View Full Version : The doubles advantage
10-17-2001, 08:23 PM
On Tuesday I got my first chance at seeing how well doubles do in leaves. I am posting a couple of pics so you can see the difference yourself. The doubles are on a Toro 44" ZTR
10-17-2001, 08:24 PM
The second Pic
Craig Turf Management
10-17-2001, 08:31 PM
That's pretty! What kind of mower are you using? After all the hype I've heard about doubles on this site, I'm tempted to try it. Only problem is, I've got SCAG stuff, and I'm afraid that I'll break it. That's after hearing all the horror stories I've heard about SCAG equipment on this site.
Where in Charlotte are you from? I live in Pineville myself.
Take care, Bill Craig
10-17-2001, 08:38 PM
Bill, They are on a Toro 44" ZTR.
10-17-2001, 08:42 PM
Bill, I am out in Matthews. I used to live out in the Steele Creek area. Most of my customers are still out there.
10-17-2001, 08:43 PM
I have posted this before, but for new members, I have used doubles for many years and this is a couple of pictures I took last fall. You can see all the leaves on the right of the top picture and to the left is one time over the leaves with a 60" diesel Dixie Chopper with a Mulcher on top and a regular blade on the bottom.
Below is after a second time over this lawn.
10-17-2001, 08:50 PM
First year using doubles on leaves. Incredible. We cut a lawn with inch thick wet leaves, double cut, DUST. Never again use anything but doubles on leaves.
Be careful on the Scag electric clutch...I tried doubles loved them, however could tell I would be buying a new electric clutch ever month on the tiger...........And yes scag said ,VOID warranty if you run them....
10-17-2001, 10:33 PM
Why don't Mfg's give a buyer an option of a HAND clutch?
I did have to replace an electric clutch in my 332 John Deere about 14 years ago, but that was the last one. I've used hand clutch mowers since 1993. I did replace a $2.00 bushing in my old machine on the clutch pivot point that had worn a bit after 3600 hours. This has been my only problem in over 9,000 total hours of using hand clutches.
10-17-2001, 10:57 PM
I have a 52" Toro ZTR.
What combination of blades did you use?
Did you use a different (longer) bolt, washer between the blades, etc.?
10-17-2001, 11:07 PM
so how do you like getting covered in leaf dust with the massive blow-back from your toro-z?i've been runnin' the doubles all season on mine but i can't stand getting covered with crap all the time.it does do a great job on the leaves.it helps a lot if you run em over in reverse.i tried the one high lift one mucher but it was worse so i just left it double mulchers.i'm thinking of fabricating a windshield out of lexan to block the blow-back.
10-17-2001, 11:31 PM
Doubles with gators are great on leaves. I only run doubles on my w/b. I run gators with the ultravac, but no doubles. I'm careful with the electric clutch.
Eric how you hit it on the head a manual clutch option would cure a lot of my compliants about Scag...I ooved the double set up however no way could I afford to put on a new clutch every month....I have emailed scag about running doubles and the electric clutch problem...of course they respond with ...anything outside of factory set up voids the warranty...Eric maybe the Scag people should listen up ...MANUAL clutch option!
10-18-2001, 08:44 AM
Bruces: I use gators on top and straight or high lift on bottom. I use a washer between them to compensate for the cradle that holds the blades. I did not use a longer bolt because I felt the one on the machine was long enough. The only time I have had a problem with the blades changing position is when I hit something like a rock.
LJ Lawn: I have eliminated the blow back problem by mounting a plate underneath the deck. This is mounted so that it does not interfere with the blades. I do have to clean it off quite often especially when I am in wet grass. It works great. I will try to remember to take pics next time I change blades.
I have a Scag Tiger Cub. I've been using doubles on it pretty much since I got it. It works fine without any problems. I dont have as many hours as most of the guys like Eric but it still works fine. I just keep the spindles greased and the blades sharp. I run gators on top and Scag highlifts on bottom. I also have an MTD Pro belt drive 36" that I run doubles on too. So I have the two brands that the people on here love to hate. I run doubles on both of them and I have never had problem on either of them. Well on my Scag I did break a drive spring but that has nothing to do with running doubles. I just bought a mulch kit for the Scag and I will put it on this friday. I hope it does even better for me. I don't know if I've been blessed or what but I've had good LUCK with my machines. I guess I better go knock on alot of wood now. See ya;) ;)
10-20-2001, 06:41 AM
Nice work, is there a mulch kit on the Toro or is it side discharged?
I have basically the same setup on a Toro 44" walkbehind (gator and hi lift). My wife uses the Toro and 2 weeks ago I watched her and she did OK but the side discharge was not doing a great job. I was on a property where the people wanted leafs removed and she was chopping them with the Toro but windrowing things more for me to pick with the walker. I had about 100 bushels at that lawn that day. I had the mulch kit in the attic because I didn't like it for real wet grass and quite frankly I forgot I bought it . I got to thinking about it while searching here and I bolted it on.
I had even more leafs on the property this week but I had the mulch plate installed. UNBELIEVABLE. I should have taken pictures! I mulched them up and really could have left with out bagging but what I bagged resulted in only 3/4 of the Walkers hopper (9.5 bushels) being full. You learn more every day.;)
10-20-2001, 08:54 AM
MowEd, No mulch plate. I just side discharge. If I am in an open area I raise the discharge chute. I have a chain hooked to it so I can raise and lower it as needed. I do not have a problem with windrowing but if the grass is damp or wet it sometimes shoots out clumps.
10-20-2001, 09:09 AM
Attached is my configuration of the blades. EricElm has posted much about this before. He is the doubles guru. I think we all got the idea from him. It works great for me.
10-20-2001, 09:30 AM
Moe Ed in a thread that was lost you had a question if the 52" deck at turfquip would fit your 1998. The answer is yes.
My guess is these 52" decks were Toro closeouts since it looks like Toro will be going to eXmarks w/t-bars.
You really should buy a 52" to replace that 44". It is a much better overall piece of equipment.
Longer blades=more tip speed. If you can get a 44" into a certain area you can use a 52" in that area also.
10-20-2001, 07:39 PM
Thanks Lawrence. I will be looking into it a little more. I do need the increased productivity and I mainly use the 44" for wet lawns and rainy days until the boss started workin with me. Now its hers. I'm just wondering if the 15HP Kohler 1 lunger can take it.
Jeff it looks like your doin a good job without the plate, I didn't have such luck but we're a mulchin machine now.
Eng Mwr Guy
10-22-2001, 07:49 PM
Eric E wrote:
**Why don't Mfg's give a buyer an option of a HAND clutch?**
Because it isn't necessary IF the system is properly engineered. The doubles we are running have the clutch manufacturer's blessing. It was engineered in up-front. Most engineering problems can be can be traced back to the garbage in / out concept. If you don't give us good input for design it is highly unlikely you will get good output. Possible, but not likely.
Longer blades=higher BTS only if the sheaves/pulleys are kept constant.
10-22-2001, 08:03 PM
Does the new Gravely come with some type of mulch plate or discharge block??
I know its a good unit with plenty of power to do the job, just curious.
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