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Dreams To Designs
12-31-2007, 02:36 PM
This is a very good program and if you are within driving distance, one worth attending. The class is taught by the leader from Cast lighting so they use nothing but Cast equipment, but the class does explain all systems of lighting and especially hub systems.

This is an excerpt from Rutgers OCPE web site;

http://aesop.rutgers.edu/~ocpe/courses/current/al0501ca.html

"Taught by Dave Beausoleil of CAST Lighting, Inc., this one and half-day course will provide you with the vocabulary and mathematical calculations for installing electrical applications in the landscape, including amps, ohms and volts, as well as the creative design techniques for wires and wired systems. Even if you know everything or next to nothing about electricity, Dave will guide you through these lessons using his practical business experiences and hands-on lessons, where every participant will work with the “tools of the trade” to gain experience of his or her own."

Kirk

JoeyD
12-31-2007, 05:41 PM
Kirk, you could just get The Landscape Lighting Resource Manual and learn all of this strait from the horses mouth. No disrespect to Steve P. here, but I think what Dave B. teaches is just a Unique University Nate created with a fancy Rutgers name attached to it.

pete scalia
12-31-2007, 05:52 PM
Kirk, you could just get The Landscape Lighting Resource Manual and learn all of this strait from the horses mouth. No disrespect to Steve P. here, but I think what Dave B. teaches is just a Unique University Nate created with a fancy Rutgers name attached to it.

Joey are you saying that Dave B. is a horse thief?
He's gonna teach all that in a half day class huh?
Whatever.

indylights
12-31-2007, 06:27 PM
Ease up Joey. Noone said anything about you or Unique. Give the guy a break, all he was doing was telling guys there was a class in New Jersey if they wanted to attend. Believe it or not, not everything in the world is centered around you, Nate, and Unique. I'm not knocking your product at all,
just ease up dude. Cast isn't one of your enemies, all the other companies who have copied the molds for your fixtures and are trying to back door you are the ones you should be worrying about. And by the way, I have been to both a Unique and Cast class, and learned a lot at both. Different teachers have different methods of expressing the points they want to get across. There is nothing wrong with getting different resources for information.

pete scalia
12-31-2007, 07:50 PM
Ease up Joey. Noone said anything about you or Unique. Give the guy a break, all he was doing was telling guys there was a class in New Jersey if they wanted to attend. Believe it or not, not everything in the world is centered around you, Nate, and Unique. I'm not knocking your product at all,
just ease up dude. Cast isn't one of your enemies, all the other companies who have copied the molds for your fixtures and are trying to back door you are the ones you should be worrying about. And by the way, I have been to both a Unique and Cast class, and learned a lot at both. Different teachers have different methods of expressing the points they want to get across. There is nothing wrong with getting different resources for information.

I don't mean to speak for either Joey or Nate here and I don't know what the inner workings of the situation are. However this is what I've heard and you can correct me if I'm wrong

The owners of Cast were one time distributors and big time supporters of Unique lighting systems inc. They did seminars , promoted and sold their products. Were taught the hub system from the Illuminator Nate Mullen himself , voltage drop and design etc. All aspects of landscape lighting.
Apparently Cast went ahead and replicated the teachings , put some slight spin on the system by calling the components by different names etc. Went out and took some traditional existing fixtures made by various manufacturers and had them made in cast bronze by a third party and started what is now known as cast Lighting.
So if there seems to be a little animosity detected I can surely understand it. Again these are what my contacts from deep within the industry have told me and I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of their reports to me.
If you have any supporting info please put it here for all to see.

JoeyD
12-31-2007, 08:34 PM
Pete pretty much summed it up but understand one thing, CAST regardless of how they came about and the relationship that Dave had with Unique is a good company and I do not mean to take anything away from them especially Steve P. who is a class act. All I am saying is that I doubt Dave B. would be teaching at Rutgers if Nate Mullen hadn't educated him for years. The system they teach is virtually identical to ours and it is not by coincidence. Good side is it is a good system and I am sure they do some things differently. I know my place and belive me I know things do not center around myself or Unique but I do know the history here and Nate had alot to do with what CAST is teaching. But in reality I should not have responded to his thread, these are things I need to avoid.

