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View Full Version : 247 MTL vs T190 CTL (pics)


bobcat_ron
11-23-2007, 08:37 PM
So here are the comparison pics between my T190 and the 247B2 I got on demo from Finning.

**This is not a direct comparison between the 2 machines, the CAT has 1400 lbs ROC and the 190 has 1900 lbs ROC, I am aware of that, this is mainly to compare the physical difference between the 2 rivals**
Side by side shots, both are the same length and the CAT is 2" taller and 2" less ground clearance:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures129.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures130.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures131.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures132.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures133.jpg

Doors open at the same angle, CAT is alot heavier and taller, but narrower and the CAT has the advantage with visibility, no wiper motor that you have to look around to see the cutting edge.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures135.jpg

Quick attach, CAT is better protected, my cylinder was repaired due to rocks scratching the piston shaft, but I noticed how badly the mud got packed under the dual cylinders of the CAT Q/A.
Bobcat:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures137.jpg
CAT:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures136.jpg

Visibility to the Cutting Edge, same on both models, but hooking up to attachments on the CAT was more difficult:
Bobcat:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures134.jpg
CAT:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures125.jpg

Excellent visibility to the top of the rear of the tracks, same as the Bobcat, you just need to lift the loader up higher, mainly due to the Radius path loader, but it was just as good as Bobcat RPL's.:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures143.jpg

One of the many things I like about the CAt was here in the pic, the bucket tilt pins are in front of the loader, not inside like Bobcat's, much stronger and no Q/A flexing causing cracks, also there is a solid chunk of steel that the Q/A dead ends on to giving the bucket excellent cleanout in sticky stuff, you can really "bang" or "slam" out the muck:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures138.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures147.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures146.jpg

Got it loaded onto the trailer for the day's work:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures150.jpg

cat2
11-23-2007, 08:58 PM
Hey there are the pics I was waiting for.:) How many hours on that bobcat. Thats a nice new machine you have there. Don't you just love new stuff. Good luck with it and make alot of moneypayup

bobcat_ron
11-23-2007, 09:00 PM
Hey there are the pics I was waiting for.:) How many hours on that bobcat. Thats a nice new machine you have there. Don't you just love new stuff. Good luck with it and make alot of moneypayup

My T190 has 1753 hrs, a 2003 model, the 247 came with 2.1 hrs right from being PDI'ed at Finning.

Tigerotor77W
11-23-2007, 09:04 PM
Nice shots! Thanks for the quick turnaround. :)

What do you mean by the Cat's pins being on the inside?

cat2
11-23-2007, 09:04 PM
So why did you go with Cat? Why not another bobcat

cat2
11-23-2007, 09:06 PM
Nice shots! Thanks for the quick turnaround. :)

What do you mean by the Cat's pins being on the inside?

He said the bobcats pins are on the inside I think

bobcat_ron
11-23-2007, 09:06 PM
CAT's pins are in front of the loader arms, surrounded on both sides by the loader, this is so much stronger than the weaker Bobcat design and there's no need for a tapered pin and bushing bullsh*t anymore.

bobcat_ron
11-23-2007, 09:11 PM
The first jobsite I took the 247 to was the pre-load site, 32,000 tonnes of gravel to be more precise.
***This was the rock I was warned to stay the hell away from and I found out why:***

4 hrs of running over and through the rock, not paying too much attention to what was really happening, I occasionally buried the rollers in the 3" minus rock and kept on going, some minor cuts and scratches due to the rock getting caught between the outer lugs and rollers.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures157.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures158.jpg
This is a good one:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures165.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures163.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures164.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures160.jpg

That was only 4 hours, and I only buried it twice, this is the worst and hardest rock to ever see the tracks, based on this, out of 365 possible working days I may only spend 3 full days actually in this stuff and the rest of the time is sent in much finer gravel, in the end it all boiled down to the "nutt behind the butt", I did get careless and I realized what was happening, but I was not put off by it, I just had to adjust my operating styles.
After lunch I headed to another job to play in the dirt, this is where the tracks really came alive in the traction department. I spent 2 hours in the mud and composted manure slime, it was smelly, disgusting and slippery as snot, but that ASV track system never slowed down.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures168.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures172.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures170.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures171.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures169.jpg
Ready to go home and get washed:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures173.jpg

My overall impressions:

-Based on all the "crap" I've heard from the CAT haters, this 247 has just as much pushing power and torque as my T190 does, it's all in the speed and how you work the bucket and loader, getting used to a RPL was the hardest, 4 years of a VPL made me weak.

-Traction was insane, I could easily spin the tracks on compacted gravel if I had to while loading my bucket and going through the slime was even more fun, the softer rubber seems to grip better.

-The whole machine is better built than Bobcat, even O-rings have been placed on the main lower tilt pins, no one does that from what I've seen and it's about bloody time, sure the cab felt small width wise, but it has much more room in length than the Bobcat and it has a cup holder, SCORE!!!

-Cab noise was even lower then Bobcat, at WOT with all 4 windows (YES, 4 windows, rear side windows also slide!!!) hydraulic noises were practically non-existent.

-The tracks and undercarriage are self cleaning, on the Bobcat it was always getting packed into the tracks between the drive motors and the chassis, when you went full speed, you can feel the machine lugging due to the packing, the ASV design eliminates this and everything that can will fall back out leaving the drive motor high and dry.

-All major loader grease points are inside the pins, and all facing out, you can grease the entire loader without removing the bucket in 3 minutes, that's an impressive feat, it takes me 12 minutes to clean every fitting and remove the bucket on my T190 and reposition the loader, it's a pain.

I have not made the phone call to my CAT rep yet as I am still looking into the all steel roller option, but as I have stated before, I had to change my style, I can still run over this coarse rock, just not through it.

cat2
11-23-2007, 09:23 PM
Man O man nice clean new machine and you go run it threw manure.

bobcat_ron
11-23-2007, 09:25 PM
I wanted to see if the sh*t could hit the fan!!

cat2
11-23-2007, 09:35 PM
:laugh: Your a funny man. yea I work in that stuff about every day cleaned both barns out today. So what are you going to do with your bobcat? keep it. You could get rid of the bobcat and the cat and get a JD CTL 322 and you would be all set. One other thing. Do you no when you turn the key on in your bobcat it goes beeeeep and the fuel and the temp gauge moves. Well today on my bobcat it didn't go beeep everything worked ok. Then when the machine was off I pressed the lights for any codes and when you do that the fuel gauge and temp gauge moves, but the temp gauge didn't go nice and smooth it was like jumping. You ever have this problem

SiteSolutions
11-23-2007, 11:26 PM
I think the new K series must have a couple improvements not on your T-190. Taking off the bucket makes it easier to grease but i grease mine with the bucket on all the time, without having to reposition the loader arms. I haven't timed myself so I couldn't say if I could do it in 3 minutes? Then again the vertical path machines have more fittings...

I think the Bobcat weighs about a thousand pounds more than the Cat.

I sure know what you mean about the T-190 bogging down when the going gets wet and mud packs around the back of the tracks. The drive motors get hot, too, because the packed in mud insulates them. Dealer told me to not run it like that for long because it causes premature failures. Kinda makes you wonder what the point of having tracks is if you can't really get them muddy?:confused:

I think I would look at the 247 or 257 whenever I get ready to trade. The ROC is lower because the tipping load is lower, but the hp is comparable, width / size is comparable, and the breakout force is matched to the tipping load... the 190 won't tip till around 6,000 lbs I think, but it won't lift that much, not enough hydraulics, so who cares? I guess maybe it makes it more stable?

Good comparison, keep updating it.

bobcat_ron
11-24-2007, 09:14 AM
My T190 is getting traded off, no way in hell do I ever want to see another Bobcat again and with the trade in value of $23,500 CAN, that's a deal to sweet to pass off.

I don't want to bother doing a demo on a 257, even though the spec numbers are almost the same as the T190, I've read about the 257 being somewhat sluggish and not as nimble as the 247, look at the numbers and you can see why, the 257 is 6" longer, 1100 lbs heavier and the travel speed drops down from 7.7 mph to 6.9 on the 257.

The Deere is out of the question, mainly due to 4 major factors;
1) I can't see the tracks from inside the cab like you can with Bobcat/Cat.

2) I don't need a "bulldozer" of a skidsteer anymore, I just need a tracked skidsteer that will do the job and do it as good as I want it to, no extreme ROC's and supreme break out, just a regular machine, I find when I did the small jobs, it was done just too fast for my client's liking when I over did it on the show boating.

3)The Deere's overall width across the tracks is 69", too wide, I needed to stay in the 66" category to avoid buying $8000 worth of new buckets, 72" 4-in-1 combo, 72" grapple and a regular C/I 72" bucket. All I have are the same buckets, but in 68" of width, the rest of the attachments are no problems.

4) I still don't trust the tracks on the Deere, I know the idlers and rollers run on the outside of the track where the rubber is, but my T190's tracks are all rotted there from excessive travel and heat, and what worries me is that there will be a pile of Deere customers that complaining that their once smooth ride is now gone after only 500 hrs.

BrandonV
11-24-2007, 10:58 AM
very nice looking machine I have no doubt you'll love you cat vs your bobcat. I've put about 1200hrs on my 287b now and haven't has so much as a whimper of a problem with it. which is a far cry from my 865 bobcat did in its first 1000hrs

ksss
11-24-2007, 11:51 AM
Interesting comparison. Hopefully the CAT will work for you. The rock issues would concern me but as long as you are careful in how you use it, you should be fine.

