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View Full Version : How about a case 440?


allinearth
12-14-2007, 07:36 PM
Wondering what experience you guys have had with case 440 or even any of the 400 series. Considering buying. Doesn't seem as smooth as cat I have, but I love my 1845. So what are advantages and disadvantages of case?

bobcat_ron
12-14-2007, 08:21 PM
One big disadvantage for me is severe tunnel vision.

allinearth
12-14-2007, 09:09 PM
Why? because you only like bobcat? Not a dealer in my area so bobcat pretty much out of question for me.

cat2
12-14-2007, 10:27 PM
he likes Cat now

bobcat_ron
12-14-2007, 11:10 PM
No, seriously, I sat in evey Case CTL/SSL on the lot earlier this Spring and they all had the tunnel vision thing going on, the cabs are so narrow and the loaders are so much higher you feel really boxed in.

You would really have to be a die hard Case fan to really want to buy another Case SSL/CTL after sitting in the cabs of others, hell, even Komatsu's tunnel vision is less than Case.

ksss
12-14-2007, 11:32 PM
The 440 is in my opinion one of the best of the 400 series machines. The power is awesome. Pound for pound there are few machines that can touch it. Certainly not a CAT. The 246C cant come close to it for hp or torque. The pilot controls are better than the B series CATs. They are more precise than the B series. The components are the same (Rexroth) just CASE did a better job on the valving. I personally like the servo controls just as well. Very smooth, low effort, but for those that want pilots they are offered. The visibility in the CASE is one of best (regardless of what Bobcat may think). The cowling in the back is lower than is the Bobcat and the Cat so rear visibility is better. Visibility to front and sides is very good. I spend most of my time going backward with a Preparator and I can see my wheels and visibility to the sides is important when working around sprinkler heads. No issues with that machine. The cab is not high tech, not a lot of cool lights and things to push. The cab is better on the 440 than that of the 465 but it is spartan. The new machines will be released at Conexpo and they are awesome. The cabs will be among the best on the market, currently I cant say that. Reliablity wise it is rock solid. I have 800 hours on mine and it is about 16 months old. I have worked it hard and the only issue was a cold start sensor that had to be replaced (It failed in sub 30 below zero weather at 9000 feet and I had to pull it 200 miles back home to get it fixed) but that has been the only warranty issue. They are good on fuel for the power they have. The deluxe hand controls are awesome. Allows you to control 4 different hyd. functions from your stick. Very nice although I would like to have both that and the foot control. The ride control of course is awesome increases my productivity when combined with the 2 speed by a wide margin on most jobs. Well worth the money.

My complaints: I wish it was a little heavier. It would put the power to the ground better, better cab, a better counter weight system (the new series 3machines have addressed that as well). I have had to weld angle iron on my buckets in front of the cylinders to keep rocks from getting crushed against the bucket cylinder.

I will say that usually by the time I reach 1000 hours in a machine I am usually ready for the next new machine. I will say that with this 440 I don't feel like that. It is very productive and so reliable and nice to run that it will be hard to trade it off. The lack of a two speed in my 70XT pist me off every time I ran it. They have sold a lot of 440s up here and they are well liked by the guys that have them. The new series will have some great features but I may just put the VTS tracks on this machine and keep it a dedicated VTS track machine and buy another series 3 440. We'll see what I think when I have had a chance to run one of the new machines.

My suggestion is to demo one against anything else in its class and it will dominate any performance based comparison. It may not be the most comfortable cab machine, just depends what is most important to you. Another option is to wait until the series 3 machines release and demo one of those if the cab is of a concern to you. Hopefully they wont monkey with the rest of the machine.

ksss
12-14-2007, 11:50 PM
No, seriously, I sat in evey Case CTL/SSL on the lot earlier this Spring and they all had the tunnel vision thing going on, the cabs are so narrow and the loaders are so much higher you feel really boxed in.

You would really have to be a die hard Case fan to really want to buy another Case SSL/CTL after sitting in the cabs of others, hell, even Komatsu's tunnel vision is less than Case.

You have got to be kidding me? Tunnel vision? It is hard to argue with logic like that.

allinearth
12-15-2007, 06:42 AM
Ksss, I was hoping you would chime in. Thanks for responses. Fill me in about these controls. Only thing I was shown was controls that come in when you sit down. They are similar to 1845 style but use the whole arm instead of just wrist. Seemed awkward to me but I figured after an hour or two it would be fine. Are pilot controls an option, are they same as cat? Not crazy about the dealer. Salesman seems lazy and doesn't seem to know product. Asked him several questions about counterweights, bucket sizes, warranty, etc. He didn't know. This dealer is only 1 mile from me. Service is a big consideration and this would be convenient but never have really liked this dealer. I currently have a cat 242b with vts. I would like to take vts off of cat (don't like the power or break out force) and put it on the case. Called loegering and they said it will bolt right up with no change. Thought that was pretty sweet. any more comments?

Construct'O
12-15-2007, 09:16 AM
After that sales pitch KSSS i'm sold !!!!! Great input on the 440 and from someone that has the experience and having used his machine for that many hour you have a good review from an actual owner,not a no nothing saleman at your dealership.

With that said i would seat down and have a long talk with the owner of the dealership and check with some of the locals, that have dealed with them, not only with sales but service back in the shop area.Never know you might still need them,might get a machine built on Christmas holiday weekend.