Respectfully,
Joey D.

indylights
12-31-2007, 08:58 PM
Gentlemen,

Let me just say I intend no disrespect to anyone, but I just found Joey's tone in his initial response very condescending. As a lighting contractor who has been in the business for 7 years, I have used a wide range of product, but now use mainly Unique and Cast and like them both. I just get a little tired of constantly hearing how Nate was the original and therefore no one is allowed to have a different point of view on a similar subject, product, or idea. I hear it from the Unique reps, their distributors, on down the line. It just gets a little old. Should no one have improved on the Model T? Do you like the original desktop computer you bought 15 years ago? How about that 17 inch black and white TV with no remote? Nate should be applauded for all that he has brought to the industry, but there are other people just as qualified as him also involved now. And Pete, I know the history of Unique and Aquarius and I'm sure there is stuff there none of us know about (or need to know for that matter). Also,unless the Cast reps are lying to everybody, Dave B is actually part owner of the foundries where Cast fixtures are made, so I would not call that a "third party" manufacturer. Again, not intending to ruffle any feathers, just expressing a point of view.

JoeyD
12-31-2007, 09:09 PM
Point well taken Indy. I do agree with your views on industry progression, CAST has been a great addition to the lighting industry and I think Unique should be flattered to have companies who wish to teach a system like ours. There is plenty the public does not know but it frankly isnt important. Whats important is progressing the industry and I am all for it!

pete scalia
12-31-2007, 09:25 PM
Point well taken Indy. I do agree with your views on industry progression, CAST has been a great addition to the lighting industry and I think Unique should be flattered to have companies who wish to teach a system like ours. There is plenty the public does not know but it frankly isnt important. Whats important is progressing the industry and I am all for it!

Me I'm not so forgiving. If it were me whose act was ripped off I'd want to put them out of business plain and simple. But that's me and my highly competitive nature.

indylights
12-31-2007, 10:19 PM
Pete,

Just one question for you. Judging by your last statement, do you feel every original invention of everything should never be duplicated, improved upon, modified, etc (and I'm not talking about just landscape lighting anymore)? Whatever happened to imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as Joey slyly complimented Unique on in his last comment? Should an original idea never be improved upon or duplicated in any way, ever? That is pretty short sighted. We have patent laws in the United States, and if those are not violated, anything is fair game. It's called capitalism, and if you are so competitive, you should understand that.

pete scalia
12-31-2007, 10:48 PM
Pete,

Just one question for you. Judging by your last statement, do you feel every original invention of everything should never be duplicated, improved upon, modified, etc (and I'm not talking about just landscape lighting anymore)? Whatever happened to imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, as Joey slyly complimented Unique on in his last comment? Should an original idea never be improved upon or duplicated in any way, ever? That is pretty short sighted. We have patent laws in the United States, and if those are not violated, anything is fair game. It's called capitalism, and if you are so competitive, you should understand that.

I know Indy. I'm just typing crazy sometimes that's all. Take about 65% of what I say seriously. The other 35% is nonsense. :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
Some may say the 65 to 35 the other way but don't believe them for a second.

Dreams To Designs
01-01-2008, 12:23 PM
Joey, I have read many books and even tried to get a copy of Nate's manual from you, but I was too slow. Nothing can replace good knowledgeable instruction, as hands on doesn't allow too much interpretation. This is the only class that Dave teaches as CAST has their own crew of instructors, but if Dave is following instruction from Nate, I applaud Nate as well. I have attended this program and found it to be most stimulating and I would think that this year's program will be even better. And thank you for the Rutgers recognition, we try very hard to put a fancy spin on professional landscape education at Rutgers. Perhaps Unique can also offer a university level short course program that can be incorporated into the Rutgers professional courses in the future. Once you remove the sales aspect from a lighting clinic, the remaining design & technical information needs to carry the audience. Your comments, input and participation are always welcome, whether in agreement or not.

Pete, the class is 1 1/2 days. Lot of information and a hands on portion often take the class to 2 full days. I hope we all take information and knowledge gained from others and make better use of it.

Indy, thanks for stepping up there. As you said, just sharing an opportunity for education. I will likely do the same when a Unique class is offered by one of my suppliers. Lot's of people out there need the basics and some hands on time before they consider if lighting is a good addition to their services.

Kirk

JoeyD
01-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Kirk you are a true gentleman. Happy New Year and keep an eye out for one of those books!!!

steveparrott
01-01-2008, 05:28 PM
I guess I should chime in and comment from the CAST side of this discussion. (I hope this post won't be deleted since we should be able to respond to the claims in this thread.)

