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The Lighting Geek
11-16-2007, 12:15 AM
Just curious, do any of you use live demo's?

I modified the back of my f-150 with a cab high shell, no side window, rolling bed platform, 5-840 tf, approx. 80 fixtures. One big demo kit on wheels :)
I average about 1-3 demo's a week and close 100 percent of them. It raised my average lighting job to 60-75 fixtures very quickly. It also taught me alot about what works and what doesn't.

I would love to hear what your doing and how it works for ya...

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
11-16-2007, 01:37 AM
Hi Tommy

I did a lighting demo once, about 9 years ago. After that I swore I would never ever do another one again. I think you will find that there are people who are firm believers in this technique and there are people like myself who really don't like it at all.

I find it cumbersome, time consuming, and not very effective at increasing my sales. I also think it isn't the best use of my client's precious time or attention. Since over 90% of my business comes from referrals, I don't really need to spend that type of time required to do a demo. The prospects have already seen the effect of my work. If they haven't, I would much rather take them to a property for a walk through. Walk throughs are very efficient and very effective at showcasing your work.

I'm sure that there are a wide variety of opinions on this and an equally wide variety of techniques that work in different markets for different contractors. You simply have to try and find the best mix for you and your clients.

Flow Control
11-16-2007, 06:28 AM
Show us a pic of your set-up

Mike M
11-16-2007, 07:36 AM
Demo's help me to learn, and they give me confidence, too.

80 fixtures? I was cursing at buying 6 and a transformer. LOL.

Mike

Pro-Scapes
11-16-2007, 07:47 AM
we built a demo kit... i think I got about 14 bullets... couple of assorted paths a wall wash and the light on a stick.

If 1-3 demos works for you thats great. If I were doing that many I would have a real slick set up like you.

I usually only demo if the client is SERIOUS or is willing to pay a small fee if they decide not to use me. Another good time to demo is when the client has a less than desireable name brand system by a uninformed installer and it lacks design and performance.

I need to go do one next week where the back yard is semi lit but basically a black hole. Incredible home and yard but is really under lit.

Lite4
11-16-2007, 04:00 PM
I don't particularly like doing demos. Even though I have been landscaping here in my neck of the woods for many years, my stand alone lighting business is still fairly new. I have taken a little different approach than some guys. I am doing demos for developments, and commercial complexes. Oh, I still do homes too, but I find that almost all the developers and builders in my area are still relying soley on HID lighting for their properties. This is a picture of a demo I did 3 nights ago for a development. I know they are not the right kind of light for this application and there are no filters on the lights, but it was effective in conveying to him what I was wanting to accomplish. I use around 25-40 lights in an average demo.

The Lighting Geek
11-16-2007, 11:30 PM
Some the things I forgot to mention:
1. I heavily pre-qualify anyone before a demo is even discussed.
2. I have sold multiple jobs as a result of one demo.
3. Average demo is 20 lights
4. I leave them set up for about a week
5. I reward the client for every contract signed as a result of their demo.
6. A typical demo takes me about 20 min to set up. (I have done hundreds)

Demo's are not for everyone, but you are someone who has alot of passion for what you do, this might be for you. I currently demo 1 in 3-4 jobs, but when I started I did almost every job.
http://http://thelightinggeek.com/assets/images/db_images/db_Himalayan_Designs5.jpg

jhuanger629
11-16-2007, 11:45 PM
We always try and do live demo's for our solar line as it is relatively easy to do so. Actually just visited the Bay Area to demo the line for a client. It turned out well as our pieces were recommended to the entire block.

I guess for us, the major factors are seriousness and distance.

Lite4
11-30-2007, 09:32 PM
Tonights demos. Why doesn't anyone else post pics? Are you not taking pictures of your work?

JoeyD
11-30-2007, 09:41 PM
Tim that looks sweet.

Very nice set up. Those columns would look great with some flat shrouded Nova's cored in!!

Chris J
11-30-2007, 09:42 PM
Tim,
That looks sweet, but I think it's a bit too much for my taste. On the columns, I think I would try to hit them from the corners instead of "one per side" thus use less fixtures. On the right side of the home, I would probably try to wash the entire surface of the walls (not just the corners). This is just my opinion, but opinions are like butt-holes: everyone has them, and all of them stink!
The demo looks outstanding nonetheless. Whatever you choose to do, I'm sure the client will be pleased. :drinkup:

Lite4
11-30-2007, 10:04 PM
Joey, using the novas is the plan. I am going to let them try it on for a few days and I will try to sell it.

Chris, the pictures are a bit hot and also I did not have any more frosted lenses for the columns smooth out the light. The level really is not bad though. As far as lighting the corners, that side of the house is a little goofy but I know what you mean. I was second guessing myself about just lighting the corners there too. I also tried just lighting the corners on the pillars, but it just didn't come out right and it wasn't putting enough light up in the volume of the crossbeams.

irrig8r
11-30-2007, 10:24 PM
Hey Tim,
I really like the look except for one thing I see as an omission: I would probably add a couple of downlights from the arbor onto the walkway... maybe using 2012's, just for a little more direct light on the walking surface.

The columns are really dramatic, almost spooky, but I guess I don't think there's enough traverse light, especially since it looks like the main entry...

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
11-30-2007, 11:52 PM
Gregg beat me to the punch... Downlight the pathway a bit and reduce the intensity on the uplights a lot... by getting softer it will be less 'spooky' and dramatic. Some drama is a good thing, too much, and it starts looking contrived and commercial.

Have a great day.

The Lighting Geek
12-01-2007, 12:16 AM
Tim, that is a great demo. I would be surprised if they didn't buy that.

pete scalia
12-01-2007, 12:20 AM
I see in your demo you have the lights set on the concrete path to light the interior side of the columns. If you core the concrete and use recessed lights your gonna have the entrants singing the manfred Mann/Bruce Sprinsteen song

Blinded by the light
Wrecked up like a ........

Lite4
12-01-2007, 12:21 AM
Gregg and James, The photo is not representative of the real light. I darkened it a bit and like I told Chris the columns are a bit hot in the photo. There is a lot of reflective light on the walkway and is no need for additional lighting there (again the photo does not reflect that however). It got too dark on me while shooting these.

Lite4
12-01-2007, 12:29 AM
Pete, possibly, the glare may not be as big of a problem if you use a deep recessed well with a louver. Granted this is only a demo I would maybe try to mount something from the top but the way the columns are built on top it could be tough to graze those pillars properly. Who knows, I'll take whatever input you guys have.

pete scalia
12-01-2007, 12:34 AM
Pete, possibly, the glare may not be as big of a problem if you use a deep recessed well with a louver. Granted this is only a demo I would maybe try to mount something from the top but the way the columns are built on top it could be tough to graze those pillars properly. Who knows, I'll take whatever input you guys have.

If your objective is to light the interior stone columns then your only alternative is from the top down at that entry. You can only recess so deep and you will still have glare with traverse so close. The lower you recess the greater the dead spot at the base of the column. Spread lenses on overhead downlights mounted in the beams should give you some significant coverage on the path as well .

Lite4
12-01-2007, 12:39 AM
The problem with that Pete is that I will have to decide to either uplight all of them or downlight all of them. I don't want 2 opposing light patterns on the same column.

pete scalia
12-01-2007, 12:50 AM
here is a column lit from the top down

Lite4
12-01-2007, 10:41 AM
Pete, One of the main objectives for me to uplight the columns was so that the light would also light up the timber crossbeams.

JoeyD
12-01-2007, 12:08 PM
remember it is a walkway and not a primary viewpoint. sometimes you need to sacrafice certain areas to achieve an overall look. i like the uplighting effect on these dry stacked columns.

extlights
12-01-2007, 05:36 PM
I agree with Joey. It's probably hard to tell from the pictures, but because of the amount of columns in that small of an area there is probably more than enough reflective light for the walk way. I think Tim's demo is a great design that shows the texture of the columns and hi-lights the beams above. I think that adding any downlighting to that area might sway your attention away from the great architecture that his design focuses on. That's just my opinion though.

jana
12-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Looks great !!!

Maybe look to place a few FX TraveCasa's on the backside of the horizontal timbers.

irrig8r
12-01-2007, 06:48 PM
Gregg and James, The photo is not representative of the real light. I darkened it a bit and like I told Chris the columns are a bit hot in the photo. There is a lot of reflective light on the walkway and is no need for additional lighting there (again the photo does not reflect that however). It got too dark on me while shooting these.

I wondered about that too; as we all know nighttime photos are often different from what the human eye actually perceives.

pete scalia
12-01-2007, 07:54 PM
remember it is a walkway and not a primary viewpoint. sometimes you need to sacrafice certain areas to achieve an overall look. i like the uplighting effect on these dry stacked columns.

Good luck with the glare when your trying to enter the home through that walkway then.

JoeyD
12-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Your going to have glare when passing by but no one will be sitting and hanging out on the front entry. It is no different then using any recessed light. If you stand by it you get glare. You have to establish primary and secondary view points when creating a design and a front entry is rarely a view point to design from.

pete scalia
12-01-2007, 09:57 PM
Your going to have glare when passing by but no one will be sitting and hanging out on the front entry. It is no different then using any recessed light. If you stand by it you get glare. You have to establish primary and secondary view points when creating a design and a front entry is rarely a view point to design from.

Joey , how is that a way to great your guests when you have light blaring up into their eyes upon entering the home. No recessed fixture exists for that application that will be non glary and still produce the desired effect. Then you are talking about coring the existing concrete to get er done. It makes no sense to me when the best effect would be from overhead. Sometimes things are way over engineered and I think that recommendation is one of those cases. Being trick and doing neat installations with cool fixtures are one thing but not at the expense of annoying glare.

Pro-Scapes
12-01-2007, 10:58 PM
I think it looks good as is tim but I would probably agree on the downlighting just so there wouldnt be the glare arising out of the walkway. Best thing you can do is try it out and get the owners opinion. If you had to downlight and sacrafice the timers being lit it looks like it might be possible to hide a stellar or similar on top of the pillars grazing the timbers ?

Lite4
12-11-2007, 11:35 PM
Last nights demo.

pete scalia
12-11-2007, 11:37 PM
Nice, what camera u using?
Did you sell the job?

Lite4
12-11-2007, 11:38 PM
Ya, sold it this afternoon when I was taking it down. I use a Nikon D40X

pete scalia
12-11-2007, 11:40 PM
congrats- what settings?

Lite4
12-11-2007, 11:45 PM
Manual settings, f16, 25 seconds, no flash.

