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Mike M
12-29-2007, 04:25 PM
Just wondering what each person's take is on MR bulb hours. Is it best to pay more for longest hour life? I am assuming everyone has service contracts.

I was thinking of three year increments, change in response to calls, change all after three years/clean/re-seal, and maybe clean/inspect once or twice per year also. This would probably be best with longest life bulbs?

Am I on the right track??

Pro-Scapes
12-29-2007, 05:00 PM
with the coastal areas your working i would assume salt spray will need to be cleaned semi frequently.

I service most clients at 3-4 month intervals. I change burn outs then. I switched from ultraline ushios to reg ushios and still looking to try out the osram titans but just have not gotten an order together.

From what i can tell and others have verified the reg ushios perform just as long if not longer than the ultralines. I had SEVERAL cast lamps fail early (within 6 mo of install) and also several ushio ultras fail premature as well. So far with reg ushios all is well but its much too soon for me to say for sure.

If you plan to warranty lamps for 3 years you better make sure you price it accordingly. I might be going to Chris's program and doing yearly relamps and save alot of headaches.

Lite4
12-29-2007, 05:32 PM
Mike,
I do yearly re-lamps and a cleaning/adjustment every 6 months. Ushio is a good bulb. I have had the best luck with the GE constant color. I just buy the 3-5k hour lamps since I am doing it every year whether they are burned out or not. I figuire they are close to being 'timed' out. I don't like going back to just change 1 bulb or 2 at a time. It just is not cost efficient for me.

Mike M
12-29-2007, 05:51 PM
This is good info, I hope others get a chance to voice their opinion on what works for them, given their market size, etc.

Pro-Scapes
12-29-2007, 06:37 PM
Mike,
I do yearly re-lamps and a cleaning/adjustment every 6 months. Ushio is a good bulb. I have had the best luck with the GE constant color. I just buy the 3-5k hour lamps since I am doing it every year whether they are burned out or not. I figuire they are close to being 'timed' out. I don't like going back to just change 1 bulb or 2 at a time. It just is not cost efficient for me.

does everyone agree to your yearly relamps ? what do you do with the clients who decline it and want it changed as needed.

JoeyD
12-29-2007, 06:55 PM
A yearly re lamp is definitly a safe bet but it can be overkill on some systems.
A good tip for those who like to relamp according to date or for those who just want to monitor burn out times is you can take a paint pen and date the lamp before installing it. We would have our guys date the lamp then initial it so we alwyas knew who initially installed the fixture or serviced it last.

Mike M
12-29-2007, 07:43 PM
Joey, that's a cool idea. Billy also told me to write the wattage on the lamp, so it's easier to read (brilliant idea, especially when doing demo's at night!!).

I wonder if anyone does 1.5, 2, or 3 year automatic replacement, with inspections, service calls, and per fixture replacements between??

I've read where some lighting guys use three-year flat fee service plans. One guy has first three free (built into original install). I wonder if it makes sense to use longest possible lamp hours for that model?

Lite4
12-29-2007, 10:26 PM
does everyone agree to your yearly relamps ? what do you do with the clients who decline it and want it changed as needed.

Billy,
If they elect to go without the service plan the bulbs are not warranteed and if I need to replace them it is a minimum of an hour service call. I figuire my drive time plus the bulb. When I tell them this they always opt for the service plan.
If they opt out of the plan altogether, then they are replacing their own bulbs and servicing their own system. They will call me in time for some tweeking I am sure.

NightScenes
12-30-2007, 12:01 AM
I've been using Ushio lamps for quite some time and really think it's better to use the regular lamps than the extended life "ultra" line.

pete scalia
12-30-2007, 01:21 PM
I've been using Ushio lamps for quite some time and really think it's better to use the regular lamps than the extended life "ultra" line.

What does ushio do to prevent the reflector from wearing off before the bulb burns out? Some of the bulbs made by some manufacturers last a very long time but they are worth a damn once the mirrors go south. GE , I find has the longest lasting mirrors.

David Gretzmier
01-01-2008, 12:27 AM
yearly relamps, yearly cleaning. ushio regulars. people that want the system on all night long get relamps every 6 months. warranty is for 1 year unless dusk to dawn.

Mike M
01-01-2008, 07:55 AM
Dave;

The service to clean lenses, seal, re-aim, trim plant material, etc., would be the same for all-night bulbs as 1/2 night.

Why don't you just charge them more and use the 10,000 hr on those? Be upfront and say all night not a prob, I would just have to charge a little more for the bulbs each time I service.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-01-2008, 09:55 AM
Mike. Do a search here on "Ushio Ultraline" and see what I have gone through with those lamps. Others are reporting poor lamp life with them too.

I have yet to hear back from Ushio regarding my problems with the Ultraline lamps... they have about 50 of them that I returned for analysis.

pete scalia
01-01-2008, 11:29 AM
I have little to no use at all for ushio bulbs. The 10 watter is one of the worst Mr-16's every produced. Great idea if it lasted more than 3 months inside a fixture. Probably better off going to home depot and use their cheap MR-16 offshores. At least you know what your getting and expect it not to last , the reflector flake off and the ceramic to seperate from the bulb.

irrig8r
01-01-2008, 04:35 PM
What does ushio do to prevent the reflector from wearing off before the bulb burns out? Some of the bulbs made by some manufacturers last a very long time but they are [not] worth a damn once the mirrors go south. GE , I find has the longest lasting mirrors.

I agree 100% after inserting the "not"...

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-01-2008, 06:18 PM
From what I understand, garnered from a variety of sources over the course of years.....