I joined CAST in January 2002. At that time it was just me and Dave with one distributor. I had never worked with an individual so passionate about the betterment of his industry and so ethical in how he grew his business. These two qualities have been the guiding principles behind the growth of CAST to the point where, only 6 years later, we are a major force in all 50 states and several other countries with hundreds of quality distributors.

Dave has been teaching at Rutgers for the past 13 years and each year the course evolves to include the latest in technological developments and design techniques. This new information also continues to improve our hands-on seminars and advanced courses offered across the country. We also contribute technical and design articles to many of the green industry journals and are frequently interviewed by the press as authorities in landscape lighting.

There are many other features that distinguish CAST from other manufacturers such as the use of solid bronze and marine-grade wire, our ongoing product improvements, our support of brick-and-morter distributors and our extensive hands-on in-field and marketing support.

While we acknowledge the contributions of Unique and Nightscaping who were innovators in the early years of landscape lighting, CAST is a dynamic and evolving company with a steady vision to better the industry and bring greater success to those who pursue professional landscape lighting.

Chris J
01-01-2008, 10:59 PM
I guess I should chime in and comment from the CAST side of this discussion. (I hope this post won't be deleted since we should be able to respond to the claims in this thread.)

I joined CAST in January 2002. At that time it was just me and Dave with one distributor. I had never worked with an individual so passionate about the betterment of his industry and so ethical in how he grew his business. These two qualities have been the guiding principles behind the growth of CAST to the point where, only 6 years later, we are a major force in all 50 states and several other countries with hundreds of quality distributors.

Dave has been teaching at Rutgers for the past 13 years and each year the course evolves to include the latest in technological developments and design techniques. This new information also continues to improve our hands-on seminars and advanced courses offered across the country. We also contribute technical and design articles to many of the green industry journals and are frequently interviewed by the press as authorities in landscape lighting.

There are many other features that distinguish CAST from other manufacturers such as the use of solid bronze and marine-grade wire, our ongoing product improvements, our support of brick-and-morter distributors and our extensive hands-on in-field and marketing support.

While we acknowledge the contributions of Unique and Nightscaping who were innovators in the early years of landscape lighting, CAST is a dynamic and evolving company with a steady vision to better the industry and bring greater success to those who pursue professional landscape lighting.

When you say it was just you and Dave, does that mean that you two started the company? If not, who were the founders of Cast, and who are now the officers and representatives. I've tried to contact Cast in the past, but no return call was provided.

Go Halogen
01-30-2008, 11:51 PM
Is this a certification course approved by Rutgers? or just a class held on campus? What is the fee? I rarely need to pay for courses like this. CAST seems to be the only seminar that charges. I sat through a CAST seminar last year at the MAHTS show. I think it was called "Brain Washing 101". They push everything so dramatically and try to make you feel like you will cheat your customer if you use anything else.

Kirk, have you ever attended a Unique or Vista Lighting Seminar?

-Andy

ChampionLS
01-31-2008, 12:56 AM
The man with the golden goose makes the rules.

Dreams To Designs
01-31-2008, 11:39 AM
Andy, I have attended a Unique seminar, but the intended instructor was sick that day and was replaced by someone from the hosting dealer. I'm sure I did not get the best information that day. I have also attended a Vista seminar, very long ago, but hope to attend an advanced seminar this spring.

The reason for this post was to make those unaware of the Rutgers professional landscape short course program, aware. The lighting class was the first program offered for 2008. It's a good program that definitely promotes quality installation and the use of Cast Lighting products and their preferred techniques.

I would actually like to develop a generic lighting design class that can be taught either at the Rutgers program or independently with the assistance of one or more lighting manufacturers.

Kirk

Go Halogen
01-31-2008, 04:38 PM
Kirk, you should get in touch with your local Vista rep. I have a really helpful rep in my area. He may be yours as well? I have known him for a long time. Tony Italia. His seminars are very generic and I know for a fact that he does push Vista as the golden chalice.

I can get you his info if you would like.

Thanks for the reply.

-Andy

Go Halogen
01-31-2008, 04:41 PM
Sorry, meant to say that Tony "does not" push Vista as the gloden chalice.
He is very neutral and does good general topic seminars.