Thanks

jhuanger629
12-12-2007, 12:10 AM
wow, great job Tim, your demo looks amazing! congrats

Pro-Scapes
12-12-2007, 08:53 AM
what trippod are you using tim ? I think ours is unstable. Our pictures rarly come out that crisp

Chris J
12-12-2007, 08:56 AM
Sweet Tim!

Infinity Landscapes, Inc
12-12-2007, 09:06 AM
we do live demos but I use aboat 8 lights just to give the client a hint of what can be expected. get them excited sell the job then the finshed project which will be a thrill for them to see on the first night when they come home from work.

Lite4
12-12-2007, 09:41 AM
Good for you. Demos can be a powerful selling tool.

Lite4
12-12-2007, 09:42 AM
Billy, the tripod I use is not real expensive. It's out in my truck and I will get the name for you later. It only cost about 50 bucks. Certainly not the best, but it does alright for this amateur.

TXNSLighting
12-12-2007, 10:02 AM
Looks real nice tim. Hope you show us the final product.

Pro-Scapes
12-12-2007, 10:10 AM
Billy, the tripod I use is not real expensive. It's out in my truck and I will get the name for you later. It only cost about 50 bucks. Certainly not the best, but it does alright for this amateur.

mine was about that too... folds up nice and comes in a case... i been using the timer when taking pics. Im looking into canon 20d's now... since the 30d came out you can get some nice packages semi reasonable

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-12-2007, 11:41 AM
mine was about that too... folds up nice and comes in a case... i been using the timer when taking pics. Im looking into canon 20d's now... since the 30d came out you can get some nice packages semi reasonable

Billy... the Canon 40D is now the current model, so be looking for deals on the 30D. I did this same thing a while ago, just after the 30D was released I bought my 20D and saved a bunch.

You cannot wait too long though... there won't me many 30D packages lying around the shelves this time of year. If you get one let me know... I have also bought lenses, flash, trigger, monopod, tripod, case, etc etc for the camera and can direct you to some great places to find upgrades.

Enjoy.

extlights
12-12-2007, 05:04 PM
Here are a couple of pictures from the last Demo of the year for us. We did actually get the project which included the home, large pond, and driveway enterance. The pictures aren't the best since I really don't know how to take pictures, but it's the best I could do short of hiring someone....not to mention I forgot my tripod, so it took everything I had to keep my hands steady.

klkanders
12-12-2007, 07:48 PM
Nice Dave! What brand are the fixtures if I may ask? All copper? 15 uplights on the front? Thanks!

JoeyD
12-12-2007, 08:38 PM
Nice Dave..........You did a hell of a job too Tim!!

extlights
12-12-2007, 09:09 PM
We used all Hadco fixtures. All copper, 16 uplights on the home and 49 fixture total project. That first picture is a little dull...then again it's never perfect during a demo. It ended up being a pretty tricky install. All the fixtures on the garage and pillars are mounted right on the brick. We had to drill holes and run the wire through the garage and pillars to get a nice clean look because the concrete driveway meets the brick...no mulch or anything to put the lights in. Also on the other side of the home, we had to use a holesaw to cut into the concrete and recess the fixtures down below the columns. Fun job.

Lite4
12-12-2007, 09:19 PM
Looks nice Dave. Nice work on the architecture. Those coins on the corners really show well. Pictures never do justice to the real live portrait.

JoeyD
12-18-2007, 05:18 PM
Heres the Holiday Inn express my rep and a contractor demo'd in Ohio. Came out good and they bought the whole job!!! All 35w Par36 on the WHOLE JOB. Not all that great looking but not a bad pay day. Installation looks like it was really easy. I didnt post it for style points, but I did post it as to remind you guys that lighting jobs are all around you!!!!!!!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/MikeMHolidayInn.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/HolidayInn.jpg

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-18-2007, 08:49 PM
Yeeesh.... I'm glad that white elephant didn't light up in my back yard! No personal offense intended to the designer/installer...but my god what an eyesore that is! I sure hope there are no residences nearby that have to endure that all night.

Thankfully, here we have outdoor lighting guidelines and regulations that must be adopted by all developers on their site plan agreements for commercial and waterfront developments. This was spawned out of my protests over the lighting at the Wal-Mart that opened here a few years ago. I actually got them to change their entire outdoor / parking lighting system after it had been installed and fired up.

JoeyD
12-18-2007, 09:50 PM
Maybe Ohio needs a James Solecki.

This hotel is actually in a pretty run down community and they needed the saftey. They wanted to blast it so when customers were parking they didnt have to worry about the shadows. This neighborhood isnt lake muskoka.

The point of the post was more to inspire guys to think more of commercial designs with low voltage.

Have A Great Day!
Joey D.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-18-2007, 10:21 PM
The point of the post was more to inspire guys to think more of commercial designs with low voltage.

Have A Great Day!
Joey D.

Ok I get it now Joey...

And I agree with you completely. Commercial properties can be sucessfully lit with LV systems. I have done a few store fronts, signs and an entire storefront, sign, yard & parking lot of an interior design store, all in 100% LV lighting.

Civic and monumental lighting projects can also be great candidates for LV lighting systems.

One of the most impressive commercial LV lighting displays I have ever seen was done by Sandy I. in Montreal. He lit a boutique hotel entirely using LV equipment. It looks spectacular!

Here is a storefront job I did a while ago...
(handheld snap shot from a Canon G3, so be kind.)

pete scalia
12-18-2007, 10:50 PM
There's not enough light on the name. It's too dark to read. Poor fixture placement.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-18-2007, 11:07 PM
Wrong and Wrong. It is a poor photograph of a very effective installation.

The client is thrilled, it stands out along the row of main street businesses, and it meets DSF criteria. It has generated 3 other jobs. I call that sucessfully done.

extlights
12-18-2007, 11:09 PM
So what did Walmart do to change their outdoor/parking light system? I'm just curious because I know an attorney for Walmart, and when we talked to her about lighting she said that there are strict guidelines set in place that they have to follow in order to meet certain public safety and security standards for large retail establishments.

Sorry, not trying to Hi-jack the thread, I'm just curious to what they changed.

pete scalia
12-18-2007, 11:38 PM
Wrong and Wrong. It is a poor photograph of a very effective installation.

The client is thrilled, it stands out along the row of main street businesses, and it meets DSF criteria. It has generated 3 other jobs. I call that sucessfully done.

Succesful my eye when you can't even read the name. that's funny the bottom of the sign is readable just fine. What happened to the top? No light?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-18-2007, 11:43 PM
So what did Walmart do to change their outdoor/parking light system? I'm just curious because I know an attorney for Walmart, and when we talked to her about lighting she said that there are strict guidelines set in place that they have to follow in order to meet certain public safety and security standards for large retail establishments.

Sorry, not trying to Hi-jack the thread, I'm just curious to what they changed.

Sounds like you are getting the "party line" from Walmart. We heard it at first here too. Then I got a bit forward and took the issue public, first to Council who ignored me for about one week, then I went to the paper.... (Actually our town engineer met me on site and took my concerns very seriously... Sara Brown was a gem through the whole process) I took some measurements and found between 7 and 10 footcandles of light in the parking lot! This is huge overkill. Target Stores lights to 3 footcandles I believe and here, with such dark environments 2 is generally sufficient.

In the end, with the Engineer's support, and a copy of the original site plan agreement that clearly stated a 'dark sky friendly' (no specs!) lighting system was to be installed, Walmart acted quickly to rectify the situation....

They ended up replacing all of the pole top parking fixtures with flat glass DSF units, they replaced all of the building mounted wall packs with directional DSF units and they installed barn doors on the flood lights that illuminate the store front. (these are still an issue from the highway, causing veiling luminance, but our Ministry of Transportation is now involved)

All in all things worked out well. Walmart changed their lights, the light trespass and the sky glow was reduced, I got a TON of positive press out of the situation.... all good.

extlights
12-18-2007, 11:52 PM
I guess it's all in the contract wording. I suppose I can see the change due to the dark sky regulations if they didn't follow it....we don't have that in too many places around here.

Lite4
12-19-2007, 12:39 AM
James,
Nice job on the store front. The light levels seem very good to me, as well as the fixture placement. I have absolutely no trouble reading the signage. Well done my friend.

pete scalia
12-19-2007, 12:50 AM
One can only read some of the black lettering on the blue building. The lettering to the left and right is totally dark. Only in the middle is there light. Uneven illumination. Not good for signage. Especially for a business Identity. If I were them I'd ask for a discount. Only pay for what's visible.

Lite4
12-19-2007, 01:01 AM
Nope, looks good to me. I have absolutely no trouble reading that sign. Are you looking at the same picture?

pete scalia
12-19-2007, 08:18 AM
The lettered name arched style is dark on the sides hot spot in the middle

Mike M
12-19-2007, 08:32 AM
You are such an incredible annoyance here Pete. Just for once try as hard as you can to contribute in a positive manner.

James, you are such a gentleman and I read a ton of great tips from your posts. In terms of managing your sanity when conversing with Pete, try using the same respect and format with him that you are requesting; begin with a compliment (be very creative as necessary), and then try to state a non-emotional observation.

"Pete, good point about signage/letters being the primary focal point of a commercial job, I agree with you on this. In this particular case I didn't really have a problem with it, I think the job looks great."

Sorry, this is the school teacher in me.

irrig8r
12-19-2007, 01:08 PM
You are such an incredible annoyance here Pete. Just for once try as hard as you can to contribute in a positive manner.

James, you are such a gentleman and I read a ton of great tips from your posts. In terms of managing your sanity when conversing with Pete, try using the same respect and format with him that you are requesting; begin with a compliment (be very creative as necessary), and then try to state a non-emotional observation.

"Pete, good point about signage/letters being the primary focal point of a commercial job, I agree with you on this. In this particular case I didn't really have a problem with it, I think the job looks great."

Sorry, this is the school teacher in me.

Wow. Good advice Mike.

Pete, I also noticed that the black lettering was hard to read in that photo. I think it has more to do with the size, shape and color contrast than with the lighting. It's as if the name is intentionally being downplayed.

I don't know if this is a stand-alone business, a franchise, or maybe a business that has gone by one name for a while and a new owner's name is added at the top.... (actually looks like a place name to me)

But since (as far as I know) James didn't design the signage, give him a break dude...

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-19-2007, 03:33 PM
You are such an incredible annoyance here Pete. Just for once try as hard as you can to contribute in a positive manner.

James, you are such a gentleman and I read a ton of great tips from your posts. In terms of managing your sanity when conversing with Pete, try using the same respect and format with him that you are requesting; begin with a compliment (be very creative as necessary), and then try to state a non-emotional observation.

