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GradeMan
11-28-2007, 10:23 AM
What to do with smokers in equipment? I had a guy say that it is right for me to provide him a smoke free environment? :hammerhead:Most of the operators smoke. I smoke aswell but how much could a excavator\ dozer stink when you have half the cabs windows\ doors opened? I thought this would be a good discussion, Any ideas?

tamadrummer
11-28-2007, 11:10 AM
Unless you don't smoke, you have no clue how bad it stinks! Get some windex and a white paper towel and clean something inside the cab. You will be amazed at how much tar/nicotine and whatever else burns in smokes is on everything in the cab.

Personally, since I smoked for 21 years, I would not complain but if this guy calls the labor board after talking to you about it. It could become ugly for you. Non-smokers and Re-formed smokers are like dealing with hall monitors from school but worse. They actually have power and don't understand what they can do with it until it is too late!

Department of Labor was just called in on one of the BIG mower shops here in Land O Lakes and they have played heck with them all over 1 bad apple that does not appreciate having a great job and even better benefits with a small family type working environment.

Either get rid of him and only hire smokers or give him a smoke free cab that is clean and used only by non-smoking people!!

Good Luck!

bobcat_ron
11-28-2007, 12:10 PM
Pull the windows out of the cab, that'll make it easier, or just get a job moving manure and sewage waste, that'll smell better.

freddyc
11-28-2007, 12:38 PM
Unless you don't smoke, you have no clue how bad it stinks! Get some windex and a white paper towel and clean something inside the cab. You will be amazed at how much tar/nicotine and whatever else burns in smokes is on everything in the cab.

Personally, since I smoked for 21 years, I would not complain but if this guy calls the labor board after talking to you about it. It could become ugly for you. Non-smokers and Re-formed smokers are like dealing with hall monitors from school but worse. They actually have power and don't understand what they can do with it until it is too late!

Department of Labor was just called in on one of the BIG mower shops here in Land O Lakes and they have played heck with them all over 1 bad apple that does not appreciate having a great job and even better benefits with a small family type working environment.

Either get rid of him and only hire smokers or give him a smoke free cab that is clean and used only by non-smoking people!!

Good Luck!




There's no requirement to provide a smoke free environment...in short, unless there's 2 people in the cab and one is smoking, it is a smoke free environment.


With regard to residual smell, sure....but if this guy doesn't like it, tell him to go buy his own equipment and ins and so on and youll consider him as a sub. Sounds like he's unfit to perform the duties of the job to me.



And the labor board cant and wont do anything about this...theres no violation of rights in any way....you have nothing to worry about. Tell the guy to bring his own windex, show up 15 minutes early to work, and wipe down any area he sees fit.

Next he will tell you diesel stinks and you need to install a hybrid skidsteer.....there's better help out there.

And for the record, I don't smoke and never have.

MarcSmith
11-28-2007, 01:11 PM
What to do with smokers in equipment? I had a guy say that it is right for me to provide him a smoke free environment? :hammerhead:Most of the operators smoke. I smoke aswell but how much could a excavator\ dozer stink when you have half the cabs windows\ doors opened? I thought this would be a good discussion, Any ideas?
it stinks....no doubt about it....and technically if he's in the cab by himself and not smoking, it is a smoke free environment. On campus we have all vehicles and buildings as smoke free. and the smokers abide by the policy.

IMO it takes two hands to operate machinery safely take your hands off the control to flick a cherry and toss out a cig you take the chance of something bad happening. or a cherry falling in your crotch or falling on the seat burning holes in the seat.....I am reformed smoker....and I can't stand the stale smell anymore....the fresh smoke smell I'm ok with...go figure...

since you smoke you don't notice it, but put a non smoker int he cab and everyone will know its been smoked in....the odor is that intense

Gravel Rat
11-28-2007, 02:20 PM
It stinks like h*ll after somebody has smoked in a machine especially if the person is a regular smoker and uses the machine the most that stench never leaves. With some new laws in B.C. it is making it illegal for people to smoke at the work place period. You can't smoke in buildings or vehicals etc. I think that is a good rule because why do non smokers have to smell that crap.

The companies I have worked for the guys that smoked did it outside of the machine. It is becoming company policy if you get caught smoking in company building etc you can be fired.

Dirt Digger2
11-28-2007, 03:13 PM
no smoking in cab equipment or in trucks...open stations they can smoke as much as they want

verant
11-28-2007, 03:24 PM
i have a simple soulution....DON'T SMOKE :hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

i would have said the same thing if i was that employee.

