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cook
10-18-2001, 01:22 PM
Hi, i hope someone can give me some advice here. I have a Toro 325d. the last 10-15 times i used it it was very hard to start-had to crank and crank. last time it would not start at all. i have replaced both fuel filters, fuel pump is pumping, electrical seems ok(fuel cut out works), fuel injectors have been checked(i was told they are a little weak but should be ok), i had fuel injector pump rebuilt, i was told compression was"pretty good in 2 cyl. and a little weak in 1"..... i was told the only thing they could do was to replace engine because this engine couldnt really be rebuilt or wasnt worth the trouble. other than this engine problem it is still a good mower.......what do you think?

Robert Doubrava
10-18-2001, 06:15 PM
what kind of engine is on it? if its a briggs, then i can help. (i work on briggs engines) if its something else, ill try to help.

cook
10-18-2001, 06:21 PM
i'm not sure about the engine.. the only markings i can see are on top of engine.......K3D 96628 ...the alternator is a mitsubishi. all i know for sure is its a 3 cyl diesel.

Robert Doubrava
10-18-2001, 06:24 PM
i dont know anything about diesel engines, just gasoline. sorry, man! im sure someone else can help you out. the "K" on the engine may mean its a kohler. im not familiar with kohlers, though. im just guessing at the model. ill try to look it up on the kohler website.

khouse
10-19-2001, 11:51 AM
What was the temperature on the day it wouldn't start? When you did get it to start did it run fine otherwise? Was it hard to start before or after you had the injector pump rebuilt? Was the cold start system ever checked (glow plugs)? Does it fire right up with a shot of starting fluid? Does it crank over fast or is it sluggish? What is the compression readings? I need to know all this to make a judgment on where to look.
Kenny

cook
10-19-2001, 06:59 PM
sorry i wasnt very clear. it will not start at all now! all of the stuff that we did was after it would not start at all! it still wont start even with starter fluid! before it quit completely it was hard to start but ran fine after starting. i dont know the compression readings but i will try to find out monday. the glow plugs glow but i dont know if they can still be bad? it cranks about as fast as always! hope you can help!

khouse
10-20-2001, 02:19 AM
Since it was hard to start before you tried all the repairs then that helps me. What puzzles me is that starting fluid won't make it pop. Or does it pop a few times but doesn't run? If it pops with starting fluid then I would suspect low compression and/or injectors. Can you take out the injectors turn them over where they are not in the engine and reconnect the lines? Then crank the engine over and look at the injector spray pattern?
The only thing I can think of if you get no pops when spraying fluid is the valve timing is off due to a bad cog belt/chain or gear. This is rare with the chains and gears. But I don't know what engine you have, so it's just a guess. We will know more when the compression test is ran.

cook
10-20-2001, 12:53 PM
starting fluid does nothing. are timing gear / chains hard to check?

khouse
10-21-2001, 09:24 PM
By getting nothing at all with starting fluid then you have a major compression problem. Even if you have a compression release, starting fluid will still make it pop a few times. Also if the head gasket was bad the chances are that at least one cylinder would fire. I think your valve timing is off - probably caused by a bad timing belt or chain or gears. I don't know what engine you have but I would bet it has a timing belt. If it has a timing belt then there will be a plastic belt cover or a thin formed metal cover on the front of the engine. If there is an aluminum cover on the front then it has gears and/or chain drive. If the cover is plastic then remove it and check out the belt. If it has a cast metal cover then have a mechanic check it out. This is the best I can do without checking it out personally. Let me know what you find out.

captdevo
10-21-2001, 10:21 PM
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captdevo
10-21-2001, 10:22 PM
air filter restricted?

are you getting good air flow?

If so, pull the glow plugs and squirt a shot of 30w in each cylinder, if it fires off, you've got bad compression.

If so, pop off the head and see if it's a gasket problem, or scored cylinders.


From what you say, it probably has a broken ring or scored cylinders from running lean due to lack of air or fuel.

The next step will be to determine which......

Dave

sdwally
10-22-2001, 10:07 AM
DO NOT USE STARTING FLUID IN THIS ENGINE! It has glow plugs! Starting fluid and glow plugs make for possible explosions! Have you checked the glow plug circut? You can test for power at any wire connection on the glow plug for power. If you have power, then you have to pull each glow plug and test separately. Just connect to a 12v power source and the tips should turn cherry red(hot) within a minute. If not you have a bad glow plugs.
What was the compression readings of each cylinder? You might also check valve lash before checking compression. Compression should be well over 200 psi.

justractors
10-22-2001, 05:06 PM
The engine you have is a Mitsubishi.
These engines need to have a valve adjustment done every 200 to 250 hours. If not you will burn the valves which is exactly what this appears to be.
Without firm numbers as far as compression is concerned there is not much that can be done by mail.
The compression in this engine runs about 285 to 340 pounds per square inch and not the 100 to 150 that most gasoline engines require to run..
Please go to the Toro.com website and you will find a great deal of information about this engine, the tractor unit, deck, and all Toro products.
If you have the five digit model and the serial number you will be able to get a complete parts breakdown on their site.
Toro is the only company that I know of that offers this service.
You should definitely follow the advice of the poster who said not to use starting fluid in this engine or in almost all diesels. You may get by with it 100 times and then cause damage to your engine and injury to yourself and others on the 101st try.
Good luck,
Bill

khouse
10-26-2001, 01:21 AM
The main reason I asked if it poped any with starting fluid is because I wanted to see if you had a fuel delivery problem. You had said it was dead anyway and this is a fast way to check. Like others have stated above - it's not good practice to shoot fluid in your engine. Only in extream cases and by all means don't let the glow plugs have time to heat up before you start cranking.
Kenny

David Haggerty
10-28-2001, 07:57 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cook
[Bi was told the only thing they could do was to replace engine because this engine couldnt really be rebuilt or wasnt worth the trouble.

Who told you this? everything checks out, yet he wants to replace the engine. How many hours you got on that mower?

The shop foreman at Century Equpment in Cincinnati said I could expect 7,000 hours before any internal work might be needed.

I'm no diesel mechanic, but I own and operate two of these 325-D's. The only other thing I could think of would be the fuel cut off. These have a rubber cap on them so the solenoid can be pushed in manually. If that little rubber cap is missing or torn, it could get rust or crud in there and not open fully. I had to clean one of mine, and put a little anti-sieze on it.

Good luck.

Dave