"Pete, good point about signage/letters being the primary focal point of a commercial job, I agree with you on this. In this particular case I didn't really have a problem with it, I think the job looks great."

Sorry, this is the school teacher in me.

Mike, thank you for the excellent advice. I shall try my best!

As for the sign on that store... In a perfect world the client would have had an unlimited budget and I could have used more fixtures. This was not the case and the lighting came in at a substantial premium as I was using custom length BK Sign Stars and Twin Stars... (Check out the price of those puppies some day!) Given the constraints of budget and civic ordinance, the job worked out very well and the client is thrilled. The photo doesn't do it justice.

Pete... I would really appreciate it if you would post some of your fabulous commercial work so that I could learn from you. :)

Have a great day.

jhuanger629
12-20-2007, 12:12 PM
cheers James, i think the sign looks great, especially since you were able to work within their budget constraints.

Mike M
12-27-2007, 07:23 PM
Demo progress: great!

Did another one tonight. They loved it, and they've been pre-qualified. And their friends stopped by and were impressed and asking all kinds of questions.

I'll celebrate when I submit the proposal and then get the deposit. Okay, so I stopped by the gas station and picked up some Coronas on my way home and I'm celebrating already.

I'm sending out round two of quantummail asap.

A bigger demo set & overnighting was a great idea, as I'm still pretty new at this, and need all the exposure I can get.

JoeyD
12-27-2007, 07:26 PM
Keep it up Mike, its going to pay off!!!

Mike M
12-27-2007, 07:36 PM
Booyah, Joe!

I have no idea how to spell that. Anyone watch Cramer on CNBC? My wife freakin hates him. But what does she know.

klkanders
12-27-2007, 07:39 PM
Way to go Mike!
Got Pics?

Chris J
12-27-2007, 08:14 PM
Ah yeah. And the Johnson way of direct mail marketing is once again making a believer out of another true gentleman. See, even though I'm an ass sometimes, some of my advice pays off great dividends. Keep on going Mike.....There are hundreds of customers who will be calling you within the next couple of years.

Mike M
12-27-2007, 10:13 PM
Thanks guys. Chris, I won't spend a penny on anything but direct mail. And a website. And the mexican taco truck guy. And the gas station beer. And that's it.

Chris J
12-28-2007, 01:55 PM
By the way Mike, I just received my new shipment of 60,000 post cards and the first batch of 10,000 is scheduled to be mailed 1/9/08. Total cost for printing, postage, sorting, list etc.. will be .247 cents per piece.

TXNSLighting
12-28-2007, 02:22 PM
.247 cents a piece?

Pro-Scapes
12-28-2007, 04:12 PM
By the way Mike, I just received my new shipment of 60,000 post cards and the first batch of 10,000 is scheduled to be mailed 1/9/08. Total cost for printing, postage, sorting, list etc.. will be .247 cents per piece.

what ???? full color both sides ? what size... chris... PLEASE email me the info on this. I been at 57 cents and quantum has the same deal. at a quarter each I will send out 10k tmrw.

TXNSLighting
12-28-2007, 04:22 PM
Thats a deal!

NightScenes
12-28-2007, 04:44 PM
I believe that the price Chris is getting is for the 60,000 units. This is close to 15K in all but it makes buying in large quantities quite appealing.

Pro-Scapes
12-28-2007, 05:58 PM
for that pricing I would go commit to 6 mailings of 10k

pete scalia
12-30-2007, 01:24 PM
This discussion should appear under the direct mail thread. Why do these posts keep getting hi-jacked and steered badly off course?

Mike M
12-30-2007, 04:15 PM
Off topic a little, but not badly, Chris knows I pushed the demo in my direct mailing, and the combo of demo plus mailing was great for getting me off my arse.

By the way, Iowa is happening in a couple of days, who do you think will win??

Lite4
01-06-2008, 08:55 PM
My current demo. This one comes down tuesday.

Pro-Scapes
01-06-2008, 09:02 PM
looks good tim. Would be very surprised if they didnt want that.

Mike M
01-06-2008, 09:33 PM
Wow, nice portait! Love the garden features, too.

klkanders
01-06-2008, 09:46 PM
Tim, Whats that area above the entrance? Is it an open balcony? Any way to get light up there?
Thanks,
Keith

pete scalia
01-06-2008, 10:05 PM
Nice job. Doing demo's in the snow and all. You do nice work I don't know why your broke.
Whose bullett is that in the last photo?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-06-2008, 11:14 PM
Demos in the snow... Now I have seen it all. You make me feel rather lazy seeing that Tim. (then again, the snow here is almost 3' thick on the ground and there is nobody around to sell to!)

Nice Job.

Lite4
01-06-2008, 11:26 PM
Keith, yes that is a balcony above the entry. He has some recessed can lights in the ceiling, but does want me to try to get some uplighting on the brick behind to wash it and the volume of the upper arch.

Pete, I think that fixture is a Hinkley. It is nothing special. I pulled those out of a house last year and replaced with stainless, so I just throw those out for demos. They still work just fine for showing light for a few nights at a time.

James, after the pictures you posted the other day in the weather probe thread, I would be hibernating in a nice warm room next a fireplace if I lived where you do.

pete scalia
01-07-2008, 12:03 AM
Keith, yes that is a balcony above the entry. He has some recessed can lights in the ceiling, but does want me to try to get some uplighting on the brick behind to wash it and the volume of the upper arch.

Pete, I think that fixture is a Hinkley. It is nothing special. I pulled those out of a house last year and replaced with stainless, so I just throw those out for demos. They still work just fine for showing light for a few nights at a time.

James, after the pictures you posted the other day in the weather probe thread, I would be hibernating in a nice warm room next a fireplace if I lived where you do.

Just kidding about the broke remark of course.

Lite4
01-07-2008, 12:11 AM
Pete, I am just getting this party started, so you know what startup costs are like. I could use some of your Starbucks coffee ground money if you need a tax break or something.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-07-2008, 12:23 AM
Tim, that uplight that is shining on the tree to the left of the entry door... what lamp is in there? The light that is shining onto the tree seems to be a cooler colour then the rest of the lamps in your demo. It almost looks like the cool white (4000K+) that you get from most of the LED lamps on the market.

Lite4
01-07-2008, 12:30 AM
James, You are very perceptive. The lights on the cedar are a different color. It is a standard BAB with a light blue lense. The light blue lense brings out the true green color of the tree instead of yellowing it out. I use a blue lense on most conifers I light. The color difference is staggering.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-07-2008, 12:37 AM
Thanks Tim. I have used blue lenses before when uplighting Blue Spruce (it really looks quite nice) but have never thought of doing it with all conifers.

Do you use the simple blue glass lens or do you use the dichroic lens? If you use the dichroic, what shade # do you prefer? I popped some blue dichroic lenses onto a Blue Spruce this past fall without specifying the shade # and the result was quite dramatic.. too much so for the client's tastes.

Thanks.

Lite4
01-07-2008, 12:42 AM
Just the simple light blue ones. I would like to experiment with some other colors for different applications. I just don't know where I would use a red or green lense except at Christmas time or going for some theme park look.

Mike M
01-07-2008, 05:34 AM
Hey Tim, too bad you ain't got no palms up there, awesome in green.

That being said, a little too fancy for me.

NightLightingFX
01-07-2008, 10:37 AM
Tim
I like it
~Ned

Lite4
01-19-2008, 09:21 PM
Demo I set up on Thursday.

Chris J
01-19-2008, 10:28 PM
Tim, what type of fixture are you using on the far left side of the home (under the street number plaque)? Is this a well? If so, what lamp/wattage? Also, what are the orange colored things on the roof line to the right of the door way (four in a row)?

Lite4
01-19-2008, 10:52 PM
On the left hand side is a Par 36/35 watt/ WFL, The four orange things you are seeing are wood support braces. That pop out facade over the braces stands off the wall about 2 feet.

TPnTX
01-23-2008, 06:51 PM
so how many nights do you guys allow for on a demo? (not you James :) )

I am currently working on a flyer. I was thinking of offering three nights. I'm going to pass these out in very exclusive neighborhoods. Believe me there are plenty.

This may seem cheesy, but once I get my name out there and referals I won't be seemingly begging anymore.

I'll probably add on there a $$$.$$ dollar value.

Lite4
01-23-2008, 06:56 PM
I do 4 nights on demos. But that is just me. Gives people a chance to drive by and view it after I knock on the neighborhood doors and tell them about it.

Mike M
01-23-2008, 06:59 PM
You may not want to bother with printing the number of days. You'll be busy, may need them right back, may want them up 1,2,3 days, whatever, it doesn't even matter for them. They know the first night if they like it, the additional days are really for your own benefit. They pay electricity, and allow you to advertise and promote yourself with the display.

Eden Lights
01-23-2008, 07:08 PM
I arrived at a job this week for a contracted install and found another company's demo setup still in place. Homeowner said they weren't impressed with the company so they had contracted with us, but didn't call the company because it was good to have something through the Holidays. I tried to take the demo down as neatly as possible and boxed everything up with our boxes as we installed our equipment. This was very weird, the set up had been there a couple of months and most of the equipment was brand new.

TXNSLighting
01-23-2008, 08:11 PM
they left their demo kit out for a couple of months?! wow...must not be a very busy company, or theyre not very smart and forgot about it.

Mike M
01-23-2008, 08:29 PM
the set up had been there a couple of months

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Did you also have to pull the wire out of the ground and unscrew the mounts from the trees? That may have been an install!

Lite4
01-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Wow Eddie, that would have been strange. Oh well, good for you.

Mike, You are advertising for Malibu lights. Please tell me you don't actually sell and install those things for homeowners, Please, Please, Please.

Mike M
01-24-2008, 07:55 AM
lol, Tim.

It's in response to everyone bustin on me for displaying my supported manu's.

You should have seen the Johnny Cash avatar before a moderator did. :nono:

Lite4
01-24-2008, 08:01 AM
Righty Ho, Guess I missed that one. Now I am laughing. Thanks

TPnTX
01-26-2008, 06:07 PM
Here is what I ended up with. Postcard size.

Mike M
01-26-2008, 08:02 PM
Hey, I recognize those Cast pics. I'm in a similar situation, needing marketing support. But I include the manu logo when I use their pics. Arguments differ on this.

You have a very nice logo.

Good luck, demo's can really help.

