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Danish Cat technician
12-11-2007, 10:54 AM
Hello people.

I'm working on two 287B with PC210 coldplaners and the problem is that the standard engine aircleaner is not sufficient.
Now I need some really good ideas on how to place a secondary aircleaner (cyclon) outside the enginebay.
It must not be placed behind the emergency exit window in the rear. Thats the primary demand.

Hope that someone has a great idea.
Thanks in advance.

Michael Kristensen
Denmark

bobcat_ron
12-11-2007, 11:32 AM
Cut a hole into the rear engine cover, but this would need a very heavy guard to protect it. I know what you're talking about, alot of the Cat equipment should still use the cyclones, they are extremely efficient.

Scag48
12-11-2007, 01:01 PM
I hear that, the standard air cleaners are not worth their salt, not even close. I wish Cat would address this issue.

Danish Cat technician
12-11-2007, 01:13 PM
It's a big problem especially when using the coldplaners. The standard filter clogs up in no time.

The cyclone can't just be placed on the back of engine cover, because they have to be able to back right up to that. And it should be mounted higher, but where???

Danish Cat technician
12-12-2007, 01:18 PM
Any ideas from anyone???????:confused:

ksss
12-12-2007, 08:58 PM
You might look at putting a water attachment on the planer similiar to the system used on brooms. Also not that is likely to be an option but Contec's planer is much cleaner than most others on the market. They don't rehash the material creating all the dust.

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 12:08 PM
UPDATE: Solution found.

I have just finished fitting a cyclonoe filter on the Cat 287B skidsteer.
I think the result came out quite well, but now its up to you guys, the hard and "cruel" judges or just everyday users of this kind of equipment. Tell me what you think :)

http://peecee.dk/uploads/022008/DSC01316.JPG
http://peecee.dk/uploads/022008/DSC01318.JPG
http://peecee.dk/uploads/022008/DSC01324.JPG
http://peecee.dk/uploads/022008/DSC01325.JPG

bobcat_ron
02-04-2008, 12:23 PM
Looks darn good, a bit much like a submarine snorkel.

Could it be mounted right behind the window, or is it going to block the visibility?

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 01:04 PM
Thank you Ron.

It could be mounted right behind the window except for the fact that the rear window is an emergency exit, and must not be blocked.
Their radio is placed in the rearwindow frame, so they use it anyway, but as a dealer we have to uphold the law.

It would also block visibility, but how often do you actually look out of it?

Other input/thoughts?

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 01:41 PM
Ohh I forgot. If you place it right behind the rear window, how are you going to raise the cab if needed???

With this you can actually raise the cab without removing any of the parts.

bobcat_ron
02-04-2008, 02:18 PM
Get those pics over to HeavyEquipmentForums ASAP, there might be some there interested in those pics too.

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 02:49 PM
What do you mean Ron??
This is the Heavy Equipment & Pavement forum.

bobcat_ron
02-04-2008, 03:03 PM
www.heavyequipmentforums.com -->that's the place, aka HEF.

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 03:04 PM
Ahh now I get it :)

It will be posted there shortly!

BIGBEN2004
02-04-2008, 03:08 PM
It looks factory installed to me. You need to send some pictures to Cat for special applications like that one is in all the time. It would be good in heavy dust applications like land clearing or in a shed moving hay bales around all the time or in saw dust areas. You did a great job.

Construct'O
02-04-2008, 03:09 PM
Looks good to go!Glad to see you have worked hard fixing the problem.

I'll give you 6 points for fixing the problem and 4 points to KSSS for the water suggestion.Which looks like you have installed.

A person might not want to forget that it is there when they go in under something low,might want to put a sign in the cab for them to read.

Caution check for clearences before moving machine!!!!! Good job and good luck:usflag:

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 03:10 PM
Thank you :)

Its still a "prototype" so there might be a few changes along the way.
The hose fitting is quite tight in the engine compartment.

One of our productspecialist is supposed to have sent it to his Caterpillar contact, but I dont know if he has done that.

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 03:13 PM
Looks good to go!Glad to see you have worked hard fixing the problem.

I'll give you 6 points for fixing the problem and 4 points to KSSS for the water suggestion.Which looks like you have installed.

A person might not want to forget that it is there when they go in under something low,might want to put a sign in the cab for them to read.

Caution check for clearences before moving machine!!!!! Good job and good luck:usflag:


Thank you for the points. :)

The waterspray system has been on the machine since delivery, so nothing new in that. It's an original Caterpillar bolt on kit.

