View Full Version : Pay Up Or Else!!!!!!!!!!!
12-02-2007, 06:47 PM
What has anyone done for not receiving payment after they have finish a job?
4. Take it all back in front of everyone?
12-02-2007, 06:53 PM
How long after finishing the job are we talking about?
12-02-2007, 06:56 PM
Contractors have parked a piece of equipment in the driveway so the homeowner can't get in or out untill paid. Contractors have placed rocks accross the driveway or removed part of the driveway. With a small community word spreads fast a homeowner is a slow payer or a non payer they are pretty much screwed they can't find anybody to work for them.
Also with a smaller community the homeowner can't get away from seeing the contractor in the grocery store etc.
12-02-2007, 07:49 PM
Go down and post a Workman's lien on the property - plain and simple - then go to the courthouse and get a copy of the home mortgage - find out the name of the bank the home is financed with and the branch - then go to the exact branch of the bank that the home is mortgaged with and speak with the branch manager and make sure to involve the president of the bank as well. - Take my word you will get ya molah - might take a little time but thats ok - they have to pay legal interest until the lien is satisfied.. - Yes I found out the hard way - But I am a quick learner..
Also for those out there that are prone to rash and voilent actions - just remember - when you take out a piece of someones driveway, or block access to a homestead - that is a felony - Yea I found out the hard way bout that too!! (Crunched a few select things with a 3YD bucket on a BIG excavator....) Take the right legal measures that I listed above and you will be ok...
12-02-2007, 08:24 PM
Out here, we have that problem with a lot of "select people", not to be a racist, but a lot of these "select people" are the local berry farmers. We submit a price, either in contract or estimate and when they don't pay we have to resort to putting lawyers on it and they pay up. Last job I was involved on was with over $500,000 worth of gravel and the bugger couldn't pay it, so a lien was put on it and he coughed it up-eventually.
Other tatics we will resort to are not submitting site plans to City Hall until payments are made or with the contracts, absolute documentation and good pictures (that's why I take so many pics now!)
The last resort we have had to take (only once, I swear) is going to one of the more prominent berry producers (that we have made friends with over the years) and give them the run down, they will talk to the cheap prick in their own language and get us the money.
But always with the more stubborn "other" people it just takes some good kind words and reassurance that we aren't here to rip them off and take their money and run, we are one of the hand full of "good companies" still around.
But it never hurts to carry a baseball bat in the back of the truck, I carry a nice shiny aluminum bat that I've nick named "Slim Sally".
RockSet N' Grade
12-02-2007, 09:14 PM
GMungier has the process down. Each state has its own process. Our lien process has been recently revamped: you file a pre-lien electronically to preserve your lien rights and then if necessary during a prescribed period of time, you file your lien. I was doing contracting in a big city back in the 80's and we did it a bit more "western" then, what we did then to collect our due will certainly land you behind bars with heavy financial penalty today. Every job (even time and material) should have a written agreement. Make sure you get progress payments so that at the end of the ditty, there is not much left on the table........a small bill at the end is easier for a homeowner to swallow vs. a large one. Commercial work is a different animal. Threats, acts of violence or damage to work already done or in process or even removing materials already delievered to the job can complicate your life dramatically. I personally don't like stripes, regulated meal/exercise time and don't want to spend time in the gray bar hotel........Learn your lien laws and rights......find a great ( not just good ) attorney and put them on retainer. The good old days of western justice just don't cut it anymore........but then again, I am getting older and find a lien and letter from my attorney seem to work just dandy and save me from having to exert useless physical energy.
12-02-2007, 10:04 PM
Sunup works best,but high noon ,might also work.
Get around early morning just as the sun is coming up.Unload the dozer and head for the house with the sun shining off the blade held high.
Have sign on blade "Saying please have check ready by time i get to the house!!!!!! ":) Have serious thought about this a time or two! Then common sense kicked in.
Went the lein method,took a couple years ,but owner sold the farm and the lein was paid before he could close on the sale.It does take time tho,just won't happen over night that is for sure.Good luck.:usflag:
12-02-2007, 11:47 PM
I just had to place a lein on a property not to long ago. I hauled 75 yards of debris off a property and did about 4 hours of machine work, and only ONLY charged him $1100 for everything. Before we started he understood that the minimum was going to be around $1200 and he agreed. After he actually told me to go F myself!... Yeah well, its a "flip" house and it isnt going anywhere without me getting paid. I placed the lein for $1300 also, the original quote plus $100 for being a PITA and for time in placing the lein. Bastid....
