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FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 09:29 AM
Came home to this on my door. This company is one of the lousiest irrigation companies in dallas irrigation history in my opinion. I do even try to renovate their systems just give them names of quality installers.

Ground Master
11-09-2007, 09:34 AM
Can't read it to well, but are they quoting new systems at 1750? Holy crap thats unbelievable!

hoskm01
11-09-2007, 09:43 AM
Maybe they do really nice blowouts for 1750!


Flyer looks cheezy and cheap.

jimmyburg
11-09-2007, 10:26 AM
If i read it right, it looks like a new Lic# and i see a master plumber lic#,

hoskm01
11-09-2007, 11:09 AM
Straining to read, it says front, back and side yards... How is that possible? Oh yeah, its not with anything of decent value. Toro and Rainbird my rump. FIM, get them on here so we can scold and pummel them.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 02:35 PM
They look for a certain kind of house. 60' wide 110 'long with a house in the middle. Use three cheap rotors in the front. Two at the street corners. One in the middle by the house. Put 15' sprays 10' out from the house spraying at it. Cheap timer. No more than 4 zones. No warranty. Double the valves in a 6" box. Tie in by house with an AVB. At least the three I've dealt with by this company were that type. Maybe this is for the front only and sides. Price is just a teaser. Prey on the average persons ignorance to what a quality system can be. Ruin the market for people trying to be quality companies.

hoskm01
11-09-2007, 03:08 PM
sprays 10' out from the house spraying at it.



Keeps the siding clean! Duh.

dtanovic
11-09-2007, 03:15 PM
$1,700 doesn't seem like that low of a price for what FIMCO is describing. 5 or 6 rotors in the front 7 or 8 sprays on each side, another 9 rotors in the back. It looks like a pretty typical job around here.

hoskm01
11-09-2007, 04:51 PM
$1,700 doesn't seem like that low of a price for what FIMCO is describing. 5 or 6 rotors in the front 7 or 8 sprays on each side, another 9 rotors in the back. It looks like a pretty typical job around here.
Must be a regional thing. You do know that 1500 is the min per zone right?:)

DanaMac
11-09-2007, 05:48 PM
Must be a regional thing. You do know that 1500 is the min per zone right?:)

well then maybe the guy with the flier is doing one big zone :laugh:

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 06:29 PM
$1,700 doesn't seem like that low of a price for what FIMCO is describing. 5 or 6 rotors in the front 7 or 8 sprays on each side, another 9 rotors in the back. It looks like a pretty typical job around here.

Are you pulling the pipe? What kind of profit would be left for you when done? It can't be much.

BSME
11-09-2007, 08:05 PM
FM... you don't have a sprinkler system?

If you do... why would that be on your door? Can't they tell you already have a system?

(not calling you out though if you dont... I don't have one at my house yet... more or a time issue than anything else though...)

BSME
11-09-2007, 08:06 PM
$1,700 doesn't seem like that low of a price for what FIMCO is describing. 5 or 6 rotors in the front 7 or 8 sprays on each side, another 9 rotors in the back. It looks like a pretty typical job around here.

The problem is that isn't that bad of a price for our install market... but it is a really bad price... that's why we don't do too many

dtanovic
11-09-2007, 08:16 PM
Are you pulling the pipe? What kind of profit would be left for you when done? It can't be much.

Actually, I'm not in the business. I found this board when I was trying to educate myself before getting one installed late this summer.

Anyway, I figure it would be about 7 or 8 hundred in materials and two guys could do the job in a day (pulling poly). Pay your employee $200 for a day and that leaves you $700 in contribution/profit depending on how much overhead you have. Just my guess. Doesn't seem that bad - but I'm probably missing something.

hoskm01
11-09-2007, 08:31 PM
Overhead: Fuel, tools, fuel, insurance, permit, license, fuel, trencher/puller, vehicles, fuel, bond, among others. That 700 goes bye-bye pretty quick.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 09:33 PM
FM... you don't have a sprinkler system?

If you do... why would that be on your door? Can't they tell you already have a system?

(not calling you out though if you dont... I don't have one at my house yet... more or a time issue than anything else though...)

That's the silly thing. A flying clown irrigator monkey could see I clearly have a sprinkler system. Maybe the best sprinkler system in Richardson, TX with all the bells and whistles it has. WM SL, Baseline moisture sensor, netafim in beds, a few risers the average irrigator could see. My Mom who lives a 1/2 block away got the same flyer with no price listed on it.:confused: My lawn alone clearly reflects an astounding sprinkler system. Low ballers are idiots. Only way to put it.