By the way there is a difference in tunnel vision,tunnel blind,and color blind!!!!! Guess we all have a little of that,me included at times:hammerhead:

KSSS your missing the boat:confused:

Good luck.:usflag:

Fieldman12
12-15-2007, 09:50 AM
Personally I have been around several Case machines including the 440 and I think it is one of the best out there. As far as the tunnel vision the cab seems a little more narrow when sitting in side but over all I think it is not bad to see out of at all. I feel if you buy a Case you will be a very happy customer. I have nothing bad to say about a Case machine. Case tends to put allot of pride into there machines and they have been making skid steers a good while now. I think Deere is finally catching up with Case in the skid steer market. I like the Cat skid steers but as far as there MTL's go give me a Case, Takeuchi, or Deere any day at this time. Once I see Cat has the undercarriage bugs worked out I may feel different but until I know for sure they are I will stick with what is proven.

Fieldman12
12-15-2007, 09:56 AM
Case machines also have good resale which Deere needs to work allot harder at and Case has a good bit of machines out there also. They are kinda like othere brands though popular in some areas more than others. A good close dealer has allot to do with it. Cat really needs to work on there resale on MTL's. They cannot be too many die hard Cat guys happy about that.

bobcat_ron
12-15-2007, 10:56 AM
Any CTL/MTL has a lower resale value, my T190 was only worth barely $24,000 with 1750 hrs, I paid over $60,000 new, it seems the general public still prefers SSL over CTL due to the ever increasing awareness of track wear and replacement costs.

Fieldman12
12-15-2007, 11:16 AM
Yes most MTL/CTL machines have less resale than skid steers. I love Cat equipment but theres seems to be the lowest in the track department. As far as the Cat skid steers they hold not too bad. Deere is still trying to recover there resale value from the early 200 Series machines. I hope the C series undercarriage works out for them. By the way I like your machine. It will be interesting how the undercarriage holds up on it since it is a late B series.

RockSet N' Grade
12-15-2007, 11:30 AM
Earthworker - question. How do you like the VTS? How are they holding up?

bobcat_ron
12-15-2007, 11:30 AM
By the way I like your machine. It will be interesting how the undercarriage holds up on it since it is a late B series.


I've put 20 hrs on my 247B2 in the gravel/mud now, looks exactly the same as it did new, I buried both sides in the 3/4" road mulch really bad one day, had to reverse/forward a few short times just to get the gravel cleared out of it with out looking like a fool, no harm done.

RockSet N' Grade
12-15-2007, 11:33 AM
BobCat Ron.....when are you gonna change your name to : The Artist formally known as BobCatRon? :) Will you just change it to some squiggly lines?

dozerman21
12-15-2007, 12:43 PM
Wondering what experience you guys have had with case 440 or even any of the 400 series. Considering buying. Doesn't seem as smooth as cat I have, but I love my 1845. So what are advantages and disadvantages of case?


I've ran a 440 wheeled skid and CTL. The cabs are definetly ancient, and if I were you I'd wait until the new design came out if you can. I personally think that Cat's pilots are smoother. I only ran the Case pilots for a short time, but to me they felt too responsive and more jerky compared to Cat. Having said that, I've always ran and prefered Case, or hand controls, on a skid/CTL. Pilots are lower effort, but that's not necessary to me and I think the servo controls are easy work. Case's servos are smooth, I just wish they would set them farther apart. I too think they feel a little ackward. I have hand controls on my Deere CTL and I find them more comfortable because the sticks are wider apart.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Case skid. They are proven over time, have good power, and good resale/trade in value. We have a 12 year old 1845C that still runs as good as new. I think the visibility is o.k. except for the cab door... it's flat out a dumb design .The door should be as much glass as possible, and Case's door has too much steel, along with the wiper and washer fluid tank in the way. I know Case has offered a different cab door on some models, but those weren't much better. I'm interested in seeing the new cab. If they make it pressurized with more bells and whistles, it will be another winner.

ksss
12-15-2007, 12:45 PM
Ksss, I was hoping you would chime in. Thanks for responses. Fill me in about these controls. Only thing I was shown was controls that come in when you sit down. They are similar to 1845 style but use the whole arm instead of just wrist. Seemed awkward to me but I figured after an hour or two it would be fine. Are pilot controls an option, are they same as cat? Not crazy about the dealer. Salesman seems lazy and doesn't seem to know product. Asked him several questions about counterweights, bucket sizes, warranty, etc. He didn't know. This dealer is only 1 mile from me. Service is a big consideration and this would be convenient but never have really liked this dealer. I currently have a cat 242b with vts. I would like to take vts off of cat (don't like the power or break out force) and put it on the case. Called loegering and they said it will bolt right up with no change. Thought that was pretty sweet. any more comments?

I bought a set of VTS that are for a 246 CAT and are said to bolt in place on the CASE have not got around to trying that yet.

Counterweight: This is one of my issues with the 440. The weight has been added under the machine. It is welded in place and at times it drags. The series 3 machines have removed that. There are mods that replace the original rear bumper and add the weight there. All the new machines coming out of my dealer have that in place. Combined with the factory, I'll bet you running a ROC of around 2400. I have never had that done mod but have considered it. If your running the VTS you could remove the factory weights as with the VTS it would not be an issue. You will be amazed at what the 440 will lift with the VTS. I have run a 70XT with VTS and the lifting ability is very impressive, it will lift everything that my 465 will lift.

Warranty: They are running 3 years 4000 hours powertrain 1 year full machine.