12-03-2007, 01:22 AM
I know what those people are like BR is talking about :laugh:
RockSet N' Grade
12-03-2007, 07:03 AM
Another option along with filing a lien is to also file a small claims court action. Small claims forms are easy to fill out, include the cost of service and filing in your claim. Lots of camera pictures, any documentation with dates and times, trucking tickets.........get together all the paper work you can to back up your claim. That also is a motivator to get paid. Keep notes on conversations with times and dates. Adding money for being a PITA after the fact is illegal and may invalidate your credibility and may invalidate your lien and lien rights, plus there could be negative financial consequences.........Kepple, maybe it is time for Judge Judy?
12-03-2007, 08:45 AM
we put liens on peoples houses...we have liened a house over a $300 bill before, usually just the threat gets them to pay
12-03-2007, 02:37 PM
liens for small amounts are pointless. If the person wants to sell the house they can pay you to square up, or they can have that amount put into escrow account still sell the house. The amount they owe is secured in an escrow account, they got to sell the house and they will never sign to release the money to you. Blocking or physical threats will just get you in jail. I always do work in sections. 25 per to book a spot. 25 per when we show up to work. I have half before i do anything. 25 more when materials show. And 25 day of completion or when job is completed to be used for its intended use. THis way if someone says a walkway or retaining wall is off by 1/1000 of a "C" hair they still have to pay. I also what work they have had done on the property in the last few years and say oh Im thinking of having my house painted too. Who did you have do your work. They either say they are good or bad in any event i call that guy and ask about his experience w/ this new potential customer. One thing I have found to be true in 18 years if someone says " when you work for me your gonna get paid, or I pay my bills" thats the guy who will screw you every time.
12-03-2007, 05:43 PM
I think you hit it on the money humble, They are the ones that scare me also. I heard of that escrow account but it also seems pointless, Sometimes its better to break a leg than go broke on a job?
I hate that people give tha the screws only when its time to pay up.
12-08-2007, 12:26 AM
When i use to do alot like 600 lawns hydroseeded in one summer, I used to get paid before the tank got mixed. I would run into the "oh i will go get the check book and pay you when your done. My reply I need to get a check and give you a receipt before i can start. Then they might come back with well i want to see how it comes in. Im here to seed not water it after i am getting paid to hydroseed thats it. You wouldnt believe how many people i would walk from that i would have gotten screwed on. Id dump all the water right there at the end of their driveway so i didnt have to haul it back. It amazes me how you have to pay the guy at the sub shop before he even throws the steak on the grill, but for some reason people dont want to pay us when the job is done. I hate people
12-08-2007, 02:00 AM
I've found out a few things...
It's all fine and dandy until you run into a batch of folks who get off on not paying, they literally make a living ripping off companies... About the only saving grace here is that it's not personal, but you will not get paid.
They don't care, they got it down to a system, they even know the lingo, these folks have practiced the art over and over.
- Liens don't work with renters, I don't even think one can be levied.
> Payment upfront, all of them (except existing customers).
- Pre-screen!!! I tell you, over the years I sure learned to read between the lines, I dare say 98% of customers are no good for this business but one thing is for sure: Do NOT work for a pita when you see it coming, and if you do, INSIST on getting paid upfront.
READ between the lines.
- Taking someone to court is such a BIG time investment that I'm literally better off forgetting about it, and there are no guarantees.
I am finding, the better the condition of the lawn AND the more concerned the customer is about that, the better the chances of getting paid, roughly. If they care, it makes a difference. Of course that is an oxymoron as well, usually customers who are that concerned either do it themselves or are super picky.
Still, if I'm to get stiffed I would rather have it from first a homeowner, second from someone with a decent lawn.
Renters are too difficult to chase, and little burns worse than doing real dirty work and then not getting paid.
Of course it's not much better to get stiffed by rich folks who think they're better than us, but those folks are more concerned with their credit records than the average.
- Put it on their credit record, is what I do, collection agency.
> About 20% eventually do pay.
- Another tactic is to drive past from time to time, IF I see another contractor of any kind pulled up, I stop to say HI!
(And let them know I never got paid, preferably in front of the customer.)