They are aware of the height issue, but it is transported on a low truck, so no worries. But good point.

Danish Cat technician
02-04-2008, 03:34 PM
www.heavyequipmentforums.com -->that's the place, aka HEF.

bobcat_Ron>> Hmm that is a weird foum. I have to reply to 3 posts before I can create a new post.

Perhaps you could create the post, and then I could just add the pictures?

bobcat_ron
02-04-2008, 06:12 PM
Just pick any thread to reply to and keep hitting the "submit" button every 90 seconds, that's what I did until that stupid system was removed from my registration.

Scag48
02-04-2008, 07:17 PM
Very nice work indeed, I would like to see this passed on to Cat engineers and make it an option for those of us working in severe dust conditions. If I didn't have to clean the primary filter of our 277B at least 5 times in a day, it was a good day. :laugh:

CarterKraft
02-04-2008, 10:38 PM
Nice work Dutch..

Two things though, we have been putting cyclones in the rear crossmember for along time with some customers that had to exit during brush fires. There hasn't been a problem more than what little bit the window is blocked in your install.

There is an alternate filter assy, that CAT won't warrant against dusting, but works extremly well and uses CAT filters. It's made by Enginaire and is really cost effective. I tried to put a pic below. It's a C-Series but you get the idea.

ksss
02-04-2008, 10:58 PM
During the Summer I was replacing or pounding out filters every coupler hours in some conditions. The 440 that I ordered I got with an aspirator. What a difference. I replace the filter once a year now. More than paid for itself. It uses exhuast gas to pull dirt from the filter.

CarterKraft
02-04-2008, 11:34 PM
Sorry about the Dutch comment, it should of read Danish, though thats what I get for trying to do this stuff when American Gladiators is on. LOL

Danish Cat technician
02-05-2008, 01:38 PM
Nice work Dutch..

Two things though, we have been putting cyclones in the rear crossmember for along time with some customers that had to exit during brush fires. There hasn't been a problem more than what little bit the window is blocked in your install.

There is an alternate filter assy, that CAT won't warrant against dusting, but works extremly well and uses CAT filters. It's made by Enginaire and is really cost effective. I tried to put a pic below. It's a C-Series but you get the idea.

Hmmm I will let you slide on that Dutch comment ;) I am never going to be dutch.. hehe

Thanks for the comments and other suggestions. Perhaps I will show some of them to my superiors so that they perhaps get the idea :rolleyes:
I dont know if we are able to get a hold of the Enginaire filter assy, but its worth looking into.

If I could have had my way, I would just have made the pipe straight down, but as I said before: As a dealer we must uphold the law or the goverment might come after us incase of an accident.

Danish Cat technician
02-05-2008, 01:42 PM
Very nice work indeed, I would like to see this passed on to Cat engineers and make it an option for those of us working in severe dust conditions. If I didn't have to clean the primary filter of our 277B at least 5 times in a day, it was a good day. :laugh:

Is the 277B that you operate equiped with the same lifting arms as the 287B in the photos??

Otherwise I could take a look at what is needed to make it on your machine.

Scag48
02-05-2008, 04:12 PM
No, the 277B is radial lift and the 287B is vertical lift. There is less going on with the 277B's linkage than the 287B, so you made this system work on the most complicated machine. We no longer have the 277B, but if we did I'd definately be upfitting it with your design.

Danish Cat technician
02-05-2008, 04:21 PM
No, the 277B is radial lift and the 287B is vertical lift. There is less going on with the 277B's linkage than the 287B, so you made this system work on the most complicated machine. We no longer have the 277B, but if we did I'd definately be upfitting it with your design.

Ahh I thought so.. I just could not remember the right description for it.

How come you dont have the 277 anymore?

Scag48
02-05-2008, 05:32 PM
My dad decided it was too much machine for him for landscaping. We bought it for our excavation division and when I left for college he sold our 312CL and the 277B. I used both machines daily on homesite and utilities excavation, but after I left the 277 and 312 were too much machine to use for the landscaping division. The 277 was an awesome machine, perfect for the work I was doing in soft, sandy soils working on slopes requiring as much traction as possible.

bobcat_ron
02-05-2008, 05:59 PM
I liked the old 267 & 277, they were just 2 big tracks with loaders on top, especially the 277.

Danish Cat technician
02-06-2008, 10:22 AM
Scag48>> Ahhh okay. What are you studying??

Scag48
02-06-2008, 11:23 AM
Business administration, but I'll be done after this quarter for the most part. I'll have 10 or 15 credits to finish up online or at night classes. I'm headed into an apprenticeship with the local union that will teach me more of what I need to know than college ever will.