Lite4
01-26-2008, 08:39 PM
tpntx, I would probably drop all of the jargon about the types of lighting effects you can do. Most homeowners don't care, they will just rely on you to apply the right effects for them. I like the card, but the (effects list) make it look a little too busy. I would take em off and just simplify it. You need to limit it to what a prospect can easily read in about 3 seconds. My opinion just keep it clean and simple with the demo info and your phone number. Pics are OK, I am of the opinion if you are just starting out, using manus pics to help get you going is ok. Good luck, demos are tiring and time consuming, but they are productive if you target the right demographics.

TPnTX
01-26-2008, 09:01 PM
thanks for the input (thats why I posted it) and I considered not putting anything of the technique stuff. In the end I didn't have much more time to spend on it. So thats my 1st attempt. I will get decent pics eventually.

I just got home from officemax and got a few of them printed. I dropped the wife off to get her nails done and drove around for a while.

I live in a very prosperous part of DFW but really it's kinda isolated from the rest of the metroplex by a few miles. Very fast growth a lot of money. So in the time I had I took advantage of it being dark and check out a few of the upper income areas. 2 out of every 5 houses has lighting of some sort. More often than not it line voltage coming from jbox's on the house. So there's tons of opportunity. And this is just a grain of sand on the beach of DFW.

As anyone around here will tell you, LV is mostly unheard of. When you do hear of it they think of cheap. All the old money neighborhoods are lit up with MV lights and as I mentioned in another thread, a lot of those folks would not hear of using anything but the best.

I need to find a way to convey a few facts about LV but still be able to have an affective advertisement like Tim said 3 secs.

Again your probably right about the list of effects. This is my pilot so to speak so it will continue to develop.

Oh and Mike thanks for the compliment on the Logo. I did it myself(thank you) and it's work well so far. When I took it to have some signs made the lady asked if I wanted a job :)
no thank you.

Lite4
01-26-2008, 09:50 PM
[QUOTE=TPnTX;2118045]

2 out of every 5 houses has lighting of some sort.

QUOTE]

Around here it is about 1 out of every 30 houses that have landscape and architectural lighting. Alot of them have soffit mounted can lights, but those are minimally effective and are usually placed haphazardly around the house anyway. I hear what you are saying about the home cheapo mentallity on lighting. I did a bid for a guy this week for his front yard. I gave him a smokin deal to get some winter work going. The front yard had around 35 lights all copper, installed for about 6,500. Now this is about a million dollar house and the homeowner had a serious case of sticker shock. He said "I really didn't expect it to be this much". I asked him why he would think that. He replied, "because I have seen the 10 pack kits at home cheapo for (whatever) they go for." After about 20 minutes of explaining the difference between buying crap and having a quallity system designed and installed for you, he began to understand why things cost what they do. He didn't buy that day, but said we would be doing business sometime this year. I am currently installing a system for one of his friends who lives down the street who is trying to sell him for me. I love those referrels.

TXNSLighting
01-27-2008, 12:22 PM
thanks for the input (thats why I posted it) and I considered not putting anything of the technique stuff. In the end I didn't have much more time to spend on it. So thats my 1st attempt. I will get decent pics eventually.

I just got home from officemax and got a few of them printed. I dropped the wife off to get her nails done and drove around for a while.

I live in a very prosperous part of DFW but really it's kinda isolated from the rest of the metroplex by a few miles. Very fast growth a lot of money. So in the time I had I took advantage of it being dark and check out a few of the upper income areas. 2 out of every 5 houses has lighting of some sort. More often than not it line voltage coming from jbox's on the house. So there's tons of opportunity. And this is just a grain of sand on the beach of DFW.

As anyone around here will tell you, LV is mostly unheard of. When you do hear of it they think of cheap. All the old money neighborhoods are lit up with MV lights and as I mentioned in another thread, a lot of those folks would not hear of using anything but the best.

I need to find a way to convey a few facts about LV but still be able to have an affective advertisement like Tim said 3 secs.

Again your probably right about the list of effects. This is my pilot so to speak so it will continue to develop.

Oh and Mike thanks for the compliment on the Logo. I did it myself(thank you) and it's work well so far. When I took it to have some signs made the lady asked if I wanted a job :)
no thank you.

i know what ya mean. very untapped market around this area! We have lots of areas with zero LV lighting. only the line voltage coming off the house. Its been alot of fun trying to make people aware of the Good lighting!

TPnTX
01-27-2008, 12:51 PM
Hey we need to hook up sometime Ryan. I'll PM you my cell if your ever this side of Ft. Worth give a call.

extlights
01-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Hey....I'm going to be moving to N. Texas next June...anyone need any help!? :)

Ok, sorry...back to the subject at hand.

TPnTX
01-27-2008, 07:04 PM
sorry but your'e not hispanic JUST KIDDING JUST KIDDING JUST KIDDING

be sure and look me up you never know. Landscaping, ornamental steel fences and gates and of course lights.

TXNSLighting
01-28-2008, 09:22 AM
Hey we need to hook up sometime Ryan. I'll PM you my cell if your ever this side of Ft. Worth give a call.

got it! will do!

sdsissom
01-28-2008, 06:50 PM
Hi Guys,

New to lighting here and I was wondering, do any of you guys place path lights for your demos? I didn't see any in any of the demo pics posted. Is that something you talk about with the homeowner later?

thx

JoeyD
01-28-2008, 07:10 PM
You can absolutly place path lights with your demoes. It is always good to have one or two not just for them but for you to try and determine your spacing should you be using them along a walk way or staircase. Be prepared to have a few different size hats for your paths and different height stems is a good choice as well as some situations will require a larger or narrow spread. Haveing spare 10 and 20 watt lamps is a good idea as well, you may want to beef up or tone down your lighting. keep in mind you should never go beyond 20w on a residential path unless the homeowner is requiring a very intense light due to vision or what not.

Lite4
01-28-2008, 07:26 PM
You bet, if a path light is warranted I use em.

Pro-Scapes
01-28-2008, 08:01 PM
Ditto that Tim....

We carry a few diff ones. I dont demo all the same ones. Paths are the one item a client should have a good say in since they are so visable. I think I have 4 different pathlights and photos of half a dozen others I recomend.

The only thing we dont really like to demo is tree lights. We do have a light on an extendable pole we use from time to time but have not had it out in quite some time.

TPnTX
01-29-2008, 06:58 AM
I thought about that very thing, a light on an extendable pole. I seems to me that it would really help to sell the lights?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-29-2008, 07:29 AM
Just my opinion here guys, from a guy who doesn't and probably will not ever do demos....

Take along a helper if you are going to be holding up lights on poles and what not. I cannot imagine how one person would look / feel in front of the client after setting up a demo in the day, returning at night to aim it all, then calling out the client for a preview, then running around with lights on poles and what not. How exhausting!

Let the helper do all that so that you can remain calm, cool, and collected in front of the client.

They are supposedly buying these systems from professionals, not from harried, tired, sweaty, excited lighting nerds (Tommy, note I did not say Geek, our of respect for you!)

Better yet... setup your demo on a day/night that the client will not be home. Then leave it there and arrange a meeting at some point after that first evening.

Best of all... get your business to a professional level where you don't have to do these things! If you cannot figure out a means by which to do this, be sure you are covering your soft costs of the demo in the final system price. (Time, Mileage, Materials (depreciation of your demo kit, lamps, connectors etc), labour, take down, return trip) I would think that a suburban residential backyard demo, done right, would be worth between $750 and $1000. Think it through... Add it up... and then charge appropriately.

Regards and happy demo-ing

Lite4
01-29-2008, 09:57 AM
You know James, I bet I could write off my demos as advertising. If I am giving away a free demo, I could have the homeowner sign a document stating the "cost" value of the demo but showing it to them as a no charge "promotion". I am going to have to ask my accountant about this.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-29-2008, 10:37 AM
You know James, I bet I could write off my demos as advertising. If I am giving away a free demo, I could have the homeowner sign a document stating the "cost" value of the demo but showing it to them as a no charge "promotion". I am going to have to ask my accountant about this.

You are absolutely correct. You can do this. Simply create an invoice for the demo, put "Do Not Pay" on it, have the client sign off on the invoice that the work was done, then have your accountant post it as a Promotions and Advertising expense.

Be sure to charge appropriately for these demos... they are costing you time and money.

Regards.

Lite4
02-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Just got home from taking pics.

Pro-Scapes
02-23-2008, 11:50 PM
man you guys got some great looking homes up there. How did you demo the downlights or were they there ? Did you sell it ?

The Lighting Geek
02-23-2008, 11:50 PM
Nice pics. I like the uplighting better, but you probably didn't have much choice on the downlighting. It is difficult with short eaves to get rid of the hotspots. Are they less noticeable than in the picture? I know my camera makes hotspots at times when I can't see any.

Lite4
02-23-2008, 11:57 PM
I unscrewed the eave lights on the house and left the ones on the portico on. They are not as hot as in the picture. I will leave those alone though so they have some area lighting for the egress point of the garage. Yeah, I sold it tonight, and took them to 3 other homes I did in the immediate area. I am also doing thier back yard waterfalls and trees as well. I will be lighting the 4 upper dormers in the final install as well.

Lite4
02-24-2008, 12:02 AM
Man Billy, There are hundreds of homes all over this neighborhood much bigger than this one and they are all dark except for a few soffit mounted lights. The owner says once he gets his in, he knows a couple of friends in the same neighborhood that are going to do it as well. I really had a shocker when I gave him the proposal. He said he was surprised, he was expecting it to cost more. Man, we don't hear that to often.

klkanders
02-24-2008, 12:10 AM
Beautiful house and Nice Job Tim! On the portico did you try 2 lights aimed at peak instead of putting one light on each? Was just wondering what that might look like.
The first pic has very nice balance!

Keith

Pro-Scapes
02-24-2008, 12:18 AM
Man Billy, There are hundreds of homes all over this neighborhood much bigger than this one and they are all dark except for a few soffit mounted lights. The owner says once he gets his in, he knows a couple of friends in the same neighborhood that are going to do it as well. I really had a shocker when I gave him the proposal. He said he was surprised, he was expecting it to cost more. Man, we don't hear that to often.

Good deal. my next one is in a similar area.

Lite4
02-24-2008, 12:39 AM
Go get em Billy.
Thanks Keith, I was going to try the corners but never did. I think I will go out tomorrow and see what that would look like.

Chris J
02-24-2008, 06:47 PM
Now that's a fine looking demo. Please post the final results as I'm sure they will be even more stunning.
One thing though, what's a portico? You'll just have to excuse my ignorance.

The Lighting Geek
02-24-2008, 06:53 PM
Chris,
I was asking myself the same question...

