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Mike M
12-21-2007, 06:44 PM
Okay, got a deposit on this today.

They were very happy with the demo, I could use some ideas for surface mounts. Billy gave me some good suggestions. The columns were a little tricky, but an uplight MR at 38 degrees was hidden well on the right side and covered it. It balanced with one on the left, just below hedge height. The columns are white, but the fixtures will be mostly out of site.

Second matter, they have the an English icon for a focal point between the driveway and their dock. I used a 20 watt miniwash, using my extended pole, leaning inside the phone booth, aiming at the top. The word Telephone is on clear glass, and the inside has a soft glow. It could use just a bit more punch. Thje original fixture and white cover is still on top, probably a flourescent. Anything will work attached to the ceiling, but what would look nice if someone oopens the door, plus, does anyone think I could place something inside the original rectangluar cover?

Well, those are my Q's, I can't wait to finish the front and side, so I can move on to the water point of view. They have five palms along the channel, some crepes, and their dock. It will look awesome reflecting on the water when they come in at night on their boat (big boat people, they're English), with the focal point of the phone booth visible from that view as well.

Ooops (edited): forgot to attach images

Mike M
12-21-2007, 07:08 PM
Okay, pics.

Mike M
12-21-2007, 07:18 PM
There are a total of 32 fixtures on this, between the front, and the side drive/parking area. A few small area lights (copper paths) bring the view up to the telephone booth. The myrtles at the booth are only uplighted with one stake each to provide some spill onto the outside of the phone booth--I want the inside to be seen as illuminated.

Pro-Scapes
12-21-2007, 09:51 PM
mike... that left pillar is tough. How far back does that rail go ? Is there a possibility to surface mount a bullet on the back of the rail going up on the pillar slightly crossing the front entrance ? I would go for a nice soft light not only on the pillars but also the inside of that arch way.

As the english would say you got a bit of hard cheese on this one.

I would use 2 fixtures in that phone booth I think... unique ring mounted inside with probably a 10-20w bulb and the wash going up.

Mike M
12-22-2007, 10:01 AM
Does Unique have a nice ring mount for surface mounting? All I see is the universal bracket, which I does want for this application, except inside the phone booth.

Lite4
12-22-2007, 11:26 AM
Sweet house Mike. post some pics of that one when you are done. I can't wait to see the phone booth. Good idea about inside illumination.

Pro-Scapes
12-22-2007, 11:39 AM
Does Unique have a nice ring mount for surface mounting? All I see is the universal bracket, which I does want for this application, except inside the phone booth.

only ring mount I see in unique is the comet mr 11 fixture. I think you might be confusing ring mounts with surface mounts ? Ring mounts hang from a small chain... surface mounts usually use a flange in place of the stake or are sinilar to a deck light type mounting and are attached directly to the surface.

Need some pics of the other side of the railing there to see about mounting it more concealed. This house should of been designed with provisions for lighting installed in the infastructure

Mike M
12-22-2007, 03:50 PM
surface mounts usually use a flange in place of the stake

Yeah, that's what I need for the verticles. I was able to find a good spot to the right of the rail that cover the column nicely and matched up with the left side lighting. I thought a wash would have been right, but it was a 35 watt 38 degree MR 16 that made it work. The owner and I were really happy with it. So I need a nice flange, and I don't want to use the universal bracket for this application.

The phone booth needed a little more punch than the 20 watt wash I put inside, it swallowed up the light, especially with the relative ambiant light on the outside from the crepes (which is why I only put one stake on each crepe there). Almost perfect, probably just needs an MR16 20 or 35 watter with or without a frosted lens.

Tim, I'll take pic's when I'm done, but I'll pm them to you. hehe.

Mike M
12-22-2007, 03:55 PM
More angles so Billy can talk about provisions and hard cheese.

Pro-Scapes
12-23-2007, 12:30 AM
if you intend to blend your going to need a white spotlight there and a white mounting flange... kichler... nightscaping... vision 3... and im sure a host of others have a quality fixture to place there. Hiding the wire will be the difficult task. I would see how well it worked mounted to the surface of the white deco but i dont think thats going to work.

Im really wondering if you cant effectivly light this entrance with 2 spots from the left bed there. Where did you demo it from? You obviously dont want a spot or wire hanging around that entrance way.

If that booth swallowed up the light from a 20w bulb I doubt the mr11 powered commet is the way to go. If they dont use it maybe you can place 2 fixtures in the bottom of it shining up. That should light up the "telephone" sign. I have not lit any phonebooths so its hard for me to say on it.

Lite4
12-23-2007, 11:27 AM
Thats a tough one to light on the right side from the bottom. How did it look in the demo. I asume you placed the lamp just to the right of the rail, but probably had a pretty good shadow. Have you considered down lighting from the soffit above? I know it is less dramatic and it will not get the arch and upper gable but the light will be even on the fluted columns.

If I was then going to light up the interior of that arch. I think the only approach to do that would be to run my wire under that white stucco bond line that is running horizontally along the lower part of the walls. You could maybe adhere and hide a 14g wire under that bond line and run to an individual light placed in a flower pot, placed next to that fluted interior column. That is about the only way I could think of to get even light distributed on that entryway. 4 fixtures, 2 up and 2 down. Just my .02 though.