EagleLandscape
11-09-2007, 09:52 PM
Sorry, we have the best sprinkler system in Richardson, TX:)
(just had to throw that one in there, I'm in a fiestly mood fighting with some idiot over in the commercial landscape section.)

I bet you have the best repairs though:)

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 10:00 PM
Sorry, we have the best sprinkler system in Richardson, TX:)
(just had to throw that one in there, I'm in a fiestly mood fighting with some idiot over in the commercial landscape section.)

I bet you have the best repairs though:)

Does your system have brass nozzles, mp rotators, RB rotators, 9 separate watering zones, a second experimental watering controller, the latest WM SL, baseline sensor, two below ground hydants in the middle of the front and back yards, a pigtail for remote servicing, AND a separate meter????????> Mine only gets serviced to be improved.:usflag: I have peeked at your system John. It is a fine one.

dtanovic
11-09-2007, 10:16 PM
FIMCO,

What happened to the post where you said my earlier post was the dumbest of the day?

Just wondering what was so dumb about it.

Still think it can't be that far off. Otherwise I wouldn't have got three quotes all in the same ballpark. These guys are making a living - probably not getting rich.

I figured when I put up the original post it would get someone all fired up.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 10:19 PM
FIMCO,

What happened to the post where you said my earlier post was the dumbest of the day?

Just wondering what was so dumb about it.

Still think it can't be that far off. Otherwise I wouldn't have got three quotes all in the same ballpark. These guys are making a living - probably not getting rich.

I figured when I put up the original post it would get someone all fired up.

The mods watch me closely these days.:cry: Tell me how they are selling their systems? Price only? What do you want in an irrigation system?

dtanovic
11-09-2007, 10:30 PM
The mods watch me closely these days.:cry: Tell me how they are selling their systems? Price only? What do you want in an irrigation system?

Mine is already done and in. I was just surprised that people on the board thought that $1700 was way too low. Mine is a 60' x 140' with a house in the middle. As far as I can tell - people are pricing $250 to $350 per zone. All my quotes were in the $1500 to $1900 range.

My system seems to be pretty good. PGP's, Pro-Sprays, Head to Head coverage, Pro-C controller.

I assume trenching and PVC require more labour :canadaflag: than pulling poly around here so maybe down south is a little more pricey.

Also building and business in general is probably slow for most guys around here (Detroit/Windsor) so competition for the jobs is pretty tough.

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-09-2007, 10:33 PM
Mine is already done and in. I was just surprised that people on the board thought that $1700 was way too low. Mine is a 60' x 140' with a house in the middle. As far as I can tell - people are pricing $250 to $350 per zone. All my quotes were in the $1500 to $1900 range.

My system seems to be pretty good. PGP's, Pro-Sprays, Head to Head coverage, Pro-C controller.

I assume trenching and PVC require more labour :canadaflag: than pulling poly around here so maybe down south is a little more pricey.

Also building and business in general is probably slow for most guys around here (Detroit/Windsor) so competition for the jobs is pretty tough.

Interesting and sad. I'd never work for what those guys are making.

hoskm01
11-10-2007, 09:58 AM
, I'm in a fiestly mood fighting with some idiot over in the commercial landscape section.)




Wonder who that is;)

RedWingsDet
11-10-2007, 10:12 AM
Interesting and sad. I'd never work for what those guys are making.

They are not making much, most of these around here are lucky to get $600 per zone. The money is in the service around detroit.

jerryrwm
11-10-2007, 10:26 AM
Mine is already done and in. I was just surprised that people on the board thought that $1700 was way too low. Mine is a 60' x 140' with a house in the middle. As far as I can tell - people are pricing $250 to $350 per zone. All my quotes were in the $1500 to $1900 range.

My system seems to be pretty good. PGP's, Pro-Sprays, Head to Head coverage, Pro-C controller.

I assume trenching and PVC require more labour :canadaflag: than pulling poly around here so maybe down south is a little more pricey.

Also building and business in general is probably slow for most guys around here (Detroit/Windsor) so competition for the jobs is pretty tough.Not saying that the system is bad or wrong. But the pricing for many is wrong. And that is due to the different locations trying to insert their business and market into a geographically different location

Example: a plumbing tap/backflow set up runs us between $500.00 - $750.00. So after I add overhead to that and using your model of $700 for material and $400.00 for labor I'm at $1850 in cost (but not really since I have overhead to add). If I want to make my margins and show a profit I would have to charge over $3200.00. So pricing is based on the market.