Hand Controls: They offer pilots in either ISO (CAT) or H (CASE) pattern. They can be changed from one to the other with pattern change kit (that is a permenant change not like on a mini ex with a pattern changer). As far as the "excavator style controls" on the servo equipped machines I like them better than the 1840-45 style wrist controls. They are not as fatiguing and much more smooth than the 1800 series. The pilots are set up just like in your CAT.

Bucket size: I spec my smaller machines (70XT-440) with a tire width of 66" (nothing more than flipping the tires around, the machine is 73" when they are flipped the other way). Depending on the width of the machine standard bucket widths are 66, 73 and 83". The 83" would be a VTS only type of bucket. They offer two grades of buckets from CASE on this machine. Get the HD bucket. I am not excited about the standard duty bucket longevity.
IF you are getting a cab or plan on changing attachments alot the hyd coupler is worth the money.

The upside as far as dealer support is you wont likely need to see much of them. They are pretty trouble free. The 440 machine is supported by all dealers not just the Construction side as is the 450 and 465 so they should not have a problem wrenching on it if the need arose.

Again, get a demo and see if the machine does what you will need it to. I would feel pretty confident in saying you will never lack for power or breakout with this machine.

Tunnel vision: I have never had issue with this. Maybe I am just used to it.

Resale: Case machines traditionally have excellent resale. I have had depreciation numbers as low as $5.00 an hour on some machines factoring in purchase price and trade in price. I usually trade out at 1200 to 1500 hours.

If you order one, these are the options that I order mine with on this machine. Ride Control, two speed, hyd coupler, guards on lift cylinders, jump start terminals and master electric disconnect (located in the back of the machine allows you to easily jump start other vehicles and allows you to shut off juice so it cant be started.) The deluxe handles are essential along with the electrical connections on the front, foot throttle but I think it is standard don't remember. I get cab and heat but that probably is not as important to you as it is to me.

Any questions on this machine feel free to PM me if you like.

ksss
12-15-2007, 12:58 PM
BobCat Ron.....when are you gonna change your name to : The Artist formally known as BobCatRon? :) Will you just change it to some squiggly lines?

Now that is funny.:clapping:

dozerman21
12-15-2007, 01:38 PM
Hand Controls: They offer pilots in either ISO (CAT) or H (CASE) pattern.

I'd like to try the H Pattern. I've only ran the ISO. Being able to switch back and forth on the Cat and Case is a nice option.

KSSS- I take it this new series of cabs and the pilot controls will be available on all models, CTL's included?

ksss
12-15-2007, 01:42 PM
I've ran a 440 wheeled skid and CTL. The cabs are definetly ancient, and if I were you I'd wait until the new design came out if you can. I personally think that Cat's pilots are smoother. I only ran the Case pilots for a short time, but to me they felt too responsive and more jerky compared to Cat. Having said that, I've always ran and prefered Case, or hand controls, on a skid/CTL. Pilots are lower effort, but that's not necessary to me and I think the servo controls are easy work. Case's servos are smooth, I just wish they would set them farther apart. I too think they feel a little ackward. I have hand controls on my Deere CTL and I find them more comfortable because the sticks are wider apart.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Case skid. They are proven over time, have good power, and good resale/trade in value. We have a 12 year old 1845C that still runs as good as new. I think the visibility is o.k. except for the cab door... it's flat out a dumb design .The door should be as much glass as possible, and Case's door has too much steel, along with the wiper and washer fluid tank in the way. I know Case has offered a different cab door on some models, but those weren't much better. I'm interested in seeing the new cab. If they make it pressurized with more bells and whistles, it will be another winner.

The new cab will be on both skids and CTLs. The controls are not switchable form ISO to H in the field. It is a dealer installed switch kit much like CATs B series. Pilots don't allow for switching patterns (Komatsu does but there are issues). It requires flow and pressure to be the same for all functions. That does not work well in a skid steer.

All are good points. The visibility on the cab turned out to not be as big of a deal as I thought. When the machine first arrived, I was concerned about the door issues (a lot of steel and less glass). After running the machine I either adapted or the sight lines are not as bad as one would think. I agree there needed to be more glass. I wish I could say more about the new design. I was sworn not to but can say they are pressurized, you will never need more lighting, and your arse will think your sitting in a GMC SLT. They are not any wider though.

The controls I think like all of them require some adaptation. I have run lot of different machines back to back (which is difficult to do) and evaluated them for feel, preciseness (if that is a word) and sensitivity. The initial thoughts tend to be different than the comments at the end of an hour of running the machine. If you run one type of control system for years and step into someone elses control system it is easy to mistake familarity with comfort and so you tend to scrutize issues that actually are benficial. Many guys have that issue with TK initially. This can be an issue with in the same brand. When we first demoed the 440 we also had a Bobcat 220 with e/h on site along with our 70XT. My main operator who had spent many hours in the 70XT thought the 440 was too responsive (servo), jerky and hard to control. He wanted to get out of the machine (he did not like the 220 either). I told him to spend the day in it and I would stop back. After 5 hours he could not get the smile off of his face. The 440 stayed. The 440 is much more precise than the 70XT control system. It is faster and thus requires a different touch than the 70 did. I was more jumpy with it initally. Once you adapt to the speed you are more productive, once smooth and fast come together.

bobcat_ron
12-15-2007, 02:43 PM
BobCat Ron.....when are you gonna change your name to : The Artist formally known as BobCatRon? :) Will you just change it to some squiggly lines?


Bah....I'm such a procrastinator!!!

I'm sure I'll get around to it when I find the right name!

allinearth
12-15-2007, 04:48 PM
I like the vts system so far. Had one issue which probably was not really an issue I'll explain. Shortly after I got them I saw little wires coming out of the inside of the rubber track. Not a lot and certainly not the major chords, just a little piece of wire here and there. I made a comment to my cat salesman and asked if this was an issue. He said It had something to do with the factory molding and it would not affect the life of the track but without any additional prodding got 2 new tracks(rubber) and had them put on. I thought that was pretty good cause I was not that worried about them. Now have about 600 hours on them. There is a few cut and abrasions but no other problems. I have done several projects that could have not been done without them. I don't really like them for loading or jobs that require lot of turning. Really need wheels and track machines available depending on application. As far as changing back and forth on the same machine, I don't consider it. Too much trouble. I don't want cabs or heat, too much in and out for us. I am trying to put something together before year's end so ordering probably not an option. I wanted to demo a machine and dealer said they didn't have a demo unless I wanted to demo a used 1845 or 95xt. What good is that? I would cosider another dealer but I do not want to take the machine 50+ miles if some little bug needs to be fixed. Don't have time for that. Any suggestions?

allinearth
12-15-2007, 04:57 PM
Oh yea, almost forgot. I was quoted 28k something +tax for a basic machine. They offered 7500 for a '93? 1840 with 4600 hrs on trade in. Offered 1700 rebate for cash or pretty low interest rates (0% for 36 mos etc). How's this sound?

allinearth
12-15-2007, 05:05 PM
One more thing.:rolleyes: Seems like I heard or read that case had issue with running VTS on their skids and it may void warranty. Anyone have any info on this?

dozerman21
12-15-2007, 05:44 PM
Your dealer needs to get its act together it sounds like. Only offering you those used demos is BS. Either they aren't too customer oriented or they're not taking you seriously. I wouldn't give them a sale if it were me. Are there any farm implement dealers around that might sell Case? We have a couple around here that sell Case skids.

The financing deal is good, and the offer on your machine is probably fair... I guess it depends on if they jacked up the price on the new 440. I'm not sure what those go for, or the warranty coverage if you use the VTS system.

cat2
12-15-2007, 05:54 PM
I don't think i would go with case. is there any other dealers near you. I'm not saying that case isn't good, but if you want to demo a machine they should bring whatever you want right out to you

Construct'O
12-15-2007, 07:42 PM
If it was me and really serious about the machine i would drive the fifty miles and see what the other dealer is like.Fifty miles isn't that big a deal.

At least they might let you demo there machine,but if they did i would definitly consider dealing with them on the machine.

Also you would be able to get a idea of their cost to compare.Don't forget to take a few pictures with you of your used machine while your at it.

Check the lot to see if they have used machine like yours and ask them what their asking price is.

Maybe the other dealer will get on the stick when you pull in with your new Case skid with the other dealers machine sticker pasted on the side.:dancing:

Then if he says something,you can say sorry to late!Maybe next time.:usflag:

ksss
12-15-2007, 08:09 PM
The price he quoted on a basic machine is good and your trade price also fair. The demo deal is BS. I agree they are not taking you seriously. If the dealer that is 50 miles away has a 440 to demo you may try and get one from them. No matter where you purchased the machine, any CASE dealer will honor the warranty. The only issue is sometimes dealers wont sell in someone elses area. Given the fact that the dealer closest to you has a shitty salesman would likely void that. I would assume that this dealer is an ag dealer not a dedicated construction store? I would contact the next dealer closest to you and see what they can do for you. You may also contact the store manager of the store closest to you. Regardless of what you do, he should be aware of this guys BS. A call to the regional sales rep would also correct the problem.

I have spoke with CASE engineering on the VTS. They are not aware of any problems which is not to say that there are not any but that they have not been made aware of them. He also stated that the axles and drivetrain in these machines are some of the heaviest in the industry so if there are problems with the running gear on these then others would also be having problems. I would tend to agree since the warranty on the drivetrain is the best in the industry that I am aware of. As far as outright voiding the warranty that would should not occur unless the damage can be directly linked to the VTS, but it would be a question to ask the dealer who would sell you the machine.

bobcat_ron
12-15-2007, 08:09 PM
One more thing.:rolleyes: Seems like I heard or read that case had issue with running VTS on their skids and it may void warranty. Anyone have any info on this?

The only warranty issues I can think of would be from the drive motors and chains, there is only 1 drive chain on each side that drives the VTS, that puts twice as much strain on them.

allinearth
12-15-2007, 08:33 PM
I am not confident in this salesperson giving me straight answers or even answers that is why I am asking here in hopes of getting non biased answers. Looks like I will have to go talk to the owner mon. This salesman is not new. If i were me selling bet I would know these machines inside and out. Seems a lot of times by the time I am ready to buy I know more about what I am buying than the guy selling. Yes this is an ag store. My lack of confidence is mainly why I went with cat last time but really think I prefer case.

ksss
12-15-2007, 09:10 PM
I run into that with pickup salesman all the time. I have forgot more about GM pickups than most of these salesman ever knew. That is why I try to find a smart one and stay with him. When it comes to CASE equipment, my local salesman is sharp and I am lucky to have him especially when I hear stories like this guy in Ak. I have more direct lines to info on skid steers than does my salesman, but he knows his stuff pretty well. The best thing is that I get his best numbers on my purchases. We don't have to dicker back and forth.

Construct'O
12-15-2007, 09:24 PM
I agree with the power of information.That is if it is the correct info !!!!!

You need to weed out the incorrect or ask more question.This is a great site for info.Good and bad.Things gradually gets weeded out to what will work or doesn't.

Well most of the time:dancing:

It is good to have your ducks in row when you go shopping! Maybe you need to turn things around on the saleman and tell him to ask you some question and see how that flys:rolleyes:

Since i have been on here i do question my saleman more and see if he does have the answers i'm looking for,if not i tell him to ask the higher ups what's going on.

We have go around at different times,but things finally get answered or done,sometimes it just takes longer then you might like.:usflag:

Fieldman12
12-16-2007, 06:02 AM
Someone at Case should be able to give you a demo of any machine no problem. Granted it may be limited to what they have on the lot but if they want your business they could even try to get one from another dealer for you. I go to farm shows and so on all the time. Allot of the people I have never met before in my life. I almost have to beat them off with a stick because they are always trying to send something out for me to demo. Just this past September Case was wanting to send out a CTL. I would have taken the offer but I know I was going to want to keep it if I got to use it.:) At this time my business does not have the demand or the cash flow coming through to justify it. Anyway find a good dealer and they will bend over backwards for you. The last two pickups I bought brand new my dealer got from KY for me.

YellowDogSVC
12-16-2007, 12:49 PM
You have got to be kidding me? Tunnel vision? It is hard to argue with logic like that.

how does this machine compare to a Bobcat s300k with 81 hp and 3300psi at 37gpm?

Honestly, I have never considered case but your review made me think about the brand.

ksss
12-16-2007, 01:30 PM
The 440 would not likely have enough ROC for your attachment. It does make more hp and torque and about as much HF gpm, but would likely not have enough ROC at 2200.

The 465 would likely be the equivelent of what your currently running. Mechanically it would run your attachments much better than the BC but I would wait until the new cab is available. If your unhappy with the leaks in the BC you would not be happy with the current CASE cab. I have to plug leaks just like you do. The new series 3 machines have addressed the cab issues. If your going to ConExpo in March they will have the new machines there. It would give you chance to check them out. I would consider demoing one of the new machines if you chose to replace your current machine.

YellowDogSVC
12-16-2007, 01:50 PM
thanks for the input. I am keeping my options open and not going to keep blind loyalty to one brand when I haven't gotten any answsers. I did write bobcat and ask some questions. We'll see if they are my friend or not.

cat2
12-16-2007, 01:59 PM
thanks for the input. I am keeping my options open and not going to keep blind loyalty to one brand when I haven't gotten any answsers. I did write bobcat and ask some questions. We'll see if they are my friend or not.

Good luck trying to get them to respond

ksss
12-16-2007, 02:09 PM
I have been trying to find a torque spec on the 330 and I cant find one. The CASE web site does not list the 330 and Bobcats site does not give a torque rating only a hp spec of 85. The marketing spin in the BC website says that the 330 has a more improved HF performance capability, but it would be nice if they backed that up with numbers. BC might make you a sweet deal to roll into a 330 but of course you would want to spend a good bit of time in one to see if there is a noticeable improvement. I don't think you are likely to get a response via email. The best would be to call BC and see what you can get done on the phone. I wonder who really reads the emails. If you can find someone who will listen, make them your friend and save the direct line number. I have been able to establish a direct line relationship with the guys that design the CASE machines. It is invaluable if your serious about you machines, which you obviously are.

allinearth
12-19-2007, 07:58 PM
Bit the bullet on a 440. Should be in by new years. Wish me luck. Thanks to everyone who responded.

mrsops
12-19-2007, 08:04 PM
I Have A Bobcat S330 And I Love It Great Power More Lift More Horse And You Get 2 More Inches In Height Always Good For Loading Tandems It Was A Few Grand More Then A S300 But Your Getting More Of A Machine Its Like Comparing A S185 And A S205. I Mean Come On S205 Kicks Ass

YellowDogSVC
12-19-2007, 09:42 PM
I have been trying to find a torque spec on the 330 and I cant find one. The CASE web site does not list the 330 and Bobcats site does not give a torque rating only a hp spec of 85. The marketing spin in the BC website says that the 330 has a more improved HF performance capability, but it would be nice if they backed that up with numbers. BC might make you a sweet deal to roll into a 330 but of course you would want to spend a good bit of time in one to see if there is a noticeable improvement. I don't think you are likely to get a response via email. The best would be to call BC and see what you can get done on the phone. I wonder who really reads the emails. If you can find someone who will listen, make them your friend and save the direct line number. I have been able to establish a direct line relationship with the guys that design the CASE machines. It is invaluable if your serious about you machines, which you obviously are.

My dealer knows me and treats me well but they won't have any info other than "sit in it and see". I get frustrated with Bobcat corporate because they play with numbers for marketing. This isn't a game to me. Performance is everything and productivity is just below quality of work for what I do.

mrsops
12-19-2007, 10:25 PM
How Much Are They Telling U For The Machine

ksss
12-24-2007, 07:07 PM
Bit the bullet on a 440. Should be in by new years. Wish me luck. Thanks to everyone who responded.


Congraduations on your new machine purchase. "Merry Christmas to me" is what I always say.

What options did you get?

allinearth
12-24-2007, 08:33 PM
Got it plain Jane. No options except a 79" bucket so it would fit the vts. For my operation and what it will be used for couldn't see spending the extra cash. Yep, Merry Christmas to me!