IA_James
11-28-2007, 03:44 PM
i have a simple soulution....DON'T SMOKE :hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

i would have said the same thing if i was that employee.

It's his equipment, if he wants to smoke and allow people to smoke, then he can. If this guy is crying about smoke smell, something else will be right behind it if he figures out he can get his way by throwing a big enough fit.

Gravel Rat
11-28-2007, 04:24 PM
With the cost of ciggarettes in B.C. who in their right mind thinks its cheap to spend 19 dollars a day on cigs. They are something like 9 dollars a pack.

My dad quit about a year ago he has seen how much money he has saved etc. Now he notices the rotten stench of ciggarette smoke the rest of the familly has endured for years.

Now with woman that smoke that is just disgusting especially the ones with yellow nic fingers:cry:

The smell of american made tobacco smells even worse than canadian made ciggarettes. You can really tell when somebody is smoking a US brand cig.

Then you get some of these english guys they say if you want to go smoke a f@g which is what they call Ciggarettes in the UK. It is really funny when they go into the store and ask the person behind the counter if they can get a pack of fags. :laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
11-28-2007, 04:57 PM
I smoke. It's nasty, I know it.......but I do it. Does this new potential employee have any existing health issues that have not been talked about which cigarette smoke may aggrevate? You should dig a little deeper into his history as far as health/past employment, any "issues" that may have arisen. If he just plain and simple doesn't like smoke, his point is valid as to not wanting to be in a stinky environment. The business decision then, is how can you place him on your team so he fits. If its a PIA from your standpoint, then he should head on down the road.

mastercraft
11-28-2007, 06:18 PM
I'd hand him a shovel and send him to the ditch, solves that problem. If he can tolerate the dust, oil, grease, and diesel, not to mention the exhaust, that all reek, he should certainly be able to tolerate a little stale residual smoke smell!

verant
11-28-2007, 06:24 PM
I'd hand him a shovel and send him to the ditch, solves that problem. If he can tolerate the dust, oil, grease, and diesel, not to mention the exhaust, that all reek, he should certainly be able to tolerate a little stale residual smoke smell!

smoke smell is worse fo sho

GradeMan
11-29-2007, 12:19 AM
Thats funny **** gravel rat, and you to mastercraft. I will find out more info on the situation

PROCUT1
11-29-2007, 12:47 AM
I sentence....."Deal with it or find another job"

With the economy and housing market, hes lucky he has a job.

tallrick
11-29-2007, 01:11 AM
I doubt that anyone can make an issue out of the stale tobacco smoke odor. As a nonsmoker I know how bad that smell is. When I brought home two pinspotters and bowling equipment to install at home I did not like to be in the same room because the smell was so distasteful. During the process of disassembly and moving I had many bouts of sneezing and coughing. I have an actual allergy to tobacco smoke. But during the times I was in the room I never suffered any adverse health effect from the smell. Believe it or not, some paints and drywall have more of an effect. I cannot figure out why a possible employee would want to work in a company where most other employees smoked.

YellowDogSVC
11-29-2007, 09:17 AM
NO smoking in the cabs. Not only does it stink, it leads to less productivity. I have seen too many 1 handed operators puffing away.

SiteSolutions
11-29-2007, 10:14 AM
NO smoking in the cabs. Not only does it stink, it leads to less productivity. I have seen too many 1 handed operators puffing away.

Yeah, that was the thing about the rowing sticks machines I had before... had to basically stop in order to light up or ash.

Now that I've got a new cab machine, tho, I won't smoke in the machine at all. I get out and stretch my legs every couple hours, have some water, and have a cigarette. Helps to look over what I'm working on from outside the cab, a diff perspective, refocus, see what needs to happen next...

Dirt Digger2
11-29-2007, 10:41 AM
NO smoking in the cabs. Not only does it stink, it leads to less productivity. I have seen too many 1 handed operators puffing away.

you got that right...we have a loader operator that smokes and my boss and i was standing at his truck watching him one day...he does about 15 minutes of work, stops the machine and gets out a cigarette, lights it and gets back to work...the whole process takes between 30 seconds and 1 minute and he smokes about a pack and a half a day....you can do the math on the annual yearly loss for this guy stopping like that every day...time is money

MarcSmith
11-29-2007, 12:30 PM
.you can do the math on the annual yearly loss for this guy stopping like that every day...time is money

assuming 20 minutes per 8 hour day...260 work days in a year...hes getting the equivalent of 86 hours of free time....thats two weeks paid vacation....andif you have more than one smoker, usually they like to light up together, and then they chitchat, one minute become 5 minutes.....and then the non smokers feel slighted since the smokers take all their cancer breaks...so then they jump in and start hanging out for a few minutes......It can be a huge drag( no pun intended) on your productivity....

