Now No Weed is Safe

[wooley99]

The ornamentals may not be safe either...;)

$150, one day in class, one test and 3 weeks later and I'm legal to spray Roundup, et al. in beds. Next summer I'll still be yanking weeds from beds but hopefully I'll be yanking out dead ones.

After I buy sprayers, signs, spill kit, log book, lock box and all the other crap required to be legal in the Sunshine State of course. If there's any cash left maybe I can get some Killsall too..:walking:

[Marcos]

The ornamentals may not be safe either...;)

$150, one day in class, one test and 3 weeks later and I'm legal to spray Roundup, et al. in beds. Next summer I'll still be yanking weeds from beds but hopefully I'll be yanking out dead ones.

After I buy sprayers, signs, spill kit, log book, lock box and all the other crap required to be legal in the Sunshine State of course. If there's any cash left maybe I can get some Killsall too..:walking:

Congrats, wooley!
Are you now legal to apply PRE-EMERGENTS in beds as well, as a result of your testing success?

pre-emergents (for example). granular form: Treflan, Snapshot, Ronstar, Lesco Pre-M 1.5%, Casoron ,etc.

sprayable form: Gallery, Dimension, Barricade, Oryzalin (surflan)
let me know if I can help you with ideas!

[wooley99]

Marcos,

I welcome any ideas. I've got a "Limited Landscape Commercial Operator" license. Which basically means (I'll get hammered on here if I get this wrong, but here goes); I can apply "CAUTION" labeled pesticides (in this state that means insecticide, herbicide, fungicide) to plants and surfaces in beds. I can't do anything to turf areas or gardens.

I intend to Pre-M beds and then spot treat weeds with Glyphosate or similar. And I can finally try and get rid of the scale that is causing sooty mold on some holly, gardenia and Indian Hawthorne on my properties with oils. That is if I can figure out how to evenly coat the underside of leaves without also evenly coating the outside of sunrooms. I'll also have to experiment in my yard with fluazifop before I try and go after torpedo and bermuda grass in some shrubs.

I guess I'll be doing whatever the label says on whatever the Lesco guys, my extension agent and/or the stuff I've searched on this site recommend.

Next year should be fun and I don't have to worry about cease and desist orders or $5,000 fines from Mike, my friendly Dept of Ag inspector.

Thanks...

[MarcSmith]

merit granular .5 or 2.5 g for your systemic control of pests, scales, aphids, ect. works well, no sprays, no mess full year control.

Congrats for being legit....I had my full CPO in floirda. Well worth it.

[Ric]

merit granular .5 or 2.5 g for your systemic control of pests, scales, aphids, ect. works well, no sprays, no mess full year control.

Congrats for being legit....I had my full CPO in floirda. Well worth it.

Marc

Just a side note about Merit's year long control. While it may work well for a year in many parts of the country, S.W. Florida has extremely sandy soil and a year round growing season. Therefore I have found Merit to only give 4 to 6 month control at most, under these conditions.

[MarcSmith]

I got year long control in Orlando.... and being thats he's in North west Fl, he might get some more of the GA clay working down....might get better control.

even with 4-6 months control I still found that spreading some Merit G was much easier than dragging the hose :)

[Marcos]

Marcos,

I welcome any ideas. I've got a "Limited Landscape Commercial Operator" license. Which basically means (I'll get hammered on here if I get this wrong, but here goes); I can apply "CAUTION" labeled pesticides (in this state that means insecticide, herbicide, fungicide) to plants and surfaces in beds. I can't do anything to turf areas or gardens.

I intend to Pre-M beds and then spot treat weeds with Glyphosate or similar. And I can finally try and get rid of the scale that is causing sooty mold on some holly, gardenia and Indian Hawthorne on my properties with oils. That is if I can figure out how to evenly coat the underside of leaves without also evenly coating the outside of sunrooms. I'll also have to experiment in my yard with fluazifop before I try and go after torpedo and bermuda grass in some shrubs.

I guess I'll be doing whatever the label says on whatever the Lesco guys, my extension agent and/or the stuff I've searched on this site recommend.

Next year should be fun and I don't have to worry about cease and desist orders or $5,000 fines from Mike, my friendly Dept of Ag inspector.

Thanks...

Well,
I'm a lot further north than you. But interestingly, I do see some of the same weeds down sometimes in the landscape when I vacation in FLA.
Although some of the weeds may be out of my league, I may be able to make up for that a little in just depth of knowledge in the business.

Let's start with Weeds:

What's your #1 weed problem?
What is YOUR idea of product to use for bed pre-emergent, right now?
What are your peers using in the area?
Do you prefer to use (or equiped to use) liquids, or granulars in the beds?