Scag48
12-25-2007, 12:45 AM
Please report back on how you like the 440 and get us some pics, we love pictures! Congrats and good luck with it, Case machines are starting to grow on me and I'm a DIE HARD Cat guy.

ksss
12-25-2007, 12:55 AM
I also need to get an 80" grading bucket to cover the tracks on the VTS. The buying never seems to end.

Scag I would like to see what you think of a Pilot equipped 440.

Scag48
12-25-2007, 04:59 AM
Scag I would like to see what you think of a Pilot equipped 440.

If I could try one out for a few hours, I'd definately be willing to do that. I've been contemplating putting in a bid to re-grade a small parking lot across the street from the restaurant where I work. It's a gravel lot specifically for our employee parking, potholes are getting bad, was thinking I could rough out the holes and smooth things out a little for the folks who drive cars into the lot, potholes don't bother my F150 very much. With that said, I'm going to have to rent a machine, my buddy's dozer is busy and I can't get it down here, this is all assuming I get the bid and this baby 6 hour project goes through. If it does, I may rent a Case machine to kill two birds with one stone.

allinearth
12-25-2007, 10:00 AM
I priced the pilot option at around 2,100 I think. I would have liked to keep it the same as the cat but thought it was pricey. Now will have 3 skids with 3 different controls:dizzy: At least they are all hand control.

2109 Stang
12-25-2007, 11:01 AM
Earthworker congratulations on your new machine, I don't know what other skids you have, but for sure your not going to complain about lack of power on your Case, under 7000 lbs and 82 Cummins hp must be a beast ,let us know how you feel about it when you put some hrs on it ,and yes we like pictures.

bobcat_ron
12-25-2007, 11:14 AM
I also need to get an 80" grading bucket to cover the tracks on the VTS.

That's one of the draw backs to the VTS, none of your buckets work as it makes the overall machine width way too wide!

ksss
12-25-2007, 02:46 PM
That's one of the draw backs to the VTS, none of your buckets work as it makes the overall machine width way too wide!

Yea that is true, the upside is your moving more material faster.

I could not have three machines with three different control systems. Unless of course I was not running them. There is a landscaper here that has a Gehl Tbar, Volvo pilot and CASE servo. The only way to do that is if you have three crews of guys and the machines stay with each crew. Otherwise I could see accidents as a result or at least lost productivity due to operators not being familiar with the operating system. I have issue with the thought of even having one machine with pilots and the other servo.

allinearth
12-25-2007, 03:03 PM
Never been a problem going from cat to 1845 but I'll let you know. We don't usually move large amounts of material. Usually spread topsoil or move trees, load mulch at yard etc. I am the best operator I have but others show promise, just need more hours. From what I have seen a person either has it or they don't. An operator can improve but if they don't have coordination in the first place seems they will never be great. I have always liked the extra width of vts. Makes machine more stable imo.

bobcat_ron
12-25-2007, 03:20 PM
Yea that is true, the upside is your moving more material faster.


But the downside is now there is more stress on the 2 drive chains powering the VTS!!

ksss
12-25-2007, 03:39 PM
But the downside is now there is more stress on the 2 drive chains powering the VTS!!

That is also true and it is a concern of mine. The 440 has the higher strength 100 series chains and heavy axles but I can't argue with the logic that your transmitting all that power and torque through one axle instead of two. Obviously if there mass problems with the way the VTS functioned we would be aware of them by now. I have not heard of any horror stories from CASE or the net. You do here of an occasional drive component failure on machines equipped with the VTS, but I have not heard of any OEM having repeatable issues with the VTS.

So I guess I am trusting in that. The aculades for the system seem to by far outway the negatives (width is one of them). If drive component failures were a serious issue it would be well known by now in what I believe is the 4th or 5th year of VTS production.

I agree with Earthworker, I don't see these coming off and on very often, so I plan on treating mine like a dedicated tracked machine for the most part.

Tigerotor77W
12-25-2007, 06:56 PM
When do yours come in, exactly?

ksss
12-26-2007, 11:55 AM
When do yours come in, exactly?


Mine are in my yard on a pallet. I have not had time to do anything with them. It might be Feb. until I get them on.

Tigerotor77W
12-26-2007, 01:39 PM
Aha. Should be some fun times after you do get them on... ;)

Construct'O
12-26-2007, 02:11 PM
Mine are in my yard on a pallet. I have not had time to do anything with them. It might be Feb. until I get them on.

Let me guess????? They aren't on! :confused:

Probably got jobs to finish up and not time or want to take time to put them on right now.

Then there is the work you are doing, is something you don't need tracks for yet or want tracks for.

Then there is the should i get that other machines,so i can just leave the tracks on this one.Then there is always the money and thought of enough work.

Not years tax deduction(another machine),still time for this year!

Decisions,decisions,don't you just love them ?

Well how close did i come.If none of the above,would like to hear the why nots?

I just want to hear your review and to know if they come up to your expendations???? I hope so.The cost of running them, other questions to come later:dancing:

The big kicker for me would be the taking them off and on.Just the time and inconveniences.
Happy New Years!!!!!!!Good luck:usflag:

RockSet N' Grade
12-26-2007, 02:26 PM
I thought I would be taking my VTS on and off as the occasion required.......wrong again! Now that the VTS are on, I believe in all honesty they're gonna stay on regardless of the environment in which we are working. Just too much of a PITA and time waster. It's snowing here........Merry Qunsa, Happy Hollidays and all the other politically correct crap.......I wish you all good health..........

ksss
12-26-2007, 04:13 PM
Your really right on all accounts Construct'O.