Dirt Digger2
11-29-2007, 01:19 PM
assuming 20 minutes per 8 hour day...260 work days in a year...hes getting the equivalent of 86 hours of free time....thats two weeks paid vacation....andif you have more than one smoker, usually they like to light up together, and then they chitchat, one minute become 5 minutes.....and then the non smokers feel slighted since the smokers take all their cancer breaks...so then they jump in and start hanging out for a few minutes......It can be a huge drag( no pun intended) on your productivity....

ha..funny enough..he is the only smoker there, we had another guy that went cold turkey this past summer and no longer does it (good for him)...but quite honestly the only time it really bugs me is when we are working on a machine in the shop...if we are under the truck or under the hood and he lights up, that bugs me

S.I.
11-29-2007, 01:59 PM
A half cab with open windows is going to have the diesel smell so strong I don't know how he would be able to determine between the two. Give the guy a can of air fresner, tell him to suck it up and drive on, or pound sand. Sounds like a whiny little b!^@h to me.

Scag48
11-29-2007, 03:51 PM
Some people are allergic to cigarette smoke, not sure if you guys are aware of that or not. Sounds like this guy is a bit of whiner, he may be allergic, but I highly doubt it.

MarcSmith
11-29-2007, 06:58 PM
something tells me if you are alergic to cig smoke, you probaly should be working in the landscape industry, lots of worse stuff than stale cig smoke. I will say. I hate it. Id rather spill some lube oil, gasoline and deisel fuel on my clothes and smell that all day rather than stale cig smoke.

tthomass
11-29-2007, 09:23 PM
No smoking in any of my trucks or equip. My current main guy smokes but he can quit anytime. Its more of a doing it to do it habit that he's just never really kicked. I'm thinking about making all jobsites.........EVERYTHING AND EVERYWHERE.............non smoking, NOT allowed. I am allergic also.

Personally, being on a job site with smoker I do not like. I think it looks unprofessional as well. Honestly, when working outsite, just the smoke blowing in my direction annoys the h*ll out me and almost makes me want to gag.

*Another thought I just had. Smokers........like to take smoke breaks. Not all, but the majority I see will stop what they are doing and smoke - OR - they can't do two things at once and slows them down.

So yeah, I'm considering heavily NO SMOKING allowed in any way, shape or form.

RockSet N' Grade
11-29-2007, 10:17 PM
This smoking thing is, for me, a tough personal battle. I don't let it slow me down - no smoke breaks for this kid and nothing irritates me more than seeing cig butts on the ground. Butts on the job site or anywhere for that matter just frys me. Every cig I smoke, I put the finished trash in my pocket or trash can and spend my own time policing the area to make sure none have slipped away. I am that way about any kind of trash on a job site.......it's not tolerated. I try to be overly cautious about lighting up around those who don't smoke. One of my goals is to kick it......start date is around the first week of this coming February.........

SiteSolutions
11-29-2007, 10:41 PM
This smoking thing is, for me, a tough personal battle. I don't let it slow me down - no smoke breaks for this kid and nothing irritates me more than seeing cig butts on the ground. Butts on the job site or anywhere for that matter just frys me. Every cig I smoke, I put the finished trash in my pocket or trash can and spend my own time policing the area to make sure none have slipped away. I am that way about any kind of trash on a job site.......it's not tolerated. I try to be overly cautious about lighting up around those who don't smoke. One of my goals is to kick it......start date is around the first week of this coming February.........

Once I am in the loader, I almost have to force myself to take a break.

Also, I smoke non-filters, so everything burns to ash or melts in the rain. When I have to get filters because a store is out of good cigarettes, I just pull the filter off ahead of time and put it in my pocket. I don't usually smoke around customers unless they're smoking. Down here, a lot of folks do. A friend from Reno told me, when she was living here awhile, it must be the humidity?