GE Constant Color MR16 Halogen Lamps make use of a dichroic manufacturing process that sees the reflector cast into the glass of the lamp. This protects the reflective material from the UV created by the lamp capsule. In so protecting the coating, it does not fade, flake or degrade like so many other MR16 lamps. Also, this allows for some interesting heat dissipation qualities. The GE lamps reflect 80% of the heat created out the back of the lamp and into the body of the fixture. (This is a very important feature when used in interior lighting - keeping the heat off the clients' and the objects being lit.)

Conversely, "Aluminized reflectors" are those lamps that have the aluminum reflective material applied to the inner surface of the lamp. Here it is bombarded by the UV and heat of the capsule and thus color shifts, fades and flakes away over time. The heat signature of these lamps is almost 100% forward through the lens of the fixture.

A simple way of telling between two lamps is to power them up outside of a fixture and look at the light coming backwards through the reflector and body of the lamp. A GE will allow virtually No light to travel through the reflector, the cheaper aluminized lamps will send all sorts of light backwards through the reflector...typically a pink or purple hue can be seen.

I have talked with Ushio reps. and they claim that their lamps are also dichroic but I have many examples here of Ushio's that have faded and flaking reflectors... which tells me that one company's 'dichroic process' is clearly not equal to another's.

For my money, GE invented the MR16 and perfected it. Sure they cost a bit more, but they really are worth it. It amazes me to return to some systems that were installed years ago, to find burned out GE lamps with completely clear and shiny optics still intact.

Have a great day.

pete scalia
01-01-2008, 07:28 PM
It's all in the mirrors. Always has been always will be when it comes to MR-16. MR-8 and 11 too for that matter

JoeyD
01-02-2008, 09:59 AM
Mike. Do a search here on "Ushio Ultraline" and see what I have gone through with those lamps. Others are reporting poor lamp life with them too.

I have yet to hear back from Ushio regarding my problems with the Ultraline lamps... they have about 50 of them that I returned for analysis.

James do you know who you sent these lamps to at Ushio? I did the same thing with about 25 burnt out Ultraline. I will follow up with my guy on the 50 you sent.

Thanks,

Joey D.

JoeyD
01-02-2008, 10:12 AM
I posted this in our AOLP forum a while back and I figure i will share it here as well.


Here is the response from the Ushio Tech Rep. Please read. Again Iw ill have pricing info ASAP.


Good Morning Joey....
This is a good question by your customer... and it brings out one of the significant quality differences between USHIO and the competition.

USHIO MR16 lamps have a TiO2 (Titanium Oxide) reflector coating, that is applied in a repeated multi-layer manufacturing process of coating application, baking on, and polishing. In total, there are about 7 process/production steps to the reflector coating process alone. The Titanium Oxide reflector coating is highly polished, high reflectivity, high heat resistance, which provides better resistance to the effects of the heating/cooling cycle, resulting in a reflector that resists cracking and flaking over the rated life of the lamp. IN the case of the Titan, that is up to 18,000 hours.

Another feature of the TITAN (and ULTRALINE 10,000 hour) lamps is that they all have a front lens as an integral part of the lamp package. USHIO understands the importance of the reflector integrity over the life of the lamp, and how reflector integrity affects light output, color consistency, and overall lamp performance. The front lens on all the ULTRALINE lamps acts to block moisture and other contaminants from condensing on the interior of the lamp, where the corrosive effects of that contamination could affect reflector performance. This is another way in which USHIO insures that the performance of the TITAN and ULTRALINE lamps will meet the rated specifications.

When Ultraline TITAN and 10,000 hour lamps are compared to competitor lamps which use an Aluminum Oxide compound for the reflector, our lamps will out last and outperform the competition every time. (We have a short marketing piece on his issue, I'll forward you a hard copy)
Your customer is smart to question this part of the lamps rated performance, as many competitor lamps have coatings that burn off as early as 1000 hours.

Bottom line: If any USHIO lamp ever exhibits a cracking or flaking reflector under normal lifetime use, we will warranty that lamp as non-conforming.

Best regards,


Clemens Saalfeld

Lite4
01-02-2008, 10:12 AM
James is right on the GEs. I have never had a problem with them. Great Lamp.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
01-02-2008, 05:18 PM
James do you know who you sent these lamps to at Ushio? I did the same thing with about 25 burnt out Ultraline. I will follow up with my guy on the 50 you sent.

Thanks,

Joey D.

I sent them back through my distributor at TC Lighting... I will follow up with him and see what he has heard.

That being said, the failure of the Ultralines was so quick, so broad and so expensive for me I will not be accepting much in the way of apologies or excuses from them. I am not going to guinea pig their 18,000 hour (claimed) lamps for them. I will stick with the GE line.

JoeyD
01-02-2008, 05:55 PM
I sent them back through my distributor at TC Lighting... I will follow up with him and see what he has heard.

That being said, the failure of the Ultralines was so quick, so broad and so expensive for me I will not be accepting much in the way of apologies or excuses from them. I am not going to guinea pig their 18,000 hour (claimed) lamps for them. I will stick with the GE line.

I hear ya. I felt like a much larger guinea pig with these Ultrline 10k and that is why I am sending the 18k hr lamps out to field test before I even think about selling one. The reason I am even looking at the 18k knowing now that it looks like the 10k hrs are having problems is because I have them sitting here. I might as well get them out there to see how they hold up.

For those who may be confused here, in the AOLP forum I offered free samples of the new 18k hr Ushio lamps for testing. I will also offer up to all of you here as well that if you want to help us do some field testing I would love to send out 5 of each wattage 18K hr MR16 Ushio lamps to you. Just let me know.

Joey D.