Lite4
02-24-2008, 07:32 PM
A portico is like a carport, but it does not share the same ingress and egress points. Put simply "Its a drive through covered parking area." Picture #2

The Lighting Geek
02-24-2008, 07:49 PM
OK, I get it. What your referring to is a porte-cochere (French porte-cochère, literally "coach door", also called a carriage porch) is the architectural term for a porch or portico-like structure at a main or secondary entrance to a building, through which it is possible for a horse and carriage or motor vehicle to pass, in order for the occupants to alight under cover, protected from the weather.
I stole this from somewhere online...hehe

Lite4
02-26-2008, 11:17 PM
Here comes the next round

Eden Lights
02-26-2008, 11:41 PM
Here comes the next round

Very nice.

barefeetny
02-26-2008, 11:47 PM
wow......

its like being a crack dealer... why sell it when it sells itself.....

firefly.... they look amazing.... if you don't mind me asking.....

what kind of calls are you getting off the front signage?.....
Are you selling hard... or are they jumping into the boat

you were blessed with great houses in your area...Great details

Lite4
02-27-2008, 12:34 AM
Barefoot, I get a few calls. Usually it is someone in the neighborhood that I have dropped a door hanger to prior to setting up the demo. Usually it is just the homeowners who respond mainly. Sometimes they buy, sometimes they don't. It is never an issue whether they want it or not, it is always about the Jacksons.
At least I get some more pics out of it. I am trying a different advertising campaign. I need to get my name out there in a big way. I am in the phone book, but who really looks in there unless you are specifically looking for a lighting guy. My goals are two fold. 1. I want to brand my name by being visible all over the valley with demonstration type work in various neighborhoods. When people think lighting, I want them to remember that very nice demonstration that was set up in their neighborhood that they had to drive by and envy for 4 nights. They will recall my name after seeing it a few times from the sign in the front yard. Sure it may be a pain and a time consumer, but I am going to try it for a year and see what happens. My goal is 2 per week on average. I would like to show in multiple neighborhoods, with showings in the same neighborhoods 3-4 times in a season staggered at 2 month intervals for top of mind recognition.
2. My second purpose is to educate the general public about options other than Malibu and a DIY kit. I would like to try to raise awareness for our industry not only in the residential sector, but I am currently working on trying to win over land developers and commercial property builders and architects on the advantages of 12 volt systems over line voltage, or a balanced blending of the 2 when necessary.

barefeetny
02-27-2008, 01:37 AM
very cool

i'm working on the whole branding thing and allthought not in this particular line of work... i can relate...working good so far.... people recognize my logo on my shirt and can remember seeing the trucks.... and sometimes the work...

once again completly impressed by the results...... i can't wait to start playing in my own yard......

do you just lay your cable on the ground... hide next to house when doing these demos... how do you attach fixtures to structures... zip ties or straps... something like that?

this is so cool... you can't demo a tree, water features, a wall or even mowing service...I guess the possibiltys are pretty high... I'm glad theres not many people doing this work by me at this point...

lots of home depot/ lowes malibu helipads some line voltage but nothing high end low voltage...

NightScenes
02-27-2008, 07:34 AM
Tim this is very nice. One thing that really stands out though is the address/mailbox column near the road is a little too bright. Maybe a 10w with a frosted lens??

Lite4
02-27-2008, 10:04 AM
Paul, It is too bright. I ran out of lenses on the rest of the house and only had a BAB to put in. It's only a demo though, something I threw up in 2 hours. The house is definitely not even close for matched illumination all around the structure, but it is a lightyear ahead of every other house in this subdivision. So I just left it.

Lite4
02-27-2008, 10:12 AM
do you just lay your cable on the ground... hide next to house when doing these demos... how do you attach fixtures to structures... zip ties or straps... something like that?

...

Yeah, I just lay em on the ground and try to push them out of the way. I will chase gutters with wire but will usually just let them hang for the demo. Everybody understands that it is just a temporary display. I will sometimes use zip ties if I need to pull it out of the way or attatch to something though.

Chris J
02-27-2008, 06:57 PM
I don't do demos anymore as most of you know, but occasionally I get the urge to start doing them again in certain situations. After I look at one of Tim's demos, I lose that desire. I never did a demo that intense or time consuming, and to do one of my typical demos now would make me feel inferior. Thanks Tim!

Lite4
02-27-2008, 07:34 PM
sorry Chris, I wouldn't want to give you an inferiority complex, but I think your work would stand up just fine.

Chris J
02-27-2008, 07:48 PM
Thanks Tim. I'm comfortable with the installs that we put out, but those demos you do are out of this world! Every time I see one of the photos I am truly amazed at the professionalism and energy that you put into it. I only wish I had that type of patience with a demonstration. Guys like you are who keep us all on our toes. Keep at it bud, you're going to be one successful dude. (not that you aren't already). payup

Lite4
02-27-2008, 08:56 PM
Thanks for the kind words Chris. I consider you a true pro in this industry, so coming from you those comments are high praise to me. Thank You

Lite4
03-02-2008, 11:03 PM
This one is far from perfect. There are a lot of places to tweak, but hey, its a demo right. Enjoy!

Pro-Scapes
03-03-2008, 07:29 AM
man you guys got some great looking homes out there. What does a home like that sell for ?

TXNSLighting
03-03-2008, 08:45 AM
outstanding tim. definately some beautiful homes out there.

The Lighting Geek
03-03-2008, 09:23 AM
very nice, Tim!

One thing I do to help with the pesky 'V's is to lay a frosted lense on top of the bulb if you are using well lights. I use quite a few BigBangs out in the landscape and save some of the lenses to help with demo's. It always helps too to drop a few in with the customer present to help differeniate yourself as well. I tr not to use linear spread lenses in demos because they have a bad habit of rotating by themselves and then it looks even worse.

JoeyD
03-03-2008, 09:45 AM
Looks great Tim!! Good advice Tommy.

Lite4
03-03-2008, 10:23 AM
Yeah I didn't have my lenses with me. I really need to buy a trailer this spring to keep all my poop in a group. billy this house sells for around 2 mil. It also has a large lake with 2 waterfalls behind it as well as an incredible view of our mountains. The exterior of the house is nothing extraordinary. Wait until you see the architecture of the house I am demoing on Fri.
Thanks guys.

Mike M
03-03-2008, 05:58 PM
Tom not only do your demo's always look great, but you could start a career as a professional photographer!!

Lite4
03-03-2008, 07:29 PM
Thanks for the kind words Mike. I am still just learning this photography racket, but one of my goals this year is to really improve and start taking some incredible pics. I have recently kind of realized, you may have the best looking lighting job, but if the photos stink it really puts a damper on the whole sales process. Conversely, you may have a very simple lighting scene but if it is photographed correctly, it can sell you a ton. Just my opinion.

Mike M
03-03-2008, 08:44 PM
correction "Tim"; funny, I said to myself write tim not tom and I wrote tom.

Lite4
03-08-2008, 11:27 PM
Here is another one. Don't critisize me too much for the varied light and patterns. It is just a demo you know. Sorry, the light in some of the pics looks a little hot. I got to talking with the homeowner and it got dark on me a little fast. Enjoy

klkanders
03-09-2008, 12:44 AM
Tim, Nice set-up!
I'm sure the homeowners have a good idea now what your abilities are! I bet after looking at the pics you thought of different things to try. Another beautiful home!
It was mentioned in another thread that certain style homes and even where they are located puts emphasis on whether to use Architectural or Landscape lighting. I would love to be challenged with the types of homes you have been showing us! Keep it up!

Lite4
03-09-2008, 03:01 AM
Thanks, you will notice from the street pic that the house is huge, but once again there is no landscaping. So I am left with only the house to light, but I can live with that when they look like this one.

Venturewest
03-09-2008, 09:58 AM
Incredible house and great demo Tim. I can only imagine what it must look like driving into that neighborhood at night, and seeing that huge beautiful home lit up like that. There is no way the neighbors can miss that! Awesome.

I am not sure what the little "towers" on the roof are called...(cupolas?) but they look really nice. How long did that set up take you?

Lite4
03-09-2008, 10:43 AM
Thanks Ron. It took 6 hours to set up. I have had a few of the neighbors come and talk to me already. Last night when I was shooting photos the owners had some friends over who were walking around outside looking at it too. They couldn't believe the difference. There are literally no lights on this house with the exception of 2 cans over the garage and 2 carriage lights by the front door. The wife is completely sold which is 90% of the sale, so I am pretty confident about this one.

JoeyD
03-10-2008, 09:28 AM
Amazing Demo Tim!!

The Lighting Geek
03-11-2008, 12:29 AM
Nice demo, Tim! Glad you don't live near me..LOL

Mike M
03-11-2008, 09:07 AM
6 hours. Holy crap. I get so tired after 3, I forget to take pics. I can definitely see the benefit to multiple day demo's. For one, you can take a picture the next day, when everything is already aimed, and you still have some ambient daylight. And energy to compose shots!!

Lite4
03-11-2008, 09:26 AM
Mike, I seldom ever take photos the same day. Like you said it is usually the next day after I hang all the neighborhood doorhangers. My goal of the demos are starting to see some results. I have had 3 builders approach me lately about their housing and commercial properties. They are seeing how I am able to create better lighting conditions that "show" the property better than the typical high volt soffit lights they all use. I tell them we are just trying to change some misconceptions and show them some alternatives to what they are currently doing by advertising demos in the neighborhoods for people to see. I would love to start seeing the local building industry start getting away from the glare bombs they put on their buildings in exchange for a much softer more appealing look, while keeping everyones rods in their eyes intact.

NightScenes
03-11-2008, 09:31 AM
6 hours. Holy crap. I get so tired after 3, I forget to take pics. I can definitely see the benefit to multiple day demo's. For one, you can take a picture the next day, when everything is already aimed, and you still have some ambient daylight. And energy to compose shots!!

This is a VERY nice demo but I was thinking, damn a whole day setting up a "demo" instead of installing a system that's already a done deal. The only way I could see doing this is if there was nothing else to do that day. I sure hope you add it to your final proposal so you can make a little money for all of that time.

Lite4
03-11-2008, 09:40 AM
Paul, I won't lie. It is a pain setting these things up, but, I have to come back to my goals for the year. Showing demos in targeted neighborhoods to raise the overall awareness to the public about lighting, as well as a substitution for direct mail. They don't always sell right away, but I have got to believe it is making an impact overall for the industry. Isn't this what the AOLP is all about? I am not in this for the short term, so I expect I will see some fruit from this, even if it is not immediate. Also, I set it up at the end of the work day. I was done at 10:30 that night.

