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JoeyD
12-29-2007, 12:06 PM
Has anyone installed one of these??

http://www.beverlyhillselectric.com/rabstl12v.html

Joey D.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Yes I have, once and have also installed the Nightscaping LV motion detector on another occasion. Both times against my better judgment and advice... the clients wanted to have their lights activated by motion.

I found both of the units to be very sensitive, almost hair trigger sensitive. In the end both units have been disabled because of all the wildlife we have around here (from squirrels to deer to moose to bears) setting them off at all hours.

That RAB unit looks a bit different then the one I installed, maybe it has been improved.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-29-2007, 05:23 PM
I just checked with RAB. That 12V version is only rated to switch 96 watts. I thought something was fishy when I clicked on that link Joey.

Here is the RAB link:

http://www.rabdesign.ca/PDFs/rdi_sellsheet_stl110.pdf

JoeyD
12-29-2007, 07:50 PM
The 96 watts is a turn off but I guess if you wanted to have 1 or 2 lights turn on it wouldnet be so bad. I think I will have to check one out.

Mike M
12-29-2007, 08:50 PM
More connections more stuff more problems.

LV lighting is for a portrait. I just told a prospect that asked about it to pop in a line voltage motion detecting light to flood everything as needed, they way it was meant to be, on a separate system.

I reminded them that the lv system is a great deterent anyways, as is.

What's the point in lv motion detecting? To have animals and thieves appreciate some cool uplighting, building accents, and reflections on ponds? Flood those predators full force!!!

JoeyD
12-29-2007, 10:08 PM
Some people want them for their backyards to deter coyotes, deer, and other animals without leaving their lights on all night. Overall I agree with you but it doesnt hurt to know whats out there for the right situation.

Mike M
12-30-2007, 08:18 AM
Sorry Joe, you're right, it's good to know what's out there.

pete scalia
12-30-2007, 03:08 PM
All these devices are great if they last.
The problem is that most of these things are made of what you might call "cheap offshore electronics".
Think of the economics of the situation.
None of these items are mainstream and are not sold a ton of.
The price must be palletable in order for it to sell.
The margins are relatively low
What choice is there to use cheap components to keep the cost down.
Cheap components don't last.
Herein lies the problem.

We as contractors are all cost conscious.
Price it too high and we won't buy it as we must mark it up and sell it to our customers and guarantee it to boot.
You read what the distributor said about being abandoned over a $1.50 difference in fixture price. I'm sure this is not uncommon yet we are all looking for a competitive advantage.
Give me a superior product for a better price then my competitor.
We will lie and deceive in order to get it.
Yeah Jimmy distributor I am the best in the biz. I will buy 200K this yr. Then like the man said the two bit liar is no where to be found when the shelves are full and the product is collecting dust.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
12-31-2007, 09:16 AM
We will lie and deceive in order to get it.


For the record, I think this line above speaks volumes.



Not all of us are willing to lie and deceive in order to gain advantage. Some of us still undestand and respect what INTEGRITY means and stands for.
Message for the day: Pick those whom you associate with, learn from, rely on and do business with very carefully.

Dreams To Designs
12-31-2007, 10:06 AM
I can see a use for LV motion. A long driveway that may look like a runway when lit all the time, but would benefit from lighting when folks are traveling on it, especially those unfamiliar or in bad weather. Perhaps an area rarely used, but would again be nice of lit when folks were venturing out that way. How about some additional lighting on a walkway that would appear over lit if lighted all the time, but makes it safer and more secure when there is activity.

Joey, I think the idea has great merit, but according to some observations needs some serious fine tuning or research. Perhaps something Unique sees a possible need for. I can think of many advantages for motion sensing lights from a design standpoint, but would need to see proven reliability.

Kirk

Lite4
12-31-2007, 10:37 AM
Kirk,
Those are some great points you make about the motion sensors. I have often considered using a MS device for some of the same reasons you mention in your post, however as stated by yourself and others, there just isn't any good hardware out there. I wish there was. I Don't know if I would incorporate one on every job, but there is definitely a use for them.

pete scalia
12-31-2007, 12:33 PM
I can see a use for LV motion. A long driveway that may look like a runway when lit all the time, but would benefit from lighting when folks are traveling on it, especially those unfamiliar or in bad weather. Perhaps an area rarely used, but would again be nice of lit when folks were venturing out that way. How about some additional lighting on a walkway that would appear over lit if lighted all the time, but makes it safer and more secure when there is activity.