How much mulch would you apply every spring, and would you 'turn' it occasionally?
What kind of bed herbicide application equipment do you have, if any?
And do you indeed have a sand base, or is it primarily clay, or other?

[wooley99]

Thanks for the help. All I've ever done with any chemicals up to now was my lawn. I've only been doing other properties one season. I'll answer each of your questions and hopefully learn...

What's your #1 weed problem?
FL has one weed for every biting bug so we have a bunch. The biggest problems I've had using only manual weed control are dollarweed and chamber bitter though. I may have better luck with the chamber bitter since learning the seeds germinate later than our other spring weeds and will need another application of Pre-M at about 70F ground temp.

What is YOUR idea of product to use for bed pre-emergent, right now?
I've only used Scotts Halt and Lesco 0-0-8 Pre-M. I believe both are Pendimethaline. And to date, in my yard I used the same stuff at the same times in beds and turf. I need to determine if there's something else that is better for beds only.

What are your peers using in the area?
Honestly I don't know. I haven't been around long enough to find too many. Those who I suspect are all legal and knowledgeable are busy when I see them and I think not likely to want to talk shop with the little jacka$$ who's in their territory. The Lesco guys (and girl) are good about what they recommend.

Do you prefer to use (or equiped to use) liquids, or granulars in the beds?
I don't know enough to have a preference of liquid or granular yet. I'm limited to backpack, pump sprayer by license. I prefer handhelds for both spreading and spraying but none of the properties I do except a couple condos merit wearing a backpack.

How much mulch would you apply every spring, and would you 'turn' it occasionally?

My full service lawns are for minimum 1" mulch in mulched, established beds. I over do most things and they get ~2". The mulch gets "fluffed" at each weeding. About 4 x year.

What kind of bed herbicide application equipment do you have, if any?
None.

And do you indeed have a sand base, or is it primarily clay, or other?
Existing properties (most of my current ones) are sand. All sand all the way down. I've bailed 50 wells around here and you don't hit pea gravel for 6-10'. The new homes are being build up on straight red clay so the beds are often a mixture of both.

[MarcSmith]

you can get by with treating shrubs with granular and a backpack sprayer....And not to sound redneckish here, but a hose end sprayer can bail you out of a lot of jams. You need base your applications on a more of a preventive as if you get an infestation, getting control with granular is next to impossible and the backpack isn't much better(low volume, lwo pressure, poor penetration) Usually you can get local IPM scouting reports so you can get an idea of what other folks are seeing so you can be ready.....

regular scouting of the shrubs and being able to "spot" spray a couple shrubs when you see a few buggies make a big difference in your chemical usage. Place like TGCL don't scout, they just hose-em til they die....If you are doing regular weekly maintenace of a house, you'll see things on the shrubs....

I woudl really recomend that you try to get some experience and get the CPO full Lic under your belt...turf spraying is easy money, and no one likes chinch bugs, moles crickets or fire ants.....Use the extension office. IFAS is like free gold....good materials, and good people. you pay taxes to employ them, make em earn their keep.


I had two tanks a 50 in the truck and a 100 on a trailer with a boomless rig for the larger properties that i could tow behind the Lazer...keep your eyes out for PCO's going out of business, both of my tanks were used adn I got both tanks, 2 Stainless lesco spreaders 500 feet of hose for under 1000 bucks.....Evenif you can't legally use them on turf, if you find a good a deal jump on it so you will ready for the day that you can use them on turf....

[Marcos]

you can get by with treating shrubs with granular and a backpack sprayer....

Marc,

Sounds like you're on top of it...
Do you think he can really get by with granular pendimethalin, like he said in his blog, or do the types of weeds he mentioned deserve something more radical?
And how many times a year would a landscaper typically apply Pre-M 1.5% 0-0-8 in Florida?

Up here in Buckeyeland, when we want to get serious about weed control (in granular form), we turn to Snapshot or Ronstar.
Pendimethalin, treflan, etc. is the minor leagues, at least as far as landscapes are concerned.
And I use Casoron G sparingly, for Canadian Thistle control, in areas FAR away from the chance of runoff into turf.

[MarcSmith]

personally....putting granular down prior to adding new mulch I have had some decent results....but no matter what I still ended up using roudup and a backpack for the crack weeds, so I always ended up having the pack on...once you put down a pre-em...you need to stay out of the bed to keep the chemical barrier in tact. if you go into the bed for pruning, or to pull a weed or two, or the homeowners goes stomping through the bed you end up with sporadic control..

For weeds roudup(glyphosate) is the best....its cheap, its easy. you can keep it loaded in the pack, it doesn't break down or come out of solution...