Tigerotor77W
11-24-2007, 12:27 PM
I like the comparison as well... and I'm actually quite happy that the 247B2 is working out for you.

And I understand your pin comparison, too, I think -- I just wanted to make sure I was interpreting it correctly.

Keep up the updates... would like to hear how she holds up.

bobcat_ron
11-24-2007, 01:37 PM
I washed it this morning, it took me just about 3 minutes per side with an average garden hose with a 3/16" nozzle on it, 6 minutes in total to do both tracks, pretty impressive. My T190 took 10 minutes per side, using a pry bar to clean out under the sprockets and underneath the top of the track and getting under the machine to do the drive motors.

Greasing was also done, 4 pumps of grease into each fitting took only 2 minutes and I even got the Q/A pins as well.

I also found one issue related to an attachment, the dumping hopper, with the Bobcat, you can fully open the front door and have it swing out over the top of the hopper and still have an inch or two of clearance, but the CAT has a more forward angle to the front of the cab and the door is taller, so I need to bring the hopper to my local welder and have them notch out a little section on top for door clearance. It's not a huge deal, but I want to make sure I can get out of the cab safely and quickly in the event of an emergency, like say, my Local Bobcat sale rep would happen to spot me, I'll need to run post haste.

As far as the dimensions of the cab, CAT measures 2 inches narrower than Bobcat and length from front to rear window is 8 inches longer than Bobcat, height would be irrelevant as the suspension seat in the CAT has more travel, but the overall machine height is 2 inches taller than Bobcat as demonstrated in the first set of pics.

I'll get some more pics of how much easier this engine is too service later on today, CAT really made some better improvements over the first generation of SSL, and I wish Bobcat would do the same.

SiteSolutions
11-24-2007, 03:03 PM
I spend 30 minutes plus with a pressure washer on my tracks after going in the mud. Prybar sometimes necessary to speed things along or get chunks of wood / other debris out of there.

bobcat_ron
11-24-2007, 06:55 PM
So as promised here are some more pics of the better features of this sweet CAT 247.

First, CAT uses a single aluminum single stack radiator, engine coolant on top and hydraulic cooler on the bottom, they both occupy 70/30 respectively.
Biggest problem with Bobcat is they have (or at least I have) 3 radiators, top one is for the A/C, second is the oil cooler and the last one is the engine coolant, if foreign debris gets sucked into the radiators, and the engine runs hot, you lift off the debris guard and you won't even realize that both the second and third rads are plugged.

CAT eliminated this problem, 2 radiators in one huge radiator:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures178.jpg

Second, the entire radiator and fan enclosure can be tilted up to gain access to the top of the engine by releasing a spring loaded lock (like a door lock) and the entire assembly hinges up supported by a pressurized gas strut:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures179.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures180.jpg
Here's the hydraulic fan, not variable like the New K series from Bobcat, but still temperature controlled:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures183.jpg

This is where the A/C condenser sits, behind the engine, in front of the firewall, with 2 electric high flow fans on the opposite side, this is very similar to the A/C mounting and remote setup that the CAT and Deere dozers now use which sits on the back upper part of the cab:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures181.jpg

The sight glass for the hydraulic oil is above the fuel tank cap on the right side behind the cab:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures142.jpg

The last item, all filters, fuel, hydraulic, engine oil and air filters are located on the left side, and the dipstick is pointing right you. (the yellow thingy)
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures182.jpg

Got more pics coming, but I had to do 2 hours of dumping hopper work, man what a difference, more traction and ride comfort, suck on that Bobcat! :cool2:

BrandonV
11-24-2007, 06:59 PM
"I'll get some more pics of how much easier this engine is too service later on today, CAT really made some better improvements over the first generation of SSL, and I wish Bobcat would do the same."

no joke on that, when we brought our 287b home my mechanic was amazed that "you can get to the battery" and "look at the fuel filter" WOW!!!

bobcat_ron
11-24-2007, 07:01 PM
Just wait untill I pop the cab up, I'll bet my eye balls pop out!!

cat2
11-24-2007, 07:15 PM
I think I need to do this between the bobcat and the john deere. Jd always says how their skid steers are so much easier to service

Fieldman12
11-24-2007, 07:16 PM
I like everything about the Cat's except the undercarriage. We will see if the C series has the undercarriage figured out. That is a very nice machine Ron. I hope it works well for you. Sorry to hear of the issues with the Bobcat. Bobcat better start listening to it's customers. Cat, Deere, and Case are going to rob the shorts of Bobcat if they don't watch out.

Fieldman12
11-24-2007, 09:50 PM
Here is some Cat video material for ya Ron. :) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=372426509765513241

cat2
11-24-2007, 10:04 PM
Here is some Cat video material for ya Ron. :) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=372426509765513241

I've seen this video. Its pretty good material:)

Fieldman12
11-24-2007, 10:17 PM
Yes, it is good. I would like to see one from each brand and compare them.

bobcat_ron
11-24-2007, 10:32 PM
Sweet vid link, thanks!

You can really see the difference in the roller wheels assembly from that vid and how CAT has "inspired" ASV to make changes to simplify maintenance.

bobcat_ron
11-25-2007, 10:57 AM
So before doing the dumping hopper job, I wanted to make sure everything worked good, but ran into the problem with the door:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures184.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures185.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures186.jpg

The Bobcat doors are shorter and clear the top of the hopper by an inch,
so no problem, I'll just get that part of the hopper notched out sometime this week and it'll be alright.

AWJ Services
11-25-2007, 11:12 AM
This is not a stab at anyone manufacturer but it seems like OSHA or somone would put there foot down about the way skid steer doors open.
There was a machine that fell backwards in a pool with the bucket up and the rear and front exit were blocked.
It is one of the few peices of equipment that legally is allowed too trap you inside it?
Everytime I see pictures of the doors hitting attachments I think about this.

bobcat_ron
11-25-2007, 11:14 AM
Hence wanting to get this hopper modded to get the door open fully, I can still squeeze through, but in an emergency I like to have a quick means of getting out safely and efficiently.

BrandonV
11-25-2007, 12:23 PM
i agree with the door problems, deere's door i think alleviates that the best but I think you loose a lot of visibility with it as well.

Tigerotor77W
11-25-2007, 12:33 PM
How're you finding the transition from Bobcat controls to Cat controls?

I take it the 247B has no problem with the hopper (pushing it around etc)?

How does the "power" seem to compare with the two machines -- do the tracks stop spinning on the 247B2 when the T190 would have stalled out, or does the 247B2 just keep spinning the tracks (albeit slowly)?

bobcat_ron
11-25-2007, 01:07 PM
How're you finding the transition from Bobcat controls to Cat controls?

I take it the 247B has no problem with the hopper (pushing it around etc)?

How does the "power" seem to compare with the two machines -- do the tracks stop spinning on the 247B2 when the T190 would have stalled out, or does the 247B2 just keep spinning the tracks (albeit slowly)?


I made the transition from Bobcat to pilot controls (CAT style) very quickly, the D4 I run for the business is a Hystat with a single joystick for the steering with the exception that there is a button to push to step the speeds up and down, but the transition was a no-brainer. Even after a full day on it, my legs don't feel sore and cramped and my hands and arms don't tingle and loose circulation from having to wrap my fat hands around those blasted rowing oars we call drive handles.

As for the power, it's the same, you really need to think ahead how to attack a pile of soil with the radius path loader, but once you get used to it, you learn very quickly. I find that the Bobcat does have more pushing torque, not power, as the engine will keep lugging down to stall point whereas the CAT engine will lug as well, but if you keep it lugging the anti-stall (de-stroking of the pumps) will kick in. It's best to lift the loader and roll the bucket down as you feel the engine lug slightly that way you won't be dragging the bottom of the bucket on the surface which causes more friction, if that was done in the videos that Deere produced with the pushing competition, CAT and ASV would have done better.
When I was in the snotty stuff and got into heavy pushing when it hooked up, the tracks would stop dead, but only if the engine lugged too long and the traction was sudden, other than that, the tracks will spin, I found as I pushed the loaded hopper through the field while trying to make a turn, one track was constantly spinning more, but it was all in the momentum.

But the biggest differences in pushing the hopper around was in the ride fully loaded over the drive way, smooth in both directions, loaded and empty, you can hardly tell if it was even loaded, all I can feel is a slight vibration coming from the tread lugs on the track, that was very minimal, nothing on the machine vibrates, nothing!
If I was using a rigid frame or even my T190, any speed over 1 mp/h would be very uncomfortable, the cab would be shaking and everything rattles, this CAT MTL is a smooth rider with better traction.
The foot throttle really pays off too, I had to constantly move with the excavator that was loading me, and I could just rev the engine slightly to move and drop the loader back down, the T190 I had to set the throttle all the time and put my hand back on the hand lever, that took more time.

I'm just hoping that the fuel economy get better, a 17 gallon tank sure doesn't last as long on that 57 hp powered Perkins, but it should loosen up over the next 100 hrs.

bobcat_ron
11-25-2007, 02:21 PM
Here's some more pics of the hydraulic quick attach, I will be doing some modding on, mainly using slices of mud flap to protect the cylinders from mud and rocks:

Above view:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures188.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures190.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures189.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures191.jpg
I plan on cutting a 18 x 8 inch piece of rubber mud flap and using carriage bolts to secure it to the brackets holding the cylinders in place and keeping the edge tight to the attachment, this way whatever falls off the top of the bucket will not get trapped behind the bucket and damage the cylinders, funny why the cylinders are not underneath the brackets?

Interior cab shots:
I'm guessing this is possible storage inside the door?!?!
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures194.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures193.jpg

Upper right side, fuel gauge and over ride for the pilot controls for remote operation of brush chipper:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures195.jpg

Dome light:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures205.jpg

Upper left side, ignition key, 2 buttons beside key are parking brake release and cold weather starting/glow plugs on top; the other 3 are, from front to back of cab, hydraulic Q/A button, bucket leveling and aux. hyd. pressure release:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures196.jpg

Ventilation controls on your left:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures202.jpg

And on the right is the cup holder and the loader arm release valve, to lower the loader in the event of engine failure:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures204.jpg

The arm rest bar is actually molded to fit your arms very nicely, my arms just seemed to feel better here than on the Bobcat all day:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures201.jpg

Back of the cab, rear windows also slide and notice how clean everything is, all wires are in a loom for easy access:
Left side:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures200.jpg
Right side:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures197.jpg

Right hand joy stick, top button is the beep-beep horn and the lower button is pushed after the aux. hyd flow is started for continuous flow:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures199.jpg

The floor, even a rubber floor mat, and the foot throttle, still lots of room for your feet and just in front of your knees is a lockable kind of a glove compartment, that's making the best of usable space:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures208.jpg

The hour meter, 12.2 hrs, where did the time fly?
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures207.jpg

Outside, a better view of the A/C condenser and twin fans:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures209.jpg
Horn is visible:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures210.jpg
Filler for the hydraulic oil:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures211.jpg

Track thickness from bottom of track to underside, not measuring traction lugs:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures215.jpg
Bobcat's track (for comparisons)
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures216.jpg
Roller wheels:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures214.jpg

Gravel Rat
11-25-2007, 07:29 PM
I think you will like the Cat I know one contractor in the area that has one I'am pretty sure he has a 247. Bought it brandnew the machine works on a regular basis because it can go where rubber tired skid steers can't.

Scag48
11-25-2007, 11:13 PM
The front door storage is handy, I used to throw my cell phone there so I could see it ring. The phone lights up crazy when it rings, I'd never hear it, so it's handy to have right in front of you.

SiteSolutions
11-26-2007, 07:32 AM
Here's what I am intrigued about: you say it doesn't rattle?
That is the biggest, noisiest pain in the arse about the T-190; the side windows rattle like they are about to shatter and fall out. I can wedge my forearms up against them to quiet them down but that's pretty uncomfortable. You saying the 247 doesn't do that?

dozerman21
11-26-2007, 09:56 AM
Here's what I am intrigued about: you say it doesn't rattle?
That is the biggest, noisiest pain in the arse about the T-190; the side windows rattle like they are about to shatter and fall out. I can wedge my forearms up against them to quiet them down but that's pretty uncomfortable. You saying the 247 doesn't do that?

SS- Put some small wood shims in your windows. I know it's not a permanent fix, but it helps reduce the vibration quite a bit. I had them on my T-300 and it made for a better workplace... along with my earplugs and the stereo on high.:laugh:

qps
11-26-2007, 09:58 AM
SS- Put some small wood shims in your windows. I know it's not a permanent fix, but it helps reduce the vibration quite a bit. I had them on my T-300 and it made for a better workplace... along with my earplugs and the stereo on high.:laugh:

Get a CAT and it won't rattle....get to work!!!:hammerhead:

bobcat_ron
11-26-2007, 11:04 AM
Here's what I am intrigued about: you say it doesn't rattle?
That is the biggest, noisiest pain in the arse about the T-190; the side windows rattle like they are about to shatter and fall out. I can wedge my forearms up against them to quiet them down but that's pretty uncomfortable. You saying the 247 doesn't do that?

Nope, no rattling, no shaking, no feelings in your gut like you are going to have explosive diarrhea, nothing. The only sensation you get is the ever so slight vibrations of the traction lugs, but it's only noticeable on hard surfaces like concrete and pavement driveways, and even that takes alot of weight on the front to get it to that point.

SiteSolutions
11-26-2007, 11:53 AM
Sounds dreamy. Toting rolled sod up a driveway was probably the worst vibration from the tracks I got in mine.

I've thought about shimming the windows but I don't want to wedge open a gap to let in (more) dust. I have thought about weatherstripping or just caulking the things shut; the handles are so flimsy that I try to never open the windows anyway.

Yellow dog, have you done anything to your side windows?

bobcat_ron
11-26-2007, 02:40 PM
The deal is getting finalized today, contract is getting re-written.
I have added a 3rd line from the aux. group that will drain into the manifold from the reservoir to take the pressure spikes from the jack hammer as well as it acts as a case drain for mowers and sweepers, and a new Panasonic radio with AM/FM, CD and Satellite Radio jack is being installed.
I got the royal tour at the dealership's Compact equipment yard, man that place is big, almost 1/2 acre shop alone, packed with new equipment from a new 308CR excavator to little mini excavators and all different sizes of skids and MTL, some with over 2000 hrs on them, scratched and beaten up but the undercarriages still look good. Outside were at least 12 new C-series SSL and MTL's, looked at the new 297 and just drooled at the sight of those bogies and rollers.
Their facilities are separate from the main office in Langley, that way my machine isn't being worked on by someone who just came off doing repairs on a D11 or something, all these men and women are dedicated solely to anything that weighs under 9 tons.

Tigerotor77W
11-26-2007, 06:51 PM
I gotta admit... cat2's having a Bobcat but liking Deere and bobcat_ron having a Cat is getting me confused.

:)

bobcat_ron
11-26-2007, 08:14 PM
No fooling........now I have to use a sharpie pen and edit all 1000 of my business cards now, can't wait for the fumes to get me high.

bobcat_ron
11-30-2007, 01:02 PM
Now it's official, CAT even has my hunk-o-junk on the CatUsed now:
http://catused.cat.com/en/Equipment/BOBCAT-INGERSOLL-RAND/SKID-STEER-LOADERS/t190/816142/For-Sale.aspx

Someone put an offer on it please!!!

YellowDogSVC
11-30-2007, 02:58 PM
My T190 is getting traded off, no way in hell do I ever want to see another Bobcat again .

guess you have to change your name? :laugh:

YellowDogSVC
11-30-2007, 03:06 PM
Sounds dreamy. Toting rolled sod up a driveway was probably the worst vibration from the tracks I got in mine.

I've thought about shimming the windows but I don't want to wedge open a gap to let in (more) dust. I have thought about weatherstripping or just caulking the things shut; the handles are so flimsy that I try to never open the windows anyway.

Yellow dog, have you done anything to your side windows?

I haven't done much on my new k series s300. Was being lazy but I have to do something now. too much dust packed in at 273 hrs. Mine don't rattle that I notice. In fact, the machine barely rattles. Wonder if that's tire thing vs. tracked machine. Noise isn't too bad but the side windows could be thicker even smaller. I don't think they need to be that big except for people who do precision work which would negate the use of a big loader in a lot of situations, right?

bobcat_ron
11-30-2007, 03:25 PM
guess you have to change your name? :laugh:


Yup, as well as countless other screen names and my email address, business name, etc, etc. :cry:

cat2
11-30-2007, 06:31 PM
Yup, as well as countless other screen names and my email address, business name, etc, etc. :cry:

So what is going to be your new user name on this site? Cat_ron:confused:

bobcat_ron
11-30-2007, 08:12 PM
Userfomallyknownasbobcat_ron

turboawd
11-30-2007, 10:12 PM
how much they give you for trade-in?

bobcat_ron
12-01-2007, 10:55 AM
$23,500 CAN, and they did the final pay out of $8200.

wakesetter2001
12-01-2007, 04:55 PM
Bobcat Ron, I just pickup a new 2007 247B, not the B2 but still a very nice machine, I am looking at installing a radio and was wondering were they are mounting yours and if there is a factory place in there somewhere that I am not aware of. I have been talking with a local stereo shop but cant find a really good spot for the deck and speakers. Do you have any pictures or info on this. And your post with all the comparison has been a great threat to read, it just reinforces why I went with CAT.

YellowDogSVC
12-01-2007, 05:19 PM
what's the difference in the b series 2 versus the b series?

bobcat_ron
12-01-2007, 05:26 PM
Bobcat Ron, I just pickup a new 2007 247B, not the B2 but still a very nice machine, I am looking at installing a radio and was wondering were they are mounting yours and if there is a factory place in there somewhere that I am not aware of. I have been talking with a local stereo shop but cant find a really good spot for the deck and speakers. Do you have any pictures or info on this. And your post with all the comparison has been a great threat to read, it just reinforces why I went with CAT.


I will get some pics of it when I get it back, Ralph's Radio is doing the install and they are gods among mortals when it comes to radios in heavy equipment. They are putting in a Panasonic AM/FM/CD/Satellite system that all the Cats up here use.

I would imagine that it will be located on the right upper side of the cab against the head liner.

As soon as I get it back I'll post the pics.

bobcat_ron
12-01-2007, 05:28 PM
what's the difference in the b series 2 versus the b series?


They made minor cosmetic changes to the cab (Pilot controls, ventilation and paint scheme) and improvements to the hydraulics as well as the much needed changes to the ASV undercarriages.

