23hp Kohler vs. 25hp Kohler

[Likestomow]

Talked to my Toro dealer yesterday about buying a new Z-Master. <br>The 23 Kohler model is about $1000 less than the 25 Kohler model.<p>Torque is supposed to be close between the two motors, <br>I think within 4 ft. pounds under load.<p>The water-cooled 22 Kaw is $1000 higher than the 23, but it's supposed<br>to be rated for 5,000 hours - I don't think it's worth the extra dough.<p>Does anyone have any field experience using the 23 Kohler? Is it a good engine?<br>

[Lazer]

I can't believe I'm even posting this, but...<p>The 23hp Toro Z-253 62&quot; are so cheap, I think that the direction we're going to go this year.<p>

[lawrence stone]

I think you would be better served with the<br>Toro 253 (exmark with a toro deck) for a<br>number of reasons.<p>1. Better mowing of wet turf.<br>2. 62&quot; vs. 60&quot; width<br>3. The KISS principal when it comes to the<br>deck height adjustment mech.<br>4. For the price of a $15 bracket a large<br>grass gobbler fits the discharge opening of<br>the 62&quot; Toro deck perfectly.<p>I mounted a 62&quot; Toro deck to my best traction<br>unit (1995 Kohler 18 hp V-twin) last Sunday.<p>The 62&quot; toro deck is a whole different animal when compared to the 44/52&quot; toro stamped decks. The 62 weighs in at over 100<br>lbs more than a 44/52&quot;.<p>The drive pulley on the center spindle looks<br>to be twice the size of a 52&quot; pulley. Underneath that massive drive pully is a little pulley that drives the rest of the spindles at awesome (for a Toro) speed.<p>Even with the engine up to operating temp.<br>the C.A.R.B. certified CV-18 could not start<br>the 62&quot; in deck in the run position of the<br>choke. I had to choke the engine half way<br>then engage the PTO. Once I go the deck up<br>to speed I was able to lean the engine out<br>into the run position.<p>If you look at Toros website the 62&quot; deck is<br>no longer available for a walk behind. The above &quot;problem&quot; might have lead to this but<br>I just think they want to sell more profitable ZTR's.<p><p><br>

[Lazer]

The pulley has to be bigger to reduce blade RPM and keep tip speed consistant w/ 52/44.<p>The 62&quot; deck for WB is probably unavailable also to poor sales - Toro walkers w/ 62 decks are front heavy and poorly balanced compared to other brands.<p>

[Evan528]

lazer, my z master has a blade tip speed of 18,400, about the same as the exmark. maybe its the older ones with the slow blade speed.

[Keith]

How much have guys seen the Toro 23hp selling for?

[Evan528]

i have seen the toro z master with a 62inch deck and a 23hp kohlor selling for about 7000. i have the 25hp on mine and would definitly recomend going will the biggest engine available for a ztr. a 23 just wont cut it for a 62inch cut.

[Lazer]

The new Toro's have increased blade tip speed.<p>A Toro Z-253 62&quot; 23hp can be purchased for less than $6,000.00.

[Keith]

That's a deal. If I needed another mower, I would probably consider it. Can they sell the 52&quot; mowers for that?<p>

[Lazer]

I'm sure they'd be even less. A 52&quot; 17hp is on a smaller, less costly frame.

[Keith]

They have a 52&quot; on a standard frame too, right?

[Lazer]

Yeah, I guess they do, but I would buy the &quot;HP&quot; if I wanted that deck size. Cheaper, smaller & lighter. 17hp Kaw will drive that machine & mower just fine.<br>IMO.

[Eric ELM]

Lazer, does this mean we will have to call you El Toro instead of Lazer? :)<p>----------<br>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.townserver.com/elm/&quot;&gt;Eric@ELM&lt;/a&gt;<br>

[Lazer]

Eric,<br>I dunno, I feel I've got my tail between my legs. Those Toro's are so doggone cheap! I'm teaming with some of my buddies to buy a dozen of them and get an unbelievable price. We're talking almost $3,000.00 difference. I'm loyal, but at some point, I've got to be a businessman.<p>Besides the back of the machine is an Exmark anyway, and Exmark did toy with the Toro deck, installed anti-scalp rollers where needed and increased blade tip speed.<p>BTW: Your site keeps getting better and better. Really looks impressive.<br>