I used Snapshot...and pre-m and ronstar and IMO they all work about the same.... even doing liquid apps the results are about the same as granular. florida is tough the sandy soils don't allow a good layer to be built, and IMO a granular prior to mulch is about as good as anything. But weeds will still come up...the only beds i would really focus on with granular pre-em's would be roses, azaleas, rhodies...as these shrube really exhibit more of a tendency to get dinged by glyphosate and drift.

IMO the key with any granular/systemic/preventive app is that you need to be proactive with your treatments rather than reactive....it forces you to set up a good program rather than waiting until you see evidence to spray/spread.... but weeds in shrub beds,,,it seems no matter what you still got em....

[Marcos]

What's your #1 weed problem?
FL has one weed for every biting bug so we have a bunch. The biggest problems I've had using only manual weed control are dollarweed and chamber bitter though. I may have better luck with the chamber bitter since learning the seeds germinate later than our other spring weeds and will need another application of Pre-M at about 70F ground temp.check the pre-m 1.5% label for anything that isn't covered here. I guess if history proves this product works for you, use it! Otherwise, I'd suggest going to Snapshot for the more troublesome beds. It's a MUCH finer grained particle than Pre-M and MUCH more expensive, but it can pay you back $$ in callback time
----------
What is YOUR idea of product to use for bed pre-emergent, right now?
I've only used Scotts Halt and Lesco 0-0-8 Pre-M. I believe both are Pendimethalin. And to date, in my yard I used the same stuff at the same times in beds and turf. I need to determine if there's something else that is better for beds only.

What are your peers using in the area?
Honestly I don't know. I haven't been around long enough to find too many. Those who I suspect are all legal and knowledgeable are busy when I see them and I think not likely to want to talk shop with the little jacka$$ who's in their territory. The Lesco guys (and girl) are good about what they recommend.

Do you prefer to use (or equipped to use) liquids, or granulars in the beds?
I don't know enough to have a preference of liquid or granular yet. I'm limited to backpack, pump sprayer by license. I prefer handhelds for both spreading and spraying but none of the properties I do except a couple condos merit wearing a backpack. Dow gives out these nice little plastic 'training trays' to use should you want to try to go with Snapshot. It helps you get a visual of what actual IS 100#/ ACRE, 200# /ACRE so you and your crew will learn not to WASTE the more expensive product.

How much mulch would you apply every spring, and would you 'turn' it occasionally?

My full service lawns are for minimum 1" mulch in mulched, established beds. I over do most things and they get ~2". The mulch gets "fluffed" at each weeding. About 4 x year.

What kind of bed herbicide application equipment do you have, if any?
None. Lesco markets what I think they call a 'Spread Rite G' ( they used to be called 'Casoron spreaders' when they 1st came out, designed 1st for use for spot thistle control with Casoron G herbicide) Try one or two of those if you haven't already! They're about $20 or so each, and they can help you TARGET tight spots.

And do you indeed have a sand base, or is it primarily clay, or other?
Existing properties (most of my current ones) are sand. All sand all the way down. I've bailed 50 wells around here and you don't hit pea gravel for 6-10'. The new homes are being build up on straight red clay so the beds are often a mixture of both.
Tell me if I'm wrong But that scenario you described indicates to me that you should maybe try doing multiple applications of pre-emergent in the beds, at small rates each time.
Right?

[Ric]

yo

Guys get smart. Add pre-emerge to your Roundup tank. Fact is you spray the same spots all the time and pre emerge will cut your spray time and material costs.

[fred333]

Very good suggestions.

[MarcSmith]

yo

Guys get smart. Add pre-emerge to your Roundup tank. Fact is you spray the same spots all the time and pre emerge will cut your spray time and material costs. yeah but the funny orange color doesn't look good on the concrete when you spray crack weeds.

[Marcos]

yeah but the funny orange color doesn't look good on the concrete when you spray crack weeds.

Marc,

Does anyone down there use water soluble Ronstar packets with glyphosate?
Those don't stain.

[MarcSmith]

the last time I used a pre-em mixed with roundup was whe I was in florida, which was 8 years ago or so, and at that time I was not aware of any pre-em type stuff that wasn't day glo orange.....:)

I'm not sure a backpack would put down enough material to get any control, but every little bit helps.....

[Marcos]

the last time I used a pre-em mixed with roundup was whe I was in florida, which was 8 years ago or so, and at that time I was not aware of any pre-em type stuff that wasn't day glo orange.....:)

I'm not sure a backpack would put down enough material to get any control, but every little bit helps.....

Yeah, don't you think that a lot of backpack pre-emergent mixes are kind of like a landscaper's version of the medical term 'placebo effect'?

(In other words, taking a pill that a doctor tells you will take care of your problem, but secretly it's just a sugar tablet that ends up giving more comfort to you psychologically!!)

Regardless, no question that they certainly are a big margin-maker for the vendors!