Scag48
12-01-2007, 06:44 PM
Bobcat Ron, I just pickup a new 2007 247B, not the B2 but still a very nice machine, I am looking at installing a radio and was wondering were they are mounting yours and if there is a factory place in there somewhere that I am not aware of. I have been talking with a local stereo shop but cant find a really good spot for the deck and speakers. Do you have any pictures or info on this. And your post with all the comparison has been a great threat to read, it just reinforces why I went with CAT.

Nice avatar, BR350? Where do you run snowcat in Oregon? I applied for a job running cat on a grave shift at a somewhat local hill. There's just something awesome about being in a machine like that, I've been out many times with friends and it's a BLAST. Sorry to threadjack, just had to say something. hahaha

wakesetter2001
12-01-2007, 09:11 PM
I run snow cat all around Mt. Bachelor in Central Oregon, I actually run a BR 275 most of the time but next year we are getting a new BR 350, I groom snowmobile trails for a local snowmobile club. We have an older BR 275 and a 2005 BR 275, next year the older cat is being replaced with the new BR 350. If you go on plowsite.com and put Snow Cats in the search there is a thread with a bunch of different pictures and some of them are of me out grooming the trails.

bobcat_ron
12-05-2007, 05:02 PM
December 7 is the big day, I'll bring my old junker to Finning, sign papers and bring back the new "tax write off".

bobcat_ron
12-08-2007, 07:05 PM
***12-07-2007***

Took delivery of the 247, here's my sales rep JG backing in:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures269.jpg

The radio and speakers:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures263.jpg

The radio antenna:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures265.jpg

The third line for case drain and return from hammer, it's really tight with little clearance between that cab and loader arms, so I'll pull it out and re-route it on the outside of the loader and make a bracket to mount it lower:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures268.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures267.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures266.jpg

I also took the time to modify the quick attach cylinder brackets with a chunk of rubber floor mat, now nothing can fall between the Q/A and the bucket and damage the cylinders and it'll reduce the packing of mud.
BEFORE:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures188.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures191.jpg
AFTER:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures261.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures259.jpg


And now the most beautiful picture I think I have ever taken in this business, the sight of my old hunk-o-junk getting hauled away, good riddance you foul beast, you unsightly scab, you rhetorical nightmare: http://www.p1x44r.com/smiles/finger.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures270.jpg

GOOD BYE!! http://www.p1x44r.com/smiles/finger.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures271.jpg

bobcat_ron
12-08-2007, 07:11 PM
Action shots inside of a new dairy barn holding area, my illustrious brother, Tom, aka Mr. Triple B, Mr. Ambition, just some of his names, decided to take it out for a spin, he really sucks.


http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures274.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures275.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures276.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures279.jpg

ROOKIE!! http://www.p1x44r.com/smiles/finger.gifhttp://www.p1x44r.com/smiles/finger.gif

ksss
12-08-2007, 09:14 PM
Hopefully you will be happier with the CAT than you were with the BC apparently. It seems to either be a love or hate relationship with the CAT machines.

Construct'O
12-08-2007, 09:25 PM
Who's the guy standing around with his hands in his pockets????? While the boss is working:confused:

bobcat_ron
12-08-2007, 10:12 PM
Who's the guy standing around with his hands in his pockets????? While the boss is working:confused:

One of the many people who came to see my new "tax write-off".

bobcat_ron
12-11-2007, 06:47 PM
http://catused.cat.com/en/Equipment/BOBCAT-INGERSOLL-RAND/SKID-STEER-LOADERS/t190/816142/For-Sale.aspx

Now it's official!

bobcat_ron
01-01-2008, 08:12 PM
http://catused.cat.com/en/Equipment/BOBCAT-INGERSOLL-RAND/SKID-STEER-LOADERS/t190/816142/For-Sale.aspx

Now it's official!

Bump.

C'mon fellow British Colmbians, make Finning an offer!

mrsops
01-03-2008, 06:56 PM
i would rather run a t190 or t300 anyday

bobcat_ron
01-03-2008, 08:22 PM
Yup, I used to say that too, but then I made one too many trips over hard ground with a loaded bucket or the big dumping hopper, and Cat sure looked nice all of a sudden.

And not to mention everytime I raised my loader, the welded portions of the lower lift arms kept bringing back bad repair memories. "I thought it was just the paint that was peeling off the loader arms..........."

DUSTYCEDAR
01-03-2008, 09:25 PM
nice thread keep us updated with the new cat

qps
01-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Hopefully you will be happier with the CAT than you were with the BC apparently. It seems to either be a love or hate relationship with the CAT machines.

That's with any machine...I love ( I think that's the wrong word) my 297C, I really hated the 257B, I wouldn't consider myself brand loyal, but the service is great and the price was a good and better than any other brand quoted....In all fairness I didn't quote a CASE machine, due to lack of dealer trust and the fact that they've had about four salesmen in 3 years...the newest one I doubt that his ass has every seen a seat on a machine....just a few thoughts...I'm feeling kind of anal this evening...its like 4 degrees outside.....
;)

Tigerotor77W
01-03-2008, 09:33 PM
its like 4 degrees outside.....

Yeah, I hear you on that one. (I'm in a suburb of Chicago and we're faring about the same.)

But I thrive on cold weather. ;)

qps
01-03-2008, 09:56 PM
Yeah, I hear you on that one. (I'm in a suburb of Chicago and we're faring about the same.)

But I thrive on cold weather. ;)


I think I've stayed in Glenville before, trip to Chicago we stayed outside the city and took the L to the city everyday...the air and water show was in town that weekend, got to see the thunderbirds flying in formation at low altitude while on the navy peir, next day on the observatuin deck of the sears tower a stealth fighter jet was flying low around the city....very cool...

ksss
01-03-2008, 11:10 PM
Sears Tower, Stealth fighter (I am surprised that is on the air show curcuit), Thunderbirds, come to Rigby and I show you how TV came to be. Absolutely awesome...;)

qps
01-03-2008, 11:23 PM
Sears Tower, Stealth fighter (I am surprised that is on the air show curcuit), Thunderbirds, come to Rigby and I show you how TV came to be. Absolutely awesome...;)

I'm so there:cool2:...this was several years ago...I was surprised to see it flying so close to the tower....everybody ran like hell to the one side to see flying by....I thought I felt the tower move alittle:waving:

YellowDogSVC
01-04-2008, 11:32 AM
They made minor cosmetic changes to the cab (Pilot controls, ventilation and paint scheme) and improvements to the hydraulics as well as the much needed changes to the ASV undercarriages.

what kind of controls were in the regular b series? I remember using them and didn't like them.

bobcat_ron
01-04-2008, 11:56 AM
Same pilots, but the way the valving was set up, and you couldn't 360 counter rotate with out first moving forward/reverse.

Tigerotor77W
01-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Same pilots, but the way the valving was set up, and you couldn't 360 counter rotate with out first moving forward/reverse.

You sure about that? I thought you could... (maybe I'm wrong)

bobcat_ron
01-04-2008, 03:55 PM
Nope, when I blew off a track on the T190 in late '05, I used my customer's brand new 242B and I first hated how much smaller the cab was (only 2" less width, big whoopie) and I had to do a 180 turn, that was the first thing I did, and I couldn't do it unless I moved the joystick ahead a bit. When I was at the Bobcat dealer a week after, I mentioned the Cat I ran to finish off the job I was doing, and they mentioned if I had noticed that because Bobcat's new system had no issues with that.

qps
01-04-2008, 03:55 PM
You sure about that? I thought you could... (maybe I'm wrong)

I gotta agree with BR on this one, I don't think you was suppose to have to "rock" the machine to turn..but mine would not turn sometimes at all...this is why I dumped it for the 297...it turns great...as I hear the new B2 series also do.

YellowDogSVC
01-04-2008, 04:23 PM
does the c series have a different pilot setup?

Tigerotor77W
01-04-2008, 04:33 PM
Interesting... I must have been a good operator and always did a three-point turn (which by definition requires moving forward or backward in addition to turning). hahaha... (I'm being sarcastic -- I really must've missed the boat on this one!)

YellowDog -- C-series are EH controls (like Bobcat's, but honestly better).

BrandonV
01-04-2008, 07:00 PM
it electric over hydraulic

ksss
01-05-2008, 01:03 AM
i would rather run a t190 or t300 anyday

You would really rather run a T190? I mean really? No kidding? Would you feel like that if it was not a Bobcat? Do you run it or does your help. I would rather be jabbed in the eye with a sharp stick. I will take you word on the T300 as I have never run one. I have run the T250 which I did not have issue with. I spent a good amount of time on different T190's one brand new and it was everything but a favorable experience. Much like qps and the Gehl. I could not get out of it fast enough, unfortunately I had to get the work done.

Scag48
01-05-2008, 04:41 AM
I can't handle Bobcat's control systems. Either you have hand/foot controls that wear you out or you have their crappy rendition of hand controls. Add loud hydraulic/engine noise and they've produced a machine that most owner/operators just won't run, unless they've never been in anything else. I ran an S300 and hated it. Granted that's not a T300, but I can't imagine that the unsuspended carriage feels all that good, must be like riding a plank of wood across a gravel lot half the time. I think I'll pass. Bobcat's approach these days is to add enough "Gee whiz!" crap in the cab, throw a nice seat in there, and say "yeah, we've been building these for 50 years, don't question this machine". I don't buy that garbage. I'm hoping Doosan does something for the better, I have little respect for Bobcat anymore.