Interestingly enough, although the tactic can and will land you in the slammer, and much like another Lco I am allergic to that place, I did find that only 1 out of a 1000 still refuse to pay when grabbed by the throat. Compare that to the usual 1-to-10%...
That I find amazing.
12-08-2007, 09:50 AM
When I was younger i once called a customer who owed me $300 I told him he better pay w/ in 10 days or else ill take some action against him. I drove by his house 10 days later, funny as I was driving by I noticed someone had thrown about 10 pounds of roofing nails down his long drivway. I wonder who would have done that. Funny thing was I got my check with a little less and a note, less tire plug I paid for leak in tire. So I got most of money out of him.
12-08-2007, 02:51 PM
Showing up IN the laneway in the morning or around dinner time has always worked for me as long as you show up dirty and looking like you've got billing on your mind. Be friendly and remind them about the outstanding balance. 'Friendly' can go a long way if you play it properly, if you know what I mean.
12-08-2007, 06:06 PM
I know what those people are like BR is talking about :laugh:
Canadians? :usflag: :)
12-08-2007, 06:48 PM
Much, much worse my friend, I'd rather deal with some arrogant Americans than the people GR and myself refer too!
12-08-2007, 11:19 PM
:laugh::laugh:Much, much worse my friend, I'd rather deal with some arrogant Americans than the people GR and myself refer too!
LOL. before I start an international incident, I'll *trucewhiteflag*
12-09-2007, 01:04 AM
The people Ron and I are talking about can be very rude and shrewd. Not to really go any further but they have really made a mess of the trucking industry Canada wide. Also they are in the construction and excavating industries too. Not all of them are bad but :confused:
12-09-2007, 12:18 PM
I still have to keep "slim Sally" behind my seat when dealing with some of them.
12-09-2007, 04:58 PM
I hate dealing with the foriegners. This summer I ran into one fresh off the boat. He came here to buy reestate. One of the house he bought needed draintile, He asked how much an hour for a 20 ton hoe, I told him 90hr, The look he gave me look like he just found out I was just cheating on his wife. " Who was damm smoking hot" He told me they go for 35hr were he comes from. I told him thats almost what I have to pay for an operator here, I thought he **** his pants.
So after a couple days go by he calls and asked when I could start. We finished the job in couple of days and when it came to payment he thought he could avoid our contract and pay when the house sold. I had to take my little " slim sally" aka my work boot and threating his hide to get payed. Well it worked but what a hard 6grand to collect.
12-09-2007, 06:13 PM
90 bucks and hour for a 20 ton hoe, that's dirt cheap!!
We have to charge 110 p/hr to break even!
12-09-2007, 06:50 PM
A 200 sized hoe rate is about 118 per hour and a 160 size machine is 110 and tandem axle gravel truck rate is about 83 dollars per hour.
:canadaflag::canadaflag::canadaflag::canadaflag:sucks up in Canada buddy,when you break it to-2 DOLLARS an hour times are indeed tough,you should try rounding up ,but that would fracture you're fragile economy!!!!
12-09-2007, 07:59 PM
Our economy isn't as bad off as what you guys south of the boarder are in for :dizzy:
Reading in the business section of the Province newspaper that there is 1 million house forclosures happening in the states. Then other headlines like USA heading for recession. You guys down south better take off the blinders off and realize your country is in trouble economically wise.
Anyhow B.Cs economy is on a bumpy road too the provincial gov't is turning the province into the rich and poor. There is no middle class any more. Its either you have lots of money or you don't. The gov't is allowing multi million dollar developements be built. The prices of houses are at prices that only the rich can afford. Places like Vancouver where the cheapest house is 500,000 for a dumpy old house in a poor neighbourhood. It is the same in my area now the house prices are so high you need a monthly income of 4 grand minimum. A annual salary of 30 grand like I make is poverty level :cry:
It is at the point in B.C. minimum wage should be set at 20 bucks per hour to make up for the cost of living.
12-10-2007, 01:58 PM
, I told him 90hr, The look he gave me look like he just found out I was just cheating on his wife. " Who was damm smoking hot" He told me they go for 35hr were he comes from. It.
Is that $35/hr for the smoking hot wife rental or the other hoe? :laugh:
12-10-2007, 02:08 PM
12-10-2007, 02:36 PM
I can think of a few ways you can pay, but my favourite's definitely a check!
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