NightScenes
03-11-2008, 09:42 AM
I see what you are saying Tim. Go get em!!

JoeyD
03-11-2008, 09:47 AM
Tim what you are doing does and will pay off. Not only are you perfecting your design craft, you are getting your name out and getting live face to face marketing on a daily basis. Something a lot of these guys cant say who do not do or want to do demos. It is true that he who does the most demos will make the most money per job. I say that becuase your jobs wont be cut short becuase the homeowner cant visualize why all the columns need lighting, or why a tree needs 3 lights not just one. It is no different then that athlete who puts in an extra 3 hours of practice after the rest of the team has left. It always pays off, and your door hanging the neighborhoods, so even if that homeowner doesnt bite someone else int hat neighborhood may. And when they think of landscape lighting they are going to think of that guy firefly who was out setting up lights down the street. Keep up the hard work, it will pay off. Sure working late sucks but cashing a fat check makes it all worth it.

Lite4
03-11-2008, 09:55 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Joey, I have got to set myself apart from the other guys around here. Top of mind and all that you know.

Summerscapes
03-11-2008, 10:01 AM
Tim - you're an inspiration...

Lite4
03-11-2008, 10:09 AM
I will tell you this, the cold call demo has gotten me into neighborhoods and in touch with builders and developers I could not easily have reached without them, or at least they would not have taken me seriously without personally seeing the results. Start setting them up and you will see what I mean.

JoeyD
03-11-2008, 11:08 AM
Anyone who has followed Unique Lighting for the last 12 years will tell you that we beat the demo into your head as the best way to get your lighting buisness to a succesfull level. We have helped guys go from a complete rookie to a succesfull lighting professional because of the demo. You do not have to be able to sell ice to an eskimoe if you use a demo. The demo allows you to sell your artistic ability without so many words.

I know that I can get in front of a homeowner and talk untill I am blue in the face about the lighting I want to see done and want to perform but most of the time the only thing they here is CHA CHING, CHA CHING, CASINO, DISNEYLAND, EXPENSIVE...."100 lights AHHHHHHHHHH"...The demo gives them a visual that other wise they couldnt imagine and appreciate. Now I can say see this is what I mean by moonlighting, or this is why you dont want 10 pathlights here, this is why I want to cross light this and silloute that. See the demo is like test driving the car. Who goes and buys a car without test driving it? No one unless you are insanely rich or you have seen it before and sat in with your friend while he test drove it, similar to that neighbor who sees the lighting you did on the neighbors home, or his relatives home....Now he doesnt need the demo or test drive because he knows what you are capable of doing, he trusts you.

The demo isnt just for the guys who are new to lighting or are poor at selling. The demo is used by guys who like to upsell every job by showing a homeowner why a tree needs 3 lights and not one. The demo is used by guys who want to know if 20w or 35w is the right light for this plant or wall. The demo is used by guys who dont have someone working out the photometrics on plan so they need to know how far apart to space their wall fixtures, step lights, and area lights. The demo is used by guys who want to make more money weather they are rookies or seasoned professionals.

Are their downsides to the demo? Sure, you have to work later, lug the kit around in your truck, set it up, tear it down, risk not getting the job after you do the demo, and you have to buy the demo kit. But the positive of having to buy a fatter wallet to hold all the extra cash is prety nice. Getting the job over the half price truck slammer is nice too, and allowing the whole neighborhood to see your work in one shot isnt a bad thing.

Some hate them, some love them, but one thing remains the same, when times get ruff and the competition gets thick, the guy doing the best and the most demos will win the most jobs.

Sorry for the rambling...my fingers are on fire!!!

Joey D.

Lite4
03-11-2008, 12:11 PM
Good post Joey, Thanks.

The Lighting Geek
03-11-2008, 09:13 PM
I am on my way out to do a demo tonight on a job that is sold. The reason I am doing this one is, to really sink it with the customer and to do my layout. I can use the demo in this case to answer questions and test out some situations with the customer. My guys then just show up exchange fixtures and it will be perfect. I don't do this for every customer, but this is a major landscape architect and it helps me build his confidence in my abilities and design strategies. Oh and he designs all the In and Out Burgers' landscapes in northern California.

The Lighting Geek
03-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Tim I believe you are doing the right thing by using the demo the way you do. I know first hand it means some late nights, but it will be like adding nitrous bottle to your business and you will meet or beat your goals because of it. It is exactly what helped me double my business last year.

Chris J
03-11-2008, 10:04 PM
I just got back from doing the first demo that I've done in a very long time! I only did it because there is this new "town" that is being built (yes town) within a very prominent part of the district and the lady said she needed to see it. I have dreaded this for two weeks because I knew she was getting several other demos as well. I showed up 30 minutes before dark, set up my version of a demo (quick and easy 20 lights) and then it started to rain on me! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH`! Once it stopped raining, I brought her out, explained the layout and she said "that's exactly the way I wanted it!" SOLD! I can't remember the last time I've ever been so pissed off over making 4k.

Lite4
03-12-2008, 12:32 AM
Thanks for the encouragement Tommy, I am looking forward to a great year. My website will be done in just about another week or so, right before my show, so I can point all my prospects there too. I bought photodex this week for my slideshow. This thing is amazing, I started making DVDs to loan to my prospects with a 15 minute slideshow presentation set to some really nice jazz. You can do some amazing things with this product.
Chris, 4k is definitely worth a few raindrops. If it is a new area like you say, it won't be your last one there to be sure. One always seems to lead to another. Good to hear you getting out there. Tommy check your PM

Lite4
04-27-2008, 01:36 AM
Time to resurect this thread. Last nights demo front and back yards.

The Lighting Geek
04-27-2008, 02:58 AM
Nice demo Tim!

JoeyD
04-28-2008, 03:50 PM
I would be sold!! Great job Tim!!

Lite4
05-07-2008, 09:22 AM
current demo

Venturewest
05-07-2008, 10:00 AM
You should do freelance photography for lighting manus. Most manus could swap your photos right out and instantly have much better looking literature. Hope you sell it Tim.

JoeyD
05-07-2008, 11:59 AM
Very nice as usual Tim! You are getting better and better!!!

The Lighting Geek
05-07-2008, 12:13 PM
Nice job Tim! I will be surprised if they don't bite on that.

Lite4
05-07-2008, 04:27 PM
The job already had a 2,600 dollar budget for lighting set by the landscaper. They just had their landscaping installed and it has eaten up all of their budget. Looks like it is only going to be about 14 lights on this one. The demo had 40 and it still wasn't complete. Oh well, seems like the year for tiny jobs.

NightLightingFX
05-07-2008, 05:17 PM
Tim,
Awsome work. If the customers don't want to get the system after those great demos what else can a brother do? Curious, how are you getting these demos. Are you finding a great house to light and knocking on the door and setting up a demo?
~Ned

Chris J
05-07-2008, 06:54 PM
Another Nice One! What have you found to be the easiest way to get your wire to those columns in front of the gargage? Boring, or do you pull up the pavers?

Pro-Scapes
05-07-2008, 09:42 PM
Man maybe I need to look again at pars. Tims always look so nice. I tried a couple on a demo and my 35w 60 degree with a frosted lens looked just as nice but I really had to set it alot further back.

How far back are you on your placements tim ? Drop me another email. My computer crashed and I lost yours.

Lite4
05-08-2008, 06:19 AM
Ned, This job was a referral from a landscaper. They had figuired a small amount into the budget for lighting already, I just upped the ante a little bit.

Chris, I will core drill the holes for the lights that will be set into the concrete. I will flush mount some brass Nova Stars. The wire chases will be short from the holes to the beds. There is already sleeving installed for the irrigation to these beds. I will use it to chase my wire.

Billy, I have a combination of pars and MRs. I used the pars on the stone facade and MRs on the stucco. My pars are usually between 18 - 24 inches off the wall. The light levels are a little mismatched on this one, but that will be corrected on the final install if I can talk them into the whole tamale. I started setting up this demo at 9 PM on monday evening and I finished at 12:30, so I was a little tired near the end and thought the light levels were ok for the demo.

Lite4
05-11-2008, 08:43 AM
Finally, Someone that has some trees around their house.

TXNSLighting
05-11-2008, 10:32 AM
That looks fantastic tim! love the trees!

Pro-Scapes
05-11-2008, 11:11 AM
looks nice... very dramatic. Come to think of it its rare we see you working with trees. Guess you had to learn what a tree root is sooner or later :)

Lite4
05-11-2008, 02:15 PM
It was fun. It seams I am mostly getting calls for work in areas that are newly developed and have tiny little trees. I have learned a few things about the big ones and will have to refine my tecniques a bit. I set up a string of the flying firefly lights right down by the waters edge. They loved em. I couldn't believe how realistic they looked.

The Lighting Geek
05-11-2008, 02:40 PM
Tim, you are the man. Feels great to be in the groove, doesn't it? It is very addicting in a sorta monetary way...lol

Lite4
05-11-2008, 05:33 PM
Yes, Monitary. "Will light for food!"

The Lighting Geek
05-11-2008, 09:40 PM
Here are a couple of pics from a demo I did last week on a small courtyard.

Lite4
05-12-2008, 12:14 AM
cool effect behind the wire rack and ferns.

David Gretzmier
05-13-2008, 12:10 AM
nice cherubs. good voltage- white light good. :)yellow light :nono:

David Gretzmier
05-17-2008, 12:52 AM
Did several demo's this week. one more tomorrow night. Gotta tell you, these, coupled with no work stopping rain during the day this week has run me down. I go to the demo about 7:30, takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to set up, by then it is dark, I show the homeowner, they tweak it by having me move fixtures, usuall, 30 minutes or so, and then I do a quick 15 minute bid on our color preprinted bid forms. Submit bid, clarify questions, and then either close or "think about it" and then gather up demo kit. I have been getting home at 10:30 , 11pm, and after working lights/landscape maintenance from 8am to 6pm or so, I'm beat.

When it has been a client I have done business with before, usually Christmas lights, they have bought on the spot. I'm always happy when I come home late those nights.

but new folks tend to want to think about it. I've closed on in the past 2 weeks, and I've got a few folks"thinking" right now. If I come home past 10pm 3 nights in a row and no closes, I start questioning my methods.

Any body got a better system? I'm not so sure that doing demos every night and closing 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 3 is gonna make my weeks full unless I am closing the 7k-10k jobs.