Mike, after you attatch the wire; paint it white to match the stucco and you would probably never notice it unless you stuck your head down there to see it.

Mike M
12-23-2007, 12:14 PM
Thats a tough one to light on the right side from the bottom. How did it look in the demo. I asume you placed the lamp just to the right of the rail, but probably had a pretty good shadow

Tim, you and Billy are noticing the same stuff I did, nothing was working in the demo with washes, but to my surprise, I was easily able to use an MR bullet to the right of the right side column, without a shadow. Looked very nice! The wfl beam just cleared the rail, and both right and left side columns matched up. The demo was mandatory for me to play around and solve this. The homeowner has two 120 lights that fill inside that archway nicely, and if he is not expecting company, he can kill it, and there is still plent of ambient light and bright light on the white trim; the whole front looks great. I thought about two white downlights, but it's not necessary. Also Unique has white wire I can order with the fixture. But I am still wondering if there is a flange for the mount I don't want the bracket for this.

Lite4
12-23-2007, 12:28 PM
Mike, I know Unique sells a bracket with their northstar fixture. Is something like what you are looking for? You would then use masonry anchors to attatch to the brick.

Mike M
12-23-2007, 12:35 PM
Is that mount compatible with an MR 16 up-light? The catalog doesn't mention it.

Pro-Scapes
12-23-2007, 03:34 PM
just about any bullet is surface mountable. the flanges are availible from many sources including spj... rsl... kichler... cast...unique just to name a few and avalible in several materials and colors. Im pretty sure nightscaping would have this standard accesory as well.

I think I have some SPJ ones that match kichler bbr bullets and a handful of cast ones that are bronze. One issue you will have is hiding wire and stucco being a naturally brittle material. One decent bump and your light will be torn out. Sometimes in situations like this I like the kim mini vaults but it doesnt look like you got a place to set one.

Mike M
12-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Well if that base on the northstar (mr-11 fixture) fiits half inch than that would match the weathered brass. Billy I was going to go with white, but he wants the column on the left illuminated from just below hedge level. The fixture on the right will only been seen from that terrace.

I'd rather have two weathered brass up lights which have a nice architectural appearance than one white one brass, or two whites with one on the yellow stucko. But I will order the one fixture with a white cable. I already found good hiding spots for the cable.

For the most part, neither fixture will really be seen from the road or driveway.

Pro-Scapes
12-23-2007, 06:09 PM
a few companies including kichler spj and unique offer the weathered brass mounts. You should have zero issues finding an exact match... Unscrew stake... thread on the mount. Just be careful with you tighten down the mount so you do not pinch any wires and create a broken jacket or short.

Unique has the sphere base... I cant find a pic but im pretty sure thats it. It comes in natural... weathered brass and white.

Mike M
12-23-2007, 07:26 PM
Great Billy, that's all good info. Thanks.

Mike

Pro-Scapes
12-24-2007, 09:07 AM
just be cautious mounting to that stucco. Its not the firmeest foundation. If when you predrill your anchors you hot wood consider using a stainless deck screw to attach to. Not sure how the houses are made there but here we got mostly brick which is easy to work with for the most part.

When I lived out west the stucco homes had no plywood sheeting on them... studs wrapped in styrofoam and chickenwire then stucco. Nightmare to mount to.

Mike M
12-24-2007, 09:28 AM
I'll tap with a pilot bit, see what's there. I have lots of screw types and anchors, not a prob.

The Lighting Geek
12-24-2007, 03:20 PM
The phone booth needed a little more punch than the 20 watt wash I put inside, it swallowed up the light, especially with the relative ambiant light on the outside from the crepes (which is why I only put one stake on each crepe there). Almost perfect, probably just needs an MR16 20 or 35 watter with or without a frosted lens.



on the inside of the phone booth you might want to look at the comet either with the ring hanger or remove the ring assembly and attach it directly flush mounted. I use the Comet this way in gazebos and such. I think it would work perfectly for this.

JoeyD
12-26-2007, 03:24 PM
The Spherebase will work with any Unique fixture. It is the best mounting option to use when wanting a smooth flat transition from fixture to wall. I replied to your PM in detail.

Mike M
12-26-2007, 04:30 PM
Thanks. This AM I ordered the sphere base for this project.

JoeyD
12-27-2007, 11:50 AM
You will like it!! It looks and works very good!

NightScenes
12-27-2007, 01:47 PM
Too bad I missed this post, I would have suggested the Kichler 15607. You can get it in white or architectural bronze.

Mike M
12-27-2007, 07:06 PM
You gotta love that fixture design, up or down.

Anywho, thanks, Paul, but I needed a surface mount for an uplight. Also, I need fixtures with no less than a 15 year warrenty.

I like the Kichler brass verson of the 15384's, and I like their flat lense pattern on the building surface, but I like the leads that come with Unique and Cast, and I like the Unique joints and hardware. Although I have to admit the 15384 has a slick profile, especially for surface moutning.