I understand some guys will run Bobcat until the day they die, go right ahead. But, I believe there are better performing machines on the market these days.

qps
01-05-2008, 01:20 PM
I can't handle Bobcat's control systems. Either you have hand/foot controls that wear you out or you have their crappy rendition of hand controls. Add loud hydraulic/engine noise and they've produced a machine that most owner/operators just won't run, unless they've never been in anything else. I ran an S300 and hated it. Granted that's not a T300, but I can't imagine that the unsuspended carriage feels all that good, must be like riding a plank of wood across a gravel lot half the time. I think I'll pass. Bobcat's approach these days is to add enough "Gee whiz!" crap in the cab, throw a nice seat in there, and say "yeah, we've been building these for 50 years, don't question this machine". I don't buy that garbage. I'm hoping Doosan does something for the better, I have little respect for Bobcat anymore.

I understand some guys will run Bobcat until the day they die, go right ahead. But, I believe there are better performing machines on the market these days.

I agree, I ran one before I bought my CAT...thing had more buttons in it than the cockpit of a 747, it whined somthing terrible....salesmen was honest enough to say the new ones weren't much better...if any....just few more HP.

Scag48
01-05-2008, 02:31 PM
And you know, I'm not going to bash a guy for running a Bobcat if that's what he likes. Buy what you want, run what you want. But, for someone to say Bobcat is the best machine available is simply naive.

mrsops
01-05-2008, 03:17 PM
in my honest opinion bobcats have the best visibility when grading. and i have been in every machine

Scag48
01-05-2008, 03:37 PM
Dude, you're kidding me right? In my opinion and many others, Bobcat has the absolute worst visility, at least for their vertical lift machines. I could never see the cutting edge of the bucket in a Bobcat regardless of model. And the vertical lift machines have the most god awful side visibility ever, Cat isn't far behind them with the 242/252 or whatever they are now in the C-series.

mrsops
01-05-2008, 03:46 PM
are you kidding me? i never have any type of problem with visibility in my machines i sat in a john deere this year and i couldnt even see the corners of the buckets how can you grade like that same thing with the cat little better then the deere but not by far. bobcat i can see the corners of the bucket perfect. how cant you see the cutting edge in a bobcat? what are you 2' tall?

kreft
01-05-2008, 04:05 PM
their has been alot of arguments on lawnsite latly. Whats up with that?

SiteSolutions
01-05-2008, 04:08 PM
Cause there ain't enough to do

kreft
01-05-2008, 04:08 PM
and for the record I was at one of my dads jobs, and i got to run a cat 297C, and the visibility of the machine, was by far the best I have seen yet, you could see all around.

kreft
01-05-2008, 04:09 PM
Cause there ain't enough to do

O, that explains it!

Fieldman12
01-05-2008, 04:10 PM
It must have not been a low profile bucket on the Deere then. I have a Deere with a low profile bucket and I can see things around the bucket so well I can go up and touch things on purpose and not cause any damage. I have set in a few Bobcat's and did not think the visibility was that great. I give you Deere booms can be hard to see around looking directly out to the side but as for the bucket that has never been an issue.

ksss
01-05-2008, 04:22 PM
To me side and rear visibility are very important. Seeing the cutting edge depends on several things that may not have a lot to do with the design of the machine. The bucket size and design have a lot to do with what you see in the front of bucket. I run a 73" bucket low profile extended lip bucket and the visibility is excellent. If I went to 80" bucket that might change. What I dislike about the Deere is when the arms are up in transport mode it is difficult to see around the arms. The Deere visibility is good with the arms down but how often do move around like that. Not that often especially if your running a rock rake. The Bobcats have a high cowling in the back which makes it hard to see out of for me and I am 6' tall. There is certainly a difference between vertical lift and radial lift machines. My 465 is not as easy to see out of as my 440. The arms are massive and that steel is hard to see around. When the job calls for tight places and fine grading the radial machine is always the first choice. Visibility is more subjective than it might seem. It depends on what kind of work you do and the attachments you run as well as the size of the operator. What is acceptable to one guy may not be for another.

Scag48
01-05-2008, 04:58 PM
I'm 5'7" and have never been able to sit in a Bobcat machine and see the cutting edge clearly and when in vertical lift machines the side visibility leaves a lot to be desired, but so do most vertical lift machines, that's not completely Bobcat biased. Back in the day, Bobcat's ingenious idea of putting one tilt cylinder right in the middle of the loader arms was a great one. The middle of the arms was much taller than that compared to machines with dual cylinders placed on each side. I realize that this is no longer an issue as Bobcat has gone to dual cylinders like everyone else, eliminating the buldge. I was in an S300 and it felt like the cutting edge was so far, horizontally, from the operator combined with the height of the machine produced a somewhat unfavorable view. Like I said, I'm not terribly tall, but 5'7" definately isn't munchkin standards.

KSSS and Fieldman are correct, the Deere system is great for out the side if the arms are down, likelihood of that are slim, but hey, it's a shot. And yes, Deere has the best cutting edge visibility over everyone, at least with a standard bucket. If I threw a low profile bucket on our Cat, I could probably see a bit more and get up to par with a Deere running a standard bucket.

Fieldman12
01-05-2008, 05:32 PM
Ksss and Scag48, is correct about what type of bucket you have which is what I was trying to get too. If you have a standard bucket with a high back and the bottom is shallow than chances are your not going to see hardly any of the edge.

bobcat_ron
01-05-2008, 07:22 PM
I just came home from running a beat up 763 Bobcat with 2738 hrs, the same sight lines as my Cat 247 (also same ROC), tippy as a drunk, decent pushing power on concrete and those god d@#m mother&$*@(*% drive handles and loader pedals made me feel old and beat to hell.

God I love my Cat and pilot controls.

Long live Cat.

YellowDogSVC
01-05-2008, 07:39 PM
Dude, you're kidding me right? In my opinion and many others, Bobcat has the absolute worst visility, at least for their vertical lift machines. I could never see the cutting edge of the bucket in a Bobcat regardless of model. And the vertical lift machines have the most god awful side visibility ever, Cat isn't far behind them with the 242/252 or whatever they are now in the C-series.

I have to agree that the visiblity in s300's, s250's, s220's and 863 sucked. CSS visibility- (Can't See Sh*t)
I just sold my second s300 in 2007 but still run one. I am so P*ssed at Bobcat right now because my dust issue came back but that's another story. Only grinded for 10.5 hours this week and when I started the machine today the cab filled with dust something awful. Had to call my wife over to see it. After all the time I spent caulking, sealing, putting in weatherseal and blowing out my cab after my job, the dust kicked up just started the machine and AC system. Visibility in the cab was near zero..okay, that's an exaggeration but you get my point.
I can honestly say that I have only a few minor problems mechanically with the Bobcat K series or the G series for that matter in the bigger machines. I get the best service and that is the only reason I stay with Bobcat right now. So if Bobcat is reading this they can pat their local service dept. on the back. The dealer is fantastic with most things so I feel I have some loyalty but I am tired of coughing and not being able to see because the inside and outside of my windows are covered in dust. I carry a "california" type duster in the cab to wipe the windows down and blow out the cab frequently. That and the hp issue I have with the s300's is why I am going to take a hard look at CAT. It's a choice that keeps me up at night as an owner operator. I think my opinions are valid as I have almost 3000 hours in s300's with cab and AC.

YellowDogSVC
01-05-2008, 07:40 PM
I just came home from running a beat up 763 Bobcat with 2738 hrs, the same sight lines as my Cat 247 (also same ROC), tippy as a drunk, decent pushing power on concrete and those god d@#m mother&$*@(*% drive handles and loader pedals made me feel old and beat to hell.

God I love my Cat and pilot controls.

Long live Cat.

try doing it everyday in an s300 with the #120 chains! You should see my calves and forearms. :weightlifter:

ksss
01-05-2008, 07:54 PM
try doing it everyday in an s300 with the #120 chains! You should see my calves and forearms. :weightlifter:

I assumed you had the Bobcat E/H control system. I really feel for you.

AWJ Services
01-05-2008, 08:02 PM
I just came home from running a beat up 763 Bobcat with 2738 hrs, the same sight lines as my Cat 247 (also same ROC), tippy as a drunk, decent pushing power on concrete and those god d@#m mother&$*@(*% drive handles and loader pedals made me feel old and beat to hell.

God I love my Cat and pilot controls.

When I purchased my machine Cat,Takeuchi and Komatsu were the only CTL with Pilots.
I would never own a machine with anything else.

YellowDogSVC
01-05-2008, 08:23 PM
I assumed you had the Bobcat E/H control system. I really feel for you.

It was fine when I was in my 20's and early 30's but I am miserable lately especially when brush mowing which requires a lot of finesse from my feet and moving the sticks around. I am sooooo SORE every stinkin' day!

Tigerotor77W
01-05-2008, 10:28 PM
It was fine when I was in my 20's and early 30's but I am miserable lately especially when brush mowing which requires a lot of finesse from my feet and moving the sticks around. I am sooooo SORE every stinkin' day!

The Cat salesman in me is whispering for you to try a Cat 272C XPS...

okay well it's really shouting, but I know that factors other than my loud mouth are at play when deciding to spend some serious money.

ksss
01-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I would for sure be looking for a better control system next time around, even if you end up back in a Bobcat I would at least go with E/H. I on occasion run those foot/hand controlled machines and I hate them with a passion. Demo a pilot controlled machine (hell anyones pilot machine) and you will wonder why you have been killing yourself with those hand/foot controls. Especially since BC does not believe in servos/why I don't know.