I wouldn't even talk to you for $250.00 for a zone.

CAPT Stream Rotar
11-10-2007, 10:29 AM
Not saying that the system is bad or wrong. But the pricing for many is wrong. And that is due to the different locations trying to insert their business and market into a geographically different location

Example: a plumbing tap/backflow set up runs us between $500.00 - $750.00. So after I add overhead to that and using your model of $700 for material and $400.00 for labor I'm at $1850 in cost (but not really since I have overhead to add). If I want to make my margins and show a profit I would have to charge over $3200.00. So pricing is based on the market.

I wouldn't even talk to you for $250.00 for a zone.

for 250 a zone I might get 1 foot out of the truck

hoskm01
11-10-2007, 10:34 AM
Not saying that the system is bad or wrong. But the pricing for many is wrong. And that is due to the different locations trying to insert their business and market into a geographically different location

Example: a plumbing tap/backflow set up runs us between $500.00 - $750.00. So after I add overhead to that and using your model of $700 for material and $400.00 for labor I'm at $1850 in cost (but not really since I have overhead to add). If I want to make my margins and show a profit I would have to charge over $3200.00. So pricing is based on the market.

I wouldn't even talk to you for $250.00 for a zone.
Jerry,
Why so expensive for a backflow setup?

I can do a 1" backflow off of house main, plumb in copper to the manifold for maybe 175 cost, before overhead. I dont doubt your costs, just curious on where the difference comes in.

hoskm01
11-10-2007, 10:36 AM
for 250 a zone I might get 1 foot out of the truck
Id get out of the truck, but barefoot.

Kiril
11-10-2007, 10:37 AM
The Best Sprinkler System Is No Sprinkler System!

CAPT Stream Rotar
11-10-2007, 10:40 AM
Id get out of the truck, but barefoot.



Thanks for the laugh!!!!!

good 1

Kiril....we know.

hoskm01
11-10-2007, 10:43 AM
The Best Sprinkler System Is No Sprinkler System!

Aquaphobite!

jerryrwm
11-10-2007, 11:16 AM
Jerry,
Why so expensive for a backflow setup?

I can do a 1" backflow off of house main, plumb in copper to the manifold for maybe 175 cost, before overhead. I dont doubt your costs, just curious on where the difference comes in.
1. Taps are done in basement.
2. Drill through to outside to mount BFD
3. Copper from tap to BFD
4. Has to be done by a licensed plumber!

hoskm01
11-10-2007, 11:35 AM
1. Taps are done in basement.
2. Drill through to outside to mount BFD
3. Copper from tap to BFD
4. Has to be done by a licensed plumber!
Nuff said! Thanks.

CAPT Stream Rotar
11-10-2007, 11:45 AM
1. Taps are done in basement.
2. Drill through to outside to mount BFD
3. Copper from tap to BFD
4. Has to be done by a licensed plumber!

Same here although some hacks plumb out with pvc...

What ever it takes.

EagleLandscape
11-10-2007, 01:07 PM
Does your system have brass nozzles, mp rotators, RB rotators, 9 separate watering zones, a second experimental watering controller, the latest WM SL, baseline sensor, two below ground hydants in the middle of the front and back yards, a pigtail for remote servicing, AND a separate meter????????> Mine only gets serviced to be improved.:usflag: I have peeked at your system John. It is a fine one.

HAHAHA, you win by far. I am surprised that you have an irrigation only meter. How much did that cost in Richardson? I know parker's is like 2k. But I won't be paying sewer so it wont matter. Will do flow control to watch.

We just have brass nozzles, (for the most part until I shredded a few while overseeding). wm sl, first edition, but second edition slw20. (ours were free though:)). 13 zones, and a wire for flow control / auto shut off when we used an older wm controller. Valcon maybe? It was big heavy and gray.

I did land a job for landscape lights already, and one for christmas lights at a large subdivision. Maybe this whole lighting deal will work out great.

When i build my new house in Parker, I will be using two wire.

I was at weathermatic the other day and got the whole speech on two wire, their system is awesome! that's for sure. Add a zone anywhere, thats what I'm going to like!!!