You're right Ron, the 277 to me is still one badass machine. Radial lift, no BS, just a huge set of undercarriage that floats over anything. I put ours in some nasty spots and was able to get out. Back home, the terrain is pretty steep and sandy. I always seemed to find my way onto sites that wouldn't give a 120 with steel tracks any problems, but a skid steer wouldn't have made it out of the places I was taking that 277. And since it was a fairly sandy environment, rock gouging really wasn't an issue, the 277 for what I was doing was a perfect machine, I highly doubt there's any other MTL/CTL that would have served me worlds better. And since it was Cat, we were able to take only a small loss on the machine when we sold it and if it would have been any other machine, I guarantee we would have sat on it for a long time. A guy about 35 miles from us bought it, he does hydroseeding and has quite a few Cat MTLs.

Danish Cat technician
02-06-2008, 11:42 AM
Sound exciting.

We have seen a few problems with the track idlers on the 277's, but Cat made a product improvement program for it and covered some of the cost, if not the entire thing. Now it seems to be working great.
Thats the worst problem we have had with them.

bobcat_ron
02-06-2008, 01:11 PM
I looked in the engine compartment on my 247, can you post some pics how you made the transition from the airl cleaner housing to the snorkel?

Mine would be really tight.

Danish Cat technician
02-06-2008, 02:11 PM
There is very very little room in the 287 but it can juusstt fit in there.
Look at the pictures below.

Could you perhaps post a picture of the cooler assembly from up top? I cant remember how it looks compared to the 287. On the 287 There is a gap in the frame between the machine frame and the cooler frame and that can be cut so the hose can go through there

Construct'O
02-06-2008, 04:58 PM
Say those words again real slow ! TightTTTTTTTT !

Not much room is right by looks of the pictures.;):usflag:

CarterKraft
02-06-2008, 07:43 PM
I can't remember off hand wich ones have the room and which ones don't. What we do is cut a hole in the flat stock cross member with a 4" carbide hole saw. then weld in a piece of 4" OD tubing. The precleaner is fastened diretly to the tube on top and 2 rubber 90*s are used to connect the inlet to the tube. You can also invert the filter canister 180* then you have a straighter shot you just have to watch the cooler lines etc. For some reason I don't have a pic of the precleaner mounted on the tube, but I can get one.

Construct'O
02-06-2008, 08:24 PM
I like how you turned the air cleaner where the pipe is coming out the top instead of the bottom,but might not be the case with the setup because of two different size machines.

Get another picture or two if possible?

Danish Cat technician
02-07-2008, 10:26 AM
I can't remember off hand wich ones have the room and which ones don't. What we do is cut a hole in the flat stock cross member with a 4" carbide hole saw. then weld in a piece of 4" OD tubing. The precleaner is fastened diretly to the tube on top and 2 rubber 90*s are used to connect the inlet to the tube. You can also invert the filter canister 180* then you have a straighter shot you just have to watch the cooler lines etc. For some reason I don't have a pic of the precleaner mounted on the tube, but I can get one.

That looks pretty good. That will definately be the alternative if our design fails in some way. I didnt know that the you could invert the airfilter and turn the tube. I thought the tube was fixed.
Are the 2 rubber 90's caterpillar tubing?? Just to know if we can take them from stock.

Nice work.

I have looked today and it seems that only the 277's and 287's has the "cutable" crossmember.
I have a couple of pictures of other solutions on other machines from other dealerships.

Danish Cat technician
02-07-2008, 01:59 PM
Carterkraft>> You say that you place the precleaner directly on the tube that you welded to the crossmember, but can you raise the cab without removing it first? And what about the fact that you block the emergency exit (rear window)?
I was told that I under no surcomestance was allowed to block the rear window very much.

I have gotten good inspiration from your pictures. Great work in the engine bay :)

CarterKraft
02-08-2008, 07:53 AM
Well yes and no. If you leave the cyclone on the on the tube and open it the full range of motion it will push the back window out. The solution is to make labels warning against such action "REMOVE PRE-ClEANER BEFORE RAISING CAB" and place them everywere. I usually put one each by each cab mounting bolt so that while you are looking at the bolts you see the stickers, then one by the key switch so that you see it everyday and maybe it gets ingrained.

It doesn't block the window very much at all, if any. We are a CAT dealer as well and believe me we wouldn't do it if it was unsafe. One thing to note is we are putting the cyclone right above the crossmember, approx a 1/2" which makes it not very tall when installed. I will get some pics.