YellowDogSVC
01-05-2008, 10:51 PM
I would for sure be looking for a better control system next time around, even if you end up back in a Bobcat I would at least go with E/H. I on occasion run those foot/hand controlled machines and I hate them with a passion. Demo a pilot controlled machine (hell anyones pilot machine) and you will wonder why you have been killing yourself with those hand/foot controls. Especially since BC does not believe in servos/why I don't know.

I think my old 863 c series had servos. It was easier to operate. I wasn't kiddin about my calves and forearms. I feel like popeye sometimes!

YellowDogSVC
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
The Cat salesman in me is whispering for you to try a Cat 272C XPS...

okay well it's really shouting, but I know that factors other than my loud mouth are at play when deciding to spend some serious money.

Believe me, I'm studying the situation hard. Just paid off my BC2000 chipper and I'm down to one S300k high flow.

I was searching the net for more info on 272c's and found two different burned up salvage machines. I hope they were brush grinding machines. I know of one guy around here who burned up a 268b and have heard reports of many others burned up brush mowing in our neck of the woods (B series). I hope CAT got the kinks out of what was causing the burns in the engine compartment. I have heard theories ranging from pinhole in hydraulic line (making hydraulic oil mist that is easy to ignite) to too much fluff and debris from brush mowing overheating, smoldering, then catching fire.
That's one thing I don't often worry about with the Bobcat. The amount of air drawn out of the machine keeps the compartments fairly clean other than larger debris that falls in from over the radiator or lift arm cylinder openings.

Hmmm. makes me think. A fire here could be disastrous.

YellowDogSVC
01-05-2008, 11:02 PM
I would for sure be looking for a better control system next time around, even if you end up back in a Bobcat I would at least go with E/H. I on occasion run those foot/hand controlled machines and I hate them with a passion. Demo a pilot controlled machine (hell anyones pilot machine) and you will wonder why you have been killing yourself with those hand/foot controls. Especially since BC does not believe in servos/why I don't know.

I tried b series cats. Didn't like it and didn't feel comfy in the cab compared to my Bobcats

SiteSolutions
01-06-2008, 09:42 AM
If all you do is grinding, I would trade in two loaders & mulcher heads and get a deicated machine like a Fecon or Gyrotrac that has been designed from the ground up to do that work. At least a Supertrak Cat would have adequate hp although a soft undercarriage. I see and hear skid steer mulcher stories all the time and the platform just isn't designed for that type of continous duty work. It's homeowner grade at best. Akin to mowing lawns with a Craftsman IMHO.

YellowDogSVC
01-06-2008, 10:56 AM
If all you do is grinding, I would trade in two loaders & mulcher heads and get a deicated machine like a Fecon or Gyrotrac that has been designed from the ground up to do that work. At least a Supertrak Cat would have adequate hp although a soft undercarriage. I see and hear skid steer mulcher stories all the time and the platform just isn't designed for that type of continous duty work. It's homeowner grade at best. Akin to mowing lawns with a Craftsman IMHO.

I strongly disagree with the analogy.
I do not grind 100% of the time and like the idea of the skidsteer as a tool carrier. In fact, I have many attachments and often I have to clear and stack before I can grind so a dedicated machine doesn't make sense at this point in my career but it has been a consideration.

Back to the analogy of a homeowner grade setup. I use a head that is matched to my hydraulic power. Machine itself and the head are not homeowner grade. Yes, HP is less than a dedicated machine but you can still eat an elephant one bite at a time. I can grind anything, anysize, with a skid and it leaves very nice mulch. It just takes longe with a skid but there is a market for smaller jobs where it wouldn't be as cost effective to haul in a dedicated machine. In fact, I am frequently hired to clean up after dedicated machines that don't have the capability of grapple work and leave hangers, trees they couldn't get to, and a general rough mulch that leaves a lot to be desired.
I like what Supertrak builds but the weight is an issue and as far as I can tell, they haven't solved any of the dust in cab issues that are part of this type of work. Seems to me a dust free cab would be a fairly simple solution if a machine was built with that thought in mind. My Bobcats just have too many places for dust to enter: footwell cleanouts, linkage openings, under seat, lights, horn, windows that don't seal well, area where cab meets frame, front door and all the seals, rear, clean-air filter, and windshield wiper motor openings (yeah, dust seeps in there too).

AWJ Services
01-06-2008, 11:37 AM
I have a question.When you are done grinding how much of the stump is left in the Ground?

YellowDogSVC
01-06-2008, 12:16 PM
I have a question.When you are done grinding how much of the stump is left in the Ground?

I can grind to grade and sometimes slightly below if the ground is soft. It also depends on the size of the material. Larger stumps mill better to grade level while smaller brush tends to get beat up and leaves a small, toothbrush like piece sticking up.

I used to have a grinder that went 3" below grade but we were replacing teeth all the time and disturbing the surrounding grasses and vegetation.

AWJ Services
01-06-2008, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the info.

I wish I could afford a setup like yours.
I am still stuck with my Tractor and bush hog.LOL

The other day we were talking about the new Bobcat with the bigger Kubota engine and noticed the Fecon FTX 100 uses the same engine.


http://www.fecon.com/ftx/ftx100.asp

YellowDogSVC
01-06-2008, 03:18 PM
Thanks for the info.

I wish I could afford a setup like yours.
I am still stuck with my Tractor and bush hog.LOL

The other day we were talking about the new Bobcat with the bigger Kubota engine and noticed the Fecon FTX 100 uses the same engine.


http://www.fecon.com/ftx/ftx100.asp


I may be making someone a good deal on a used s300k real soon. :) Runs great just gets dust in the cab which annoys me. I had it sealed good but it started leaking dust again and this time I can't figure where it's coming from!

JRSlawn
01-11-2008, 10:56 PM
I am looking at buying a tracked machine it is between cat and bobcat I am looking at the T190 now will this machine lift and move a full skid of wall block?

RockSet N' Grade
01-12-2008, 12:41 AM
YellowDog.......instead of using regular duct tape, use gorilla tape next time to patch the holes :) :)

YellowDogSVC
01-12-2008, 01:14 AM
rock,
:0
believe it or not, I use the gorilla tape too!

bobcat_ron
01-12-2008, 11:25 AM
I am looking at buying a tracked machine it is between cat and bobcat I am looking at the T190 now will this machine lift and move a full skid of wall block?


No, not the 247, the 257 is a better choice, it's very close the the ROC of the T190, 1850 lbs for the Cat vs. 1900 lbs for the Bobcat.

Sometimes I regret the choice of the 247, I am missing the extra lift height, but then I get into a low over head clearence situation and I say screw it, I still like radius path better.

AWJ Services
01-12-2008, 11:45 AM
I am looking at buying a tracked machine it is between cat and bobcat I am looking at the T190 now will this machine lift and move a full skid of wall block?

Some wall block pallets weigh 3500+ pounds.
I would think it would not .

Scag48
01-12-2008, 11:58 AM
The 257 is a way underpowered machine, don't know if that's been changed in the BII series, but I doubt it. IMO, the only machine I will strongly endorse in Cat's MTL lineup is the 247, 277, 287, and 297.

cat2
02-01-2008, 10:52 AM
-All major loader grease points are inside the pins, and all facing out, you can grease the entire loader without removing the bucket in 3 minutes, that's an impressive feat, it takes me 12 minutes to clean every fitting and remove the bucket on my T190 and reposition the loader, it's a pain.





maybe you already answered this.


Why do you have to remove the bucket on your bobcat. i don't

BIGBEN2004
02-01-2008, 11:19 AM
No, not the 247, the 257 is a better choice, it's very close the the ROC of the T190, 1850 lbs for the Cat vs. 1900 lbs for the Bobcat.

Sometimes I regret the choice of the 247, I am missing the extra lift height, but then I get into a low over head clearence situation and I say screw it, I still like radius path better.
The radial arm path is much better for grading and digging. A radial lift will grade a smoother and more precise job then a vertical lift will ever do. I prefer a radial lift any day over a vertical lift for grading. Loading a truck is a different story but I still do that with mine so I don't care. Did you try a 257 out? A friend of mine has a 257B model and it doesen't carry a flat grade to save its life. I would much rather have your 247B. I always liked the 267 and 277 models with the long tracks and incredible flotation they offered but now they got rid of the long tracks. I need to find a decent used one, one day to buy.

bobcat_ron
02-01-2008, 12:31 PM
-All major loader grease points are inside the pins, and all facing out, you can grease the entire loader without removing the bucket in 3 minutes, that's an impressive feat, it takes me 12 minutes to clean every fitting and remove the bucket on my T190 and reposition the loader, it's a pain.





maybe you already answered this.


Why do you have to remove the bucket on your bobcat. i don't

I had to remove the bucket on the old T190 to get the big grease zerks for the main tilt pins, if you have a flexi-hose on your grease gun, it doesn't matter, but since I always use a combo bucket on every SSL I ever owned, greasing the bucket pins had to be done with the bucket off. It was always harder to get the fittings trying to sneak between the bucket clam shell cylinders and the top of the tracks, very difficult unless it was on a trailer.

bobcat_ron
02-01-2008, 12:42 PM
The radial arm path is much better for grading and digging. A radial lift will grade a smoother and more precise job then a vertical lift will ever do. I prefer a radial lift any day over a vertical lift for grading. Loading a truck is a different story but I still do that with mine so I don't care. Did you try a 257 out? A friend of mine has a 257B model and it doesen't carry a flat grade to save its life. I would much rather have your 247B. I always liked the 267 and 277 models with the long tracks and incredible flotation they offered but now they got rid of the long tracks. I need to find a decent used one, one day to buy.