GradeMan
12-02-2007, 07:43 PM
I Would love to stop aswell but You sit in the machine do that long task and you just break, I could never live in vegas.

cantoo
12-03-2007, 06:16 PM
Some good advice but very little good for you Grademan. Check your local laws. Here in Ontario we have very strict laws about smoking. Even down to smoking distances from opening doors and windows on buildings. No smoking in work vehicles, even your own when used for business purposes. I was Plant Manager when the new laws came into effect here "Smoking Cops " explained the new rules to me. I was legally responsible to make sure no one smoked in the building or within 20' of exterior doors. $500 fine for me. I don't smoke and there was no way I was paying a fine so I wrote alot of warnings and kept records of every one. The pain in the azz for me was the non smokers would call the "smoking cops" every couple of days just to raise crap.
Check your local laws and do what you have to do. Oh yeah, firing ain't an option but if you do make sure you have documentation cause if he screams it was because of the smoking complaints you are looking into some court costs to prove otherwise.

verant
12-03-2007, 09:37 PM
well, MN is now smoke free in all public establishments as of Oct 1. it's so nice to not smell smoke in restuarants

Scag48
12-04-2007, 03:36 AM
That's how Washington is, too. No smoking in public establishments and you have to be at least 25 feet from the door if you go out of a smoke break. People were super ruffled up about it when the law went into action, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal anymore.

MarcSmith
12-04-2007, 07:40 AM
here in DC and MD in a few counties went smoke free. restaurants and bars were crazy mad....cl;aiming it would hurt business, and i think after it settled down, there was less than 5% drop in sales....but that drop was also found in other stores, and malls where smoking is not an issue. so it appeared to be more of an economic down turn, not the smoking ban...

SiteSolutions
12-04-2007, 09:18 AM
well, MN is now smoke free in all public establishments as of Oct 1. it's so nice to not smell smoke in restuarants

That's great, comrade!

Are those restaurants publicly owned property? Your state owns and operates eating establishments? Well, then those aren't public establishments! They are owned by individuals. And those individuals should have a right to decide whether they want smoke, and let the free market decide if it's a good idea.

AWJ Services
12-04-2007, 09:55 AM
well, MN is now smoke free in all public establishments as of Oct 1. it's so nice to not smell smoke in restuarants

Ga has been for several years.
I can finally eat at a Waffle House.:clapping:

MarcSmith
12-04-2007, 10:17 AM
I can finally eat at a Waffle House.:clapping:so now you'll die of cholesterol...:)

I am not for the gov taking rights away, but....in most cases it was put on a ballot and the public voted for asked for the laws....the only thing that would be hurt if smoking was outlawed is the employees of the cig makers would be out of the job....which would hurt local economies in the mid east USA...

AWJ Services
12-04-2007, 10:58 AM
so now you'll die of cholesterol

In check here.

Smoking to me in public places is no different than a guy haveing a boom box blasting music out.
Somone finds it offensive.Plus second hand smoke is harmful.


Are those restaurants publicly owned property? Your state owns and operates eating establishments? Well, then those aren't public establishments! They are owned by individuals. And those individuals should have a right to decide whether they want smoke, and let the free market decide if it's a good idea.

So I guess we need to allow them to have the right to serve meat without usda inspections,no longer make them wash there hands after they go to the restroom and a plethora of other state mandated regulations that insure your safety and well being?

Grass Happens
12-04-2007, 12:29 PM
So I guess we need to allow them to have the right to serve meat without usda inspections,no longer make them wash there hands after they go to the restroom and a plethora of other state mandated regulations that insure your safety and well being?
I agree. IL goes smoke free Jan 1 and i cant wait. It'll be nice to able to go to the bars and not come home smelling like i just smoked a carton. I grew up with both parents smoking, and i cant stand eating food, relaxing, etc with that smell. Even worse is when its 80+ degrees out, I'm sweating my ace off, and my co-worker lights one up. Like its not hard enough to breath the humid Midwest air to begin with, lets add some heavy cancer to the mix. I'm all for personal rights, but when your rights can cause me detriment, they need to be examined and put into perspective.

verant
12-04-2007, 02:11 PM
That's great, comrade!

Are those restaurants publicly owned property? Your state owns and operates eating establishments? Well, then those aren't public establishments! They are owned by individuals. And those individuals should have a right to decide whether they want smoke, and let the free market decide if it's a good idea.

don't worry about the technicalities. my point is is that places like restuarants are all smoke free now. which has been very nice, soon all states will be like that hopefully.:waving:

SiteSolutions
12-04-2007, 03:13 PM
We've already seen what more government looks like in other nations. We've seen how well it works. Do we really need to live it ourselves? Once you get more and more government, the only way back to less government is to start over. And that wastes a lot of time and energy.

Not that I mind non-smoking restaurants. We have them all over Huntsville. But it should be the people who decide, on as close to a case-by-case basis as possible. A free market not only allows this, it encourages it.

Now I am paying someone to make sure restaurants are smoke free. I pay more and more people for stuff I don't want. That's not liberty.