[rcreech]

I always hear about people using Glyphosate for bed control...but what do you guys do when the bed is covered about 50% with perennials and the weeds are growing "in the flowers of shrubs"? How do you handle this when using Gly?

I personally have been using Lontrel and Fus, but just wondering how you are using a non select in flower beds and not getting any injury to off target plants.

Thanks,

RC

[Marcos]

I always hear about people using Glyphosate for bed control...but what do you guys do when the bed is covered about 50% with perennials and the weeds are growing "in the flowers of shrubs"? How do you handle this when using Gly?

I personally have been using Lontrel and Fus, but just wondering how you are using a non select in flower beds and not getting any injury to off target plants.

Thanks,

RC

I made my own setup to handle this.

I took a Gilmour 2 gallon sprayer with a brass tube and I reinforced the strength of the tube by taping it strongly to a very thin, long piece of stainless steel. I taped in 1/2 of the way up the tube a 'fishing rod' style eye. The reason for this I'll go in to in a minute...

I then took one of the clear plastic 'spray deflectors' designed for use on the solo backback nozzles, and slid it down the tube so that the cupped end faces towards the nozzle. I carefully drilled a hole in the back 'lip' of the deflector that I attached to another stainless rod. This exposed rod serves as the 'control' rod to raise and lower the spray deflector as you need to, without bending over to do it. On the top end of the rod by the spray handle I just have a push / pull knob.

The only problem wear / tear spot I've had trouble with is at the spot where the rod I had made was bolted in to the plastic deflector. I went back and bought 3 more deflectors and put it on with more reinforcement.
Now I've got 2 that have held strong for (at least ) 2-3 years.

[olive123]

wolley i believe you can only apply a liquid app to those areas not a granular, or has the law changed again?

[Marcos]

wolley i believe you can only apply a liquid app to those areas not a granular, or has the law changed again?

Is Florida like that?
If so, that's stupid! :dizzy:
What difference does it make?

...sounds like it could be another state 'revenue enhancement' maneuver to me!

[wooley99]

From the IFAS site:

"Limited certification for commercial landscape maintenance personnel has been established to authorize them to apply herbicides for controlling weeds in plant beds and to perform integrated pest management on ornamental plants using the following materials: insecticides and fungicides having the signal word "caution" on the label, but not having the word "warning" or "danger" on the label. The certified person is limited to using portable, hand-held 3-gallon compressed air sprayers or backpack sprayers having no more than a 5-gallon capacity. Power equipment may not be used. Each person who applies the pesticides permitted by this limited certification category must be certified."

It appears maybe I can't legally use granular on beds I guess. I may plead ignorance since other parts of the license refer to mixed pre-m and fert for beds. It also doesn't refer to any type of hand-held spreader or shaker can. The one thing this state's rules and requirements are not is clear-cut and easy to locate. It's easier to ask forgiveness...

[Ric]

From the IFAS site:

"Limited certification for commercial landscape maintenance personnel has been established to authorize them to apply herbicides for controlling weeds in plant beds and to perform integrated pest management on ornamental plants using the following materials: insecticides and fungicides having the signal word "caution" on the label, but not having the word "warning" or "danger" on the label. The certified person is limited to using portable, hand-held 3-gallon compressed air sprayers or backpack sprayers having no more than a 5-gallon capacity. Power equipment may not be used. Each person who applies the pesticides permitted by this limited certification category must be certified."

It appears maybe I can't legally use granular on beds I guess. I may plead ignorance since other parts of the license refer to mixed pre-m and fert for beds. It also doesn't refer to any type of hand-held spreader or shaker can. The one thing this state's rules and requirements are not is clear-cut and easy to locate. It's easier to ask forgiveness...

Wooley

Use your common sense and interpret the law by intent not by actual wording. If you read the law by actual wording, you can not spray weeds in the sidewalk or driveway Etc. No Agi inspector is going to gig you for killing weeds in a home Driveway. Call your local Agi Inspector and ask for a Clarification of the law just to put your mind at rest. Meeting with your Agi Inspector is actually a wise thing since his job is to help you.

[Grits]

Wooley

Use your common sense and interpret the law by intent not by actual wording. If you read the law by actual wording, you can not spray weeds in the sidewalk or driveway Etc. No Agi inspector is going to gig you for killing weeds in a home Driveway. Call your local Agi Inspector and ask for a Clarification of the law just to put your mind at rest. Meeting with your Agi Inspector is actually a wise thing since his job is to help you.

I HAVE talked to the local Ag inspector (wooley and I have the same inspector). He said you CAN spray cracks in concrete.

[GreenT]

The one thing this state's rules and requirements are not is clear-cut and easy to locate.


You can say THAT again! :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: