask price anymore, and know that they will be treated fairly. If you prices every job ahead of time, then there could be no grounds for complaints, as in the origional post. <p>Another option would be to have a different rate for each type of tool that you have. Manual clippers, $40/hour, gas clippers, $80/hour, and long reach clippers, $120/hour. <br>This would be very time consuming to prepare a bid for a job, especially the smaller jobs. Go around and figure each time for each piece of equipment. I know that Phil Nilsson will disagree with me on this one, but is it worth the time to figure down to thi minute on the small one time jobs? I am talking the 3-4 hour jobs.<p>I guess what it all boils down to is what is the job worth? What does the customer feel is a fair price for the RESULT? If I contract someone to dig a ditch for me and they quote me $250, and I agree, do I have a right to complain if they use a backhoe and it takes them an hour to do? What if they show up with a pick and a shovel and it took them all day? <br> <p>

[lbmd1]

Jeff,<br> that was an excellent post that I'm sure most would agree with. We have a larger competitor in town that has every conceivable mower , trucks and option you could possibly dream of. He can come in on an average lawn and perform a clean-up in about an hour with 3 guys, trac vacs, and truck leaf vacs. He charges about $175 for this one hour of work but he still gets complaints even though he has to pay 3 guys, get rid of the leaves and all of the overhead on the equipment. But they won't mind or b#@*^$ if one or two guys show up and spend 2-4 hours there for the same price. Customers will never see our side, they would rather see you sweat and struggle for that $$$$$$$$$$. Makes them feel better I guess. Your analogy of the backhoe is perfect. They never complain when the other trademen come and charge $45 just for showing up, then $50-$60 hr thereafter. Do you think these guys have $50-$60,000 worth of s#@%& in their toolbelts? I think John Retro said it right that you should perform the work if you can while they are not at home. This way the job gets done, and they can't see how long it takes you. That way you can work by the hour and not feel pressured by time if you have to bid it out.

[lawrence stone]

Mikey,<p>I have not had the problem since I stopped<br>working for senior citizens in &quot;town&quot; many,<br>many years ago.<p>What I have found is that your residential<br>customers (doctors, lawyers, accounts, other<br>business owners) MUST have as much intelligence as myself.<p>Therefore my local residential market is very limited and I perfer to solicit public<br>school districts (athletic fields only),<br>industrial then commercial accounts.

[dylan]

And I thought I was the only one dealing with &quot;interesting&quot; clients. Some of my customers complain about the wb on their yard and the price if I'm not there very long. <br>I think I work for the lady that takes the cake for complaining. Every week, the grass is either too long or too short. I can never get it right (for her) it seems. I don't change the height of the cut, but one week I cut it too short and the next it is too long. I just smile and tell her I'll see what I can do. Its been 3 yrs now and I've gotten used to her antics.

[JJ Lawn]

Larry, <p>I gotta ask..<p>Why do you spend so much time talking &quot;at&quot; us losers (your words), cause according to you we are not nearly as intelligent as you?<p>Why are you afraid to answer direct questions about you and your business? In fact why do you avoid any question directed to you? What are you afraid of? Does not sound like your philosphy of you &quot;don't cower to no one&quot;? Does it make you feel real big to attack others? Or are your ranting all BS?<p>You continue to verbally abuse the other people in this group for what you claim are their short comings, but but you offer no proof to your claims of fame.<p>So whats the story of Lawrence Stone, Larry Flint, and whatever alias you use?<p>jim

[DavidATL]

Nathan- <br>I certainly don't have an answer for you but know because you want all of your customers to be totally satisfied and because your heart is in the right place, a situation like this is really hard to swallow. I think what most people forget is that they are not simply paying for your time. They are paying for your knowledge, experience, equipment, insurance, gasoline, drive time and a whole host of miscellaneous expenses. When I go to the Doctor's office, I sure don't think I am being fairly charged either if I am only paying for the Doctor's actual time spent with me. Actually maybe that's why we wait so long in the waiting room! But seriously, when these situations occur, I believe the best you can do is to politely educate your customer on just what all it takes from a business standpoint just to show up.

[Finecut]

Lawrence,<p>I saw in your above post,&quot;MUST have as much intelligence as myself,&quot; which leads me to believe you take advantage of handicapped people.<p>What a wonder world with one person right and the rest of us lamers wrong - how have we survived this long without your help? Which leads to my next question, do we really need you to survive?

[MRPLOW]

Chemlawn quoted me a price of $50.00 to aerate my lawn.

[richard]

aerations go for $50 in seattle too. i'm equipted pretty heavy too and don't bid by the hour but by the man hour....up front they're told how many man hours and they are told that only the best equiptment is used so alot gets done real fast nobody seems to have trouble with this, starting out i learned the lessons of by the hour...