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Mike M
12-07-2007, 08:41 PM
Why isn't there a PAR the size of an MR 16, or at least halfway? Or is there something like that? It would create cheaper housings, eliminate socket problems, and offer tightly focussed beams. Or am I wrong? What the heck do I know.

pete scalia
12-07-2007, 08:52 PM
Why isn't there a PAR the size of an MR 16, or at least halfway? Or is there something like that? It would create cheaper housings, eliminate socket problems, and offer tightly focussed beams. Or am I wrong? What the heck do I know.

Didn't you see my post about a month or so ago where I was looking for a PAR 30 12volt bulb to be made

irrig8r
12-07-2007, 09:05 PM
Why would lamp manufacturers want to go that route? Didn't you get the memo? Incandescents are on their way out. LEDs are the wave of the future.

pete scalia
12-07-2007, 09:07 PM
Why would lamp manufacturers want to go that route? Didn't you get the memo? Incandescents are on their way out. LEDs are the wave of the future.

You are being premature. That is yet to be seen.

irrig8r
12-07-2007, 09:10 PM
Sorry Pete, I was being sarcastic. I thought you'd get it.

pete scalia
12-07-2007, 09:34 PM
Sorry Pete, I was being sarcastic. I thought you'd get it.


Oh, I'm a bit slow I guess.

Chris J
12-07-2007, 11:43 PM
Why isn't there a PAR the size of an MR 16, or at least halfway? Or is there something like that? It would create cheaper housings, eliminate socket problems, and offer tightly focussed beams. Or am I wrong? What the heck do I know.

PAR= Parabolic Anodized Reflector MR= Mirrored Reflector
We shall split the difference in the wattage and call the new bulb "Para-ana-mirror 26"

pete scalia
12-08-2007, 12:01 AM
PAR= Parabolic Anodized Reflector MR= Mirrored Reflector
We shall split the difference in the wattage and call the new bulb "Para-ana-mirror 26"

Excellent idea Mr. Johnson. You are really sharp tonight sir.

Chris J
12-08-2007, 12:06 AM
Thank you Mr. Pete. I shall accept my award when timing permits.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-10-2007, 11:38 AM
There are several PAR lamps available that are Smaller then PAR20. You can find PAR16 and PAR14 Lamps at better stores and through your electrical wholesaler. These are Line Voltage lamps of course.

As for MR series LV lamps, there are MR16, MR11 and MR8 available.

Pro-Scapes
12-10-2007, 11:56 AM
there are alternatives if you want incadesant smaller bulbs mike.... I have a SPJ wallwash at my house uplighting a sweet olive... very soft and dramatic. Not crazy about the fixture but love the effect. I think its 13w and im running it at a low 10v. Its the automotive style bulb that has a round base and you push it down and twist to lock it in. Been burning nightly for a year and a half.

Im sure nightscaping or someone else would customize a fixture to hold a lamp like this... fold has the light im talking about. It really does have a nice output to it and has had no water in the fixture to date despite being in the drip line.

Lite4
12-10-2007, 01:02 PM
Billy, there is a compact halogen style bulb with the same base. It gives a bit more pop than the standard automotive bulbs.

irrig8r
12-10-2007, 01:54 PM
Billy, there is a compact halogen style bulb with the same base. It gives a bit more pop than the standard automotive bulbs.

I've seen comapct halogen or xenon lamps with a DCB (AR-11 from FX), but most of the incandescents (93, 1141, 1156, etc.) only in an SCB.

Which base do you mean?

Pro-Scapes
12-10-2007, 06:21 PM
im pretty sure the ones i have are 1141's I use em to light my signs too

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-10-2007, 06:48 PM
This thread was about a "smaller par" lamp:

I just wanted to ensure that the info gets out there. There are PAR16 and PAR14 Lamps available, See the links below.

http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=product_bulb_info&products_id=13463

http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=product_bulb_info&cPath=3900_4246&products_id=8195

irrig8r
12-10-2007, 07:55 PM
But those are line voltage aren't they James?

Mike M
12-10-2007, 08:20 PM
Yeah, I was wondering about an LV PAR, with a smaller diameter.

pete scalia
12-10-2007, 10:35 PM
Trouble with all these exotic lamps is that most are made in China and the lamp life is less than acceptable. It's also a sourcing problem for those homeowners who like to change their own bulbs. When Nate first burst on the scene he said all you ever needed was 1 bulb for outdoor lighting. We all know what bulb that is. Although his proclamation was a bit radical he hit on the idea that keeping it simple was the way to go. Perhaps 4-5 different core bulbs / wattages/ beam spreads is all you'd ever need.

irrig8r
12-10-2007, 11:01 PM
While I tend to agree with you about sourcing lamps from companies with unknown track records, I've always held that the big selling point of MR-16's, besides their compact size, was the variety of wattages and beam spreads available.

pete scalia
12-11-2007, 01:13 AM
While I tend to agree with you about sourcing lamps from companies with unknown track records, I've always held that the big selling point of MR-16's, besides their compact size, was the variety of wattages and beam spreads available.