I would have like to have tried a 257 out, but in the long run I think it would have worn out the tracks faster as it was 1200 pounds heavier, that and a lot of smack talk I read about it was due to having a higher COG and longer chassis made it handle like a bus, if I ever had to buy a second bigger machine, the 277 looks real sweet and tender.

BIGBEN2004
02-01-2008, 01:17 PM
The old 277 were better then the new ones. They had a longer track setup on them which made them almost walk on water. They would honestly make your 247 feel heavy when in mud. I want to find a used one one day and fix it up to good working order and use it on the correct jobs it was intended for.

KRtraxx
02-01-2008, 06:34 PM
The first jobsite I took the 247 to was the pre-load site, 32,000 tonnes of gravel to be more precise.
***This was the rock I was warned to stay the hell away from and I found out why:***

4 hrs of running over and through the rock, not paying too much attention to what was really happening, I occasionally buried the rollers in the 3" minus rock and kept on going, some minor cuts and scratches due to the rock getting caught between the outer lugs and rollers.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures157.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures158.jpg
This is a good one:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures165.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures163.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures164.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures160.jpg

That was only 4 hours, and I only buried it twice, this is the worst and hardest rock to ever see the tracks, based on this, out of 365 possible working days I may only spend 3 full days actually in this stuff and the rest of the time is sent in much finer gravel, in the end it all boiled down to the "nutt behind the butt", I did get careless and I realized what was happening, but I was not put off by it, I just had to adjust my operating styles.
After lunch I headed to another job to play in the dirt, this is where the tracks really came alive in the traction department. I spent 2 hours in the mud and composted manure slime, it was smelly, disgusting and slippery as snot, but that ASV track system never slowed down.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures168.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures172.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures170.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures171.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures169.jpg
Ready to go home and get washed:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/rdj07/Pictures173.jpg

My overall impressions:

-Based on all the "crap" I've heard from the CAT haters, this 247 has just as much pushing power and torque as my T190 does, it's all in the speed and how you work the bucket and loader, getting used to a RPL was the hardest, 4 years of a VPL made me weak.

-Traction was insane, I could easily spin the tracks on compacted gravel if I had to while loading my bucket and going through the slime was even more fun, the softer rubber seems to grip better.

-The whole machine is better built than Bobcat, even O-rings have been placed on the main lower tilt pins, no one does that from what I've seen and it's about bloody time, sure the cab felt small width wise, but it has much more room in length than the Bobcat and it has a cup holder, SCORE!!!

-Cab noise was even lower then Bobcat, at WOT with all 4 windows (YES, 4 windows, rear side windows also slide!!!) hydraulic noises were practically non-existent.

-The tracks and undercarriage are self cleaning, on the Bobcat it was always getting packed into the tracks between the drive motors and the chassis, when you went full speed, you can feel the machine lugging due to the packing, the ASV design eliminates this and everything that can will fall back out leaving the drive motor high and dry.

-All major loader grease points are inside the pins, and all facing out, you can grease the entire loader without removing the bucket in 3 minutes, that's an impressive feat, it takes me 12 minutes to clean every fitting and remove the bucket on my T190 and reposition the loader, it's a pain.

I have not made the phone call to my CAT rep yet as I am still looking into the all steel roller option, but as I have stated before, I had to change my style, I can still run over this coarse rock, just not through it.

Ok all you Cat MTL and ASV guys..As some of you may know from my posts I really do like the VTS system for most applications.But I have to admit the ASV UC still does the best for fine finish grading..But for those of you who use your Cat MTL or ASV in harsh conditions(as the pics show). you really need to check out this site.http://bairproductsinc.com/products.html... Yes the parts are high priced..But then again so are Cats and ASVs.But these Bair replacement parts will last WAY longer..Check it out.... By the way I know some Cat dealers already are offering steel wheels..But none of them offer the poly sleeve for the squirrel cage drive..Have driven a machine with these on and they really do roll easier...I am thinking that track life should increase quite a bit with these rollers being nice and round at all times plus the fact it should roll easier.......http://bairproductsinc.com/products.html

Am not associated with this company..Just think they have some good **** that will help those UCs run longer at a lower cost than a stock UC..

bobcat_ron
02-01-2008, 08:16 PM
I will put myself down for those drive sleeves if and when mine wear out, but I'll definitely get the grease tensioner first.

ksss
02-01-2008, 08:48 PM
I will put myself down for those drive sleeves if and when mine wear out, but I'll definitely get the grease tensioner first.


Nothing like buying a brand new machine, and then taking orders from the aftermarket to make it right. Go CAT!!:clapping:

bobcat_ron
02-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Not really, if you had a CTL that you thought the tracks were not the best and you opted for after market companies tracks, is that wrong too?

Digdeep
02-01-2008, 10:33 PM
Ok all you Cat MTL and ASV guys..As some of you may know from my posts I really do like the VTS system for most applications.But I have to admit the ASV UC still does the best for fine finish grading..But for those of you who use your Cat MTL or ASV in harsh conditions(as the pics show). you really need to check out this site.http://bairproductsinc.com/products.html... Yes the parts are high priced..But then again so are Cats and ASVs.But these Bair replacement parts will last WAY longer..Check it out.... By the way I know some Cat dealers already are offering steel wheels..But none of them offer the poly sleeve for the squirrel cage drive..Have driven a machine with these on and they really do roll easier...I am thinking that track life should increase quite a bit with these rollers being nice and round at all times plus the fact it should roll easier.......http://bairproductsinc.com/products.html

Am not associated with this company..Just think they have some good **** that will help those UCs run longer at a lower cost than a stock UC..

What does it do to the machine warranty? My guess is that it would void it.

Please don't get me wrong KRTraxx this question is only for my curiosity and I have enjoyed your posts so far and I think you have a lot to offer here, but don't you work for Loegering who is owned by ASV who will soon be owned by Terex? Do they have a policy on employees posting on public forums? I hope not because I think the more the merrier.

Digdeep
02-01-2008, 10:54 PM
KRTraxx that post sounds pretty bad but it wasn't meant to. I seem to remember you saying that you worked for Loegering. I guess I was reading it and thinking about your post from an employers perspective and wondering what they'd think if you were recommending someone elses product. I think it's great for all of us to find out about parts or improvements to our machines that will make them cheaper to operate. I just don't want to see you get hammered for posting.

KRtraxx
02-02-2008, 12:09 AM
KRTraxx that post sounds pretty bad but it wasn't meant to. I seem to remember you saying that you worked for Loegering. I guess I was reading it and thinking about your post from an employers perspective and wondering what they'd think if you were recommending someone elses product. I think it's great for all of us to find out about parts or improvements to our machines that will make them cheaper to operate. I just don't want to see you get hammered for posting.

Digdeep,,thanks for your post,is much appreciated..No I do not work for Loegering at all.Maybe your thinking of "Traction" on here..he does work for them I think.. I do sell their products and believe in them,but thats all.. I also sell Gehl/Mustang/New Holland and ASV..I used to sell skids for Cat also before doing this...I try not to be brand oriented.But I have no problem giving my opinion about a strength or weakness about a product I sell or have sold as long as its the truth IMO...Nobodies product(including mine) is perfect for all situations....I dont sell Cat ,Case,Deere or Bobcat now but if I know something that can help those owners out I dont hesitate to show anything I might have run across that would help them.. Ive always thought that sales people should understand that the whole world isnt going to want to buy only the product you sell..Being open minded about this I hope will at least gain a guy the respect of the customers in the same circle of business.......and besides,, ALL those skids out there have a universal latch to which 100,s of attachments will fit...Is it good for my business to recognize all the brands out there?? YES I believe so.... I wanted to be independant so I could be upfront with customers... I think it was a good choice....

Digdeep
02-02-2008, 07:37 AM
KRTraxx thanks for the info on the aftermarket parts and sorry for any misunderstanding. I noticed that ASV just released their PT series and they have rear metal wheels and metal face seals now. Have you seen the other thread on this forum regarding hydraulic hp? I think it would be an interesting read for you since you sell Gehl/Mustang and ASV. It appears somebody posted a sales seminar that ASV gave at their dealer meeting last fall and it focuses on some of the RC100s selling points against the 297C especially the hydraulic hps. You should read it and chime in where you can.

KRtraxx
02-02-2008, 09:51 AM
KRTraxx thanks for the info on the aftermarket parts and sorry for any misunderstanding. I noticed that ASV just released their PT series and they have rear metal wheels and metal face seals now. Have you seen the other thread on this forum regarding hydraulic hp? I think it would be an interesting read for you since you sell Gehl/Mustang and ASV. It appears somebody posted a sales seminar that ASV gave at their dealer meeting last fall and it focuses on some of the RC100s selling points against the 297C especially the hydraulic hps. You should read it and chime in where you can.