Danish Cat technician
02-11-2008, 02:39 PM
I would really like to see a picture of it some day. I could be good inspiration. Could you also post a picture of a cyclone mounted in the enginebay of a 247 as you mentioned?

Have you tried mounting a cyclone on a C series yet? It doesnt look easy from what I can tell.

The 287B has just left the shop after just sitting there for 2weeks.
The operators thought it looked nice and would keep giving me feedback as they get it tested. Really nice guys :)

Danish Cat technician
02-11-2008, 02:53 PM
Ohh the cyclone mounting on the 247's was mentioned on heavyequipmentforums not here. :)

YellowDogSVC
02-11-2008, 03:28 PM
Nice work Dutch..

Two things though, we have been putting cyclones in the rear crossmember for along time with some customers that had to exit during brush fires. There hasn't been a problem more than what little bit the window is blocked in your install.
.

Are you saying the machine caught on fire? Is the cyclone or the upgrade air assembly safer than the stock assembly in relation to getting a hot ember sucked into the air cleaner and possibly starting a fire in the element?

CarterKraft
02-11-2008, 10:07 PM
Yes, machines do catch fire when cutting brush, all of them.

If you let one piece of Cedar fuzz sit on the turbo or manifold too long, boom fire. I am not aware of a fire on one of our machines that was caused by the machine.

Of those machines that caught fire I think a few of them one for sure had to exit out the back, and the operator I spoke to was shook up pretty good from the whole thing.

He didn't have a fire extinguisher inside and that is the first thing we did on his new machine. We put a 5lb on the rear package tray, behind the seat. so when you flip around to eject you can grab the extinguisher push the window out and start spraying if need be and climb out.

As to the less chance of fire with a cyclone, who knows, but if your air filter catches on fire does it really matter? JK

I haven't seen a cyclone on a c-series yet. we are putting the snorkels on the machines that don't come with them (90 hp).

I would love the chance to add one but since I am in Field Service now I don't get to do much of that fun stuff anymore.

I still think the Enginaire is the best choice all around, under 100$ and uses CAT/Donaldson filters.

YellowDogSVC
02-11-2008, 10:48 PM
Yes, machines do catch fire when cutting brush, all of them.

If you let one piece of Cedar fuzz sit on the turbo or manifold too long, boom fire. I am not aware of a fire on one of our machines that was caused by the machine.

Of those machines that caught fire I think a few of them one for sure had to exit out the back, and the operator I spoke to was shook up pretty good from the whole thing.

He didn't have a fire extinguisher inside and that is the first thing we did on his new machine. We put a 5lb on the rear package tray, behind the seat. so when you flip around to eject you can grab the extinguisher push the window out and start spraying if need be and climb out.

As to the less chance of fire with a cyclone, who knows, but if your air filter catches on fire does it really matter? JK

I haven't seen a cyclone on a c-series yet. we are putting the snorkels on the machines that don't come with them (90 hp).

I would love the chance to add one but since I am in Field Service now I don't get to do much of that fun stuff anymore.

I still think the Enginaire is the best choice all around, under 100$ and uses CAT/Donaldson filters.


Talked to Harry today. He had a lot of good things to say..

bobcat_ron
02-11-2008, 11:38 PM
Enginaire?!?!?

Mini man
02-12-2008, 07:27 AM
engineaire.com
Not sure how to size the filter for the machine.

CarterKraft
02-12-2008, 10:32 PM
I posted a picture some were of the engineair filter installed.

Sizing, the old 3044C that was in the B-series required a 194 CFM capacity air cleaner assembly. The new 3044C ATAC will probablly use a hair more due to the after cooling so call it 220 CFM.

Use http://www.enginaire.com/integrated.htm this lin to determine the size, both physical and flow required for your machine.

Danish Cat technician
04-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Update 2:

I have just heard from the 287 crew. They have just started the pavement season a couple of weeks ago, and they were more than pleased to say the least. The cyclone does its job perfectly. They can now run the machine for weeks without cleaning out the filter.
He also says that before, they could easily choke the engine when pushing it hard after just 1 day of cutting. Now they just cant choke it. :clapping:

They are talking about getting a similar setup on their other 287. :)

bobcat_ron
04-11-2008, 11:20 AM
Make one for the 247/257 and I'll buy the kit!

Danish Cat technician
04-11-2008, 11:39 AM
If I get the opportunity I will :)

bobcat_ron
04-11-2008, 11:50 AM
Done deal then!