Lite4
05-17-2008, 03:00 AM
Got home tonight at 11:00 from a demo setup. It sucks that it makes the nights so long after an already long workday, but I did the one, two, three countdown with them and within 60 seconds they said write up a proposal. I am leaving it up until monday. It is only about 25 lights and some fiber optic in the waterfalls. This demo was done on my last landscape job before I go full time into lighting. It goes without saying I am a little bit more than nervous about it, but I can no longer do both jobs. My schedule is just simply getting too full. I will take some photos on Sunday night and post them here. The waterfall looks pretty cool.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-17-2008, 07:58 AM
When it has been a client I have done business with before, usually Christmas lights, they have bought on the spot. I'm always happy when I come home late those nights.

but new folks tend to want to think about it. I've closed on in the past 2 weeks, and I've got a few folks"thinking" right now. If I come home past 10pm 3 nights in a row and no closes, I start questioning my methods.

Any body got a better system? I'm not so sure that doing demos every night and closing 1 out of 4 or 1 out of 3 is gonna make my weeks full unless I am closing the 7k-10k jobs.

David let me compare and contrast your day with mine for just a minute... Similar sounding day, much different approach and outcome.

I sent my installer ahead of me to get onto what should have been the last 6 hours of a small installation while I ran around doing errands. I arrived on site at 11am or so and started installing "my zone" at the site. I had a 5pm meeting with a new prospect whom I have never met. At 4pm I realized I would not get my installation finished in time so I called the prospect and asked if I could be an hour late. No problems.

We finished the installation, walked the clients through it all, then I changed into some 'nice' clothes and headed to the prospect's house to sell a $xx,xxx. system. I arrived an hour later then I had planned and was met by a very nice, easy going guy who insisted that I join him and his friends & have a cocktail with them on the deck. We chatted a bit, nothing to do about lighting, and then he asked me if there was anything he really needed to know about lighting his property. I asked him if he enjoyed surprises and he laughed and said "sure, who doesnt?" I asked if he would like to go and see a system that I had installed in the local area, he was happy to just chill at his cottage. I presented the proposal, he commented on "the number", I explained it a bit and then he signed off. We chatted some more, I finished my refreshment and headed home cheque in hand.

So, we both worked all day, we both met prospects in the evening, we both got home late. The difference? Hard to say because there are so many variables. One big difference I feel is how the client perceives us, our mood, our confidence, etc. etc.

I think scrambling around setting up and then moving a demo sort of belittles you in the client's eyes. It actually steals some of their confidence in you away from the process. I have never understood the demo for this very reason. Compare our business to any other of a similar or even different nature... who else does a full scale demonstration of their ability? I cant think of any off the top of my head. So, why do it?

There was a key difference in our approaches... I offered to take my then prospect, now new client, out to see another property I had done. Having something to show the prospect, be it a portfolio or installed work (or a demo) can be very important, but why would you want to go to all the time, expense and hassle of setting up a demo? If they really need to see your work, then take them to another property. It is a great way to get to know each other and they get to see your capabilities and everything is just that much more relaxed and enjoyable.

Instead of doing a demo next time, offer to take the client out to an existing job instead. It is an effective, enjoyable, an comparatively relaxing way to build client confidence and get their commitment.

Have a great day.

jana
05-17-2008, 09:34 AM
Here are a couple of pics from a demo I did last week on a small courtyard.

Real nice how you can not see the base of the fountain.

What fixture, and lamp, are you using below the wire rack, it looks kinda short?

Real nice. Thx.

extlights
05-17-2008, 10:03 AM
I think scrambling around setting up and then moving a demo sort of belittles you in the client's eyes. It actually steals some of their confidence in you away from the process. I have never understood the demo for this very reason. Compare our business to any other of a similar or even different nature... who else does a full scale demonstration of their ability? I cant think of any off the top of my head. So, why do it?


We've gotten 4 projects this year because of the demo alone(we got a late start)....so is doing demo's worth it in my mind? absolutely. We are booked out everynight with demo's for the next 2 1/2 weeks and with the closing rate that we usually achieve with doing demo's it looks like we are going to be jam packed with work for quite a while. Saying that doing demo's belittles a person in a client's eyes is a blunderous statement in my opinion. It's a great sales tool and you can use it to your advantage in many ways...including showing the passion that you have for the industry and showcasing your design techniques. We have never had anything but praise from our customers...(even people who didn't buy) because of our demo's. In our market it puts us one step ahead of our competition who doesn't offer it.

Lite4
05-17-2008, 11:49 AM
James,
I agree with you that for certain clients a demo is not necessary. Especially when they are probably a referral from one of your previous clients. Showing them an existing job works sometimes, but often they will have various charactestics on their property that are unlike what you may be showing them at another residence, so there may be a slight disconnect for them on certain areas. you may get a, well this looks very nice, but my property looks completely different, how are you going to light mine.
This being said, I would very much like to have the day you had rather than mine setting up a demo. I think however your reputation is such in the community and you have been there so long that people have networked among themselves enough to know you are the best and to just let you do your thing. As a newer company, I do not have that luxery yet and I must build that reputation a little at a time. Eventually, I may be able to start phasing out the demo, but it is a good sales tool though. I am starting a job on Tuesday. When I was collecting a signed contract and check, he very frankly said, "If it wasn't for you setting up that demonstration, you and I would not be sitting at my table right now". Pretty tough to argue that point from the side of the demo. Some people just have to see it.

Chris J
05-18-2008, 08:50 PM
When deciding if demos are the "right thing" to do, one must ask themself this question: How many other contractors are there around you who are willing to do it, and what do you think the customer will think of you if you refuse?
Around here, one of the first things that comes out of a caller's mouth is "do you do the demo?" Again, this is because of the extreme number of lighting contractors here who do demos (and for free). I usually try my best to explain why I don't do the demo, but inevitably I feel like the potential customer is frowning on the other end of the phone because they are viewing this as a service that they can get elsewhere, and from everybody else. If there were not so many franchises, and start ups advertising "CALL NOW FOR A FREE DEMONSTRATION AT YOUR HOME!!!!!) I believe my closing rate would be more like it was in my first 5 years. If people are not conditioned to expect a demo, they won't have a problem with a design consultation (even for a fee). If you live in an area where the demos are pushed heavily, then I guess you need to either be a real good salesman, or have a really good portfolio (or both).

David Gretzmier
05-18-2008, 09:19 PM
James, I love the day you describe. I have had days like that in Christmas lights. My reputation allows me that, and I don't demo that. I can close those jobs at around 33% in about 75-90 minutes time. I can easily do three of those appointments a night.

I am the only one here offering demo's, so it definetly puts me ahead of the game. If contractor A bids 4,000 for a 30 light job, no demo, and I demo and bid the same job for 30 fixtures at 6500, I usually get those jobs. I have heard similar comments as firefly- "I would not be spending this if I had not seen it with my own eyes."

Going to do a backyard add- on demo tonight in ten minutes or so- deck lights, path's around pool beds, and he would not be buying without the demo.

once my reputation is set about landscape lighting in 5 years or so, maybe I can just show them jobs around the block. but not today or this year or the next.

Chris J
05-18-2008, 10:02 PM
James, I love the day you describe. I have had days like that in Christmas lights. My reputation allows me that, and I don't demo that. I can close those jobs at around 33% in about 75-90 minutes time. I can easily do three of those appointments a night.

I am the only one here offering demo's, so it definetly puts me ahead of the game. If contractor A bids 4,000 for a 30 light job, no demo, and I demo and bid the same job for 30 fixtures at 6500, I usually get those jobs. I have heard similar comments as firefly- "I would not be spending this if I had not seen it with my own eyes."

Going to do a backyard add- on demo tonight in ten minutes or so- deck lights, path's around pool beds, and he would not be buying without the demo.

once my reputation is set about landscape lighting in 5 years or so, maybe I can just show them jobs around the block. but not today or this year or the next.

David,
What have you found to be your closing % in outdoor lighting? 33% for Christmas lights seems kind of low since people just don't have that much time to procrastinate during the holiday season. Given your reputation, I would have thought your Christmas lighting percentage would be much, much higher.
If you are the only one doing the demo, you should be around 85-95% if you are targeting the correct people. I'm curious to know what the real numbers are in your situation. This is really fascinating as it is rare that one particular contractor is the only one in an area that offers this. If that is really the case, you are probably getting ready to open up a can of worms. In five years, when you want to quit the demoing, you may have 50 competitors who are offering demos. Then you won't be able to stop.
FYI, and I'm sure you already know this, one can do 5-8 estimates in a 8-10 hour day. Even at the low end, and considering only a 20% closing ratio, that is still 5 jobs per week! You can only do one demo per night, so even if you close 90% your still under the guy closing 20% of his estimates (and he is at home with his family at night). I'm rambling now, so I'll stop it.....

Eden Lights
05-18-2008, 10:43 PM
Some companies use part time/moonlighting or commissioned only personnel to do demos. These people have limited experience but know how to set some pars around and wow the client that doesn't know the difference. The right person could really be good at this and the right company could really make some money by using this model. ( massive advertising, demo demo demo, install, and disappear). The guys around this forum I think want to reach a higher level of design professionalism and I don't see a typical sales demo in any way being a design tool for anyone!! Paid design mock ups in special situations where you need the visual trial for a design decision, but not free demos. The job that I hope to finish tomorrrow involved about 24 hours of trimming, pruning, plant relocating, and bed enlargment before the first foot of wire was laid out, how would you demo a property that needs that kind of preperation for proper fixture placements??

seolatlanta
05-18-2008, 11:28 PM
Eddie

The same thing used to go on here- a large franchise had a sales guy that used to set up demos out of the back of an Acura hatchback. I know for a while he was doing at least 2 demos a night!

It was like stealing candy from a baby! I took so many jobs from him , because believe it or not , folks dont want to spend 5k with a guy setting up lights in a small import car and he had no idea what he was talking about.

He told some homeowners they could run these huge 120 volt posts with his transformer!!

In a friends nieghborhood his landscaper set up a demo that has been there a month. It rained real hard the other night and it washed all the well lights into the drainage area down the front slope.;)

David Gretzmier
05-18-2008, 11:52 PM
To reply to chris- I've probably read a 1/2 dozen or so sales books, skimmed a dozen others, and all them say pretty much the same thing- If you follow most of the person to person sales training the books reccomend, and your close ratio is above 35-40%, you are undercharging for your services. if you are closing below 25% you are overcharging for your services.

It was the same when I sold cars or landscape install and service. You set your advertising budget based on how many bids you can do. based on closing about 33%, and that 33% is your desired sales goal. You get enough bids, you make your goal. if you are selling properly, the only factor is the price that can affect your close ratio.