Joey, I think the idea has great merit, but according to some observations needs some serious fine tuning or research. Perhaps something Unique sees a possible need for. I can think of many advantages for motion sensing lights from a design standpoint, but would need to see proven reliability.

Kirk

When in doubt about a product test it out on a safe house first yourself. Such tests could take a yr or more and still not be complete but it may give enough piece of mind to allow you to install it in more yards. All the messages including mine are not definitive on this unit in question. Somebody said they installed it and it wasn't successful. Hardly a reason to discard it over somebody's else's claim and it was only 1 unit they claimed to install and it didn't look like the picture posted (perhaps they improved it). The only way to know for sure is to buy 1 and test it yourself. If there were 20 guys posting here about failures and they were credible perhaps it's time to listen. Otherwise it's not fair to your self , your customer or the manufacturer to discard it on the word of someone who might have tested 1 and had a bad experience. It's almost as unfair as boycotting a manufacturer because they have the audacity to not join an association or make a donation to your favorite charity. In addition Who knows perhaps that person who tested it was a jug head and didn't know what he was doing or has some predisposed slant towards one particular brand which may cloud and bias her judgement of others. (said hypothetically of course)

Mike M
12-31-2007, 05:49 PM
If I was in Beverley Hills, I'd love to see a long drive with a motion sensor lv all along the drive, with only a 5 seconds "on" time, in front of the sensor. Then paths doing the same as you walk up to the entrance. That would look awesome. Thinks me. But maybe only for Steven Speilberg.

David Gretzmier
01-01-2008, 01:17 AM
I have mentioned the pathway affect for motion sensors in the past. Path lights that only light walks make sense to me. If the only purpose to light paths is for foot traffic, then only lighting them when folks actually use them would extend bulb life by a power of ten. since folks sometimes use paths also to show off plants, that may not always work.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-01-2008, 10:46 AM
I can only see a limited application for this technique and control. Generally walking paths through the landscape are much more then just conduits for foot traffic, they are also form the sight lines into the landscape. This is especially true on large lots that are rugged and forested.

Lighting the paths that cross the landscape and travel into it becomes necessary in order to create depth and views from the residence and outdoor living areas located near the buildings. Besides, I wouldn't really think 'flashing' lights would be that nice what with all the critters setting the detectors off.

Dreams To Designs
01-01-2008, 12:56 PM
James. I find most "professionally" lit landscapes are way over lit. The use of motion sensors allows enough light to provide safety and security, without taking away from the aesthetics. As with every technique, there is a time and a place for the best application. I would look at a well designed 12 volt motion sensor as another tool to facilitate the installation of a well thought out, lighting design.

Pete, thanks for the advice. I usually try to get the good, the bad and the ugly about any subject or product, than test and make my own decisions. I use a driveway sensor that has very few false alarms but rarely fails to signal a person or vehicle. So combining this technology with low voltage lighting is only some research and marketing away.

Maybe this has more to do with why we are lighting an area and for whom. If the area is on display from the road, it should be bright and on all the time, but if it is an area for a more intimate encounter, the light should reflect that. I like the idea of scene lighting, it gives the landscape a sense of theater, but still addresses safety and security.

Kirk

pete scalia
01-01-2008, 01:48 PM
James. I find most "professionally" lit landscapes are way over lit. The use of motion sensors allows enough light to provide safety and security, without taking away from the aesthetics. As with every technique, there is a time and a place for the best application. I would look at a well designed 12 volt motion sensor as another tool to facilitate the installation of a well thought out, lighting design.

Pete, thanks for the advice. I usually try to get the good, the bad and the ugly about any subject or product, than test and make my own decisions. I use a driveway sensor that has very few false alarms but rarely fails to signal a person or vehicle. So combining this technology with low voltage lighting is only some research and marketing away.

Maybe this has more to do with why we are lighting an area and for whom. If the area is on display from the road, it should be bright and on all the time, but if it is an area for a more intimate encounter, the light should reflect that. I like the idea of scene lighting, it gives the landscape a sense of theater, but still addresses safety and security.

Kirk

I have a tendency to agree with this. There are some alterior motives and special agendas being put forth in some of the posts on this bd. Everyone has their own opinion and some are really slanted towards favoring a particular brand or just the opposite against them. I have no hidden financial interest or anything to gain with my posts. My customer is the property owner. I'm not a distributor or a manufacturer. But you've got a few under the cloak of darkness who wear a couple a hats here and that's a different story altogether.