Chris J
12-27-2007, 08:21 PM
Kichler's warranty is for life as long as the customer maintains the service agreement that you provide. Don't know if you knew that or not.

Mike M
12-27-2007, 10:07 PM
Holy crap. Didn't know that.

Pro-Scapes
12-27-2007, 10:20 PM
Kichler's warranty is for life as long as the customer maintains the service agreement that you provide. Don't know if you knew that or not.

is that just on brass or on azt's as well ?

NightScenes
12-27-2007, 10:26 PM
I believe that the warranty is on all of their fixtures actually. When it comes to the surface mount, I was just letting you know that there is a small mount that can be used just about anywhere.

Mike M
12-27-2007, 10:35 PM
That's true, that mount would work with uplights too. Thanks Paul.

Chris J
12-28-2007, 09:13 AM
is that just on brass or on azt's as well ?

The warranty program is for azt as well as brass. As long as your customer maintains the service program with you, Kichler will back up their warranty. If you need more info, contact Kichler and ask them to send you the packet on their "Kichler for Life" program.

irrig8r
12-28-2007, 10:12 AM
Vista makes a surface mount in either brass or aluminum. 2 3/4" diam x 3/4" ht.

http://www.vistapro.com/Files/Pictures/wb-150.jpg

http://www.vistapro.com/Files/Specs/WB-150-spec.pdf

JoeyD
12-28-2007, 10:40 AM
FYI we offer a program called the Consumer Buyer Protection Plan. It is a program for you installers that will allow Unique to notonly warranty our products for life which we do anyway on Brass and TF's but also alows us to back you the installer on warranting the integrity of the installation. You guys fill out the according paperwork, most of which you do anyway for a closeout packet, you then send it to us and we file it. You give your customers a copy along witht he certificate and should you ever get out of the buisness or dissapear Unique will be able to help and assist the homeowner or new contractor with troubleshooting the system should anything fail.

It is a really good marketing tool for you guys. Again we warranty with or without the paperwork this just allows us to help them with how the system is laid out.

Pro-Scapes
12-28-2007, 10:44 AM
The warranty program is for azt as well as brass. As long as your customer maintains the service program with you, Kichler will back up their warranty. If you need more info, contact Kichler and ask them to send you the packet on their "Kichler for Life" program.

I emailed mike S about it and he said it was a limited test program and he was not sure if they are still offering it. He will email me when he finds out.

Pro-Scapes
12-28-2007, 10:47 AM
FYI we offer a program called the Consumer Buyer Protection Plan. It is a program for you installers that will allow Unique to notonly warranty our products for life which we do anyway on Brass and TF's but also alows us to back you the installer on warranting the integrity of the installation. You guys fill out the according paperwork, most of which you do anyway for a closeout packet, you then send it to us and we file it. You give your customers a copy along witht he certificate and should you ever get out of the buisness or dissapear Unique will be able to help and assist the homeowner or new contractor with troubleshooting the system should anything fail.

It is a really good marketing tool for you guys. Again we warranty with or without the paperwork this just allows us to help them with how the system is laid out.

but for your program EVERYTHING has to be unique right ? right down to the wire. some of us cannot readily get unique wire. Say I were to install a couple of "the other guys" recessed lights on your system... does this void the protection plan ? Maybe we need to start a new warranty thread and find out if guys have had to use em or not.

JoeyD
12-28-2007, 10:57 AM
but for your program EVERYTHING has to be unique right ? right down to the wire. some of us cannot readily get unique wire. Say I were to install a couple of "the other guys" recessed lights on your system... does this void the protection plan ? Maybe we need to start a new warranty thread and find out if guys have had to use em or not.
You are correct in that everything should be Unique when talking fixtures and transformers. But say you are using a style light like you said that is going to be recessed. Unqiue does not make this light so we are not going to hurt you hear we just cant warranty that light should it fail. The homeowner should know that the light is covered by its own manufacturer warranty.

Now where you are wrong is that you dont need to use Unique wire. Nor do you really need to use our Hubs. You just need to wire in a Hub format, document each runs amp load and voltage as well what tap it is hooked to on the TF and what TF it is on. Pretty simple stuf. You do need to provide a simple as built drawing as well.

Essentially we just require what we believe everyone should be doing anyway. You should always have a closeout packet documenting everything you did on the job for future reference and maintanence. Our forms just help you with that.

Joey D.

pete scalia
12-30-2007, 02:14 PM
Vista makes a surface mount in either brass or aluminum. 2 3/4" diam x 3/4" ht.

http://www.vistapro.com/Files/Pictures/wb-150.jpg

http://www.vistapro.com/Files/Specs/WB-150-spec.pdf

Geeze Louise this mount is so generic that everyone and their sister has it. I'm surprised at Vista as they usually have proprietary stuff of their own and don't usually play the me too game.

Anyone else notice that Cast took Vista's tried and true uplight and sent it to central America to have it knocked off in bronze. Or am I the only one sharp enough to detect that. You can't pull the wool over my eyes Cast. I'm on to you.