MarcSmith
12-04-2007, 03:32 PM
benefits of being smoke free- cheaper insurance(health and property), cheaper to keep the place clean, cheaper to maintain(it less painting and carpet repair/replacement). Employee's are healthier which means less sick time.

I guess we could always go back to no airbags, no seat belts, no crush zones on cars, get rid of traffic lights, who need building code inspectors.... Really who needs the police we can trust everyone to be good boys and girls and not rape murder or steal from others....

SiteSolutions
12-04-2007, 03:52 PM
Spoken like someone from DC.

MarcSmith
12-04-2007, 04:10 PM
Spoken like someone from DC.tell me I'm wrong.... we all btch and complain about government, but when goverment does protect us (take the lead in toys as a recent example) they did not do enough. you can't have it both ways. no government control, and then complain when they don't protect you form the big bad evil empires out there whetehr it be walmart, microsoft, or some low baller cutting grass down the street for free....

RockSet N' Grade
12-04-2007, 04:44 PM
Like I have stated, I smoke. I enjoy no smoking in restaurants. I enjoy no smoking in alot of public places........I am all for it. I ask my guys if my smoking bothers them, and if they say yes.......I curtail my habit and smoke elsewhere away from them. It's a shame to me that more personal responsibility is not taken by individuals. I prefer less Big Brother intervention, red tape and white noise on this particular issue.......but then again, maybe it is needed.......I don't know the answer. From someone who comes from the meth production capital of the United States ( Utah), I think there are bigger issues at hand that far surpass me takin' a drag off a ciggy.

SiteSolutions
12-04-2007, 08:19 PM
tell me I'm wrong.... we all btch and complain about government, but when goverment does protect us (take the lead in toys as a recent example) they did not do enough. you can't have it both ways. no government control, and then complain when they don't protect you form the big bad evil empires out there whetehr it be walmart, microsoft, or some low baller cutting grass down the street for free....

Well put, you can't have it both ways. As for me, I would rather have more liberty and less government. The more we expect "government" to look out for us, instead of learning to look out for ourselves, the more dependent and helpless we become as a people. We regress to babies, sucking on uncle sam's teet. We also begin to have a sense that government determines morality; that is, if there isn't a rule against it, (or we can bend and interpret the rules to allow it,) then we should do it. This explains the thought process of many at the top of major corporations. They do evil things and make big bucks at the expense of others, because "government" is used as the benchmark for decent behavior...

I, for one, do not believe "government" should protect us from much other than foreign armies. Low ballers, Microsoft, Wal-mart... if people weren't relying on "government" to tell them right from wrong, they could make good decisions for themselves.

But that's just one way to look at it of course.:)

MarcSmith
12-05-2007, 07:51 AM
no matter how you look at it, government is important, and its more than just protecting us from others our ourselves.

Think about how much money the gov make on ciggy's do you really think they want to limit their income? They are putting these laws and restrictions on us because we have asked for it....

SiteSolutions
12-05-2007, 08:55 PM
no matter how you look at it, government is important, and its more than just protecting us from others our ourselves.

Think about how much money the gov make on ciggy's do you really think they want to limit their income? They are putting these laws and restrictions on us because we have asked for it....

I reckon I've shot my mouth off enough on this. As long as the smoke cops stay the heck out of my garage, I'll live.

MarcSmith
12-06-2007, 05:44 AM
I'll live.at least until the emphysema and lung cancer gets you....saw my two grand dads go that way....yeah they lived into their 70's and 80's but on a scooter dragging an oxygen tank and walking a round the house with the O2 generator and a hose in your nose seemed like a real quality life...

GradeMan
12-06-2007, 09:18 AM
Down With The Smokes Cops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JDSKIDSTEER
12-06-2007, 07:37 PM
I reckon I've shot my mouth off enough on this. As long as the smoke cops stay the heck out of my garage, I'll live.I am a double not smoking spy, and I been watching out for you when I go by your house.. I got my eye on you.

;)

Breezmister
12-09-2007, 12:06 PM
I smoke aswell but how much could a excavator\ dozer stink when you have half the cabs windows\ doors opened? I thought this would be a good discussion, Any ideas?

Put one of those air fresheners in the cab, they make all kinds of different "flavors" now :rolleyes: Wish they made one that smelled like chocolate :laugh:

MarcSmith
12-10-2007, 07:53 AM
Put one of those air fresheners in the cab, they make all kinds of different "flavors" now :rolleyes: Wish they made one that smelled like chocolate :laugh:

http://www.wagglepop.com/bin/auction/view?cmd=view&listingID=507985


yeah that be great. so i could have even more craving for one of the best foods in the world...and weigh even more....