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-11-2007, 09:02 AM
HAHAHA, you win by far. I am surprised that you have an irrigation only meter. How much did that cost in Richardson? I know parker's is like 2k. But I won't be paying sewer so it wont matter. Will do flow control to watch.

We just have brass nozzles, (for the most part until I shredded a few while overseeding). wm sl, first edition, but second edition slw20. (ours were free though:)). 13 zones, and a wire for flow control / auto shut off when we used an older wm controller. Valcon maybe? It was big heavy and gray.

I did land a job for landscape lights already, and one for christmas lights at a large subdivision. Maybe this whole lighting deal will work out great.

When i build my new house in Parker, I will be using two wire.

I was at weathermatic the other day and got the whole speech on two wire, their system is awesome! that's for sure. Add a zone anywhere, thats what I'm going to like!!!

When I installed mine 13 years ago the 1" meter ran 550.00. Back then I was installing and always insisted on a separate tap for the irrigation so I did what i preached. Today it might be different with the meter costs. I still can't believe I used to 1.5" meters installed by the City of Dallas 25 years ago. Even then it seemed incredibly cheap. Your generation can have two wire. I'll be long gone before those become the primary focus of service. Be sure and get a gps on those valves because they are hard to find with a 521 if you lose them. Might want to read LR's posts on 2 wire and lightning damage. Also you can't hookup a universal remote to two wire. The add a zone feature is nice though. Also how does two wire and soil moisture sensors work together? I guess it can be done. Get a baseline moisture sensor for fun to help with your run frequencies.

Wet_Boots
11-11-2007, 10:24 AM
I remember one town that charged all of $250 for a one-inch meter, including the tapping of the main in the street, and a meter pit with a frost-proof cover. Insane bargain.

EagleLandscape
11-11-2007, 01:47 PM
You can use a 521 on the WM 2 wire system, but it will only go to the decoder. either SMDEC1 2 or 4. And then once you find that in a valve box, you can just tap into that zone wire and go from there. One extra step, but it will still work.

But, the Locator feature on the SL still works with 2 wire, the only that doesnt work is the miliamps test for the solenoids. I can live without though.

londonrain
11-11-2007, 02:05 PM
You can use a 521 on the WM 2 wire system, but it will only go to the decoder. either SMDEC1 2 or 4. And then once you find that in a valve box, you can just tap into that zone wire and go from there. One extra step, but it will still work.

But, the Locator feature on the SL still works with 2 wire, the only that doesnt work is the miliamps test for the solenoids. I can live without though.
You can not trace a individual valve on a 2 wire (IE zone # 9 out of 40 zones), you trace the wire path for the entire system. The decoder on the hit system logic one does not give off a distinct signal. The solenoid is what gives the 521 the strong signal.

londonrain
11-11-2007, 02:13 PM
Also on a 2 wire most of the time when you are hunting a decoder or valve it is because it is not working correctly. Even if the WM 2 wire will ping a valve, it will do no good because the decoder is not working or the wire has a fault.

EagleLandscape
11-11-2007, 02:33 PM
....runs and hides...

EagleLandscape
11-11-2007, 02:39 PM
I remember one town that charged all of $250 for a one-inch meter, including the tapping of the main in the street, and a meter pit with a frost-proof cover. Insane bargain.

College Station is 300 or 350 for a 1" tap.
and like 250 for sewer.

i just had both done, the water line was a few feet underground, the sewer line was 14' below. talk about a big hole!

Here are two pictures of the hole when they were about half way through. They were beign real careful because there was a gasline in that same ditch somewhere.

Wet_Boots
11-11-2007, 02:50 PM
That's a good deal. Deeper waterlines up North, of course, and nothing shares space with gas lines. After a while, the town stopped using the frostproof (double) meter-pit covers, since they determined a deep pit provided enough heat to prevent freezing.

WalkGood
11-11-2007, 11:13 PM
Geeze that is an amazing deal. Around here, you cant get three guys to step out of the truck for $300. Must be subsidized by the county/town/city?

FIMCO-MEISTER
11-12-2007, 05:31 AM
Geeze that is an amazing deal. Around here, you cant get three guys to step out of the truck for $300. Must be subsidized by the county/town/city?

Or maybe our taxes are used more efficiently and the area has a pro growth attitude?

Wet_Boots
11-12-2007, 09:46 AM
How it's all organized might make a difference. The bargains I saw were in towns that had their own water departments, that didn't answer to regional authorities, and had all the backhoes and other equipment needed to do all the work themselves.