I have several things to finish up, ground is froze and VTS would not help and may actually be more difficult (although if I had them on I would know for sure how they work in the Winter) and I have been working on other shop projects. At the rate that it keeps snowing, it may very well be a wet Spring depending on how it melts. Good time maybe to be a new VTS owner.

As far as how the VTS will be used in my operation, I don't know yet. Of the owners that I know of, no one pulls these on and off in the real world. I will wait and see what the new Series 3 400 machines have to offer and of course the economic outlook will factor into that. I would like to just add a new 440 and maybe trade the 465 in on it. The lift capacity of the 440 with VTS is equal to that of the 465, the hp is the same, as is the torque and the weight. I will lose some ease of truck loading with less reach, whether that will be an issue I don't know. The 465 is built heavier though. These questions should answer themselves when I have had some time on the VTS.

Scag48
12-26-2007, 05:24 PM
Didn't we decide that you needed a new KW T800 first, Kaiser? :laugh:

ksss
12-26-2007, 05:38 PM
Didn't we decide that you needed a new KW T800 first, Kaiser? :laugh:

Your right, You come run it and I'll buy it......Ok maybe not new but somewhere between older and needs a little TLC.:cool2: Don't be offended if the guys that drive Fords have to park across the road and walk in every morning. Good excercise, (its right next to the CAT owner parking which is next to the dumpster, the trash man does not have to reposition that way, you can't miss it).

Scag48
12-26-2007, 10:06 PM
Thanks Shane, I'll keep that in mind. :laugh:

Got a letter from the union today, I'm in. We'll see how that gig turns out.

cat2
12-26-2007, 10:19 PM
Congrats. don't you love getting a new machine. i do. snap a few pics, and tell us what you think about it. i wouldn't mine getting a 420 after a little while

Construct'O
12-27-2007, 12:06 AM
Thanks Shane, I'll keep that in mind. :laugh:

Got a letter from the union today, I'm in. We'll see how that gig turns out.

Congratulations !!!!!!!! Scag on the union gig.If i had it to do it over probably would have joined back when younger.There just wasn't that many incentives to join.Most jobs back then was non union, they still payed union wages and some even payed more to keep union off there backs.

Mo union was always strong ,Iowa was never great.I have worked in Iowa,Mo.Ks.Neb,and NM one winter and they was all non union.Back then,an maybe still, several states had the right to work law.

Big iron look out.Hope things work out for now.Good luck.:drinkup::usflag:

ksss
12-27-2007, 04:16 PM
Thanks Shane, I'll keep that in mind. :laugh:

Got a letter from the union today, I'm in. We'll see how that gig turns out.

Good for you, When do you start?

Scag48
12-27-2007, 05:05 PM
I still have to go in and do the interviewing and such, that shouldn't be a problem though. I have to pass the high school level reading and math exams, not worried about that either. I figured the hard part was the resume and application that I sent in 2 months ago, I think they screen that pretty heavy to eliminate the complete losers, I think the interview process is more for them to meet you and know who they have in the program, not so much a selection process.

Training starts in the spring, I'm guessing mid-April. Everyone goes out for a week for the safety BS, then I think it's either 6 or 8 weeks of training at the grounds. Not really stoked about that, not really being able to work, but I'll manage to get through it. You live there and eat for free, could be worse. Basically by June I'll be throwing levers for someone, I want to get on with a big company doing highway or pipe work. All the big guys here in western WA are union, you just don't make it to the bigger equipment if you're with a non-union company. Not saying it's all about the big stuff, but I want to run 8's and 9's, maybe get on a scraper, do some finish work with a D5 or 6, jump on a grader, possibly sling some pipe with a 65 ton excavator. Seems to me that the only route to make that happen is going union. Pay is good, benefits are good, I don't think I'll have much to complain about.

qps
12-27-2007, 08:00 PM
Your right, You come run it and I'll buy it......Ok maybe not new but somewhere between older and needs a little TLC.:cool2: Don't be offended if the guys that drive Fords have to park across the road and walk in every morning. Good excercise, (its right next to the CAT owner parking which is next to the dumpster, the trash man does not have to reposition that way, you can't miss it).

you really don't expect me to take this do you???:hammerhead:...bashing my fords and cats in the same paragraph.....

ksss
12-28-2007, 04:29 AM
you really don't expect me to take this do you???:hammerhead:...bashing my fords and cats in the same paragraph.....


I was hoping someone would call me on it. Its no fun if no one hits back.:drinkup:

qps
12-28-2007, 06:49 AM
I was hoping someone would call me on it. Its no fun if no one hits back.:drinkup:

It almost got by me
:cool2:

allinearth
12-28-2007, 07:58 AM
440 supposed to be in today. I don't know how to do pics but I'll let you know what I think

ksss
12-28-2007, 12:49 PM
Was it a dealer trade to get your machine or did it come directly from the factoy in Kansas?

allinearth
12-28-2007, 03:36 PM
Understood it was coming from factory but for some reason I thought it was Minnesota. Don't know where I got that. It was already built and they wanted it off the factory by the 1st of the year which was fine for me. Machine is in but waiting for bolt on cutting edge which I insisted on. Apparently bolt ons are not standard for them.

ksss
12-28-2007, 04:25 PM
No there a couple hundred bucks.

cat2
12-28-2007, 05:09 PM
yeah make sure you let us know what you think. do you have a digital camera?

allinearth
12-28-2007, 08:11 PM
Yep. Got the camera, cord, and computer. Just don't know how to put them together.

cat2
12-28-2007, 08:14 PM
we can help you out with that.:)