No disagreement there

JoeyD
12-11-2007, 11:20 AM
Trouble with all these exotic lamps is that most are made in China and the lamp life is less than acceptable. It's also a sourcing problem for those homeowners who like to change their own bulbs. When Nate first burst on the scene he said all you ever needed was 1 bulb for outdoor lighting. We all know what bulb that is. Although his proclamation was a bit radical he hit on the idea that keeping it simple was the way to go. Perhaps 4-5 different core bulbs / wattages/ beam spreads is all you'd ever need.


What does Nate know. He only does things to benefit him, I mean he manipulated the VD method to justify a 22v tap becuase there really was no need. NO ONE ever goes beyond 15v anyway. And this whole lamp thing, why would he promote the only lamp made for landscape lighting that comes in multiple wattages and beam speads.......LOL.......everyone knows how crappy that Par36 is. Yeah I am being sarcastic, I have a bit of fire in me today after attending the IA and seeing 3 more KNOCKOFF UNIQUE manufacturers there!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-11-2007, 02:54 PM
Yeah I am being sarcastic, I have a bit of fire in me
today after attending the IA and seeing 3 more KNOCKOFF UNIQUE manufacturers there!


Joey... just being friendly here ok?....

You have to get a handle on this knock off thing. It causes confusion in the marketplace and it slowly peels away the ability of your company to be Unique.

I know that imitation is the ultimate form of flattery and all, but how flattered can one be before they get tired of it and just want a line of products to call their own?

I remember when the Nightscaping Okeefe fixture "went public". Something about the manufacturer no longer being bound by an agreement to produce the components exclusively for Nightscaping. Not long after, Kichler, RAB and others had the exact same fixture body available to them, and they were selling that same light. It just looks bad in the marketplace.

From my point of view, as a custom design / build lighting systems guy, I want to know for certain that my clients will not be able to find fixtures that look identical showing up on the net, in the trunk of other "contractors" and ultimately installed at their neighbours at half the price.

I understand there are significant differences between the products you assemble and sell from the USA and the knock offs... but the optics are bad. Sort of like street vendors selling the Rolex watch... It cheapens the whole thing.

What is the chance that the factories you have producing Unique components by day, are in fact moonlighting and selling those exact same components to others? This happens all the time in many categories of manufacturing using offshore, contracted factories. Have you looked into this? What about forcing the manufacturers into exclusive contracts and then enforcing those? Or, are you 100% certain that the knock offs are coming from other factories who are copying the molds and components?

Have a better day...

JoeyD
12-11-2007, 03:08 PM
Fair question James,

We have patents so we are fighting these guys. We have a US patent on most of our lights we also now have mainland China patents which will be huge for us. Now it is up to our patent attorney's to one by one go after these companies. The problem is this, you could pick any fixture you like, lets take your "perfect" CAST downlight (messing with you). You could take that light to the right guy in China and say i want 500 of these bad boys. And in 1 week you will have a complete knockoff sample of that light. We cant stop this. So we have now started to recieve approvals for most of our patents some we have had for quite a while now, and now we have to let the legal process do what ever it does to stop these guys. What they do now is change the knuckle and then change the shroud, add a groove, bassicly change it enough that they are now not infringing on our patents.

So the fact that they are trying to mock our designs up and change them enough to look like us but not infringe legally is something we have to just deal with. I guess thats part of having something people want and like. Why they picked our stuff out I have no clue. Our factories are not the one's selling the lights bye the way. Our GM is in China frequently at our plants meeting withour chinese QC team and factory personell. We did have this problem in the past but our new private factory is not and will not do this. We have much more control.

What really makes me mad though is when they steal your product ideas and lthe look, then they steal one of your job photos with your design and your lights on it, put it on the cover of their catalog. YES THEY DID EVEN USE OUR JOB PHOTO ON THE COVER OF THEIR CATALOG! Then they name lights in their line Pulsar, Stellar, Apollo, Tritan, and so on and so forth. I am not kidding, we found a company who soon will be shut down that has literally tried to steal our identity. They have a bunch of no body's working for them who were oblivious to us, they know nothing about lighting, they are just selling a widget.

THAT IS WHAT PISSSES ME OFF. THEY NEED TO GET THERE OWN IDEAS AND THERE OWN CONCEPTS. We dont go around taking Kichler, or Vista's, or FX's product ideas, we want to be Unique but so does a whole new generation of ligthing companies apparently. The problem is we are doing the hard work for them and they just wait to see our new catalog and decide what else they will add to their line.

But thats life, there will always be bottom feeders.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-11-2007, 03:27 PM
That really rots Joey...

This is a prefect example of why we, as designers/installers should be happy! Isn't it nice knowing that our competition cannot directly copy our work? I suppose one contractor could try to completely copy the design and aesthetic of another, but really what would be the point?

Monet and Renoir were both impressionist painters, they might have even used the same supplies, but you cannot say they were in competition with each other or copied each other.

Have a great day.

Lite4
12-12-2007, 12:56 AM
Jeez Joey, talk about the black cloud over your head all day. I hope you guys can nail these other imposters. That would just be infuriating.