Thanks Digdeep...No I havent noticed the thread on the hyd.HP...I do know that over the years some attachment companies actually have done their own REAL world flow testing with a flow meter and pressure check to determine TRUE hyd hp..The numbers some skid companies actually print have not always been right on the money...As far as comparing the ASV to the M/Gehl?? The ASV does do well with its Hi-flow. The M/G are both TK built units..But TK does NOT offer a factory Hi-flow option.(aftermarket does) Gehl and Mustang have designed their own units for their TK based CTLs....And hyd. hp they DO have! Now the cooling of the M/G hyd.system I have not got a chance to test properly yet.The ASV/Cats do well with their hyd. cooling if the coolers are kept clean.An aftermarket cooler might be needed on the M/G.not sure yet..This is interesting to me right now because I have a customer who owns an RC 100 I sold him 3 years ago for brush mowing that has requested I demo him a Gehl/Mustang Hi-flow unit this coming week..He loves the ride and Hyd.HP of his ASV but is looking around and comparing other units on the market for his second unit(will be running 2 now) due to the UC costs he has had on the ASV..He has kept VERY detailed records and showed them to me..At 820 hrs his UC expense was a little over 11K..and that was him doing ALL his own labor..Granted brush mowing is a nasty app.and torn tracks/etc. can happen when running over buried objects/etc..But even so his costs per hr have been high.Cant blame him for looking around.....

Here is a link to some non brand biased hyd.hp numbers from an independant co. I havent verified whether these are numbers they themselves have actually tested.But its an online chart that availible for anyone to do some basic comparisons. I noticed the new Cat 297 is not listed on there yet...http://www.loftness.com/guide/

AWJ Services
02-02-2008, 10:09 AM
In my Takeuchi owners manual it has High flow listed as an option.
I have always been told it is not available.

In the previous posts about the G/M there was reference to the wheeled units being it has such a large engine.

The big G/M CTL they have listed at 76 hyd HP.
Thats pretty good.

ksss
02-02-2008, 11:42 AM
Not really, if you had a CTL that you thought the tracks were not the best and you opted for after market companies tracks, is that wrong too?


These are not tracks your buying. These are grease tensioners, drive cage, and by the time your done with it I am sure a couple of Larry Lugs. That is hardly similiar to buying aftermarket tracks. Tracks are a wear item, and typically that is not an issue of poor engineering, which this is. You will likely not agree, but CAT had an oportunity to at least get some of these things right on this last series. To bad for you they chose not to. CAT certainly has given the aftermarket a niche to fill by correcting at least some of these issues with redesigned components for their undercarriage. Carry on.:weightlifter:

BIGBEN2004
02-02-2008, 12:05 PM
These are not tracks your buying. These are grease tensioners, drive cage, and by the time your done with it I am sure a couple of Larry Lugs. That is hardly similiar to buying aftermarket tracks. Tracks are a wear item, and typically that is not an issue of poor engineering, which this is. You will likely not agree, but CAT had an oportunity to at least get some of these things right on this last series. To bad for you they chose not to. CAT certainly has given the aftermarket a niche to fill by correcting at least some of these issues with redesigned components for their undercarriage. Carry on.:weightlifter:
I agree with you on that. If I had known about those lug replacements that would have come in handy at the last company I worked at. The 267 they had would rip the lugs off and it was a pain to run since they wouldn't spend all the money to replace the tracks just because the lugs were missing.

hansondirtman
02-02-2008, 12:34 PM
ASV has had grease tensioners available for the RC-50 style since since 2002 or 2003, it's right on their option pricelist.

AWJ Services
02-02-2008, 01:06 PM
At 820 hrs his UC expense was a little over 11K..and that was him doing ALL his own labor..


Not bad 15 dollars an hour.Thats 120 a day and 600 a week,2400 a month and 28k a year.
Thats the best the machine will ever do because after it gets older it will cost more to maintain.

I was cleaning up after some trees were removed from a yard and there was a couple stumps that were not ground all the way.I decided to dig them up so i started digging around in a circle to get to all the tap roots.
Well the hole was tapered towards the stump and the ground was a little damp.The machine slid up against the stump and bound the track up and ran it off.I was stuck in the hole sideways with the machine leaning at a pretty good angle to the side the track came off.I should have taken a picture but I was freaking out at the time.
I picked the machine up with the bucket,let the grease out of the tensioner and ran the track back on with the wheel motor.Re tensioned it and was gone in a a very short period with no damage to the tracks.I can not accurately portray the mess I was in and the Homeowner was a little worried.;)

I would say the Cat/ASV would not have been near as cooperative and I am sure I would have damaged a track.I can deal with most any discomfort other than too my Wallet.

Construct'O
02-02-2008, 01:50 PM
Just think if you had gotten you an MTL you could have just gotten out you trusty wrench loosed the track tighter,that was hardly rusted.Will you might have needed a bigger pipe wrench ,cheater pipe, and a couple cans of WD 40,one can of Rust Bust,plus who knows what else.

Just think if you would have had the MTL machine track system you probably won't have thrown the track to start with:rolleyes:!!!!!

Then try to figure out how to get the track back on with the lugs that ripped off before you got stopped in time,plus who know what else happened.

So all and all it sounds like you got along pretty darn easy.Your a lucky guy to own the simple,easy to maintain system.Owner/operator friendly system maybe we should call it.

With all that said good to hear things went well with out to much troubles.

O by the way when you get older you might want to had your body to the list of things that you can,t stand to much pain too.:cry::usflag:

AWJ Services
02-02-2008, 02:31 PM
O by the way when you get older you might want to had your body to the list of things that you can,t stand to much pain too

I think I am already there with the pain to my body.LOL

Digdeep
02-02-2008, 09:01 PM
Thanks Digdeep...No I havent noticed the thread on the hyd.HP...I do know that over the years some attachment companies actually have done their own REAL world flow testing with a flow meter and pressure check to determine TRUE hyd hp..The numbers some skid companies actually print have not always been right on the money...As far as comparing the ASV to the M/Gehl?? The ASV does do well with its Hi-flow. The M/G are both TK built units..But TK does NOT offer a factory Hi-flow option.(aftermarket does) Gehl and Mustang have designed their own units for their TK based CTLs....And hyd. hp they DO have! Now the cooling of the M/G hyd.system I have not got a chance to test properly yet.The ASV/Cats do well with their hyd. cooling if the coolers are kept clean.An aftermarket cooler might be needed on the M/G.not sure yet..This is interesting to me right now because I have a customer who owns an RC 100 I sold him 3 years ago for brush mowing that has requested I demo him a Gehl/Mustang Hi-flow unit this coming week..He loves the ride and Hyd.HP of his ASV but is looking around and comparing other units on the market for his second unit(will be running 2 now) due to the UC costs he has had on the ASV..He has kept VERY detailed records and showed them to me..At 820 hrs his UC expense was a little over 11K..and that was him doing ALL his own labor..Granted brush mowing is a nasty app.and torn tracks/etc. can happen when running over buried objects/etc..But even so his costs per hr have been high.Cant blame him for looking around.....

Here is a link to some non brand biased hyd.hp numbers from an independant co. I havent verified whether these are numbers they themselves have actually tested.But its an online chart that availible for anyone to do some basic comparisons. I noticed the new Cat 297 is not listed on there yet...http://www.loftness.com/guide/

KRtraxx those numbers from Loftness are only calculated not actual.

The uc costs you mention may be why ASV released a program last fall that would allow you customer to replace his entire RC100 undercarriage for less than $10,000. That would include the entire uc assembly less the drive motor, frames wheels, wheel tubes, sprockets, etc. I've checked and I can get a whole new RC50 undercarriage for just over $7k although I can't see why i would need to replace my uc rails but even if I changed the entire setup out at 1,000 hours it would only cost me $7.50 an hour.

KRtraxx
02-05-2008, 04:10 PM
KRtraxx those numbers from Loftness are only calculated not actual.

The uc costs you mention may be why ASV released a program last fall that would allow you customer to replace his entire RC100 undercarriage for less than $10,000. That would include the entire uc assembly less the drive motor, frames wheels, wheel tubes, sprockets, etc. I've checked and I can get a whole new RC50 undercarriage for just over $7k although I can't see why i would need to replace my uc rails but even if I changed the entire setup out at 1,000 hours it would only cost me $7.50 an hour.

Am not sure off hand about the RC 50 UC costs...But a "dealer" can not even buy the replacement RC 100 UC for that 10K..It lists for well over 13K.But that replacement unit IS becoming the norm since they introduced it..They are new units right off the assembly line with all the latest updated the new models have....In this area the RC 100 is the most common brush mowing skid guys run..This particular customer bought all the parts he needed and did all the work himself.Sometimes individual parts costs more than a complete factory built unit does..

KRtraxx
02-05-2008, 04:19 PM
KRtraxx those numbers from Loftness are only calculated not actual.

The uc costs you mention may be why ASV released a program last fall that would allow you customer to replace his entire RC100 undercarriage for less than $10,000. That would include the entire uc assembly less the drive motor, frames wheels, wheel tubes, sprockets, etc. I've checked and I can get a whole new RC50 undercarriage for just over $7k although I can't see why i would need to replace my uc rails but even if I changed the entire setup out at 1,000 hours it would only cost me $7.50 an hour.

Yes your right Digdeep those numbers from Loftness are calculated..I noticed a few errors on there after I posted.I was just trying to find a chart that was availible on the net for guys to look at on here.. I emailed Loftness about their chart and they were nice enough to respond below.

""""I will be updating the attachment guide and charts this month. Our
specs are not tested we rely their published specs and we use the
hydraulic HP formula as follows:

GPM x PSI x .9 (efficiency factor)/1714=hydraulic HP

We try to check as many units as we can and we find a vary wide range
of discrepancies even on new skid steers.

Thanks, Loftness"""