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Flyfisher
12-15-2007, 03:05 PM
I purchased a Toro #20056, 21" 6.5 hp with a Briggs engine on it. It decided to seize and bend the crank with oil still on the dipstick. Dealer said no warranty for that.
Had dealer put a "rebuilt" engine on, it may run but it is a far cry from what it had been. it will does not even have enough power to fill the clippings bag but about 1/2 full. Also it now blows oil out of every crevice of the mower.

Anyone with recomendations for going to Honda, Kawasaki or Kohler vertical shaft replacement engine please let me know.

Good mower, should have bought any other brand with a good engine.

barnard
12-15-2007, 06:04 PM
Engines don't bend cranks when they sieze.Its just not possible. However,If an object is hit and the crank is bent, it can "sieze" in the crankcase. Has nothing to do with the brand. You said oil was on the stick. Where on the stick? full,low or barely touching. It makes a big difference. As for a replacement go to www.smallenginewarehouse.com

Flyfisher
12-15-2007, 07:18 PM
Appreciate the input. The engine just slowed and quit running. I thought it had run out of gas. I was cutting on a rather steep side slope when it died.
As for the oil, it was barely touching the dipstick when inserted and screwed down.
I went to the website you suggested, interesting.
According to Toro, my engine model is 125k02-187E1
I've been able to find a "186" and and "188" engines but not a "187e1" unit. I'll call them on Monday

tight fishing lines

getthenet
12-15-2007, 07:29 PM
I Run Honda Push Mowers. I Hit A Stump With One Of Them And It Would Have Cost Me More To Repair It Than To Buy A New One. So I Bought A New One That Was Belt Drive Instead Of Hydro. The Belt Drive Seems Like It Slips Alot When Going Thru Zoysia Grass And Want Hardly Pull. So I Took My Bent Shaft Mower To A Friend And He Put It In A Vise, Heated And Straightend It For About $20. Runs Great Now And We Dont Use The New One Hardly Anymore. Honda Engines Start 1st Pull Almost Every Time And Are Very Effecient On Gas.

Bill Kapaun
12-16-2007, 06:42 AM
I assume you mean 0187 E1?
The 0187 & 0188 use the same crank shaft. The 0186 doesn't.

Go to the Briggs website and download the IPL for your engine.
You can compare various parts, such as the crank, carb etc.
There may be a subtle difference between the 2 engines, such as the direction the recoil start points, or it may be a totally different type carb & linkage or ????. You basically have to look at the IPL.

http://shop.briggsandstratton.com/BShopProductListingPage.asp?rsvp=0&PARENTID=0&SessionID=43C7B3A0-6A44-4EB2-B2CC-23B437198A68&MECID=100&CATALOGID=56B2B9A7-283C-11D4-8886-00B0D0203414

Bill Kapaun
12-16-2007, 06:58 AM
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/product.asp?PN=125K02-0202&desc=Briggs+Stratton+Engine+6hp+Quantum+Vertical+Step+Shaft+7+16+20+tapped+hole+for+Toro
Has the same crank. It's a "stepped shaft".

mowermankevin
12-16-2007, 08:16 AM
Fly Fisher, interesting clue in your second post, mentioning the running on a slope when it seized, that is why the old Suzuki 2-cycle was such a great engine on slopes. I can not tell you how many engines my guys have seized because of the oil being on the wrong side and not being pumped around and as you found out lubrication starvation is the end of an engine, as far as replacement engines,the Kawa FJ-180V's have been a terrible replacement, I've never seen so many different things go wrong with one engine so I'd ask forum members what there putting back on

SLR
12-16-2007, 01:27 PM
Took My Bent Shaft Mower To A Friend And He Put It In A Vise, Heated And Straightend It For About $20.
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Yikes..i dunno,but why go through all the labour of tearing the engine apart and change the temper of the shaft with heat. Is it actually true?

getthenet
12-16-2007, 02:35 PM
I Assumed He Heated It. I Know He Did Not Tear The Engine Down Though. I Have Run It All Year And It Is Still Fine.

Jay Ray
12-16-2007, 02:37 PM
Fly Fisher, interesting clue in your second post, mentioning the running on a slope when it seized, that is why the old Suzuki 2-cycle was such a great engine on slopes. I can not tell you how many engines my guys have seized because of the oil being on the wrong side and not being pumped around and as you found out lubrication starvation is the end of an engine, as far as replacement engines,the Kawa FJ-180V's have been a terrible replacement, I've never seen so many different things go wrong with one engine so I'd ask forum members what there putting back on

Just keep putting cheap Briggs on the old frame. They are going to sieze on slopes no matter what. A lot of guys are putting in an extra 25% dose of oil for slope mowing. The oil reads way over the high on the stick and will make a brand new engine smoke and hard to start, but it won't seize up as fast.

As a plus, it is revenge against the enviornmentalists who took the 2-cycle away from us. Let that baby bellow smoke all the day long. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Tharrell
12-16-2007, 06:46 PM
I've seen cranks hammered back if they're not too far off. Keep in mind, it's not going to be perfect though and it could actually weaken the crank.
It's going to wear the seal, vibrate a little and lose some oil.
I don't recommend it. Tony

topsites
12-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Yup, even thou it should have had more oil in it, this is why I run synthetic oil in all of mine, no more low oil or starvation related issues.

Somebody once said to me, most Lco's run regular oil due to a cost issue, that is, until their first engine seizes.
At that point some see the benefit in cost differences of running synthetic oil.
But with others it takes two engines, not sure if anyone goes past that, most run synthetic by then.

In my case, only one.
A Kohler :cry:

Flyfisher
12-19-2007, 03:24 PM
I was running Mobil 1 5-50 full synthetic. I am a strong believer in synthetic lubricants.
Since I originally made my post, I have learned that the engine Toro uses on the 20056 mower is a unique engine. Biggs customer support told me to buy a new engine, buy the separate crankshaft, buy the separate flywheel and a special muffler. Take these parts to my local mechanic to have the engine torn down and rebuilt with the "Toro Unique" components. Toro will not sell me an engine "factory built"

At this point yes, I am guilty of running the engine out of oil. Toro solution is to put $450 into a mower I bought 1 1/2 years ago for about $600. Briggs position is literally not our problem, go cry somewhere else.

I am now looking at alternate lawnmowers, at or near commercial grade, with a Kawasaki, Kohler, Honda, or any engine besides the Briggs.

I may wind up with a rider mower as they appear to have better engine choices.