-Andy

Dreams To Designs
01-31-2008, 06:38 PM
Andy,

Funny thing you should mention Vista. Tony was here today and he and his product are definitely worth more investigation. They have some things in the line I will definitely give a try. His information is right on, and as you said, he is very generic with that information. I plan on attending one of his seminars, if I can fit it in with all the other projects I have going on.

He also told me about you, and that's a good thing. Perhaps we will have the opportunity to discuss ideas in person.

Kirk

Go Halogen
02-01-2008, 07:30 PM
Kirk,

That is crazy. I spoke to him last night and he told me the same thing.
He was a student of mine. I like to think that I got him into the landscaping industry.......I hope that was a good thing for him!?!? He has a big area to cover now......Poor guy.

Anyway, he said a lot of good things about you. You were described as an individual that has a passion for what you do. Excellent!

Vista has some really good fixtures. I use several models regularly.

Thanks for the relpy.

-Andy

jbailey52
02-07-2008, 05:54 PM
Ill tell ya.. just the vibe of negativity I get from Joey D makes me not want to use Unique at all. I have been using Cast lately, and whenever I need a technical spec answered, Steve P has always responded, I even called the tech. hotline one day, and believe it was him who answered. I just get a lot of professionalism from the bunch at cast. (Although I am going through an ordering error which is messing with one of my jobs right now)

JoeyD
02-07-2008, 07:14 PM
Sorry J. Sometimes typing comes across much harsher than what my true tone is. People that know me know I am not a brash person but rather pretty laid back. I am rather pasionate here but in no way want my posting to turn you off. I am sorry you feel that way. Earlier in this thread I was worng in my comments and have since learned much more about the Rutgers class and feel much differently abut it.


Respectfully,

Joey D.

jbailey52
02-07-2008, 07:19 PM
I dont think that is even the point. I believe the reason I am turned off by your company as a whole is just the fact you would be so opinionated in a derogatory way , in a public forum while being a representative of your company. I just think it is abrasive. I mean I think its great when a business owner stands up for something, but how you talked seems so petty. I guess what I am saying is I am used to owners being very PC.. and even though I believe everyone should have their opinions, sometimes its better to suck it up and not say anything.. Especially when representing a company... ha if you weren't the exec.. I believe you would be fired.

JoeyD
02-07-2008, 07:34 PM
Well I am not the owner, and I do sometimes feel like I should just not say anything at all. In a lot of ways I agree with you and feel that I am too opinionated at times.

It is funny that you have mentioned this because yesterday I started to feel like my participation has become more detrimental than useful. I feel like I am easily sucked into petty disagreements at times and should just let it go and let some feel and do as they please. Sometimes my point is never heard becuase of the way it is conveyed. I was thinking that maybe I should just pull back, stay on my sposor forum and not do so much chiming in in the regular lighting forum. Guys that have questions for Unique always know where to find me anyway.

My defense mechanisim is such to voice our opinion in a way that we would normally do if out on the job, and that is without much BS and I guess some may view that as not being very "pc". Anyway, you have an opinon and the fact that you are man enough to put it out and express to me how you feel makes me have nothing but respect for you.

Again i apologize for turning you off to Unique, but respect your decision likewise.

Regards,

Joey D.

steveparrott
02-08-2008, 07:05 AM
I was thinking that maybe I should just pull back, stay on my sposor forum and not do so much chiming in in the regular lighting forum.

Joey, this is why I decided not to be a sponsor here - instead of being in a position where you can contribute freely (when you want); you're often put in a position of defending yourself against (often petty and false) comments.

pete scalia
02-08-2008, 08:11 AM
Joey, this is why I decided not to be a sponsor here - instead of being in a position where you can contribute freely (when you want); you're often put in a position of defending yourself against (often petty and false) comments.

Why be a sponsor when you can promote your brand free like you do on a regular basis. At least Unique pays sponsorship fees for the privelege. Why don't you try using shills like so many others do. They seem to steer clear of the firing line.

JoeyD
02-08-2008, 10:44 AM
Joey, this is why I decided not to be a sponsor here - instead of being in a position where you can contribute freely (when you want); you're often put in a position of defending yourself against (often petty and false) comments.

Yeah, I plan on still sponsoring and participating just not on the level I have been. I am coming into a real busy time of year anyway both buisness and personally so my weekends and evenings will begin to be filled so I will have less time anyway. I am just going to scale back.