Fieldman12
12-28-2007, 08:21 PM
I cannot wait to see the pics of the Case. We all should be able to help you get the pics up.

allinearth
12-28-2007, 08:57 PM
Ok I'm game. Guess its time to learn more computer skills.:dizzy:

cat2
12-28-2007, 08:58 PM
what brand of camera do you have

allinearth
12-28-2007, 09:05 PM
I have no idea. Just know it takes pics. But I'll check tomorrow

cat2
12-28-2007, 09:10 PM
ok, you get the skid steer yet? how much do you think it would cost for a 420with heat and air. no bucket, block heater, suspension seat. and counter weight

allinearth
12-28-2007, 09:32 PM
Suspension seat, That's what I forgot to get. Much easier on my back. They will deliver on Mon. My guess on the 420 would be mid to upper 20's. But I really don't know cause the 440 was the only model I priced.

cat2
12-28-2007, 09:47 PM
ok thanks. i still like the john deeres:) though

cat2
12-28-2007, 09:49 PM
wow that sucks i would never be without that seat

ksss
01-01-2008, 06:48 PM
Here is a picture of my 440 in Montana last Winter.

Fieldman12
01-01-2008, 06:53 PM
Like the pic. Ksss, you realy should post more pics. I would like to see some of the type of work you do.

allinearth
01-01-2008, 07:19 PM
Yep, looks familiar.....except for the snow.:) Got the 440 in on Mon. We got a few sunny days here so are cranking out all we can til the next rain. After that I will work on getting some pics on here if you guys will help me. May even get some before and after with vts installed. Only had time to make a loop around the shop, move a little dirt and park it inside. Not to good with the controls but couple hours will fix that. Love the rumble of the engine.

ksss
01-01-2008, 07:34 PM
Fieldman if you can tell me how to resize pictures I would be happy to do that.

cat2
01-01-2008, 08:20 PM
how do you like the case? how is the power, ride, visibility, have any problems? how many hours on it:confused:

Construct'O
01-01-2008, 09:29 PM
Fieldman if you can tell me how to resize pictures I would be happy to do that.

On this forum i never had to resize any of the pictures i posted i just loaded them the way they was.But on the other forum i had to resize them.

Unless they changed things????? Just download them off your computer as they are.Unless you have dialup,like me which is time consuming.

I set my camera to take the smaller size,so don't have to resize them,but the pictures aren't as clear.

Good luck.

ksss
01-01-2008, 09:31 PM
Yea, the one with the truck downloaded fine. Some others wont, the site says they are too big and have to be downsized manually.

ksss
01-01-2008, 09:45 PM
how do you like the case? how is the power, ride, visibility, have any problems? how many hours on it:confused:

I really like the power, it is tough to find a better power to weight ratio in this weight class. Extremely powerful in tough conditions.

The ride is fine. This machine has ride control which is awesome, it certainly helps with the quality of the ride and makes the machine much more productive.

The visibility with the cab door on is functionally fine. The door has more steel than it should. Although I cant say that it hinders me, it certainly could be better. Visibility to the sides and rear is good. I can see to the ground around the tires from inside the machine.

While the machine was up on that mountain the glow plug sensor or something malfunctioned. That is about it. That was a major inconvience.
Overall it has been really reliable. I have 800 plus on it. It is about 17 months old.

The 440 is really a great machine. There are areas to improve of course but overall it really delivers.

Construct'O
01-01-2008, 09:48 PM
Yea, the one with the truck downloaded fine. Some others wont, the site says they are too big and have to be downsized manually.

Here is one resizing site: http://www.irfanview.com/

http://www.xat.com/ here is another one.

I use this one for my resizing. http://www.onfinite.com/user/login.php
It takes a lot of time for me since i just have dial up. You will have to practice with them.

Hope there is something that will help.I just wish i had high speed,probably could if i went with satillite.

If you remember ,it is easier to just set the camera on furture pics that you want to post here and on other forum.Good luck:usflag:

SiteSolutions
01-01-2008, 11:55 PM
To downsize or upsize your pics:

1. right click your pic
2. Find "open with" and select "Paint"
(If you can't do it this way, then find "Paint" in your programs menu and then open the pic in Paint)

3. You should be looking at something like this:

SiteSolutions
01-01-2008, 11:59 PM
4. Go to the "Image" menu, and select "Stretch/Skew"
5. The Stretch/Skew window pops up, showing the pic as 100% wide and 100% tall. Enter some numbers smaller than that to shrink the picture, like 50% and 50%.

(If you use the same number for both, the pic will look fine only smaller. If you use different numbers, it will stretch it out wide or tall.)

I don't recall if older versions of Windows had "Paint" but I'm guessing most folks have this nowadays.

SiteSolutions
01-02-2008, 12:00 AM
Oh yeah, and then save the pic once you have resized it!

ksss
01-02-2008, 12:57 AM
Thanks Site. That is the way I ended up doing it. I figured it out but the pictures were oddly proportioned. I was using the limits on the Forum of 800X800. The preset size on the photoshop was 800X600 which provided a more realistic ratio. Thanks for your help.

Construct'O
01-02-2008, 01:54 PM
Simple,easy and already had it just never used it :dancing:.Thanks SS:usflag:

Fieldman12
01-02-2008, 07:38 PM
I like all the pics you posted KSSS. Sorry I did not get a chance to respond to your message about wanting picture resizing help. Have not been on here since yesterday. Sounds like all the guys answered your question already very well. Dont think I could add anything.