Sure, you could lower your price and close more, but you have to do more jobs to get the same total dollar profit. I'd feel great if i closed 70-90% of my bids:clapping:, but I'd be a fool not to raise my prices and advertise more to make more bucks.

as far as Christmas lights, i did about 120 bids last year and closed 41 new customers. the average new sale was around $3000. so, closing 125k in new work for new customers, 90% of which is between Nov 1st to Dec 5th or so, ain't too shabby. :dancing: at around 250k in new and rehang customers, we're the biggest and best Christmas light company, probably in a 100 mile radius. but it makes no sense to me to lower prices so I can close 20 more jobs at less profit per each job. it's already crazy enough running this thing with the customers we have.

I expect my close ratio to be low on landscape lighting as I build my reputation and expertise. i'll keep my prices lower than I'd like, and then raise them as I see my close ratio creeping above 40%.

David Gretzmier
05-18-2008, 11:55 PM
by the way, closed the demo tonight. 22 fixtures. deck lighting and paths around the pool. demo strikes again ! no calls on my last 2 though..1 out of three... 33%....

seolatlanta
05-19-2008, 07:07 AM
Good Work David,

I think what I was trying to say is that working hard never hurt and working smart makes it that much better.

A large , nationwide co. setting up demos out of an Acura is not working smart.

Chris J
05-19-2008, 07:43 AM
by the way, closed the demo tonight. 22 fixtures. deck lighting and paths around the pool. demo strikes again ! no calls on my last 2 though..1 out of three... 33%....

I agree with what you are say David. No argument here. 33% is a good number to go by under your theory, but I'm simply saying that you can do more estimates during the day than you can do demos. It's just a matter of getting enough calls.
Either way, your an intelligent businessman and I'm sure you will do well

The Lighting Geek
05-19-2008, 02:40 PM
Real nice how you can not see the base of the fountain.

What fixture, and lamp, are you using below the wire rack, it looks kinda short?

Real nice. Thx.

I used a par well light with the bottom cut off. you can't see it during the day where i have it placed. I am using copper tubing (thanks Joey for the idea) to hide the wire.

JoeyD
05-20-2008, 09:45 AM
The Demo battle continues. Not everyone likes them, uses them, or needs them. But it is a technique that if performed correctly works very well. There will always be a good argument against the use of them. Eddie had a good one about the landscape not yet being ready for lights. Usually you will hear guys say they dont wan to be working late, or creating a visual design the homeowner can then steal, etc..

But one thing remains the same, homeowners dont know how to do lighting. Most think there home only needs 10-20 lights when in reality they need 50. What better way to show them then a demo/mock up.

David Gretzmier
05-20-2008, 09:32 PM
Joey- spoken like a guy who sells lights !

The demo strikes again. I closed another job this morning on a demo I did a week back. I asked specifically if she would have done it without the demo. her answer was "not as much" and that is telling. a 12 fixture job bid during the day can turn into a closed sale of 23 fixtures at night. which job do you want to install?

JoeyD
05-21-2008, 09:53 AM
Joey- spoken like a guy who sells lights !

The demo strikes again. I closed another job this morning on a demo I did a week back. I asked specifically if she would have done it without the demo. her answer was "not as much" and that is telling. a 12 fixture job bid during the day can turn into a closed sale of 23 fixtures at night. which job do you want to install?

me sell lights? NEVER! ;) LOL

Sounds like you have some success with the techniques we have been preaching for years. Want to make more money and increase the ammount of needed fixtures in your installs.........DEMO DEMO DEMO!!

Congrats David!!:clapping:

Venturewest
06-27-2008, 11:11 AM
Here is a photo from a very small demo. I sold the 52 fixture job. I will post photos when it is finished. Excuse the terrible point and shoot digital. I swear the hot spots dont look hot in person.

Lite4
07-04-2008, 01:43 PM
Small setup last night. I have to take more pics of some closeups. Will post another day. I was only able to shoot one before the homeowner corralled me and started asking questions.

TXNSLighting
07-04-2008, 03:27 PM
Not to shabby!

Lite4
07-04-2008, 03:44 PM
After looking at the pics, I can see a lot of areas where I need to adjust the light levels and the overall depth of the light.

TXNSLighting
07-04-2008, 06:36 PM
definately a little dark in areas. and doesnt seem like a house that would get lighting. but good times.

The Lighting Geek
07-05-2008, 12:30 PM
I like the solar lights myself...LOL
Nice demo Tim

Lite4
07-05-2008, 01:15 PM
I am trying to negotiate a deal that if she will be my project, I get to take the solars home. :laugh:

David Gretzmier
07-05-2008, 11:12 PM
Tim- you probably have answered this 10 times, but what camera do you use ? your photo's are clear as a bell, and mine are muddy at best. I am hoping to find a good used SLR to build my portfolio.

Lite4
07-06-2008, 01:29 AM
Nikon D40x, about a 20mm focal length, 800 ISO, 8 second exposure, my white balance is set for incandescent light on that particular photo.

Lite4
07-22-2008, 01:24 AM
A few pics from a small demo I set up tonight. Sorry, the pics are a little over exposed. It got a little too dark before I could break out the camera.

JoeyD
07-22-2008, 10:33 AM
as usual Tim, great work! The trees look awesome!

pihta
09-02-2008, 11:06 AM
Here's from yesterdays demo

Lite4
09-02-2008, 01:01 PM
Egor,
very nice. Dang, They have better architecture in Moscow than they do in Boise. I am jealous. Nice work, hope you get the job!

Chris J
09-02-2008, 02:52 PM
I like how you back lit the columns under the dome rather than front lighting. Looks great!

Lite4
09-02-2008, 04:42 PM
Pretty soon we are going to see a lighting demo at the Kremlin! Get ol Vladamir to cut loose some his $ so you can light up his life!

pihta
09-03-2008, 05:24 AM
Thanks Tim & Chris

Unfortunately almost every old'n'beauty building in the center of Moscow is already lit. Kremlin of course too. :) But there are a lot of opportunities around Moscow, in all new towns and villages.

So that demo was in a such settlement near Moscow. It consists of houses made with from a few designs. We lit demo house, so others can look at it and decide to lit their or not.
This sculpture group and pavilion is on the entrance to this 'village' so we lit them too.

So here's the house.

Building is not finished yet, so there will be wall-mounted fixtures on the left and right from entrance and on the second and third story too. We just simulated them with two F125's on the first and 1 F125 on the second story. Just to make them to so dark.

JoeyD
09-03-2008, 11:20 AM
WOW! Great job Egor!!! The picture quality is very good and the lighting design even better!

irrig8r
09-03-2008, 11:56 AM
Really nice effects.

How many fixtures and which ones?

I think I count eight on the lowest level, six on the middle and four on top....and all uplights?

(Could be five on the middle level, but that would be with something like a PAR 36 in the very center of the balcony, which would probably be a huge glare bomb as seen from the inside, no?)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-03-2008, 03:16 PM
You show some really wonderful work there Egor! The photography is excellent too.

Have a great day.

pihta
09-04-2008, 01:49 AM
Really nice effects.

How many fixtures and which ones?

I think I count eight on the lowest level, six on the middle and four on top....and all uplights?

(Could be five on the middle level, but that would be with something like a PAR 36 in the very center of the balcony, which would probably be a huge glare bomb as seen from the inside, no?)

Thanks guys!

Lowest level - 4 PAR36 (ApolloStar) on the ground (2 in front of the wall and 2 on the angles), 4 MR16 on the columns (Probe-OSM), 2 PAR36 on the floor of the entrance (they will be removed, just placed them to simulate future on-wall scounces)

Mid-level - 4 MR16 on the columns, 1 PAR36 on the floor to simulate future wall scounces (placed only for demo)

Top-level - 4 small floods (Stellar), 2 flush-mount MR16 (Nova) on the floor (plus there will be 2 wall scounces)

Wall scounces will be high-voltage ones, we'll choose something with open(glass) top so it can lit ceiling too and with matte bulbs. Everything to minimize glare. Up-down fixtures like Orion will not works the same way, they will not lit as much as we need.

EOL
09-20-2008, 11:40 AM
Here are some demo pics I did on the Texas Alamo here in San Antonio, Texas:usflag:

pihta
09-20-2008, 12:47 PM
Wow! What a beautiful ... stuff. What is it?
Remembers me egyptian pyramids.

NightLightingFX
09-20-2008, 01:35 PM
Hi Efrain,
Ned Hastings here from the AOLP, good to hear from you. That is GREAT! What a neat landmark to light. I am way up here in the Northwest, I have never visited the Alamo before, but I can identify with it. I would do that job for free just for the exposure. What a great marking piece. I have to brainstorm to find something in my area that is well known that could be really enhanced when lit.
P.S. Have you lit that old oak tree yet that you talked about at the last AOLP meeting?
P.S.S Is that pic taken with the camera that you had at the AOLP meeting? The pic turned out pretty good.
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
09-20-2008, 04:33 PM
I would do that job for free just for the exposure. What a great marking piece. I have to brainstorm to find something in my area that is well known that could be really enhanced when lit.~Ned

NOW you are on to something Ned! What a remarkable way to get your product, service & business name in front of those who can actually appreciate your work and are in the market for such things. (hmmm, where have I heard of an ideal like this actually working?? :) )

The best part of such marketing efforts is that the 'shelf life' of your message is essetially forever. Just make sure that the beneficiaries of the system will agree to refer you in perpetuity and that they allow you to service it on an on-going basis.

Choose your location(s) carefully, and ensure that the audience is comprised of your target market.

Enjoy!

Mike M
09-20-2008, 05:31 PM
I left my bike in the basement there.

EOL
09-21-2008, 01:17 PM
Thanks. I will be lighting this historical structure here in the near future and some other buildings and some super old oaks that are on the property. The other oak that we talked about at the AOLP conference I also lit. I went ahead and entered them in the C.O.L.D task that they gave us to do before our second meeting at the conference. I have a before pic of the Alamo if you havent seen it with the existing lighting. I also took a picture of the big ball park lighting that blasts this gorgeous limestone structure with super hot lights. YYUUCCKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lite4
09-21-2008, 08:52 PM
Very, very nice. What an outstanding project to do. That will be some great exposure for you. Congratulations!

The Lighting Geek
09-21-2008, 10:24 PM
that is a once in great while type of job. Looks great and like you will be getting a great subject for your portfolio!

JoeyD
09-21-2008, 11:15 PM
wow efrain!!! Talk about landing a awesome project to light!! It doesnt get any better than that from a credibility stand point!! This should become your flagship project!!! Let me know if I can help in anyway!!!!!